24 Feb
2011
24 Feb
'11
11:02 p.m.
Starts at 41:35 here:
http://www.awakemedia.com/DrFuture/DrF37_Feb222011_TedNel.mp3
25 Feb
25 Feb
1:34 p.m.
In article <4D6729D9.3000407 at snarc.net>,
Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> writes:
Starts at 41:35 here:
http://www.awakemedia.com/DrFuture/DrF37_Feb222011_TedNel.mp3
Transcript summary: I invented everything and I awesome?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
6:52 p.m.
Starts at
41:35 here: http://www.awakemedia.com/DrFuture/DrF37_Feb222011_TedNel.mp3
Transcript summary: I invented everything and I awesome? 
26 Feb
26 Feb
11:19 a.m.
Starts at
41:35 here: http://www.awakemedia.com/DrFuture/DrF37_Feb222011_TedNel.mp3
Transcript summary: I invented everything and I awesome? 
2:25 p.m.
Tony wrote:
Actually, I've neer heard of him.
He invented hypertext in 1963. (Or at least hypertext in a recognizable
"modern" form; Vannevar Bush arguably may have invented hypertext in
1945.) Although Nelson built a hypertext system in the 1960s (as did
Doug Engelbart), and various other small-scale systems were built over
the next few decades, it generally took the world until the 1990s to
catch up. Nelson would claim that we actually still haven't caught up,
because HTML has many serious deficiencies compared to what he invented.
Nelson is also famous for writing _Computer Lib/Dream Machines_.
6:36 p.m.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Eric Smith wrote:
He invented hypertext in 1963. (Or at least hypertext
in a recognizable
"modern" form; Vannevar Bush arguably may have invented hypertext in
1945.)
Ted explicitly gave credit to Vannevar Bush.
(Vannevar Bush did NOT give credit to those whose work HE built on
(Emmanual Godberg, etc.))
Bush never built a Memex to the full specs that he described, but
people still argue over whether "As We May Think" was a future vision or
describing his existing work. Even the flash tubes were not
yet commercially available that could do what Bush claimed.
Although Nelson built a hypertext system in the 1960s
(as did
Doug Engelbart), and various other small-scale systems were built over
the next few decades, it generally took the world until the 1990s to
catch up. Nelson would claim that we actually still haven't caught up,
because HTML has many serious deficiencies compared to what he invented.
I think that HTML was an ESSENTIAL, needed, intermediate step. Without
it, or its equivalent, we would still be enjoying gopher-space.
Some great programmers, such as Roger Gregory, worked on Xanadu. I think
that we have many decades before the world can catch up to Ted's "vision".
(or even if it SHOULD).
Nelson is also famous for writing _Computer Lib/Dream
Machines_.
I can't find the VHS tape of his pilot for a Silicon Valley soap
opera.
But, "Hyperland" IS on the web!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3:27 p.m.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Tony Duell wrote:
Actually, I've neer heard of him. This is my
fault, of course, but could
somebofy enlighten me as to what he was involved with.
He developed the concept and term of "hypertext".
He wrote extensively (his writing style is a bit hard to follow), and
headed project "Xanadu". A small subset of which became www. (He
considers www to be grossly inadequate compared to his grandiose plans)
Find (or download (Google)) "Hyperland". It was a BBC special in 1991
(before www), with Ted Nelson, Douglas Adams, and Tom Baker (Dr. Who). It
is an amazing and entertaining prediction of what the internet would
become.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5:40 p.m.
Starts at
41:35 here: http://www.awakemedia.com/DrFuture/DrF37_Feb222011_TedNel.mp3
Transcript summary: I invented everything and I awesome?
6:22 p.m.
> Actually, I've neer heard of him. This is my
fault, of course, but
> could somebofy enlighten me as to what he was involved with.
On Sat, 26 Feb
2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:
I don't understand, Tony. I mean, you spent the
past several years
trying to convince us all that you * everything *. :)
(Sorry, couldn't help myself. Let's please try to keep this thread
about Ted Nelson.)
As far as I know, Ted never designed any HARDWARE.
That could be why Tony ne'er heard of him.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
27 Feb
27 Feb
12:34 p.m.
I don't understand, Tony. I mean, you spent the
past several years
trying to convince us all that you * everything *. :)
I beg your pardon...
I have repeatedly said that I am not an expert on _anything_. And that
there are many, many, things that I do not know, and cannot do. And I
sill stick to that
BTW, thanks to everyone who enlightened me as to what Ted Nelson did.
-tony
28 Feb
28 Feb
2:42 p.m.
In article <4D6840D4.8010002 at snarc.net>,
Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> writes:
Granted, he came off as a bit arrogant. But he's
still an important
figure in computer history, and he should be respected by us.
Importance aside, people earn respect, they don't get to demand it. I
don't care how damned important you are if you're an ass.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:54 p.m.
Granted, he
came off as a bit arrogant. But he's still an important figure in computer history,
and he should be respected by us.
Importance aside, people earn respect, they
don't get to demand it. I don't care how damned important you are if you're
an ass.
3:01 p.m.
In article <4D6BFD64.3070107 at snarc.net>,
Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> writes:
>> Granted, he came off as a bit arrogant. But he's still an important figur
e in computer history, and he should be respected by us.
> Importance aside, people earn respect, they
don't get to demand it. I don'
t care how damned important you are if
you're an ass.
That's ridiculous.
Not really. I'm not requried to respect anyone just because they're
an important ass.
As I say, respect is earned from the person who gives it. Noone gets
to demand respect, regardless of their accomplishments. You may
decide to give your respect to an ass, but that is still your choice,
not a result of the demand from the ass.
There are many people in the history of the world
and the history of tech whose work I respect even if they're jerks.
That's your choice.
Won't get very far in life if you only deal with
the "nice" people.
Non sequitor. There's not requirement that I respect everyone that I
have to deal with. There are people I deal with routinely and
producctively but I still don't respect them.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:26 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
On 02/28/2011 03:01 PM, Richard wrote:
You have to separate the work from the person. There are many people
whose WORK I respect but who I have no respect for as a person.
Take one of my cardiac surgeons, for example.
Barry
There are many
people in the history of the world
and the history of tech whose work I respect even if they're jerks.
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3:08 p.m.
Tell that to Charlie Sheen! ;)
________________________________
From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com>
To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 1:42:18 PM
Subject: Re: Ted Nelson interview
In article <4D6840D4.8010002 at snarc.net>,
Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> writes:
Granted, he came off as a bit arrogant. But he's
still an important
figure in computer history, and he should be respected by us.
Importance aside, people earn respect, they don't get to demand it. I
don't care how damned important you are if you're an ass.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
4:32 p.m.
> Granted, he came off as a bit arrogant. But
he's still an important
> figure in computer history, and he should be respected by us.
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Richard wrote:
Importance aside, people earn respect, they don't
get to demand it. I
don't care how damned important you are if you're an ass.
It is possible to respect or be impressed by the WORK or ACCOMPLISHMENTS,
without needing to like or respect the person.
Many of the greatest geniuses are asses.
Yes, Ted has a large ego. But, once you get him to talk about something
other than himself, he is amazing.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4927
days inactive
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17 comments
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