From: "Rob" <robert at irrelevant.com> retaliatory he and on ebay. I do exactly the same thing. As far as I'm concerned, the trade doesn't end when an item leaves my hands; the buyer still has the opportunity to behave like an idiot (or behave very well). I use wording almost exactly like Rob's. I know that once the buyer has placed feedback, the trade's done as far as they're concerned, so I can then place my feedback as the last step in the process; the buyer knows whether the entire trade has gone fine before I do. It seems to work quite well. Speaking of selling on eBay, how many people buy internationally? I expect shipping to kill any trades outside New Zealand, so I don't sell old computer gear on eBay, only on the biggest local auction site. Mike.

I don't mean to insult anyone here by my views, I'm certain that those of y'all here that have piped up that when you sell on ebay you don't leave feedback until the buyer does do not do it so you can leave retaliatory feedback. unfortunately there are a lot of sellers on ebay that do refuse to leave feedback until the buyer leaves feedback just for the sole purpose of leaving retaliatory feedback or having the threat of that hanging over the buyers head, and Ebay is notorious for doing nothing about retaliatory feedback in the past, even though it is against their rules. I went back and read the note from the seller and i forgot a few words. what the seller said was "as soon as you get the item, leave me positive feedback I'll do the same for you" so the way i read it the seller wants me to leave positive feedback as soon as i have the item in my hot (not so) little hands, no matter if it is as advertised or not. before I leave negative feedback for anyone I -try- to work it out with them via emails or on the phone. I guess what gets to me is the implied threat that even though I paid promptly that if I end up giving neutral of negative feedback that they are going to do the same, just because i gave them neutral or negative feedback. about a year ago there was an entire thread whacked off the ebay messageboards that started when someone complained that they were getting negative feedback very well) and his buyers were giving him neutral or negative feedback for the bad way that the item was packed and he asked how he could stop them. Not one person in the thread told him perhaps he should pack the items he was shipping properly, there were over 300 replies telling him to withhold feedback until the buyer posted and by doing that most buyers are going to give positive feedback for fear that he will besmirch the buyers good feedback scores with negatives.

If many is less than one percent* in your book, then OK, that is true. But... "Many" professional ebay sellers will have two accounts for tax reasons. For example, lets say that Bob is an antiques dealer, a one man show, like most are. He sells on Ebay, and follows all the rules for taxation (he would be a fool not to). His father dies, and he inherits the estate, so all his father's stuff is now his. He wants to sell off some of this stuff. If he uses his regular Ebay account to sell, he will have a lot of work figuring out what is taxable, both as income and sales tax. The stuff he inherits from his father, for the most part, would (mostly) not be subject to sales or income tax, unlike the goods he sells on Ebay for his business. The easy solution? Create another account for the sale of personal property. If Bob were to go thru an audit, the IRS would have a much easier time getting everything straight, and let Bob go. *There is a survey floating around concerning this. No, I am not going to look for it - I have better things to do. Please use care with that "many" word. -- Will

In article <F75A81D9-8E8F-4965-BA86-F8E48010D913 at colourfull.com>, Robert Borsuk <rborsuk at colourfull.com> writes: I'm sorry I brought it up. I thought people would like to know that they can give more detailed feedback now. Had I known that people would just use it as an excuse to rehash all their opinions about the way people (mis)use feedback, I wouldn't have mentioned it. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

I separate my buyer's account from my seller's account. I am able to leave feedback to sellers without worrying about my seller's account. vax, 9000

Quoting Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com>: I agree with you there, because if you do both on one account (and at one point, I do not know if it is the same currently, you couldn't have more than one account, unless you violated ebay's TOS) if someone hits you with negative feedback as a buyer and you sell on that account, generally people won't bother to look and see if your 97% feedback is because of buying or selling.

I buy internationally all the time, since most of the things I want are not available in England. I'm a little disapointed when I see the machine I've been looking for for years in another country, knowing that no way could I afford the shipping on it. But I am rather more annoyed when sellers won't ship internationally things that easily could be shipped -- handheld calculators, PCBs, etc. The shipping on those sorts of things is easily affordable. -tony

Andrew Burton wrote: There have been one or two times I've jumped on a deal on the other side of the Atlantic because I knew I could get big bucks for it over here. Like (item cost + transatlantic shipping) * 300%. Peace... Sridhar

On Thursday 24 May 2007 08:35, Cameron Kaiser wrote: So, just don't bother leaving feedback, if you don't want to risk getting negative feedback. As a seller, I think that it's completely illogical to leave feedback for someone before the transaction is over. It's generally not safe to assume that the party on the buying (or selling end for that matter[0]) is completely reasonable. This is ebay, not civilized society. :) But, what if the buyer has unreasonable demands, such as complaining about something silly[1] like using the original packaging to ship you a computer, which they didn't express until after you ship them the item. [0] I normally wouldn't single out someone, but beware of the ebay seller "classic.computers". I've been waiting almost 4 weeks for him to ship me something[2], because he refused to let me come and pick it up. He's being completely unresponsive, and taking well over a week to respond to each message I send him. I'm finally to the point of threatening him with negative feedback if he won't ship soon (something I've never had to do before to a legitimate seller). [1] There was a thread a couple months ago on here about a seller doing this. From my perspective, a functional device is much more important than worrying about the "damage" from putting a label on an old piece of cardboard. [2] http://search.ebay.com/280104933089 Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

Quoting Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org>: If the system worked properly you should not have to worry about retailiatory feedback, if, as a buyer I have done my part and paid promptly, then I should get feedback form the seller that I paid promptly. IF i leave negative feedback because the seller misrepresented the item, packed it improperly, or just generally jacked me around then the seller should not retaliate with negative feedback just because they got caught, and that is just what some sellers do, they get caught in any number of no-no's and then take it out on the person who caught them. and as to [1] I can see when someone is advertising "look, classic computer system, complete with original packaging!!" that in that case the packaging needs to be preserved as WELL as the equipment. by labeling directly onto the packaging it is lowering the value of the package as a whole. it has always been that a collectable item is worth more if it has it's original packaging and that packaging is in good condition, so if someone is advertising the packaging being there as part of the selling point of the auction then they should take care not to damage the packaging any further than it already is. Personally I do not buy old systems for the packaging or collecting as an investment generally, so I usually could care less about the packaging, although there are occasional exceptions to that rule. so, if one is advertising the packaging as part of the whole enchilada, then you should take precautions to preserve it, like bubble-wrapping the original packaging (with the equipment inside) and placing that into a slightly larger package for shipping. of course that is my opinion, your mileage may vary, things in the mirror may be closer than they appear.....

Tony Duell wrote: But then, if you were to leave negative feedback about someone and they didn't leave any feedback for you, wouldn't the negative they earned be hidden? Or would they give up the right to leave feedback after some amount of time, or something? Peace... Sridhar

On 5/24/07, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote: Never forget that eBay is in business for eBay. Your needs are irrelevant. -ethan