29 Sep
2011
29 Sep
'11
6:38 a.m.
Hi,
Our 3100 is dying. Thinking of running SIMH. Big stumbling block is
how to move the OS and files. I've used Kermit when I've done this for
RT11, but that seems like torture for 8 Gb on two disks. Can't I just
stick in a SCSI controller and use something like ODS2 to read the SCSI
drive and put them into the new container? Thinking of using (probably)
XP or Windows7.
Am I missing something here?
And, if I read it correctly, the only device that talks to the outside
world is the ethernet connection in SIMH-vax. Well, that will take care
of pretty much everything, I guesss, since we only have printers and
terminals, and I can switch over to PCs with VT100 software.
Anybody been through this already and have some pointers?
thanks in advance
Joe Heck
29 Sep
29 Sep
9:47 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of joe heck
Sent: 29 September 2011 14:38
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Migration from VAX 3100 to SIMH questions and looking for ideas
Hi,
Our 3100 is dying. Thinking of running SIMH. Big stumbling block is how
to
move the OS and files. I've used Kermit when
I've done this for RT11, but
that seems like torture for 8 Gb on two disks. Can't I just stick in a
SCSI
controller and use something like ODS2 to read the
SCSI drive and put them
into the new container? Thinking of using (probably) XP or Windows7.
Am I missing something here?
And, if I read it correctly, the only device that talks to the outside
world is
the ethernet connection in SIMH-vax. Well, that will
take care of pretty
much everything, I guesss, since we only have printers and terminals, and
I
can switch over to PCs with VT100 software.
Anybody been through this already and have some pointers?
thanks in advance
Joe Heck
Hmmm... SIMH does not support SCSI disks and so I *think* you can't have 4GB
virtual disks in SIMH. Also SIMH only emulates the 3900 and the 780, so
other hardware that the OS expects may not be there either. Depending on
what is wrong with your 3100, an easy way to get files across is to get SIMH
running and use DECnet to transfer files, perhaps by creating a backup
saveset and transferring that to SIMH and restoring from the backup saveset.
One other thing you might consider is booting the 3100 off the network so
you can create an image backup of the whole OS disk which you can then
transfer over DECnet and restore on SIMH, but I think that may have disk
size problems, and perhaps problems with mismatched hardware if you try to
copy the OS.
As this seems to be a commercial situation, perhaps Charon VAX is an option,
that may support more stuff than SIMH (I have never used it so I don't know
at all, just speculating).
Regards
Rob
11:06 a.m.
b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
I think you have to compile with the large file options, but I did
sim> set rqb enabled
sim> set rqb0 rauser=8192
sim> attach rqb0 test.dsk
RQB: creating new file
sim> b cpu
...
$ initialize dub0
$ show dev dub0/ful
Disk VAXTOY$DUB0:, device type RA82, is online, file-oriented device, shareable,
available to cluster, error logging is enabled.
Error count 0 Operations completed 129
Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM]
Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W
Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512
Total blocks 16007168 Sectors per track 57
Total cylinders 18722 Tracks per cylinder 15
$
and it works ok, so 4G should be ok.
Brian
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of joe heck
Sent: 29 September 2011 14:38
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Migration from VAX 3100 to SIMH questions and looking for ideas
Hi,
Our 3100 is dying. Thinking of running SIMH. Big stumbling block is how
to
move the OS and files. I've used Kermit when
I've done this for RT11, but
that seems like torture for 8 Gb on two disks. Can't I just stick in a
SCSI
controller and use something like ODS2 to read
the SCSI drive and put them
into the new container? Thinking of using (probably) XP or Windows7.
Am I missing something here?
And, if I read it correctly, the only device that talks to the outside
world is
the ethernet connection in SIMH-vax. Well, that
will take care of pretty
much everything, I guesss, since we only have printers and terminals, and
I
can switch over to PCs with VT100 software.
Anybody been through this already and have some pointers?
thanks in advance
Joe Heck
Hmmm... SIMH does not support SCSI disks and so I *think* you can't have 4GB
virtual disks in SIMH. 
1:13 p.m.
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before Brian's mailer's
reply quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt
wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2 p.m.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before Brian's mailer's reply
quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
So many windows, so little time. :) (hears Dave yell "FOCUS!" in the
background)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
2:24 p.m.
On 09/29/2011 05:00 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
ROFL!!
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before Brian's mailer's
reply quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
So many windows, so little time. :) (hears Dave yell "FOCUS!" in the
background)
5:36 p.m.
Thanks for all the ideas, folks. Yes, I've looked into Charon and the
cost would probably bankrupt the company. At least that's how I read
their price list. Yes, it's the right way to go, but...
I suppose the company could take the COBOL code and move it to a real PC
environment as well...get away from VMS entirely.
Since at least one person suggested staying with the real hardware,
perhaps that is the best bet. I'm not even happy about upgrading the
OS, since I really don't want to get the license manager into a fit.
The hardware seems pretty stable, except for the disks. I had asked
about disks a while back and got many excellent responses. However, I
went with one which was to buy the new "cheetah"? drive, very big, and
unfortunately, 5.5-2 won't support it, along with the firmware. My bad,
I forget to say the system is running antiquated software. So, it's
back to the 4GB drives. Went with a used drive from a reputable vender,
and things are stable for now.
You've given me many good options to think about, so now I have to make
a recommendation to my friend/client. Just when I was about to retire
and get out of the business...
Thanks again,
Joe Heck
6:08 p.m.
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 14:00 -0700, Gene Buckle wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
well, to be fair, focus was the problem: I was in the wrong window when
I was typing into simh :)
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before Brian's mailer's reply
quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
So many windows, so little time. :) (hears Dave yell "FOCUS!" in the
background)
g.
7:44 p.m.
On 09/29/2011 09:08 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
well, to be fair, focus was the problem: I was in the wrong window when
I was typing into simh :)
Yes, I figured as much. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before
Brian's mailer's reply
quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
So many windows, so little time. :) (hears Dave yell "FOCUS!" in the
background)
g.
30 Sep
30 Sep
6:32 a.m.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Brian Wheeler wrote:
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 14:00 -0700, Gene Buckle wrote:
I figured it was either that or a console terminal window. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
well, to be fair, focus was the problem: I was in the wrong window when
I was typing into simh :)
Ok, did anyone else spot the little typo just before Brian's mailer's reply
quote? ;) *snicker*
-Dave
On 09/29/2011 02:06 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
> b duaOn Thu, 2011-09-29 at 17:47 +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
So many windows, so little time. :) (hears Dave yell "FOCUS!" in the
background)
g.
29 Sep
29 Sep
11:23 a.m.
From: joe heck
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:38 AM
Our 3100 is dying. Thinking of running SIMH.
I'm not going to address any further points than this.
SimH is a toy. There is nothing wrong with toys, and it is a spectacular
example of good toy design and implementation.
You, on the other hand, seem to be in a commercial situation, with all the
needs for support that entails. You really want to move to CharonVAX, a
commercial program with a support organization and a network of resellers.
The company provides a personal license for hobbyists which allows limited
subset of configurations, which would allow you to test it before making a
decision.
Note that I have no relationship with the Charon* people. I'm wearing my
professional systems programmer/administrator hat here, giving you my
professional opinion. (Had we a contract for my opinion, you would pay a
substantial, though competitive, amount for it. You're getting it gratis.)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
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11 comments
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participants (7)
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bdwheele＠indiana.edu -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu