19 Nov
2018
19 Nov
'18
3:29 p.m.
I've been helping the MAME guys simulate a TS-2624, which is a block mode HP emulating
terminal.
I had bought this a while ago, and never dumped the firmware. Unfortunately there is a
large
NiCd battery right in the middle of the board that leaked all over. I've taken some
pictures
which are up under falco on bitsavers.
If anyone has one of these, you want to do battery mitigation ASAP. I'm in the middle
of replacing
every socket on the board since they were all within range of the leakage corrosion.
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all have similar hardware with
different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
19 Nov
19 Nov
3:46 p.m.
The later model 500/5000 have a small NiCd as well.
On 11/19/18 3:29 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
I've been helping the MAME guys simulate a
TS-2624, which is a block mode HP emulating terminal.
I had bought this a while ago, and never dumped the firmware. Unfortunately there is a
large
NiCd battery right in the middle of the board that leaked all over. I've taken some
pictures
which are up under falco on bitsavers.
If anyone has one of these, you want to do battery mitigation ASAP. I'm in the middle
of replacing
every socket on the board since they were all within range of the leakage corrosion.
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all have similar hardware with
different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
8:49 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 6:29 PM
Subject: Battery warning in Falco terminals
I've been helping the MAME guys simulate a
TS-2624, which is a block mode HP emulating terminal.
I had bought this a while ago, and never dumped the firmware. Unfortunately there is a
large
NiCd battery right in the middle of the board that leaked all over. I've taken some
pictures
which are up under falco on bitsavers.
If anyone has one of these, you want to do battery mitigation ASAP. I'm in the middle
of replacing
every socket on the board since they were all within range of the leakage corrosion.
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all have similar hardware with
different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
------------------------------
I'm confused; I've got at least one TS-2624 board which is identical to yours and
also several TS-1s and TS-1SPs, but they all had the backup battery in the power supply
so, although the power supplies were damaged, the Main boards were not (although it's
amazing how far the corrosion can migrate).
The TS-1s and TS2624s were very similar but certainly not the same board.
I've also got some of the newer Fame style models; guess I should look at those but if
they have the pox then it's probably too late.
FWIW, I've also got a bit of documentation for these and various other Falco terminals
(User, programming & service) but alas, not for the 2624; I can also certainly dump
any firmware that I have.
mike
9:21 p.m.
Just had a closer look at the TS-2624 and it does indeed have the battery on the board;
looks like that's one of the differences from the TS-1x.
Looks like I or someone had enough foresight to remove it from this board before it caused
any damage.
m
11:54 p.m.
On 2018-Nov-19, at 3:29 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
I've been helping the MAME guys simulate a
TS-2624, which is a block mode HP emulating terminal.
I had bought this a while ago, and never dumped the firmware. Unfortunately there is a
large
NiCd battery right in the middle of the board that leaked all over. I've taken some
pictures
which are up under falco on bitsavers.
If anyone has one of these, you want to do battery mitigation ASAP. I'm in the middle
of replacing
every socket on the board since they were all within range of the leakage corrosion.
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all have similar hardware with
different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
I had a Falco TS-1 dating from ca. 1981 in my possession a couple of years ago and dumped
the ROMS.
It was based on a Z80 with 6845 CRT controller and 2651 UART.
I have data from two 2732s (Z80 firmware), as well as an EA8316 (2K*8) used for character
generation.
That's in text format.
Also have a PDF with some notes on the hardware and reverse-engineered schematic
segments.
I didn't have need / get as far as doing an I/O map or memory map for the Z80.
Should I send these files along?
20 Nov
20 Nov
5:11 a.m.
On 11/19/18 11:54 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
I didn't have need / get as far as doing an I/O
map or memory map for the Z80.
Should I send these files along?
Yes, please to dumps/docs and board/terminal pics from you and Mike!
I'm sure Richard would appreciate these as well for the terminals wiki.
They have a preliminary memory and I/O map in the MAME driver
Falco keyboards are pretty funky. They use transformer-coupled switches
with a core that slides between coils on the top and bottom of the PCB
They appear to use a serial bitstream for the keypresses. EPROM dumps
from the later keyboards with an 8035 would be very
useful too, since
CHM has a later model 52xx terminal with a 5 pin DIN, but I've
been
unable to find the keyboard.
I'm guessing the TS-1 series all used the same PCB with different keyboards
and firmware.
The Fame series use 267x CRT controllers. The 52xx have a custom video ASIC
I've not seen the insides of any of the Fame series.
11:07 a.m.
On 2018-Nov-20, at 5:11 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 11/19/18 11:54 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
(The TS-1 data files have been sent to Al.)
I did happen to RE the keyboard and analyse it's functioning some as it needed repair,
so that's included in the schematic bits.
The PCB-transformer key design is novel, but (in the TS-1) so is the scanning &
communication.
There is no microcontroller on the keyboard, scanning is performed by the main unit, it
sends a key matrix address to the keyboard in serial, the keyboard sends back nothing but
a binary key-pressed indication.
I didn't have need / get as far as doing an
I/O map or memory map for the Z80.
Should I send these files along?
Yes, please to dumps/docs and board/terminal pics from you and Mike!
I'm sure Richard would appreciate these as well for the terminals wiki.
They have a preliminary memory and I/O map in the MAME driver
Falco keyboards are pretty funky. They use transformer-coupled switches
with a core that slides between coils on the top and bottom of the PCB
They appear to use a serial bitstream for the keypresses. EPROM dumps
from the later keyboards with an 8035 would be very useful too, since
CHM has a later model 52xx terminal with a 5 pin DIN, but I've been
unable to find the keyboard.
I'm guessing the TS-1 series all used the same PCB with different keyboards
and firmware.
The Fame series use 267x CRT controllers. The 52xx have a custom video ASIC
I've not seen the insides of any of the Fame series. 
11:18 a.m.
On Nov 20, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
The PCB-transformer key design is novel, but (in the TS-1) so is the scanning &
communication.
There is no microcontroller on the keyboard, scanning is performed by the main unit, it
sends a key matrix address to the keyboard in serial, the keyboard sends back nothing but
a binary key-pressed indication.
I'm not positive, but my impression is that the same is true for the VT-100 keyboard.
paul
11:56 a.m.
On 2018-Nov-20, at 11:18 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
You may be right, rings a bell from working on one,
Wasn't intending to suggest the falco was necessarily unique.
IIRC, the VT-100 keyboard comm involved standard async UARTs.
It's a little weirder on the TS-1, one edge of pulses on the address-line are a
clock-pulse, some uS later - determined by a monostable - the state of the same line is
sampled for an address bit. After 8-10 such pulses the matrix is strobed, involving
another monostable, so there are some timing issues both sides have to independently
account for.
On Nov 20,
2018, at 2:07 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
The PCB-transformer key design is novel, but (in the TS-1) so is the scanning &
communication.
There is no microcontroller on the keyboard, scanning is performed by the main unit, it
sends a key matrix address to the keyboard in serial, the keyboard sends back nothing but
a binary key-pressed indication.
I'm not positive, but my impression is that the same is true for the VT-100 keyboard.
12:40 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Hilpert via cctalk" Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Battery warning in Falco terminals
I did happen to RE the keyboard and analyse it's
functioning some as it needed repair, so that's included in the schematic bits.
----------------
You should have asked asked as well ;-) I've not only got the schematics & theory
of operation but also a box full of keyboards ;-)
But I'm surprised; what was wrong with it?
1:21 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 6:29 PM
Subject: Battery warning in Falco terminals
...
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all
have similar hardware with different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
-----------------------------
Don't forget the three PROMs ;-)
There were at least 2 models of the TS-1; the TS-1SP added paging & scrollback among
other features, and there was also the similar TS-100.
Their magnetic core & transformer keyboard technology always intrigued me; very
reliable & spillproof but I never saw it used anywhere else.
11:28 a.m.
On 2018-Nov-20, at 1:21 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 6:29 PM
Subject: Battery warning in Falco terminals
...
Were there 3 PROMs on the TS-1? I don't remember (and unfortunately didn't dump
them, unless you're including the character generator amongst the 3).
They were probably soldered in and I was probably thinking mainly about eraseable chips
and did the CG as well as it (would have been) socketed.
If they were small PROMs, they were perhaps I/O and memory address decoding.
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals
all have similar hardware with different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
-----------------------------
Don't forget the three PROMs ;-)
There were at least 2 models of the TS-1; the TS-1SP added paging & scrollback among
other features, and there was also the similar TS-100.
Their magnetic core & transformer keyboard technology always intrigued me; very
reliable & spillproof but I never saw it used anywhere else.
11:42 a.m.
On 11/20/18 11:28 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
Were there 3 PROMs on the TS-1? I don't remember
There are three bipolar proms on the 2624 that you can see on the pcb picture
I still need to dump those, only one is socketed.
It looks like the keyboard is very similar in the 2624 with an added row of
function keys.
I just bought the users and programming manuals for the TS-1, need to get those
scanned today.
11:51 a.m.
On 2018-Nov-20, at 11:42 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 11/20/18 11:28 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
Just curiousity, but was there something special about the Falcos that's generating
particular interest, or of note?
Were there 3 PROMs on the TS-1? I don't
remember
There are three bipolar proms on the 2624 that you can see on the pcb picture
I still need to dump those, only one is socketed.
It looks like the keyboard is very similar in the 2624 with an added row of
function keys.
I just bought the users and programming manuals for the TS-1, need to get those
scanned today.
11:57 a.m.
On 11/20/18 11:51 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
Just curiousity, but was there something special about
the Falcos that's generating particular interest, or of note?
Mostly that they are uncommon.
I suspect with the NiCd batteries that very few still work
and unfortunately, they have detached keyboards so finding
complete units will be increasingly difficult in the future.
12:06 p.m.
On 11/20/18 11:57 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 11/20/18 11:51 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
It also turns out they took over the building I worked in at 440 Potrero in Svale after
Advanced Electronics Design died.
Just curiousity, but was there something special
about the Falcos that's generating particular interest, or of note?
Mostly that they are uncommon.
12:33 p.m.
On 2018-Nov-20, at 11:42 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
I just bought the users and programming manuals for
the TS-1, need to get those scanned today.
----------------------
You should have asked ;-)
I think I've got 4 or 5 spare copies somewhere ;-)
=============
On 11/20/18 11:28 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
Just curiousity, but was there something special about
the Falcos that's generating particular interest, or of note?
----------------------
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing; when these came up several years ago there seemed to
be a singular lack of interest.
BTW, what's the story on Richard in SLC; is there a new address for the Terminal
Wiki?
4:44 p.m.
On 11/20/18 12:33 PM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
BTW, what's the story on Richard in SLC; is there
a new address for the Terminal Wiki?
https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
21 Nov
21 Nov
7:22 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Battery warning in Falco terminals
On 11/20/18 12:33 PM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
That address consistently returns "This site can't be reached."
BTW, for some reason I get some of your (Al's) posts _after_ I've received replies
to them, sometimes almost a day later; very confusing. It seems to be related to the fact
that some of your posts are addressed to 'cctalk at classiccmp' while others are
addressed to 'General Discussion'.
Am I the only one to whom that happens? Any idea why?
BTW, what's the story on Richard in SLC; is
there a new address for the Terminal Wiki?
https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
10:40 a.m.
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:22:16 -0500
Mike Stein via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Battery warning in Falco terminals
I have no problems getting to the site...
--snip--
Lyle
--
73 NM6Y
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
On 11/20/18 12:33 PM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
That address consistently returns "This site can't be reached." BTW, what's the story on Richard in SLC; is
there a new address
for the Terminal Wiki?
https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
10:59 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 7:23 AM Mike Stein via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
BTW, for some reason I get some of your (Al's) posts _after_ I've received
replies to them, sometimes almost a day later; very confusing. It seems to be related to
the fact that some of your posts are addressed to 'cctalk at classiccmp' while
others are addressed to 'General Discussion'.
Am I the only one to whom that happens? Any idea why?
No, you are not the only one that has been seeing this. I have only
noticed this happening in the last couple of weeks. In some cases I
have been seeing replies to original posts hours or a day before I
finally receive the original post. Off hand I don't recall if I have
seen this with posters other than Al. Is this a gmail thing, or a
classiccmp server thing?
7:36 p.m.
Al,
If you're looking for a service manual for that HP2624 you might have a look at the
manual for the MAI 4309; it's the same board with a few minor differences (memory) and
different firmware.
And of course it's on bitsavers ;-)
mike
22 Nov
22 Nov
3:42 a.m.
On 11/21/18 7:36 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
Al,
If you're looking for a service manual for that HP2624 you might have a look at the
manual for the MAI 4309; it's the same board with a few minor differences (memory) and
different firmware.
And of course it's on bitsavers ;-)
mike
thanks!
It also appears there is some overlap between Morrow and Zenith terminals.
I took apart my MD-3P (the outer shell is a mechanical nightmare) and when
I looked at the MDT-60 service manual the schematic is the same as a Zenith
model but the board in the terminal is a Morrow design.
The MAI terminal manual that was just sent to me was made by Direct, need to get my
copies of the Direct manuals scanned.
20 Nov
20 Nov
11:59 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Hilpert via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Battery warning in Falco terminals
On 2018-Nov-20, at 1:21 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 6:29 PM
Subject: Battery warning in Falco terminals
...
Were there 3 PROMs on the TS-1? I don't remember (and unfortunately didn't dump
them, unless you're including the character generator amongst the 3).
They were probably soldered in and I was probably thinking mainly about eraseable chips
and did the CG as well as it (would have been) socketed.
If they were small PROMs, they were perhaps I/O and memory address decoding.
===========================
I was talking about the 2624 and yes, they're small 32 byte PROMs for decoding;
probably not relevant for an emulator (therefore the smiley) but maybe useful to archive
for repair purposes.
On my 2624s two are soldered in and one is socketed.
I can't find my box of TS-1 boards so I'll have to open one up to see what's
on there.
I'll have a look for the box with documentation but it might be a while; BTW, my
inventory says that I _do_ have a User's manual for the TS-2624 (V1.16).
FALCO TS-1 Maint Man & Tech Bulletins 2/82
FALCO TS-1 Operator's Guide
FALCO TS-1 "Programmer's Guide, Pgmg Hints & Tips"
FALCO TS-1 "TS-1SP Tutorial, TS-1 FW Rel V2.15, SP1.10"
FALCO TS-100SP Operator's Guide
FALCO FAME100 Users Manual
FALCO TS-2624 User's Manual V1.16 (HP emulation)
FALCO 5220E Programmer's Manual
Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals
all have similar hardware with different
firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them
simulated
pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.
-----------------------------
Don't forget the three PROMs ;-)
There were at least 2 models of the TS-1; the TS-1SP added paging & scrollback among
other features, and there was also the similar TS-100.
Their magnetic core & transformer keyboard technology always intrigued me; very
reliable & spillproof but I never saw it used anywhere else.
2222
days inactive
2225
days old
23 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bhilpert＠shaw.ca -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net