26 Jan
2006
26 Jan
'06
2:23 p.m.
What do you use in this thing? I've got a VAX 4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
2:32 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
The huge cyclic "bulk-erased TK50 media" discussion?
Doc
Richard wrote:
???? What do you use in this thing? I've got a VAX
4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
*moan*
Here we go again... 
3:14 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
The huge cyclic "bulk-erased TK50 media" discussion?
Doc
I've obviously been lucky enough not to have noticed that discussion. How
odd.
Zane
Richard
wrote:
???? What do you use in this thing? I've got a VAX
4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
*moan*
Here we go again...
2:30 p.m.
What do you use in this thing? I've got a VAX
4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
Compact Tape II's (aka TK70's :^)
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller, or get a CD-ROM hooked
in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the effort in this day
and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes. Sadly, TK50's are still
worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11.
Zane
2:31 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I've had good luck with a TK50 attached to a TK70 controller. Much,
much faster than the original controller.
Doc
What do you use
in this thing? I've got a VAX 4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
Compact Tape II's (aka TK70's :^)
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller, or get a CD-ROM hooked
in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the effort in this day
and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes. Sadly, TK50's are still
worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11.
3:13 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I've had good luck with a TK50 attached to a TK70 controller. Much,
much faster than the original controller.
Doc
I'd forgotten about that, I think that says something about how often I use
TK50's or TK70's these days.
Zane
What do
you use in this thing? I've got a VAX 4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
Compact Tape II's (aka TK70's :^)
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller, or get a CD-ROM hooked
in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the effort in this day
and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes. Sadly, TK50's are still
worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11.
2:33 p.m.
In article <200601262230.k0QMU7qR005246 at onyx.spiritone.com>,
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> writes:
That's kinda what I figured. It looked like a weird DEC proprietary
form factor for the media. A quick google didn't turn up any obvious
discussion of the media. The machine has ethernet and I'm not sure, but
it might also have a SCSI interface. With ethernet I can get data into/out
of the machine (heck, even the console interface can do that, but
ethernet would be more expedient).
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
What do you
use in this thing? I've got a VAX 4000/300 with a TK70,
but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I should be
looking for to feed it :)
Compact Tape II's (aka TK70's :^)
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller, or get a CD-ROM hooked
in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the effort in this day
and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes. Sadly, TK50's are still
worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11. 
2:55 p.m.
On Thursday 26 January 2006 17:33, Richard wrote:
In article <200601262230.k0QMU7qR005246 at
onyx.spiritone.com>,
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> writes:
That's kinda what I figured. It looked like a weird DEC proprietary
form factor for the media. A quick google didn't turn up any obvious
If by "proprietary DEC formfactor", you mean "looks like a DLT tape",
then yes.
BTW, just any old DLT tape (probably) won't work in the drive. You need
to find a TK50 or TK70 cartridge. As Doc alluded to, you can maybe
possibly probably use bulk-erased TK50 tapes as if they were TK70
tapes, but it's a topic for a lot of disagreement... almost like "do
3.5" HD floppies work reliably as DD floppies?".
What do
you use in this thing? I've got a VAX 4000/300 with a
TK70, but it didn't come with any media and I'm wondering what I
should be looking for to feed it :)
Compact Tape II's (aka TK70's :^)
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller, or get a
CD-ROM hooked in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth
the effort in this day and age, unless you're trying to *read*
tapes. Sadly, TK50's are still worth the trouble, at least on a
PDP-11. discussion of the media. The machine has ethernet and
I'm not sure,
but it might also have a SCSI interface. With ethernet I can get
data into/out of the machine (heck, even the console interface can do
that, but ethernet would be more expedient).
Depending on what OS you run, you may want a real QBUS ethernet card.
I've had limited (read: horrible) luck using the onboard ethernet on my
4000/300 with NetBSD. I'm not sure if that's because of the controller
design, or whether my machine has issues. VMS might have better luck.
BTW, the male-HD50 "SCSI" connector on the 4000/300 is NOT SCSI, it's
DSSI, and while somewhat similar electrically, they're nowhere near
similar enough to be able to take a normal SCSI drive and connect it to
the bus. I tried that once, and ended up having to replace the
terminator fuses on the CPU. Also, NetBSD doesn't have DSSI support,
partly because DEC didn't do a very good job of documenting it, and
it's a fairly complex protocol, even compared to something like SCSI.
You might have a QBUS SCSI card though. KZQSA's are somewhat common on
the pedestal VAX 4000's for controlling a CDROM drive.... note that
while that works OK with VMS, it isn't supported as far as I know under
NetBSD, etc, and the interface was designed poorly enough that you
can't reliably run more than about 1 (or maybe 2) device(s) off of it.
You might also have a 3rd party SCSI controller, which *would* allow
you to connect SCSI disks to it, and be supported under more than just
VMS.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
4:12 p.m.
In article <200601261755.15568.pat at computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
If by "proprietary DEC formfactor", you mean
"looks like a DLT tape",
then yes.
I don't really know anything about the various tape form factors. I
can recognize 9-track :-) and I can recognize QIC cartridges, but
beyond that I'm at a loss. Oh yeah, I can also recognize audio and
video cassettes :-).
Depending on what OS you run, you may want a real QBUS
ethernet card.
Its got VMS on it and I wasn't planning on changing that. I was
actually interested in learning a little about VMS since I never used
it.
BTW, the male-HD50 "SCSI" connector on the
4000/300 is NOT SCSI, it's
DSSI, [...]
Right. This is the connector on the far left. However, this machine
has another card adjacent to the slot with the 2 DSSI connectors that
has what looks like a SCSI connector. I have to inspect the machine
more carefully to identify it for certain.
You might have a QBUS SCSI card though. KZQSA's
are somewhat common on
the pedestal VAX 4000's for controlling a CDROM drive.... note that
while that works OK with VMS, it isn't supported as far as I know under
NetBSD, etc, and the interface was designed poorly enough that you
can't reliably run more than about 1 (or maybe 2) device(s) off of it.
Yeah, my guess was that it would be a SCSI controller for a CD-ROM.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
4:19 p.m.
Richard wrote:
Right. This is the connector on the far left.
However, this machine
has another card adjacent to the slot with the 2 DSSI connectors that
has what looks like a SCSI connector. I have to inspect the machine
more carefully to identify it for certain.
Many moons ago someone I know mistook the connector on a CXY08
(multiple serial line card) for a SCSI-1 connector! So do
check carefully.
Antonio
--
Antonio carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
8:25 p.m.
In article <000f01c622d7$607cea30$5b01a8c0 at pc1>,
"a.carlini at ntlworld.com" <arcarlini at iee.org> writes:
Richard wrote:
Let me check exactly what's there: it has the two DSSI bus connectors on
the console panel and the two connectors at the far left for DSSI bus 0.
There are two covered slots and then a slot with two identical connectors
that look like SCSI connectors. In between them is an MMJ connector.
The board has a label on it that says MUA on the bottom and '2' on the
top. I'm guessing this is a VMS device designator for 2 device units,
with device one on the bottom and device 2 on the top.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
Right. This is the connector on the far left.
However, this machine
has another card adjacent to the slot with the 2 DSSI connectors that
has what looks like a SCSI connector. I have to inspect the machine
more carefully to identify it for certain.
Many moons ago someone I know mistook the connector on a CXY08
(multiple serial line card) for a SCSI-1 connector! So do
check carefully.
9:48 p.m.
On Thursday 26 January 2006 23:25, Richard wrote:
In article <000f01c622d7$607cea30$5b01a8c0 at
pc1>,
"a.carlini at ntlworld.com" <arcarlini at iee.org> writes:
Are there any markings on the board? It's a lot easier to identify boards by
name/number, than by general physical description...
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
Richard wrote:
Let me check exactly what's there: it has the two DSSI bus connectors on
the console panel and the two connectors at the far left for DSSI bus 0.
There are two covered slots and then a slot with two identical connectors
that look like SCSI connectors. In between them is an MMJ connector.
The board has a label on it that says MUA on the bottom and '2' on the
top. I'm guessing this is a VMS device designator for 2 device units,
with device one on the bottom and device 2 on the top. Right. This is the connector on the far left.
However, this machine
has another card adjacent to the slot with the 2 DSSI connectors that
has what looks like a SCSI connector. I have to inspect the machine
more carefully to identify it for certain.
Many moons ago someone I know mistook the connector on a CXY08
(multiple serial line card) for a SCSI-1 connector! So do
check carefully.
11:06 p.m.
In article <200601270048.07352.pat at computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
Are there any markings on the board? It's a lot
easier to identify boards by
name/number, than by general physical description...
It doesn't have any markings on the exterior spine like the TK70 controller.
component side:
cmd technology, inc
chips:
cqd-443/tm
amd mach130-15jc 2183mpe
jumpers marked "diff" "single", 2 sets
solder side
cqd-440-000 a
a/w pcx-440-00 rev.a00
brd pcf-440-00 rev.a00
b70-23741-01 rev.a3
The "single"/"diff" jumpers (single-ended, differential) lead me to
believe that this is indeed a SCSI card. However, it sure would be
nice to know its official model number. I'm guessing its CQD-440.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
4:56 p.m.
If by
"proprietary DEC formfactor", you mean "looks like a DLT tape",
then yes.
I don't really know anything about the various tape form factors. I
can recognize 9-track :-) and I can recognize QIC cartridges, but
beyond that I'm at a loss. Oh yeah, I can also recognize audio and
video cassettes :-).
2:59 p.m.
Richard wrote:
A quick google didn't turn up any obvious
discussion of the media.
Next time avoid google.cn and try google.com :-)
Antonio
--
Antonio carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
3:01 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and controller,
or get a CD-ROM
hooked in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the
effort in this day and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes.
Sadly, TK50's are still worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11.
Am I missing something? Is TK70 media actually tougherto
find that TK50 media? I've got a healthy supply of both
(and I don't use either for backup) but this is the first
time I've heard anyone suggest "TK70 bad, TK50 good"!
Antonio
--
Antonio carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
3:12 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
It has been my experience that TK70 media is a lot harder to find than TK50
media (I have 2-3 large boxes of TK50's, but only about 8 TK70's).
Zane
Might be easier to find a TK50 drive, and
controller, or get a CD-ROM
hooked in there. I have to question weather a TK70 is worth the
effort in this day and age, unless you're trying to *read* tapes.
Sadly, TK50's are still worth the trouble, at least on a PDP-11.
Am I missing something? Is TK70 media actually tougherto
find that TK50 media? I've got a healthy supply of both
(and I don't use either for backup) but this is the first
time I've heard anyone suggest "TK70 bad, TK50 good"!
Antonio
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18 comments
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