23 Jun
2021
23 Jun
'21
3:08 p.m.
One VT340 emulator that works quite well is the VT Lan 40. This was one
of the last terminals made by DEC. It ran Windows 3.1 from ROM and
used the LK411-AA keyboard (with the round PC keyboard connector)
displaying on a Super VGA LCD display (1024 x 768 x 16 colors)
It could connect to several (unto 8) systems simultaneously using a
DB25 serial, a MMJ serial, then over its ethernet connector: multiple LAT,
CTERM (DECnet) and Telnet (TCP/IP) sessions. The session windows allow
cut and paste between Windows.
The VT340 emulation seems to be perfect displaying Regis and pixels
correctly and handling mouse movements correctly in the VT340 mode.
Output from Saturn Graph for VMS works great!
It also displays APL overstrike characters correctly with VAX APL using
the ^D prefix described in the APL documentation. It also handles some
escape sequence quirks that RSX KED does that mess up other VT100
emulators.
Being able to use a Super VGA display allows a small footprint compared to a
real VT340 (for VCF events) and the fact that it uses a real LK411 keyboard is great.
The only minor issue is that they are not cheap, but you can buy new-in-thebox
old inventory at:
http://keyways.com/vtlan40.html
You?ll also need a VT411-AA keyboard sold separately and find a Super VGA
LCD display. Fortunately the last item can be cheap. I got a good NEC one at a
second hand store for $20.
One final comment, the two VT Lan 40s I got eventually had a connector
between the front power switch and the actual switch break due to a bad
choice of plastic by DEC. However, this can easily be repaired with a 1? piece
of 1/8? I.D. PVC tubing from the hardware store.
Mark Matlock
23 Jun
23 Jun
11:25 p.m.
And all this time I thought that I wanted a VT525! How much are the VTLAN40?s going for?
Zane
Sent from my iPod
On Jun 23, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Mark Matlock via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
One VT340 emulator that works quite well is the VT Lan 40. This was one
of the last terminals made by DEC. It ran Windows 3.1 from ROM and
used the LK411-AA keyboard (with the round PC keyboard connector)
displaying on a Super VGA LCD display (1024 x 768 x 16 colors)
It could connect to several (unto 8) systems simultaneously using a
DB25 serial, a MMJ serial, then over its ethernet connector: multiple LAT,
CTERM (DECnet) and Telnet (TCP/IP) sessions. The session windows allow
cut and paste between Windows.
The VT340 emulation seems to be perfect displaying Regis and pixels
correctly and handling mouse movements correctly in the VT340 mode.
Output from Saturn Graph for VMS works great!
It also displays APL overstrike characters correctly with VAX APL using
the ^D prefix described in the APL documentation. It also handles some
escape sequence quirks that RSX KED does that mess up other VT100
emulators.
Being able to use a Super VGA display allows a small footprint compared to a
real VT340 (for VCF events) and the fact that it uses a real LK411 keyboard is great.
The only minor issue is that they are not cheap, but you can buy new-in-thebox
old inventory at:
http://keyways.com/vtlan40.html
You?ll also need a VT411-AA keyboard sold separately and find a Super VGA
LCD display. Fortunately the last item can be cheap. I got a good NEC one at a
second hand store for $20.
One final comment, the two VT Lan 40s I got eventually had a connector
between the front power switch and the actual switch break due to a bad
choice of plastic by DEC. However, this can easily be repaired with a 1? piece
of 1/8? I.D. PVC tubing from the hardware store.
Mark Matlock
24 Jun
24 Jun
6:30 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:25 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh at
avanthar.com> wrote:
And all this time I thought that I wanted a VT525! How much are the VTLAN40?s going
for?
Zane
Zane,
If you explain to Mitch Miller at Keyways that you are a hobbyist, he will sell them
for $400,
at least he has in the past. He also has new and used LK411-AA keyboards. The last one I
bought was $190 for new. That seems expensive but it has the round connector like a PC
used to used for keyboard before USB. It might be possible to make an adapter to convert
an old VT420 keyboard to the round connector if one knew how the pin outs for each
mapped?
On the SVGA displays, I?ve been using the NEC Accusync LCD 71VM and it works well.
As the unit comes it will operate at 800 x 600 256 color, but if you go to the Windows 3.1
settings it can be changed to 1024 x 768 x 16 colors which works better to have multiple
sessions windows open at once.
Mark
7:36 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 6:30 AM, Mark Matlock <mark at matlockfamily.com> wrote:
On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:25 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh at
avanthar.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks! That?s not bad at all considering what VT525?s are going for, and I?d really like
to get a terminal with ReGIS Graphics (though I finally have a VAXstation 4000/90 running
as a VAXstation). Mind you, I?m not sure why I need one.
I wonder if an LK450-AA keyboard will work, I have a couple with WPS key-caps. I know
those will work on an AlphaStation. The VTLAN40 page indicates it needs a LK412-AQ for
the WPS version of the keyboard, so i?d probably better figure that in the cost. This
makes me wonder, has anyone ever documented what all the different keyboards go to, and
how they?re different?
I?m more awake this morning, and took another look through the webpage, this time on my
computer, rather than an iPod. This looks like the perfect replacement for the VT420
& DECserver 90TL in my Office. The ReGIS graphics helps to sell it. Most of the time
I simply use SecureCRT on my Mac Pro, but occasionally I need a real DEC keyboard.
Zane
And all this time I thought that I wanted a VT525! How much are the VTLAN40?s going
for?
Zane
Zane,
If you explain to Mitch Miller at Keyways that you are a hobbyist, he will sell them
for $400,
at least he has in the past. He also has new and used LK411-AA keyboards. The last one I
bought was $190 for new. That seems expensive but it has the round connector like a PC
used to used for keyboard before USB. It might be possible to make an adapter to convert
an old VT420 keyboard to the round connector if one knew how the pin outs for each
mapped?
On the SVGA displays, I?ve been using the NEC Accusync LCD 71VM and it works well.
As the unit comes it will operate at 800 x 600 256 color, but if you go to the Windows
3.1
settings it can be changed to 1024 x 768 x 16 colors which works better to have multiple
sessions windows open at once.
Mark
9:11 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh at
avanthar.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks! That?s not bad at all considering what VT525?s are going for, and I?d really
like to get a terminal with ReGIS Graphics (though I finally have a VAXstation 4000/90
running as a VAXstation). Mind you, I?m not sure why I need one.
I wonder if an LK450-AA keyboard will work, I have a couple with WPS key-caps. I know
those will work on an AlphaStation. The VTLAN40 page indicates it needs a LK412-AQ for
the WPS version of the keyboard, so i?d probably better figure that in the cost. This
makes me wonder, has anyone ever documented what all the different keyboards go to, and
how they?re different?
I?m more awake this morning, and took another look through the webpage, this time on my
computer, rather than an iPod. This looks like the perfect replacement for the VT420
& DECserver 90TL in my Office. The ReGIS graphics helps to sell it. Most of the time
I simply use SecureCRT on my Mac Pro, but occasionally I need a real DEC keyboard.
Zane
Zane,
Does the LK450-AA keyboard have a round 6 conductor PS/2 style connector? If so I
think it would work.
I looked up a pin out for that PS/2 connector and Pin 1 is data, Pin 2 is ground, Pin 4 is
+5V, and Pin 5 is Clock
with Pins 2 and 6 not used. I suspect that a common cheap PS/2 keyboard would also work
fine except that
keyboard mapping especially the keypad needed for EDT, KED, etc. might not work quite
right.
I do think this would make a great replacement for a VT420 and DECserver as few
terminal emulators do LAT
although Reflection did in the past. My favorite Mac VT terminal editor at the moment is
ZOC which continues to
get better with each update (although no VT340).
I?ll send you a .pdf of the user manual for the VT LAN 40 separately that will give you
a better picture of the unit.
Best,
Mark
9:50 a.m.
On 2021-06-24 10:36, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
Thanks! That?s not bad at all considering what
VT525?s are going for, and I?d really like to get a terminal with ReGIS Graphics (though I
finally have a VAXstation 4000/90 running as a VAXstation). Mind you, I?m not sure why I
need one.
If you just need Regis, get a GIGI, keyboard built in ;-)
9:06 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 9:30 AM, Mark Matlock via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing. PC keyboards with DIN connectors (PS-2) have a
very different type of interface, nothing like a UART. If the terminal you are talking
about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does, you need a protocol translator. It would
essentially be the reverse of the LK201 emulator for PS-2 keyboards I released a while
back, and possibly the same board could be used with a rather different program running on
it.
paul
On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:25 AM, Zane Healy
<healyzh at avanthar.com> wrote:
And all this time I thought that I wanted a VT525! How much are the VTLAN40?s going
for?
Zane
Zane,
If you explain to Mitch Miller at Keyways that you are a hobbyist, he will sell them
for $400,
at least he has in the past. He also has new and used LK411-AA keyboards. The last one I
bought was $190 for new. That seems expensive but it has the round connector like a PC
used to used for keyboard before USB. It might be possible to make an adapter to convert
an old VT420 keyboard to the round connector if one knew how the pin outs for each
mapped?
9:16 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing. PC keyboards with DIN connectors (PS-2) have a
very different type of interface, nothing like a UART. If the terminal you are talking
about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does, you need a protocol translator. It would
essentially be the reverse of the LK201 emulator for PS-2 keyboards I released a while
back, and possibly the same board could be used with a rather different program running on
it.
paul
Paul,
The VT LAN 40 does use the PS-2 keyboard protocol like the VT501. The main board
of the unit is a PC mother board running Windows 3.1 from ROM. It has some amount of
non-volatile memory to store session settings.
It does sound like a protocol translator like you design but in reverse would allow
the
older more common VT keyboard to be used.
Mark
10:07 a.m.
On 6/24/21 9:06 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing. PC keyboards
with DIN connectors (PS-2) have a very different type of interface, nothing like a UART.
If the terminal you are talking about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does, you need a
protocol translator. It would essentially be the reverse of the LK201 emulator for PS-2
keyboards I released a while back, and possibly the same board could be used with a rather
different program running on it.
paul
ebay seller wooch22 has been selling cherry wyse ansi layout keyboards that are
restorable, if you want something to convert
with the right layout
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313552477333
10:11 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 6/24/21 9:06 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Thanks. That's a crazy high price for what "untested, for parts" with a
thick coat of dirt. I find a conventional PC layout good enough for what I need.
paul
LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing. PC
keyboards with DIN connectors (PS-2) have a very different type of interface, nothing like
a UART. If the terminal you are talking about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does,
you need a protocol translator. It would essentially be the reverse of the LK201 emulator
for PS-2 keyboards I released a while back, and possibly the same board could be used with
a rather different program running on it.
paul
ebay seller wooch22 has been selling cherry wyse ansi layout keyboards that
are restorable, if you want something to convert
with the right layout
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313552477333 <https://www.ebay.com/itm/313552477333>
12:34 p.m.
On Jun 24, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Geeze, at that price, do I need to start clearing out my keyboard collection? Nope, not
going to do it...
I?m actually in pretty good shape, plenty of LK201?s & LK401?s (from my VT320?s,
VT420?s, and workstations), plus a couple LK450-AA?s and a PCXAL or two.
I?m just not clear on if there is any difference between a LK412-AA and a LK450-AA, both
have the WPS keycaps, both have the PS/2 style DIN connector.
I do wish I had a couple LK402-AA's (basically a 401 with WPS keycaps).
I also wish I knew why I have two LK450-AA?s. :-) Though I?m glad I do.
Besides a terminal with ReGIS Graphics, the only other terminal that would tempt me is a
Honeywell, but then I can connect to Multics from a VT420 just fine.
Zane
On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 6/24/21 9:06 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Thanks. That's a crazy high price for what "untested, for parts" with a
thick coat of dirt. I find a conventional PC layout good enough for what I need.
paul LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing. PC
keyboards with DIN connectors (PS-2) have a very different type of interface, nothing like
a UART. If the terminal you are talking about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does,
you need a protocol translator. It would essentially be the reverse of the LK201 emulator
for PS-2 keyboards I released a while back, and possibly the same board could be used with
a rather different program running on it.
paul
ebay seller wooch22 has been selling cherry wyse ansi layout keyboards that
are restorable, if you want something to convert
with the right layout
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313552477333 <https://www.ebay.com/itm/313552477333>
1:37 p.m.
On 6/24/21 12:34 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
paul
ccmp'ers blissfully ignorant at what keyboard ghouls have done to prices
$70 is cheap for a Cherry kb now
Thanks.
That's a crazy high price for what "untested, for parts" with a thick coat
of dirt. I find a conventional PC layout good enough for what I need.
paul
Geeze, at that price, do I need to start clearing out my keyboard collection? 
1:39 p.m.
On 6/23/21 4:08 PM, Mark Matlock via cctalk wrote:
One VT340 emulator that works quite well is the VT Lan
40. This was
one of the last terminals made by DEC. It ran Windows 3.1 from ROM
and used the LK411-AA keyboard (with the round PC keyboard connector)
displaying on a Super VGA LCD display (1024 x 768 x 16 colors)
It could connect to several (unto 8) systems simultaneously using a
DB25 serial, a MMJ serial, then over its ethernet connector: multiple
LAT, CTERM (DECnet) and Telnet (TCP/IP) sessions. The session windows
allow cut and paste between Windows.
The VT340 emulation seems to be perfect displaying Regis and pixels
correctly and handling mouse movements correctly in the VT340 mode.
Output from Saturn Graph for VMS works great!
It also displays APL overstrike characters correctly with VAX APL
using the ^D prefix described in the APL documentation. It also
handles some escape sequence quirks that RSX KED does that mess up
other VT100 emulators.
I think the VT LAN 40 looks super interesting. Though the mentioned
price is out of my /want/ range. Maybe if I /needed/ it. But I don't
/need/ it.
I wonder what terminal emulator it's running on top of Windows 3.x. I'd
be interested in playing with it on a comparable system.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1044
days inactive
1045
days old
12 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
mark＠matlockfamily.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net