22 Jan
2007
22 Jan
'07
6:02 p.m.
On 22 Jan 2007 at 16:49, Fred Cisin wrote:
The AT started in 1984. Some areas (both geographic,
and social)
immediately went for it, and some put it off as long as they could, since
the IBM/MICROS~1 software didn't provide any real incentive to upgrade
other than high density drives and a little faster;
until Windoze 3.1 and OS/2.
More than a little faster, at least to my recollection. Something
like 3 times as fast. 16 bit disk I/O and a CPU with nearly 4 times
the transistor count of the 8088. A lot of folks who bought the
original 6 MHz PC AT discovered overclocking.
While you could find 8 and 9 MHz 8088/8086 systems, neither came
close to a 6 MHz AT in terms of performance. And if you were
adventuresome and clocked that PC AT at 12 or (I've heard it was
done) 20 MHz, the gains were breathtaking--and you had a convenient
place to cook lunch.
One thing that IBM did that really toasted me back then was messing
up on the 8237 DMA controller hookup such that memory-to-memory DMA
didn't work. It could have made the whole business of extended
memory use a lot simpler.
Cheers,
Chuck
23 Jan
23 Jan
11:30 a.m.
One thing that IBM did that really toasted me back
then was messing
up on the 8237 DMA controller hookup such that memory-to-memory DMA
didn't work. It could have made the whole business of extended
memory use a lot simpler.
I still think they should have used the 8089 'I/O coprocessor' which was
essentially a fancy DMA chip. That would have, for example, allowed DMA
transders to cross page bounadaries.
OK, there necver was an 80289 (or whatever), hut you can bet Intel would
have made one if there'd been a demand (read : It would have gone into
the IBM PC/AT).
-tony
2:04 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I agree it would have been nice, except it wasn't available when the PC
was being designed. Heck, the 8087 which appeared *before* the 8089
wasn't even available.
I wrote the 8087 support for the IBM Fortran compiler (actually a set of
library routines) to prove to IBM management that there was benefit to
having the 8087 as an option (they actually wanted to remove the
socket). And they needed something that would actually *use* the 8087.
One thing that
IBM did that really toasted me back then was messing
up on the 8237 DMA controller hookup such that memory-to-memory DMA
didn't work. It could have made the whole business of extended
memory use a lot simpler.
I still think they should have used the 8089 'I/O coprocessor' which was
essentially a fancy DMA chip. That would have, for example, allowed DMA
transders to cross page bounadaries.
OK, there necver was an 80289 (or whatever), hut you
can bet Intel would
have made one if there'd been a demand (read : It would have gone into
the IBM PC/AT).
The '286 was messed up enough that no one wanted to add additional junk
and risk the PC/AT schedule. Intel was doing well enough just trying to
get a working '286 going (and caused enough delays that IBM was *not*
happy) and it still shipped with "broken" '286 chips. Ahh, I remember
the sigma-sigma marked '286 chips! :-P
--
TTFN - Guy
30 Mar
30 Mar
1:37 p.m.
New subject: IBM FORTRAN 8087 support was Re: Is MSX on topic?
--- Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
I wrote the 8087 support for the IBM Fortran
compiler (actually a set of
library routines) to prove to IBM management that
there was benefit to
having the 8087 as an option (they actually wanted
to remove the
socket). And they needed something that would
actually *use* the 8087.
Hi. Yes an old post, but what prompted me was the
recent thread on FORTRAN compilers. Which IBM compiler
are we talking about? I do believe there were actually
2 IBM branded versions, one by M$ of course, and the
other (dubbed IBM Professional FORTRAN 1.0) was by
Ryan-McFarland, said to be a truly F77 compliant
implementation, unlike M$'s. At least by one MIT
graduate who used it, and also by it's said manual. Or
if IIRC "to the best of IBM's ability to understand
the spec" ;).
I was just curious :)
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OK, there necver was an 80289 (or whatever), hut
you can bet Intel would
have made one if there'd been a demand (read
: It
would have gone into
> the IBM PC/AT).
3:07 p.m.
New subject: IBM FORTRAN 8087 support was Re: Is MSX on topic?
Chris M wrote:
--- Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
At this point, I don't remember which one it was.
--
TTFN - Guy
I wrote the 8087 support for the IBM Fortran
compiler (actually a set of
library routines) to prove to IBM management that
there was benefit to
having the 8087 as an option (they actually wanted
to remove the
socket). And they needed something that would
actually *use* the 8087.
Hi. Yes an old post, but what prompted me was the
recent thread on FORTRAN compilers. Which IBM compiler
are we talking about? I do believe there were actually
2 IBM branded versions, one by M$ of course, and the
other (dubbed IBM Professional FORTRAN 1.0) was by
Ryan-McFarland, said to be a truly F77 compliant
implementation, unlike M$'s. At least by one MIT
graduate who used it, and also by it's said manual. Or
if IIRC "to the best of IBM's ability to understand
the spec" ;).
I was just curious :)
OK, there necver was an 80289 (or whatever), hut
you can bet Intel would
have made one if there'd been a demand (read
: It
would have gone into
> the IBM PC/AT).
> 
31 Mar
31 Mar
12:10 p.m.
New subject: SoCal garage cleaning, truck or dumpster
15 years of packratting a 2 car garage and a 10x35 storage unit full of
old computer stuff will be seriously trimmed over the next three weeks
to make room for a worse hobby, 2 old Porsche 928's.
I have commercial shelving in both garage and storage, some going up 10
feet or so, this is not a few boxes, its a few truck loads. Some stuff
is headed for a dumpster, cases of new old stock software still in the
bulky boxes, and not anything too exciting in the first place. Some
stuff will get condensed, out goes the bulky box, floppy and docs into a
single mass box. Middle aged PCs, compaq 486's I saved to play with
linux on, by the dozen. NOS Apple and mac repair parts, cables, stacks
of middle aged macs like 610, half a dozen LW II's.
I'm not just walking into the forest with a candle, nice, to me at least
stuff that doesn't take up much space I will find room for, but that
won't include a complete commodore system currently filling a good sized
box. I have two NOS specialty monitors, weird connections, a Sigma
LabView I think, I forget the other, but I will update once I dig in a
bit, and put some picts up on my website.
Email me, I am 40,000 messages behind, not joking, reading this list.
VERY little will be shipped, exceptions for good causes and old
commitments, like the DEC terminal promised to someone on this list.
Sooner much better than later, in 7 days I have to have 10 feet clear to
replace the tilt up garage door with an essential roll up. First whack
is going to be moving good stuff, and tossing junk like the old
software, but 6 month goal is cut to the bone and get rid of 10x35
storage unit's monthly cost.
I am not dropping the old computer hobby, but I have 20 boxes of Apple
13" monitor NOS service replacement deflection boards, 20 weird
AppleTalk network routers, and not enough room to play with it, just
store it.
Email me, visit lovely Orange county, take home booty.
10:31 p.m.
New subject: SoCal garage cleaning, truck or dumpster
Mike,
I'm in OC (Aliso Viejo) - please allow to rummage
through your wares. I don't work Mondays or Tuesdays.
Steve.
--- Mike Ford <mikeford at socal.rr.com> wrote:
15 years of packratting a 2 car garage and a 10x35
storage unit full of
old computer stuff will be seriously trimmed over
the next three weeks
to make room for a worse hobby, 2 old Porsche 928's.
I have commercial shelving in both garage and
storage, some going up 10
feet or so, this is not a few boxes, its a few truck
loads. Some stuff
is headed for a dumpster, cases of new old stock
software still in the
bulky boxes, and not anything too exciting in the
first place. Some
stuff will get condensed, out goes the bulky box,
floppy and docs into a
single mass box. Middle aged PCs, compaq 486's I
saved to play with
linux on, by the dozen. NOS Apple and mac repair
parts, cables, stacks
of middle aged macs like 610, half a dozen LW II's.
I'm not just walking into the forest with a candle,
nice, to me at least
stuff that doesn't take up much space I will find
room for, but that
won't include a complete commodore system currently
filling a good sized
box. I have two NOS specialty monitors, weird
connections, a Sigma
LabView I think, I forget the other, but I will
update once I dig in a
bit, and put some picts up on my website.
Email me, I am 40,000 messages behind, not joking,
reading this list.
VERY little will be shipped, exceptions for good
causes and old
commitments, like the DEC terminal promised to
someone on this list.
Sooner much better than later, in 7 days I have to
have 10 feet clear to
replace the tilt up garage door with an essential
roll up. First whack
is going to be moving good stuff, and tossing junk
like the old
software, but 6 month goal is cut to the bone and
get rid of 10x35
storage unit's monthly cost.
I am not dropping the old computer hobby, but I have
20 boxes of Apple
13" monitor NOS service replacement deflection
boards, 20 weird
AppleTalk network routers, and not enough room to
play with it, just
store it.
Email me, visit lovely Orange county, take home
booty.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
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23 Jan
23 Jan
2:08 p.m.
On 23 Jan 2007 at 19:30, Tony Duell wrote:
I still think they should have used the 8089 'I/O
coprocessor' which was
essentially a fancy DMA chip. That would have, for example, allowed DMA
transders to cross page bounadaries.
The 8089 was an odd duck, but the closest thing that Intel had going
to a smart channel processor.
IIRC, the 8089 had but two DMA channels, which migt have created some
problems seeing that the XT had 4 and the AT had 7. I would have
been delighted with something like an "82237" which would have given
24- or 32-bit contiguous addressability. Since the 80186 was already
in the works at that time, I imagine that Intel didn't feel any
particular pressing need to continute the IOP line.
It's my understanding that the 8089 went over like a lead dirigible.
I don't know of a single consumer-level product that used it.
Cheers,
Chuck
24 Jan
24 Jan
12:22 a.m.
On 24/1/07 03:32, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Do you know which ones? I've got several around here to look at, I didn't
think I'd seen an 8089 before but perhaps I'm wrong. Hells, if I'm wrong
about some of our customers wanting/needing component level repair I could
be wrong about *anything* :)
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
It's my understanding that the 8089 went over like a lead dirigible.
I don't know of a single consumer-level product that used it.
The Apricot computer has one...
12:34 a.m.
On 24/1/07 03:32, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Do you know which ones? I've got several around here to look at, I didn't
The oriignal Apricot, you knowm the one where the keyboard clips on the
bottom and you carry it like a briefcase, has one. There are 3 40 pin
chips in one corner of the mainboard. An 8086, and 8087 (optional) and an
8089.
IIRC, the Apricont F1 doesn't.
-tony
It's my understanding that the 8089 went over like a lead dirigible.
I don't know of a single consumer-level product that used it.
The Apricot computer has one...
25 Jan
25 Jan
10:13 a.m.
On 24/1/07 08:34, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Typical, the ones I've got here are F1, F10 and FP :) Will I remember to get
down to the garage at the weekend to have a look at the PC? Probably not, in
this weather!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
On 24/1/07 03:32, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Do you know which ones? I've got several around here to look at, I didn't
The oriignal Apricot, you knowm the one where the keyboard clips on the
bottom and you carry it like a briefcase, has one. There are 3 40 pin
chips in one corner of the mainboard. An 8086, and 8087 (optional) and an
8089.
IIRC, the Apricont F1 doesn't.
It's my understanding that the 8089 went over like a lead dirigible.
I don't know of a single consumer-level product that used it.
The Apricot computer has one...
6236
days inactive
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days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrism3667＠yahoo.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
tosteve＠yahoo.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk