13 Mar
2012
13 Mar
'12
9:56 a.m.
I'm looking for more information on the Teleray series of terminals
from Research, Inc. (Note: Teleray is the name of the
terminal line,
not the name of the company! Although later they referred to
themselves as the "Teleray Division" of Research, Inc.)
In particular I'm looking for manuals and other documentation. If you
have a Teleray terminal and you're looking to get rid of it, I would
be interested in purchasing it from you.
I know of the following models:
Year Model
1971 Teleray 3300
1975 Teleray 3900
1976 Teleray 3811
<1977? Teleray 3541
<1977? Teleray 3741
1977 Teleray 3841
1977 Teleray 4041
1978 Teleray 1061
1979 Teleray 10
1979 Teleray 11
1979 Teleray 12
1980 Teleray 14
<1981? Teleray 100
1982 Teleray 16
1985 Teleray 20-7305
<1990? Teleray 30
Thanks!
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13 Mar
13 Mar
11:12 a.m.
Richard wrote:
I'm looking for more information on the Teleray
series of terminals
from Research, Inc. (Note: Teleray is the name of the terminal line,
not the name of the company! Although later they referred to
themselves as the "Teleray Division" of Research, Inc.)
I don't have
any docs or terminals, but I used Teleray terminals at a
university in the mid-1980s. I'm not sure which model, but it was
reportedly 6502-based, and had some kind of hacked firmware installed.
I don't know anything about the precise nature of the hack; it
apparently it was not just a local hack, but was relatively widely used
by Arpanet sites.
11:24 a.m.
I wrote about Teleray terminals:
I'm not sure which model, but it was reportedly
6502-based, and had
some kind of hacked firmware installed. I don't know anything about
the precise nature of the hack; it apparently it was not just a local
hack, but was relatively widely used by Arpanet sites.
Found it. It was a 1061, and the firmware wasn't the stock firmware,
but the modified version actually was from Research Inc., commissioned
by the University of Utah as described in the Usenet article below.
If I had a 1061, I'd certainly want this firmware!
Eric
Aucbvax.4490
fa.info-terms
utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!info-terms
Fri Oct 16 00:36:01 1981
New Version of Teleray ucode available
From FRANK at UTAH-20 Thu Oct 15 22:04:32 1981
We commisioned Research Inc. to develop a new set of ucode for the Teleray
1061, which is now available. It is referred to a Special Feature 720
(ARPANET version), and comes on five 2708s proms, as well as requiring
some trace changes on the main PC board.
Main improvements are:
1) retains all the features of the current "Arpa" ucode (meta key, down line
loadable fcn keys).
2) massive speed up in I/D line. With the preliminary measurements that
I have made, it require only two nulls at 9600 for the worst case I/D
line. This is accomplished by a line map, which is modified for I/D line
instead of actually moving lines in memory. The speed-up amounts to a
25:1 improvement in I/D line performance.
3) Definable scrolling window (a la VT100). One can now set a window beginning
at one line and ending at another, and scrolling only takes place within
that window.
4) The numeric key pad is now soft - the keys correspond to prog. fcns 21-32.
5) A new escape sequence will now clear just the prog. fcns - previously you
had to reset the terminal in order to clear the fcn keys.
6) Status line: pressing "shift rubout" display a status line with baud
rate, scrolling window limits, etc, overwriting (temporarily) the 24th
line.
7) On reset, tabs come up in the position that DEC operating systems
assume they'll come up in.
My understanding is that an upgrade kit with instructions for modifying the pc
board, as well as a new set of ucode, can be ordered from Teleray. Give Dennis
Stollenwork at Teleray a phone call for more info on the upgrade kit. I don't
have the particulars; we basically got one terminal with the changes and are
now in the process of retrofitting all of our others.
Randy
-------
1:37 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote:
I wrote about Teleray terminals:
> I'm not sure which model, but it was reportedly 6502-based, and had some
> kind of hacked firmware installed.
Are there any photos of the PCBs out there? I have a small box of
what appear to be 6502-based terminal boards with lots of socketed
TTL. I do not know the vendor, but I can look for distinctive
markings. I never had the terminals. I just picked up a box of
"random" boards from a Hamfest some time ago.
I don't think that many terminals used a 6502, but admittedly, my
experience with DEC terminals is far greater than 3rd party terminals.
-ethan
3:05 p.m.
In article <CAALmimnjdza30k3uNLdmAn7D1qC-uiSt39UoiopsVr0oX0YS1Q at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
I don't think that many terminals used a 6502, but
admittedly, my
experience with DEC terminals is far greater than 3rd party terminals.
At least a couple of terminals used the 6502; I'm assuming because it was
cheaper than other 8 bit microprocessors.
AED 1024 (and 512 as well, I believe) for one, TeleVideo 925 for another.
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/aed/AED_1024/>
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/TeleVideo_925>
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9 Nov
9 Nov
7:23 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Eric Smith <eric
at brouhaha.com> wrote:
I found one of the boards tonight... It's really hard to read the
hand-written scrawl on the label, but it certainly _could_ be 1061.
The board has several DB25s on one edge, a prominent pair of 9114
SRAMs, what looks like a ROM in one corner (if 8316 is a part number
for a 2K masked-programmed ROM), and I think it attaches to the video
circuit with a two-row 0.1" ribbon cable of about 20 pins. There are
a pair of side-toggle dip-switches on one edge for what looks like
configuration settings.
I did a bit of googling for the Teleray 1061 and about all I found out
is that it was released in 1978 for around $1100 and there are some
quirks with it enough to get mentioned in termcap comments. I did not
find schematics or a proper manual.
When I got it, I didn't know what it was and I got it for the socketed
parts. If anyone is trying to fix a Teleray 1061, this could be your
lucky day. The chips on it are worth a few dollars to me as spares
but not a vast amount. I already have more dumb terminals that I
could ever use, so I see no reason why I'd ever try to turn this board
into a working terminal. If someone wants it, contact me off-list,
otherwise, it'll stay in the parts bin for now.
-ethan
Richard wrote:
I wrote about Teleray terminals:
> I'm not sure which model, but it was reportedly 6502-based, and had some
> kind of hacked firmware installed.
Are there any photos of the PCBs out there? I have a small box of
what appear to be 6502-based terminal boards with lots of socketed
TTL. I do not know the vendor, but I can look for distinctive
markings. I never had the terminals. I just picked up a box of
"random" boards from a Hamfest some time ago.
13 Mar
13 Mar
11:30 a.m.
In article <4F5F8E1A.8090508 at brouhaha.com>,
Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> writes:
I don't have any docs or terminals, but I used
Teleray terminals at a
university in the mid-1980s. I'm not sure which model, but it was
reportedly 6502-based, and had some kind of hacked firmware installed.
This one?
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Research_Teleray_1061>
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14 Mar
14 Mar
8:13 a.m.
Research Inc was a company here in MN. Their model 3300 was used
quite extensively in schools around the state to access the TIES and
MECC timesharing networks that provided computing to grade schools,
junior highs and highschools throughout the 70's and 80's. They were
almost always paired with a Multi-Tech FM300 or FM30 acoustic coupler
(also a MN company).
Research Inc main business was process control equipment and it was
my understanding that they started making their own CRT terminals for
that market.
I had a 3300 for many years when I was a kid. I have a manual for it
that includes schematics.
The CRT in those units was built by Ball Brothers, yet another MN company.
They were very heavy but built like a tank. All steel enclosure.
The 3300 had no processor of any sort. Was all 7400 TTL and used a
2513 character generator ROM. It was uppercase only and had no cursor
control other than <CR> and <LF>. It was pretty much a glass teletype.
Max speed, 1200 baud but switchable to 300 and 110 too.
It used 1401 or 1404 shift registers for the display buffer so there
was no RAM in it either.
I modified mine to add lower case capability with a second 2513 char
generator and some additional decoding. There was no way to get decenders
on the lowercase letters though so they just floated up a little next
to the uppercase chars. But it was like a small miracle to have both
upper and lower case right there on _my_ screen.
You and I are competing to find one of these terminals. I feel a little
bit of pain each time I think about the day I got rid of the one I had.
Chris
On Tuesday (03/13/2012 at 10:56AM -0600), Richard wrote:
I'm looking for more information on the Teleray
series of terminals
from Research, Inc. (Note: Teleray is the name of the terminal line,
not the name of the company! Although later they referred to
themselves as the "Teleray Division" of Research, Inc.)
In particular I'm looking for manuals and other documentation. If you
have a Teleray terminal and you're looking to get rid of it, I would
be interested in purchasing it from you.
I know of the following models:
Year Model
1971 Teleray 3300
1975 Teleray 3900
1976 Teleray 3811
<1977? Teleray 3541
<1977? Teleray 3741
1977 Teleray 3841
1977 Teleray 4041
1978 Teleray 1061
1979 Teleray 10
1979 Teleray 11
1979 Teleray 12
1980 Teleray 14
<1981? Teleray 100
1982 Teleray 16
1985 Teleray 20-7305
<1990? Teleray 30
Thanks!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 version available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
--
Chris Elmquist
9:14 a.m.
Hi Chris,
This is great info and I've updated these pages as a result:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Research_Teleray_3300>
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Research>
In article <20120314151319.GA27568 at n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
You and I are competing to find one of these
terminals. I feel a little
bit of pain each time I think about the day I got rid of the one I had.
I have 3 Telerays, as shown here on the bottom:
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/cgm/sprawl4/dsc_0610.jpg>
Bottom left is either a 3300 or a later model in a similar case.
Bottom right is probably of similar vintage, but I can't remember the
model number. Next to bottom, left, is a Teleray 10.
I will be down at the warehouse tomorrow and will check the model plates.
I am very much interested in having documentation online; the CHM only
has a Teleray 11 in their collection:
<http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102690058>
In December, 2007 Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. mentioned that he had a "Teleray
TE-10", I don't know if he's still on the list.
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10:47 a.m.
On Wednesday (03/14/2012 at 10:14AM -0600), Richard wrote:
Hi Chris,
This is great info and I've updated these pages as a result:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Research_Teleray_3300>
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Research>
Cool. I'll try to firm up the facts in the next day or two and report
back with any updates.
My dad was buddies with one of the senior management at Research Inc. and
arranged a tour for me there when I was about 15 I think. I took the
model 3300 home with me that day as well as blank PCBs for newer models
they had in development. Unfortunately, I no longer have those PCBs
but my memory (which is good, just short) suggests that one of them did
have a 6502 on it. I remember contemplating how I could source all the
parts and build one of them up but I never executed on that plan.
In article <20120314151319.GA27568 at
n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
Yes... the bottom left looks similar to what I remember although mine did
not have switches between the keyboard and the display and the display
bezel was a 1/4" thick piece of glass that had been painted black on
the backside and masked to expose just the viewable part of the CRT.
There was no "carrier" indicator on the bezel but there was a pot which
adjusted the brightness and was also the on/off switch. The pot stuck
through a hole drilled in the glass with a black knob on the outside.
There were a few switches on the back... one picked half/full duplex
and the other the baud rate... which I seem to remember was just a two
position switch and you had to set an internal jumper to chose which
speed was assigned to which position-- but it's possible I may have made
that mod myself, adding a toggle to the back panel so that I didn't have
to keep taking the (heavy) lid off to change speeds.
You and I are competing to find one of these
terminals. I feel a little
bit of pain each time I think about the day I got rid of the one I had.
I have 3 Telerays, as shown here on the bottom:
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/cgm/sprawl4/dsc_0610.jpg>
Bottom left is either a 3300 or a later model in a similar case.
Bottom right is probably of similar vintage, but I can't remember the
model number. Next to bottom, left, is a Teleray 10. I will be down at the warehouse tomorrow and will
check the model plates.
I am very much interested in having documentation online; the CHM only
has a Teleray 11 in their collection:
<http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102690058>
OK. I'll look into scanning what I have. I know where it is on the
bookshelf, in a 3-ring binder with Research, Inc. logo on it.
In December, 2007 Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. mentioned that
he had a "Teleray
TE-10", I don't know if he's still on the list.
They were a neat piece of computing history for me-- especially with the
local MN connection.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
11:40 a.m.
Al Kossow just scanned this brochure from the CHM's collection:
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/researchInc/Teleray_Brochure_1975.pdf>
In article <20120314174703.GJ27568 at n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
Cool. I'll try to firm up the facts in the next
day or two and report
back with any updates.
Sweet.
> In article <20120314151319.GA27568 at
n0jcf.net>,
> Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
On Wednesday (03/14/2012 at 10:14AM -0600), Richard
wrote:
This sounds similar to the 3500/3700/3900 depicted in the brochure.
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I have 3 Telerays, as shown here on the bottom:
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/cgm/sprawl4/dsc_0610.jpg>
Bottom left is either a 3300 or a later model in a similar case.
Yes... the bottom left looks similar to what I remember although mine did
not have switches between the keyboard and the display and the display
bezel was a 1/4" thick piece of glass that had been painted black on
the backside and masked to expose just the viewable part of the CRT.
There was no "carrier" indicator on the bezel but there was a pot which
adjusted the brightness and was also the on/off switch. The pot stuck
through a hole drilled in the glass with a black knob on the outside. 
1:56 p.m.
Chris - nice post. University of Texas/@Arlington had scads of these for use as glass
TTYs, all had the APL character set. They were hooked up to our IBM 370/155 running
APL\Plus and WYLBUR. My recollection was that Telerays were a very popular inexpensive APL
terminal. Pretty heavy duty also, able to be used by 100s/1000s of student without a
hiccup.
?
Lee Courtney
________________________________
From: Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Wanted: Research Inc. Teleray terminals
Research Inc was a company here in MN.? Their model 3300 was used
quite extensively in schools around the state to access the TIES and
MECC timesharing networks that provided computing to grade schools,
junior highs and highschools throughout the 70's and 80's.? They were
almost always paired with a Multi-Tech FM300 or FM30 acoustic coupler
(also a MN company).
Research Inc main business was process control equipment and it was
my understanding that they started making their own CRT terminals for
that market.
I had a 3300 for many years when I was a kid.? I have a manual for it
that includes schematics.
The CRT in those units was built by Ball Brothers, yet another MN company.
They were very heavy but built like a tank.? All steel enclosure.
The 3300 had no processor of any sort.? Was all 7400 TTL and used a
2513 character generator ROM.? It was uppercase only and had no cursor
control other than <CR> and <LF>.? It was pretty much a glass teletype.
Max speed, 1200 baud but switchable to 300 and 110 too.
It used 1401 or 1404 shift registers for the display buffer so there
was no RAM in it either.
I modified mine to add lower case capability with a second 2513 char
generator and some additional decoding.? There was no way to get decenders
on the lowercase letters though so they just floated up a little next
to the uppercase chars.? But it was like a small miracle to have both
upper and lower case right there on _my_ screen.
You and I are competing to find one of these terminals.? I feel a little
bit of pain each time I think about the day I got rid of the one I had.
Chris
On Tuesday (03/13/2012 at 10:56AM -0600), Richard wrote:
I'm looking for more information on the Teleray
series of terminals
from Research, Inc.? (Note: Teleray is the name of the terminal line,
not the name of the company!? Although later they referred to
themselves as the "Teleray Division" of Research, Inc.)
In particular I'm looking for manuals and other documentation.? If you
have a Teleray terminal and you're looking to get rid of it, I would
be interested in purchasing it from you.
I know of the following models:
Year? ? Model
1971? ? Teleray 3300
1975? ? Teleray 3900
1976? ? Teleray 3811
<1977?? Teleray 3541
<1977?? Teleray 3741
1977? ? Teleray 3841
1977? ? Teleray 4041
1978? ? Teleray 1061
1979? ? Teleray 10
1979? ? Teleray 11
1979? ? Teleray 12
1980? ? Teleray 14
<1981?? Teleray 100
1982? ? Teleray 16
1985? ? Teleray 20-7305
<1990?? Teleray 30
Thanks!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 version available for download
? <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
? ? ? Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
--
Chris Elmquist
3:53 p.m.
The University of Chicago Computation Center deployed Teleray 4041
terminals (VT-52 compatible) to employees' desks. I really liked
them, myself. They're what I first learned EMACS on (the real,
TECO-based one). Later, after moving into the systems programming
group, I had an HDS Concept-108 (_sui generis_) which was OK, but
I'd really like to have a couple of 4041's for the museum, to sit
beside our Z-19.
(Once I moved to LOTS, I learned the dictum, "Never buy a terminal
with 'TELE,' 'DATA,' or 'MEDIA' in the name." Funny how
many brands
that left out. :-)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
4:51 p.m.
New subject: Terminal brand dictum (was: Wanted: Research Inc. Teleray terminals)
In article <539CFBE84C931A4E8516F3BBEA36C7AA4D801B19 at 505MBX1.corp.vnw.com>,
Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
(Once I moved to LOTS, I learned the dictum,
"Never buy a terminal
with 'TELE,' 'DATA,' or 'MEDIA' in the name." Funny how
many brands
that left out. :-)
What was the reasoning behind this? That basically blocks out:
Teleray, Teletec, Teletype, TeleVideo,
Datagraphix, Applied Digital Data Systems (ADDS), Datamedia.
Probably a few more, but based on my research so far that's what I
know of.
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4191
days inactive
4433
days old
13 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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charlesleecourtney＠yahoo.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com