18 May
2009
18 May
'09
2:17 p.m.
Well, not really. I'm giving up most of my electronics and computer
stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding again,
and I need the space (and cash of course!).
I'll be listing some of the high-dollar stuff on Ebay, but most of it
will go on VCM for free or peanuts. Details and pictures will come later;
this is just a high-level teaser.
If there's something you want, hit me off-list and we'll discuss.
HUGE points and discounts for local pickup or if I can drop it off at
Craters & Freighters.
DEC stuff:
PDP-11/84 - ethernet, TU80 interface, and a CMD SCSI adapter. IIRC,
1024KW memory. It's not been run since last summer because all the foam
went to dust during the winter and I haven't had time to clean it up.
PDP-11/84 chassis - untested
PDP-11/44 - actually 3 of them, one without a front panel. 2 were in
production up to 2003, none have been run since then. email for board
lists, but all have at least 512KW memory and some kind of storage.
PDP-11/04 - programmer's front panel, 32KW core, ALU board, VT220.
works from programmer's keypad, but I never got the bus grants sorted out.
Several Unibus epansion chassis.
3 TU80 tape drives. All tested working in 2007.
Alpha PC 164LX - 384MB, 533MHz proc, fully working. 300W Sparkle PSU
if you want it.
VAXStation 4000/90
VS4000/60 - I think I have 2 of these
Amiga stuff:
Several A500s w/ various ROM levels
A3000 with Cyberstorm 68060, Prometheus PCI board, 3.1 ROMs
lots of software in box
Atari
A couple of 520s and 1040s
Mega STE w/ 4MB and SCSI drive
Other:
A bunch of SGI R10000 Indigo^2s
Several R10K Octanes
133MHz BeBox with 4MB Matrox Millenium, 4GB disk, 192MB RAM, TV
tuner, and a lot of software. Excellent cosmetic condition.
Please let me know off-list if you want to nab any of that.
Also, unfortunately, past experience here dictates that I say this:
please don't be insulting. Although I don't expect to *get* it, I do have
a fair clue what each piece is worth.
Doc
18 May
18 May
2:51 p.m.
Doc wrote:
Well, not really. I'm giving up most of my
electronics and computer
stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding again,
and I need the space (and cash of course!).
I'll be listing some of the high-dollar stuff on Ebay, but most of it
will go on VCM for free or peanuts. Details and pictures will come
later; this is just a high-level teaser.
If there's something you want, hit me off-list and we'll discuss.
HUGE points and discounts for local pickup or if I can drop it off at
Craters & Freighters.
Fixing the total-newbie mistake:
"Local" is in Austin, Texas.
Doc
3:03 p.m.
Standard question applies... where's it located?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
3:34 p.m.
Richard wrote:
Standard question applies... where's it located?
Swear I just posted that clarification....
It's all located in Austin Texas.
I should also have mentioned that I'll take Foredom handpieces and
tools, jeweler's torch and/or oxy-acetylene gauges, a precision drill
press, tabletop mill or lathe, or a good stationary belt sander in
trade. If it says Craftsman, Ryobi, Jet, or Delta on it, it's not what
I'm talking about. ;)
Doc
19 May
19 May
8:33 a.m.
I should also have mentioned that I'll take
Foredom handpieces and
tools, jeweler's torch and/or oxy-acetylene gauges, a precision drill
press, tabletop mill or lathe, or a good stationary belt sander in
trade. If it says Craftsman, Ryobi, Jet, or Delta on it, it's not what
I'm talking about. ;)
I may soon have an O2 concentrator available, but shipping would be
prohibitive, for either of us.
--
James -
12:39 p.m.
New subject: Update Re: With great sorrow
First, I promised a couple of folks a response or action last night,
but we had a lost kitten incident. As it's my wife's kitten, everything else
ground to a screeching halt. (The cat in question showed up this morning
healthy, happy, and completely clueless). Anyhow, it put me a day behind.
Second, "Wow!"
I did not expect the kind of response I'm getting. I've gotten *many*
inquiries about the PDP-11s, the VS4000/90 and the Amigas, and I've gotten
quite a few queries about the rest.
Y'all please be patient. I'm still sorting and collating. If you've
asked questions or made offers I'll respond ASAP, but it's going to take
a couple of days.
The BeBox is sold, pending payment, as is the PDP-11/04. Thank you,
gentlemen!
The PDP-11/44 without front panel is committed to a collection.
Doc Shipley
20 May
20 May
8:23 p.m.
New subject: Update Re: With great sorrow
Doc wrote:
First, I promised a couple of folks a response or
action last
night, but we had a lost kitten incident. As it's my wife's kitten,
everything else ground to a screeching halt. (The cat in question
showed up this morning healthy, happy, and completely clueless).
Anyhow, it put me a day behind.
Second, "Wow!"
I did not expect the kind of response I'm getting. I've gotten
*many* inquiries about the PDP-11s, the VS4000/90 and the Amigas, and
I've gotten quite a few queries about the rest.
Y'all please be patient. I'm still sorting and collating. If
you've asked questions or made offers I'll respond ASAP, but it's
going to take a couple of days.
The BeBox is sold, pending payment, as is the PDP-11/04. Thank
you, gentlemen!
:-( (that was one I mentioned in my last mail that I was interested
in) (The BeBox
that is)
I'll watch for a reply to that mail indicating which are still available.
I didn't include offers, as I honestly have no idea what is fair, and I
don't want to
be insulting. (However, if you want offers anyway because you don't
want to name
a price, just let me know and I'll do my best and try not to be
insulting :-) ).
-- Curt
The PDP-11/44 without front panel is committed to a collection.
Doc Shipley
1:32 a.m.
At 1:17 PM -0500 5/18/09, Doc wrote:
Well, not really. I'm giving up most of my
electronics and
computer stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that
sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding
again, and I need the space (and cash of course!).
Congratulations! The best of luck on your road to recovery!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
3:09 p.m.
Well, not
really. I'm giving up most of my electronics and
computer stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that
sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding
again, and I need the space (and cash of course!).
Congratulations! The best of luck on your road to recovery!
4 p.m.
At 8:09 PM +0100 5/20/09, Tony Duell wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting it would be a Good Thing if we all gave up
playing with our (classic computer) toys?
Maybe... I've said in the past that I view this as an unhealthy hobby.
We're moving into our new house this week, and once we get moved in
we'll be emptying the 10x25' storage unit that houses the bulk of my
remaining "computer junk". It will be interesting to see in the long
run how much of it I get rid of. I definitely want to trim down the
collection, the problem being that some of the stuff is spares for
systems that I want to keep. I honestly have no clue as to how much
stuff falls into the "no interest/use" category, and how much into
the keep category. In any case a lot of what I get rid of will be
going to the library for the one project I have for them.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Well, not really. I'm giving up most of my
electronics and
computer stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that
sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding
again, and I need the space (and cash of course!).
Congratulations! The best of luck on your road to recovery!
6:35 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 8:09 PM +0100 5/20/09, Tony Duell wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting it would be a Good Thing if we all gave up
playing with our (classic computer) toys?
Maybe... I've said in the past that I view this as an unhealthy hobby.
We're moving into our new house this week, and once we get moved in
we'll be emptying the 10x25' storage unit that houses the bulk of my
remaining "computer junk". It will be interesting to see in the long
run how much of it I get rid of. I definitely want to trim down the
collection, the problem being that some of the stuff is spares for
systems that I want to keep. I honestly have no clue as to how much
stuff falls into the "no interest/use" category, and how much into the
keep category. In any case a lot of what I get rid of will be going to
the library for the one project I have for them.
I'm finding it to be a pyramidal progression. I have All This Stuff,
and when I look at, say, an ISA FDC/MFM controller I think "I can't toss
this, it supports SSSD floppies!" And then I think "But wait, I'm
ditching all the Z80/8088/6502/whatever gear! I don't NEED SSSD
support! BuhBye!" Then I find the 80286 motherboard and I think "I
need this to run that MFM controll... Wait!"
And on and on.
This hobby has been not at all healthy for me. Fully 80% of my
*running* systems, let alone the projects, fail the 2-year rule**. At
some point I went from "inquisitive" to "acquisitive", and all the fun
went out.
Doc
** "If it hasn't been powered on in 2 years..."
Well, not really. I'm giving up most of my
electronics and
computer stuff, but while it's all been great fun, I'm nor all that
sad about it.
As elegant as this stuff can be, I finally get to start riding
again, and I need the space (and cash of course!).
Congratulations! The best of luck on your road to recovery! 
6:57 p.m.
On 20 May 2009 at 15:44, Fred Cisin wrote:
Sometimes you can get a little behind. Recently, I was going through
a stack of floppy mailers, deciding what old disks to toss when I
came across a couple of unopened ones. One contained not a floppy,
but a US Secret Service lapel pin and a note of thanks from the
agent. He died a couple of years ago--and I never knew that he'd
sent me the gift. Sometimes the stuff does get in the way--and I'm
not a collector.
--Chuck
if it
hasn't been used in a year, get rid
GF said that. I handed her the fire extinguisher.
She's gone. The junk is still here. 
6:59 p.m.
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I have books on the shelf that I haven't read in two years - OTOH,
just this week I've been re-reading a science fiction series that I
know I first bought more than 15 years ago.
I can understand the "1 year, 2 year..." rule in principle, but I
would never pick a hard date for anything for myself and say "this
needs to go" merely because of age.
I'm much more likely to thin based on what's interesting than when it
was last powered on. I go in bursts on things. I also flit and
dabble. Several times a year, I finish projects that I started more
than 5 years ago. So far, the longest time between start and finish
is somewhere around 22 years (porting "Zork I" to the PET). I do
finish old projects, just not fast enough to please some people.
-ethan
if it
hasn't been used in a year, get rid
GF said that. ?I handed her the fire extinguisher.
She's gone. ?The junk is still here.
8:04 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I can understand the "1 year, 2 year..."
rule in principle, but I
would never pick a hard date for anything for myself and say "this
needs to go" merely because of age.
I'm much more likely to thin based on what's interesting than when it
was last powered on. I go in bursts on things. I also flit and
dabble. Several times a year, I finish projects that I started more
than 5 years ago. So far, the longest time between start and finish
is somewhere around 22 years (porting "Zork I" to the PET). I do
finish old projects, just not fast enough to please some people.
Oh, yeah, no doubt. I'm keeping a couple that I haven't run in 5
years or more, and getting rid of a bunch that have been powered up in
the last few months.
The "2-year rule" is more of a mnemonic than a timer, if that makes
any sense.
Doc
8:28 p.m.
is somewhere around 22 years (porting "Zork
I" to the PET). I do
finish old projects, just not fast enough to please some people.
Wow!
I have some projects that are over 40 years old,
and more than a few that won't be done when I die.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:01 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
is somewhere
around 22 years (porting "Zork I" to the PET). I do
finish old projects, just not fast enough to please some people.
Wow!
I have some projects that are over 40 years old,
and more than a few that won't be done when I die.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:12 p.m.
is somewhere
around 22 years (porting "Zork I" to the PET). I do
finish old projects, just not fast enough to please some people.
Wow!
I have some projects that are over 40 years old,
and more than a few that won't be done when I die.
20 May
20 May
8:56 p.m.
At 6:59 PM -0400 5/20/09, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have books on the shelf that I haven't read in
two years - OTOH,
just this week I've been re-reading a science fiction series that I
know I first bought more than 15 years ago.
I would never apply such a rule to things like Books, Comics, or
gaming stuff. I may go well beyond 5-10 years between messing with a
RPG or Wargame, but I sure wouldn't want to get rid of the stuff
between those times. OTOH, if I were to get rid of all my Warhammer
40k stuff I'd recoup a disturbing amount of space.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
9:51 p.m.
I guess for me its different because my intention always was to create
a physically visitable museum.
I'm making progress on that front. We're moving to a new warehouse
that has enough space that at least I can do a "visible storage" style
exhibit. I'm musing on how best to present the collection.
I was thinking of creating an audio tour that people could listen to
on their portable MP3 players?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
10:18 p.m.
At 7:51 PM -0600 5/20/09, Richard wrote:
I guess for me its different because my intention
always was to create
a physically visitable museum.
I'm making progress on that front. We're moving to a new warehouse
that has enough space that at least I can do a "visible storage" style
exhibit. I'm musing on how best to present the collection.
The museum intent was one that I had years ago, it will be partially
realized when we finally get a building for the library, as part of
my collection will be part of a physical exhibit to go with the
computer history section the library has which I've been building
over the years, and other people have donated stuff for.
Of course computer history, at least at this point, is simply a small
part of the libraries collection. Maybe 1-2%, but it's still very
large, and very DEC oriented. Much of what I've kept are my VMS
manuals and 8-bit doc's, at some point they'll go to the library as
well.
I was thinking of creating an audio tour that people
could listen to
on their portable MP3 players?
That's actually an interesting idea, but how would they get the tour
loaded? They'd just about have to do it prior to visiting.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
11:04 p.m.
New subject: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
In article <p06240806c63a69751ede(a)[192.168.1.199]>9]>,
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> writes:
Richard (legalize at xmission.com) wrote:
Well, for starters I'd probably get some used RIOs off ebay that are
preloaded with the MP3. Supply your own headphones? I don't want to
have grungy earbuds that people have to use.
Lots of people have phones that can play an MP3 audio file if it is
loaded onto the phone. USB/Bluetooth from a server would be an
option.
Maybe if it was a series of MP3 files, one for each 'station', then
you could skip past bits that aren't interesting to you. Static
museums with printed text placards are kinda boring to me, particular
with computers unless you're a real geek. But hey, that's what most
of the CHM is, considering that visible storage takes up most of the
floor space.
With computer graphics, its ultimately about interactivity, but
everyone's gotta start somewhere and a static exhibit with
interpretation is where most of us start. I have a web site, but I'm
not happy with the CMS software I'm currently using (DotNetNuke), so
I'm looking for something better. That's why I haven't invested much
time in putting information into it. I have an alternate system I'm
evaluating but haven't had a chance to get much further than obtain
the software.
I'm thinking the museum will probably proceed in this form of
evolution of the interpretation:
- "Visible Storage" with pamphlet highlighting elements from the
collection.
- Expand the pamphlet into booklet form. Booklet contents on the web
site with elaboration.
- Add interpretive audio tour, single MP3 about ~15 minutes of listening.
- Enhance audio tour with numbered stations, one MP3 per station,
varying amounts of time per station, about an hour of total listening.
- Add some interactive stations exploring graphics of different
periods. These would most likely be SGI octanes (since I have an
abundant number of them) with emulation software showcasing earlier
period experiences. Include some form of multistation networked
gaming.
- Enhance interactive stations with playback of historical footage
(animations, shorts, films, etc.). Increase period experiences
(really this could go on for quite some time).
- Enhance animation/short film experience with a small theatre seating
15-30 people, with an interactive kiosk allowing the participants to
queue up films of interest, otherwise it cycles through random films
as long as someone is in the theatre.
All of this will be colocated with my friend's arcade game collection,
so realistically all the boring stuff listed above will be riding on
the coattails of the free arcade :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
I was thinking of creating an audio tour that
people could listen to
on their portable MP3 players?
That's actually an interesting idea, but how would they get the tour
loaded? They'd just about have to do it prior to visiting.
11:49 p.m.
New subject: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Wed, 20 May 2009, Richard wrote:
Well, for starters I'd probably get some used RIOs
off ebay that are
preloaded with the MP3. Supply your own headphones? I don't want to
have grungy earbuds that people have to use.
sell cheap earbuds. They're negligible cost, and could make you a buck.
sell preloaded MP3 players
21 May
21 May
5:54 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 21:04 -0600, Richard wrote:
In article
<p06240806c63a69751ede(a)[192.168.1.199]>9]>,
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> writes:
Why bother? You can pick up el-cheapo MP3 players for pennies these
days. Unless you want to get people into the classic computing spirit
with a classic MP3 player (the original Rio can't be far off on-topic by
now...)
Richard (legalize at xmission.com) wrote:
Well, for starters I'd probably get some used RIOs off ebay that are
preloaded with the MP3. Supply your own headphones? I don't want to
have grungy earbuds that people have to use. I was thinking of creating an audio tour that
people could listen to
on their portable MP3 players?
That's actually an interesting idea, but how would they get the tour
loaded? They'd just about have to do it prior to visiting. Maybe if it was a series of MP3 files, one for each
'station', then
you could skip past bits that aren't interesting to you. Static
museums with printed text placards are kinda boring to me, particular
with computers unless you're a real geek. But hey, that's what most
of the CHM is, considering that visible storage takes up most of the
floor space.
Infrared headphones, and a player at every exhibit?
With computer graphics, its ultimately about
interactivity, but
everyone's gotta start somewhere and a static exhibit with
interpretation is where most of us start. I have a web site, but I'm
not happy with the CMS software I'm currently using (DotNetNuke), so
I'm looking for something better. That's why I haven't invested much
time in putting information into it. I have an alternate system I'm
evaluating but haven't had a chance to get much further than obtain
the software.
There are enough CMSes out there that I'm sure you can find one that you
like. DotNetNuke scares me a bit - from what I can tell, it's the
frankly rather horrible PHPNuke system rewritten in .NET and only
running on MS Windows servers - a recipe for disaster!
All of this will be colocated with my friend's
arcade game collection,
so realistically all the boring stuff listed above will be riding on
the coattails of the free arcade :-)
Sounds great!
Gordon
12:18 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
In article <1242899645.4200.102.camel at elric>,
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> writes:
There are enough CMSes out there that I'm sure you
can find one that you
like. DotNetNuke scares me a bit - from what I can tell, it's the
frankly rather horrible PHPNuke system rewritten in .NET and only
running on MS Windows servers - a recipe for disaster!
I get free server space for my current site from a Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice.
Free trumps ideology.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
12:24 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On May 21, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Richard wrote:
Well, if "ideology" is defined as "caring whether or not your
stuff runs".. ;)
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
There are
enough CMSes out there that I'm sure you can find one
that you
like. DotNetNuke scares me a bit - from what I can tell, it's the
frankly rather horrible PHPNuke system rewritten in .NET and only
running on MS Windows servers - a recipe for disaster!
I get free server space for my current site from a Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice.
Free trumps ideology.
3:24 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
In article <D14B24B3-AD93-4A0C-BA3B-7C72AE69F383 at neurotica.com>,
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
Well, if "ideology" is defined as
"caring whether or not your
stuff runs".. ;)
So predictable and not even mildly funny.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
3:27 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On May 21, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Richard wrote:
Yup. :) I'm replacing another one tomorrow. :)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Well, if
"ideology" is defined as "caring whether or not your
stuff runs".. ;)
So predictable and not even mildly funny. 
3:35 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was:
With great sorrow)
In article <D14B24B3-AD93-4A0C-BA3B-7C72AE69F383 at neurotica.com>,
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
Wow, this sounds very familiar - except that the argument I'm remembering was,
"REAL programmers use assembler." :-)
Well, if "ideology" is defined as
"caring whether or not your
stuff runs".. ;)
So predictable and not even mildly funny.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for
download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> 
4:48 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
> So predictable and not even mildly funny.
On Thu, 21 May 2009, William Donzelli wrote:
Microsoft bashing stopped being funny about 10 years
ago.
. . . but they keep creating more stuff to bash!
Nevertheless, traffic on this list should stick to bashing only VINTAGE
Microsoft product. The Microsoft cordless phone should qualify soon.
23 May
23 May
6:34 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2009, William Donzelli wrote:
> Microsoft bashing stopped being funny about
10 years ago.
. . . but they keep creating more stuff to bash!
Nevertheless, traffic on this list should stick to bashing only VINTAGE
Microsoft product. The Microsoft cordless phone should qualify soon.
Egad. That's a memory best left repressed...
I like your idea of bashing old Microsoft products. By way of example, Microsoft BASIC
was so poorly written that GOTO and GOSUB statements all started their scan for line
numbers from the top of the program. To me, it seems VERY simple to say "If the line
number to jump to is HIGHER than the current line number, start from here, otherwise start
from the beginning. Would have saved unknown trillions of clock cycles. AFAIK, they
NEVER fixed that little "oopsie." Back in CP/M days, with 8080s at 2 mHz, in an
interpreted language, cycles were so precious that people wrote all their most frequently
called subroutines at the beginning, and jumped around them. Also, comments took time to
ignore in each loop, so were generally stripped out. The combination made the code nearly
write-only. Ick.
Gordon Eubanks, author of BASIC-E and CBASIC, wrote a much better program. It compiled to
an intermediate file, a rather efficient coding, meaning that comments caused no delay to
the code, and references were set at compile time. Also, BASIC-E was public domain, and
CBASIC was only $150, while Microsoft BASIC was $450. Managers often bought software back
then, and when they saw the two, the comment was generally "We can't afford to
scrimp, get the expensive one." I told Gordon he'd probably be way richer if he
had on priced CBASIC at three times the price he chose. He agreed, but didn't look
too happy. Of course, we were in his excellent living room, looking over the Pacific
Palisades on Oahu, Hawaii, so it's not like he was hurting, but still.
Of course, if quality were the deciding factor, the Processor Technology Sol computer
would have ruled until the IBM PC gave it a run for its money... But, sadly, quality of
the product is somewhere around the fifth or sixth most important factor for the success
of a tech company. Coming from the engineering side, I always rooted for the outrageously
well designed products, such as the HPs until recently. It just left me continually in a
vaguely disappointed state of mind.
Warren
21 May
21 May
1:12 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
I get free server space for my current site from a
Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice.
Free trumps ideology.
Working in a .NET environment for free is still too expensive for me.
I would only touch it if I were getting paid, and paid more than I get
now for working with UNIX-friendly stuff. _Then_ it might be
cost-effective.
There's free-as-in-speech and free-as-in-beer... it's easy to get one
_or_ the other in a number of ways - it has to be both to make me
willing to change directions.
-ethan
3:22 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
In article <f4eb766f0905211012v2b5a4bd4m6cbaf66fb0078643 at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Richard <legalize
at xmission.com> wrote:
I'm not telling you to use .NET, so why do you point this out?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
I get free server space for my current site from
a Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice.
Free trumps ideology.
Working in a .NET environment for free is still too expensive for me.
4:37 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article
<f4eb766f0905211012v2b5a4bd4m6cbaf66fb0078643 at mail.gmail.com>,
? ?Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> ?writes:
And I'm not telling you that you can't. You asserted that "free
trumps ideology". I was responding with why that simplistic phrase
doesn't work for me, in large part because of how you seemed to be
using the word "free".
You can use .NET if you like, cost or no cost to you. I don't
consider only the monthly hosting charges as the be-all-end-all
definition of the costs, so merely getting free monthly hosting isn't
cheap enough for me to call "free".
-ethan
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Richard
<legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
I'm not telling you to use .NET, so why do you point this out? I get free server space for my current site from
a Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice.
Free trumps ideology.
Working in a .NET environment for free is still too expensive for me. 
4:50 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Ethan Dicks wrote:
You can use .NET if you like, cost or no cost to you.
I don't
consider only the monthly hosting charges as the be-all-end-all
definition of the costs, so merely getting free monthly hosting isn't
cheap enough for me to call "free".
I think being around tomorrow is the big thing. Take datasheets
for example ... try and find a free one online anymore.
-ethan
6:01 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On May 21, 2009, at 4:50 PM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Datasheets? As in component datasheets? What are you smoking,
Ben? I don't think I've ever seen anyone charge for them. I have
nearly three thousand datasheets as PDFs in my archive, all of which
were free.
There are, of course, those services which sell free things
(including datasheets) to people. Their customers must be pretty
gullible. But every component I've ever needed a datasheet for, I've
been able to find as a free PDF with little or no difficulty, usually
You can use
.NET if you like, cost or no cost to you. I don't
consider only the monthly hosting charges as the be-all-end-all
definition of the costs, so merely getting free monthly hosting isn't
cheap enough for me to call "free".
I think being around tomorrow is the big thing. Take datasheets
for example ... try and find a free one online anymore. from the manufacturer.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6:26 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Dave McGuire wrote:
There are, of course, those services which sell free
things (including
datasheets) to people. Their customers must be pretty gullible. But
every component I've ever needed a datasheet for, I've been able to find
as a free PDF with little or no difficulty, usually from the manufacturer.
That is my catch 22 ... If I knew the manufacturer ... then I could download them.
My favorite supplier tends list things like ... 74ls00 0.10 or 32kx8 ram 100ns
3.95.
Ben.
-Dave
11:45 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On May 21, 2009, at 6:26 PM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Oh good grief. Pretty much any manufacturer's datasheets will be
fine for parts as standardized as those. Functionality, pinouts, DC
specs, even timing parameters will be very close if not identical.
Just google "74LS00 datasheet" or "62256 datasheet" and you'll be
fine.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
There are,
of course, those services which sell free things
(including datasheets) to people. Their customers must be pretty
gullible. But every component I've ever needed a datasheet for,
I've been able to find as a free PDF with little or no difficulty,
usually from the manufacturer.
That is my catch 22 ... If I knew the manufacturer ... then I could
download them.
My favorite supplier tends list things like ... 74ls00 0.10 or
32kx8 ram 100ns 3.95.
22 May
22 May
12:17 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Dave McGuire wrote:
Oh good grief. Pretty much any manufacturer's
datasheets will be fine
for parts as standardized as those. Functionality, pinouts, DC specs,
even timing parameters will be very close if not identical. Just google
"74LS00 datasheet" or "62256 datasheet" and you'll be fine.
That is why I am using them. :)
-Dave
Grumbles at the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips ... No matter how you look at it
any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a 16 bit or less cpu.
PS. Now you know what kind of computer I am designing, but this is off topic since
only 1 off does not count as a classic computer unless it tubes or flip/chips[1]
used.
[1] generic module rather than DEC's product.
12:23 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On May 22, 2009, at 12:17 AM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
;)
Oh good
grief. Pretty much any manufacturer's datasheets will
be fine for parts as standardized as those. Functionality,
pinouts, DC specs, even timing parameters will be very close if
not identical. Just google "74LS00 datasheet" or "62256
datasheet" and you'll be fine.
That is why I am using them. :) Grumbles at the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips ... No
matter how
you look at it
any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a 16 bit or less
cpu.
PS. Now you know what kind of computer I am designing, but this is
off topic since
only 1 off does not count as a classic computer unless it tubes or
flip/chips[1] used.
What sort of density are you looking for? I've seen some really
nice 16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a DRAM
controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide DRAM chips.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
12:45 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Dave McGuire wrote:
What sort of density are you looking for? I've seen some really nice
16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a DRAM
controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide DRAM chips.
I am looking at about 32K 18 bit word memory on small single board
computer, some thing around the size of a PDP 8/e in functionality but 18 rather
than 12 bits.
I am looking to add modern features (1968 ish) like character addressable
memory, Stack and Index registers as well as # data.
Memory, Uart and CPU I can get on one PCB as well as simple IDE interface.
The other PCB will be the 18 bit front panel with the MAR,MBR and AC displayed
connected via ribbon cable.
Ben.
-Dave
Ps.
Since this is a small computer, hardware support of floating point is NOT a
option. :)
5:28 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On May 22, 2009, at 12:45 AM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
You could probably interface something like an 8087 to that.
Their architecture is actually kinda nice, IMO.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
What sort of
density are you looking for? I've seen some really
nice 16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a
DRAM controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide
DRAM chips.
I am looking at about 32K 18 bit word memory on small single board
computer, some thing around the size of a PDP 8/e in functionality
but 18 rather than 12 bits.
I am looking to add modern features (1968 ish) like character
addressable
memory, Stack and Index registers as well as # data.
Memory, Uart and CPU I can get on one PCB as well as simple IDE
interface.
The other PCB will be the 18 bit front panel with the MAR,MBR and
AC displayed
connected via ribbon cable.
Ben.
-Dave
Ps.
Since this is a small computer, hardware support of floating point
is NOT a
option. :)
5:36 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Dave McGuire wrote:
On May 22, 2009, at 12:45 AM, bfranchuk at
jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
You could probably interface something like an 8087 to that. Their
architecture is actually kinda nice, IMO.
Unlikely , but the 8087 sold a lot PC's. I have Knuth's books so I can at
least write some floating point software. Ben.
What
sort of density are you looking for? I've seen some really
nice 16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a DRAM
controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide DRAM chips.
I am looking at about 32K 18 bit word memory on small single board
computer, some thing around the size of a PDP 8/e in functionality but
18 rather than 12 bits.
I am looking to add modern features (1968 ish) like character addressable
memory, Stack and Index registers as well as # data.
Memory, Uart and CPU I can get on one PCB as well as simple IDE
interface.
The other PCB will be the 18 bit front panel with the MAR,MBR and AC
displayed
connected via ribbon cable.
Ben.
-Dave
Ps.
Since this is a small computer, hardware support of floating point is
NOT a
option. :) -Dave
5:55 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On May 22, 2009, at 5:36 PM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Have you seen the uM-FPU series of chips? They're not fast, but
they'll give you floating point. I have one of those on one of my
Z80 SBCs. They're pretty neat, and damn easy to interface. You
should check them out if you haven't already.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
You could
probably interface something like an 8087 to that.
Their architecture is actually kinda nice, IMO.
Unlikely , but the 8087 sold a lot PC's. I have Knuth's books so I
can at
least write some floating point software. Ben.
1:06 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On 22 May 2009 at 0:23, Dave McGuire wrote:
Got a bunch of the Inmos chips, if you're interested.
I'm sure you know that you can get modern DRAM in x72, x36 and x18
configurations quite readily.
Heh, I remember needing a very fast SRAM for a bankswitching memory
controller back in the 70's. I used a Fairchild 64x9 bipolar SRAM,
grumbling that what I really needed was a x8. The bugger drank about
a watt. I think they were available in 256x9 also. At that time,
the speeds were considered to be very fast (60 nsec), but would be
laughable now.
--Chuck
On May 22, 2009, at 12:17 AM, bfranchuk at
jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Grumbles at
the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips ... No matter how
you look at it any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a
16 bit or less cpu. PS. Now you know what kind of computer I am
designing, but this is off topic since only 1 off does not count as
a classic computer unless it tubes or flip/chips[1] used.
What sort of density are you looking for? I've seen some really
nice 16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a DRAM
controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide DRAM
chips.
1:56 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 22 May 2009 at 0:23, Dave McGuire wrote:
Got a bunch of the Inmos chips, if you're interested.
I'm sure you know that you can get modern DRAM in x72, x36 and x18
configurations quite readily.
I suspect if I dig hard I can find 9 bit wide static ram of some kind,
but with the low cost of 32KBx8 ram I can waste 7 out of 8 bits.
I dont' need a tiny PCB so I have room to use for that. My front panel
needs a bit of work so it is not too wide, so hopefully both PCB's can
be about 11"x8".
On May 22, 2009, at 12:17 AM, bfranchuk at
jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Grumbles
at the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips ... No matter how
you look at it any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a
16 bit or less cpu. PS. Now you know what kind of computer I am
designing, but this is off topic since only 1 off does not count as
a classic computer unless it tubes or flip/chips[1] used.
What sort of density
are you looking for? I've seen some really
nice 16Kx1 SRAM chips made by Inmos. Or you could implement a DRAM
controller in your FPGA and do it that way, with 1-bit-wide DRAM
chips. Heh, I remember needing a very fast SRAM for a
bankswitching memory
controller back in the 70's. I used a Fairchild 64x9 bipolar SRAM,
grumbling that what I really needed was a x8. The bugger drank about
a watt. I think they were available in 256x9 also. At that time,
the speeds were considered to be very fast (60 nsec), but would be
laughable now.
While memory from the 70's time frame is not missed unless you need
spares, what surprized me is all the odd custom chips that came out
about that time for bit slice and fancy control logic. Custom mask programed
roms too, but most of what I noticed from that era is surplus calculator stuff.
Ben.
--Chuck
4:23 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
On Thu, 21 May 2009, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
>>> Grumbles at the lack of 9 bit wide ram
chips ... No matter how
are 9 bit SIMMs becoming hard to find??
I suspect if I dig hard I can find 9 bit wide static
ram of some kind,
but with the low cost of 32KBx8 ram I can waste 7 out of 8 bits.
Would it make sense to use 3, thereby giving you 24 bit wide?
You could either use 18 of the 24, or implement some sort of ECC with the
"extra" 6 bits
5:23 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Fred Cisin wrote:
Would it make sense to use 3, thereby giving you 24
bit wide?
You could either use 18 of the 24, or implement some sort of ECC with the
"extra" 6 bits
Static ram is cheap...I only need 64KB of 9 bit memory and some EEPROM for
bootstraps.
ECC is best with Dram since in the general case you can refresh and scrub and
clean your memory.
Did any of the LISP machines do garbage collection with refresh?
Ben.
2:51 a.m.
New subject: 18b computers (was: something much longer and unrelated)
[changed the subject line due to drift]
bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
...
Grumbles at the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips
If solving that problem is a hurdle, you have much bigger problems that
you don't know about yet. :-)
... No matter how you look at it
any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a 16 bit or less cpu.
I think you are in love with the idea more than an actual computer.
It is trivial to imagine an anemic 18b computer that doesn't compare
well to a decent 16 bitter.
I worked on/helped design a CPU that used 9b bytes, with a 72b word
size. We sold a few million chips, which in the market we were in was a
miserable failure (this was in the mid 90s). The company was Chromatic
Research, and the first chip was called MPACT 1. That was followed up a
couple years later with MPACT 2.
The 9 bittedness came about because our memory system was based on
Rambus memory. We were one of the early adopters, due to the fact that
Chromatic Research and Rambus had a common founder, Mike Farmwald. At
the time, all Rambus parts were x9, so the 9th bit was supposedly "free"
and we might was well take advantage of it.
Most operations had an option of operating on eight 9b fields, four 18b
fields, or two 36b fields. The video system had a 666 pixel format.
MPEG en/decode was viewed as an important (primary even) feature, and
forming differences of two 8b components leads to a signed 9b number, so
it seemed like a good idea at the time.
The 9b aspect was a real burden that made many different aspects of the
design more complicated, sometimes in small ways, sometimes in large
ways. The main nice thing about it was it did give a bit of luxury to
encoding the instruction set.
One of the bigger pains caused by the 9b factor was that Rambus memory
carried a huge premium over regular DRAM, but it wasn't possible to
design out the Rambus interface.
Another problem caused by the x9 organization was that SIMD partitioning
of the shifter and generating the corresponding control terms is vastly
simpler for a power of two width than for one that is a multiple of 9.
In the end, the 9b aspect was a minor irritation, and the company
crashed down for a host of other much more significant reasons. Still,
my point is that having been there, 18b isn't somehow magically better
than 16b, and comes with its own drawbacks.
3:59 a.m.
New subject: 18b computers
Jim Battle wrote:
[changed the subject line due to drift]
In the end, the 9b aspect was a minor irritation, and
the company
crashed down for a host of other much more significant reasons. Still,
my point is that having been there, 18b isn't somehow magically better
than 16b, and comes with its own drawbacks.
Well this is new 18 bit computer I have heard of ... I guess more on topic than
say a PC clone.
4:39 a.m.
New subject: 18b computers
On 22 May 2009 at 1:59, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Well this is new 18 bit computer I have heard of ... I
guess more on
topic than say a PC clone. > >
The A and B registers in a CDC 6000 series machine were 18 bits (CPU
word was 60 bits). Eventually, this created problems, when more than
128KW was available on a CPU (lots of code used signed addresses to
signify this and that. Conditional branches were performed on the
sign or contents of a register, not on a condition code, so it could
get a little tricky doing 18-bit unsigned comparisons).
There were, however, plenty of 36 bit mainframes from various
manufacturers.
--Chuck
23 May
23 May
10:57 a.m.
New subject: 18b computers (was: something much longer and unrelated)
----------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 01:51:34 -0500
From: frustum at pacbell.net
To:
Subject: 18b computers (was: something much longer and unrelated)
[changed the subject line due to drift]
bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
...
9th bit was often used for parity. I had a PC once with
parity that used 3 bit chips on the SIMMs.
Nicolet used a 20 bit computer as a balance between
dynamic range, for signal processing, and cost of core
memory ( although I wish it was 24 bits ).
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? goes with you.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria…
Grumbles at the lack of 9 bit wide ram chips
If solving that problem is a hurdle, you have much bigger problems that
you don't know about yet. :-)
... No matter how you look at it
any kind of 18 bit computer has power compared to a 16 bit or less cpu.
I think you are in love with the idea more than an actual computer.
It is trivial to imagine an anemic 18b computer that doesn't compare
well to a decent 16 bitter.
I worked on/helped design a CPU that used 9b bytes, with a 72b word
size. We sold a few million chips, which in the market we were in was a
miserable failure (this was in the mid 90s). The company was Chromatic
Research, and the first chip was called MPACT 1. That was followed up a
couple years later with MPACT 2.
The 9 bittedness came about because our memory system was based on
Rambus memory. We were one of the early adopters, due to the fact that
Chromatic Research and Rambus had a common founder, Mike Farmwald. At
the time, all Rambus parts were x9, so the 9th bit was supposedly "free"
and we might was well take advantage of it.
21 May
21 May
5:09 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
In article <f4eb766f0905211337h3f29efe0i35c1f695fd18c71 at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
And I'm not telling you that you can't. [...]
As usual for this list, the main question (museum interpretations) is
ignored, while instead I have to watch the usual suspects jump on
their anti-Microsoft bandwagon. Snoooooore.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
5:33 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
As usual for this list, the main question (museum
interpretations) is
ignored, while instead I have to watch the usual suspects jump on
their anti-Microsoft bandwagon. ? Snoooooore.
Well, if this is boring, you could try asking a Greek mailing list
about how to implement mp3-based audio museum tours and saying that
you can get the voice actors to do it in Turkish for free and see how
long that stays on topic.
-ethan
6:42 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
As usual for this list, the main question (museum
interpretations) is
ignored, while instead I have to watch the usual suspects jump on
their anti-Microsoft bandwagon. ? Snoooooore.
D'ya suppose that the topic drift away from "museum interpretations" might
have been helped along by somebody making a "free trumps ideology" remark
about .net ?
11:18 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
Ethan wrote...
I don't
consider only the monthly hosting charges as the be-all-end-all
definition of the costs, so merely getting free monthly hosting isn't
cheap enough for me to call "free".
But the classiccmp server..... ;)
Come on folks, we're not really going to go there are we? (there being an
extended microsoft sucks/doesntSuck discussion).
3:31 p.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations (was: With great sorrow)
On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 10:18 -0600, Richard wrote:
In article <1242899645.4200.102.camel at
elric>,
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> writes:
If it works for you, then great.
There are enough CMSes out there that I'm
sure you can find one that you
like. DotNetNuke scares me a bit - from what I can tell, it's the
frankly rather horrible PHPNuke system rewritten in .NET and only
running on MS Windows servers - a recipe for disaster!
I get free server space for my current site from a Windows based
outfit, so .NET is the platform of choice. Free trumps ideology.
Ideology doesn't come into it. I use what works for me. I've never
used Windows, so I stick with what I know.
Gordon
23 May
23 May
5:25 a.m.
New subject: OT-ish, Museums and MP3s Re: Museum interpretations
Richard wrote:
Free trumps ideology.
Amateur. Free *IS* ideology.
Warren
21 May
21 May
2:26 p.m.
From: Zane H. Healy
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:18 PM
At 7:51 PM -0600 5/20/09, Richard wrote:
> I guess for me its different because my intention always was to create
> a physically visitable museum.
[snip]
> I was thinking of creating an audio tour that
people could listen to
> on their portable MP3 players?
That's actually an interesting idea, but how would
they get the tour
loaded? They'd just about have to do it prior to visiting.
As a matter of fact, we discussed this exact scenario in my msueum exhibit
design class last Saturday. Many museums, like the Metropolitan in NYC,
are putting their tours into MP3s and podcasts for people to download prior
to their visit.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
(206) 342-2239
(206) 465-2916 cell
http://www.pdpplanet.org/
20 May
20 May
8:54 p.m.
At 5:35 PM -0500 5/20/09, Doc wrote:
This hobby has been not at all healthy for me.
Fully 80% of my
*running* systems, let alone the projects, fail the 2-year rule**.
At some point I went from "inquisitive" to "acquisitive", and all
the fun went out.
Doc
** "If it hasn't been powered on in 2 years..."
I like that rule! Of course I'd exempt a couple supporting systems
(only needed when getting software onto a system I use). That rule
may go into effect in two years. It wouldn't be fair to put it into
effect when I simply haven't had access to the machines.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
21 May
21 May
1:35 p.m.
Are you
seriously suggesting it would be a Good Thing if we all gave up
playing with our (classic computer) toys?
Maybe... I've said in the past that I view this as an unhealthy hobby.
We're moving into our new house this week, and once we get moved in
we'll be emptying the 10x25' storage unit that houses the bulk of my
remaining "computer junk". It will be interesting to see in the long
run how much of it I get rid of. I definitely want to trim down the
collection, the problem being that some of the stuff is spares for
systems that I want to keep. I honestly have no clue as to how much
stuff falls into the "no interest/use" category, and how much into
the keep category. In any case a lot of what I get rid of will be
going to the library for the one project I have for them.
I know that problem all too well. Several times I've had things which I
don't feel are particularly useful, but I keep them. And then one day
they turn out to be just the thing I need.
Examples ; Years ago I was given an HP9866A printer, it was being thrown
out, and the chap doing the clearout knew I liked HP stuff. So I accepted
it with thanks, not knowing what it was used with, what the interface
was, etc. And then perhaps 10 years later I was given an HP9830, which
has a built-in interface for just this printer. So of course, after
repairing the HP9830, I got the 9866 going too.
Or the time I was given and HP5055 'digital recorder' -- a numeric-only
strip printer. It sat in the cupboard for 15 years until I bought an
HP59301 HPIB-parallel interface on E-bay and relaised (after figuring out
connections, etc) that one of the devices it could directly drive was the
5055. S, again, the 5055 came out of said cupboard and got cleaned up,
repaired, etc
And an old Amstrad 'laptop' [1] (PPC640 IIRC) got pressed into service to
run the 'microtest' floppy disk test/alignment system. Another machine I
didn't know what I was going to use it for before I found that use.
[1] For people with big laps. It's actually wider than a PDP11 front panel!
-tony
20 May
20 May
5:05 p.m.
On Wed, 20 May 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting it would be a Good Thing
if we all gave up
playing with our (classic computer) toys?
Not until AFTER all of my storage areas are emptied
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5521
days inactive
5526
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64 comments
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