21 Jul
1997
21 Jul
'97
5:59 p.m.
Fellow in SoCal's trying to get rid of some worthwhile-looking books.
Anyone interested?
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
I was surprised to receive no response whatsoever to my original post.
When
I started collecting PDPs, I grabbed all the documentation I could get my
hands
on. Maybe nobody runs RSTS any more. Maybe V9.0 manuals are too old. In
any
case, the manuals I described in my original post (below) go in the trash
if
not spoken for by Friday July 25.
----------
Greetings.
Unfortunately, my interest in PDP-11s exceeds my available storage. I
picked
up a partial set of RSTS/E manuals a while back, but find I now need the
space
they occupy.
These are the standard orange DEC binders, and most of the contents are
still
in shrink wrap. The partial set is as follows:
----------
System Management (Volume 2)
System Manager's Guide
System Usage (Volume 3)
System User's Guide
Guide to Writing Command Procedures
Utilities (Volume 4)
Utilities Reference Manual
Introduction to the EDT Editor
SORT/MERGE User's Guide
RUNOFF User's Guide
Utilities (Volume 4A)
EDT Editor Manual
Utilities (Volume 4B)
Task Builder Reference Manual
Programmer's Utilities Manual
RT11 Utilities Manual
TECO User's Guide
BASIC-PLUS (Volume 5)
BASIC-PLUS Language Manual
System Programming (Volume 6)
Programming Manual
MACRO Programming (Volume 7)
System Directives Manual
ODT Reference Manual
MACRO Programming (Volume 7A)
MACRO-11 Language Manual
RMS-11 MACRO Programmer's Guide
RMS (Volume 8)
RMS-11: An Introduction
RMS-11 User's Guide
RMS-11 Utilities
----------
These manuals are located in Southern CA. Shipping would be pretty
expensive,
and I would prefer not to have to pack them (e.g. preference granted to
those
who could pick them up).
I am not looking for much (if anything) in return for these; I really just
want them gone and suspect someone might need them. If you want me to
pack
and ship them, though, I will probably want something to offset my time
and
trouble (and shipping, of course). I am always looking for Q-bus
hardware,
and right now specifically for S-box (BA213) cabinet kits for a KA650 and
a
VCB02.
Please send email to slinker(a)primenet.com if interested (NOTE: The email
address in the header has an underscore "_" appended to foil spammers).
Jeff.
--
Jeff Shirley slinker(a)primenet.com
Remove the underscore ("_") from the end of my email address when
replying
** UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL/PROMOTIONAL EMAIL IS NOT ACCEPTED **
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ADDRESS ALTERED TO FOIL SPAMMERS: See below for address...
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin-at-wizards-dot-net http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam,
period..."
22 Jul
22 Jul
12:39 a.m.
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3:19 a.m.
New subject: Minis not "trendy" enough. (was:RSTS/E Manuals)
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Yet if I make
a mention that I have a front-panel IMSAI I get hundreds of emails
from collectors and pseudo-collectors-wannabes who would bend over backwards
to pay me good money for it. Are the only machines that
people collect trendy micros that have been featured in the "collectible"
column of the _LA Times_ and the like? Are classic minis, including PDP-11's
and DG mini's only items for the junk heap? (Outside the efforts of
me, Jeff Shirley, and a couple heroic folks in Rhode Island, that is?)
I can't speak for everyone, but for some of us the problem isn't that
PDP-11's aren't "trendy" enough, the problem is space. I would love to
have some classic minis, but I'm having a hard enough time storing (and
moving twice in the past 7 months) my collection of 30-odd micros. So...
If anyone is willing to give me free storage space in the Saskatoon area,
I'll drive down to BC and pick up a few of your minis you want to give
away! (And yes, I'll take an IMSAI too.)
Tim.
ttfn
srw
3:51 a.m.
New subject: Minis not "trendy" enough. (was:RSTS/E Manuals)
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Scott Walde wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I found an innovative solution! My PDP lives under my bed!
I have to go post a picture of this. The processor is sideways underneath
the headboard, the RX02 is facing out the side of the bed, and the rat's
nest of cables (And the EDSI harddisk) is in the middle. The terminal
connected to it is sitting on my dresser.
THE WALL
+-------------+
|**** 0 xxxx|
|**** 000 xxxx|
+---------xxxx+ **** = processor
0 = wires and misc.
xxxx = RX02
Yet if I make
a mention that I have a front-panel IMSAI I get hundreds of emails
from collectors and pseudo-collectors-wannabes who would bend over backwards
to pay me good money for it. Are the only machines that
people collect trendy micros that have been featured in the "collectible"
column of the _LA Times_ and the like? Are classic minis, including PDP-11's
and DG mini's only items for the junk heap? (Outside the efforts of
me, Jeff Shirley, and a couple heroic folks in Rhode Island, that is?)
I can't speak for everyone, but for some of us the problem isn't that
PDP-11's aren't "trendy" enough, the problem is space. I would love
to
have some classic minis, but I'm having a hard enough time storing (and
moving twice in the past 7 months) my collection of 30-odd micros. So... 
4:06 a.m.
New subject: Minis not "trendy" enough. (was:RSTS/E Manuals)
In message <Pine.LNX.3.95.970722091236.4817A-100000@walde> Tim wrote:
I can't speak for everyone, but for some of us the
problem isn't that
PDP-11's aren't "trendy" enough, the problem is space.
I agree, and here in little old England the houses are very small making
the problem greater. I don't have a garage to put big stuff in and my
recently converted loft is already full.
See pictures at: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/loft/
I would love to
have some classic minis, but I'm having a hard enough time storing (and
moving twice in the past 7 months) my collection of 30-odd micros.
Snap, I love Unix and I would an old PDP to run Unix on, but I don't
have space to keep the PDP kit I already have. My main interests are the
home micros, so recently I have had to make some hard descisions about
passing on the PDP kit I have to other people who can devote more time
to it. (Note: I made this descision a few weeks ago now but still
haven't got around to doing anything about it because I hate the feeling
I get when I think about it, even though I think the things will end up
at a good home.) So if you want some PDP kit and can collect from
Cambridge UK drop me an email.
So...
If anyone is willing to give me free storage space in the Saskatoon area,
I'll drive down to BC and pick up a few of your minis you want to give
away! (And yes, I'll take an IMSAI too.)
Ah storage... if I could only find cheap long term self storage around
Cambridge
(UK)
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/
3:49 a.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
What I'm amazed at is that I've got several
thousands pounds of
Data General Eclipse S/130's up here
in B.C. - machines with full toggle-and-light front panels - and
I'm unable to give them away. Repeated posts of the hardware lists
to "classiccmp" have yielded virtually no interest, outside of a
couple of truly heroic collectors/preservationists from the East Coast.
Yet if I make
a mention that I have a front-panel IMSAI I get hundreds of emails
from collectors and pseudo-collectors-wannabes who would bend over backwards
to pay me good money for it. Are the only machines that
people collect trendy micros that have been featured in the "collectible"
column of the _LA Times_ and the like? Are classic minis, including PDP-11's
and DG mini's only items for the junk heap? (Outside the efforts of
me, Jeff Shirley, and a couple heroic folks in Rhode Island, that is?)
Hey, if you're willing to pay for the shipping of those beasts, or
perhaps drive them down to me, I'd be more than happy to take them in.
The fact is they are too cumbersome for most collectors to deal with.
You are to be commended for putting forth the effort to collect them
yourself, but for us common folk they are just too unwieldy.
If I could get machines like you have locally (I do have a source for
PDPs) then I would do it. However, I'm not going to spend hundreds of
dollars or drive hundreds (thousands) of miles in a rented truck (unless
you can fit a PDP-11 in the trunk of a Honda Civic) to pick stuff up.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
5:21 a.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
What I'm amazed at is that I've got several
thousands pounds of
Data General Eclipse S/130's up here
in B.C. - machines with full toggle-and-light front panels - and
I'm unable to give them away. Repeated posts of the hardware lists
to "classiccmp" have yielded virtually no interest, outside of a
couple of truly heroic collectors/preservationists from the East Coast.
I'd love to have one, but there's the usual two problems - one is that
B.C. is a really long way from Maine, and two, storage space (although if
you were on this corner of N. America I'd solve that one).
I've always wanted something with a full panel, but 3 hr drives are
definitely about the limit.
Now, if there was a bucket brigade.....
-stacy
--
Stacy C. Morang, Communications Specialist
Education Network of Maine
scm(a)access.enm.maine.edu, smorang(a)enm.maine.edu
So long, and keep your stick on the ice.
4:18 p.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stacy C. Morang wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
That's funny Stacy 8-) This is what I thought belonging to this group and
the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was ALL about. I would like this to be
a *normal* thing to do. Everyone who wants one - Talk to Tim. Tim puts a
list of who gets gets what. The closest Rescue Squad personnel arranges
a time and date for his pick up in B.C. We ALL find out about Customs
view of shipping scrap across the boarder 8-) Sure - the hardest hit will
be the first in the chain - but we ALL should be first at least ONCE! Then
the next RS person in each direction goes to #1's location and we start
splitting up the goodies. I am NOT saying you will get the item in 10
days. It might take months to sort it all out. If the first guy spends
$200 on a truck and $100 on gas - so what - if he comes back with 30
boxes thats what $10 each? We got it as far as Washington or Oregon! The
next guy spends $60 bucks on gas in his station wagon - ok - he gets 6
boxes and it comes to another $10. We would be in Idaho, Utah or
California! The #1 guy gets to meet Tim - an honor in itself - but only
really spent a weekend of time - he also gets some hardware of doc or
boards or whatever - if he wants any - and if you set it up so the next
crew is there to unload him - even better! In one weekend we could be
almost a quarter across the US with some of it already delivered. The next
weekend or even a month later (depending on storage 8-) the next leg goes.
Finally, everything gets delivered. Maybe the East Coast pays $10 for 10
trips - it's still only $100 for a personally delivered/pickup computer
within 8-10 hour drive. So what if it took 2 months to get there?
Isaac and I have had a vision 8-) of a group of pickups and trailers all
meeting in a cornfield in Nebraska with the associated "Chinese Fire
Drill" of people running around sorting out shipments and maybe having a
campfire or pot-luck dinner! God what a life it could be! You get to do
a nice weekend drive - meet friends with the SAME interests as you - have
a nice talk - do some drinking maybe and then back to the real world by
Monday! Who could ask for more out of life? During the week set up to do
it all over again, sort some shipments - meet people closer to you who can
make it as a evening trip or even an overnighter. Poor over the docs you
*said* you didn't want but - damn - that looks interesting.
(Did I get wound up again?)
BC
--
My pen is at the bottom of a page,
Which, being finished, here the story ends;
'Tis to be wished it had been sooner done,
But stories somehow lengthen when begun.
-- Byron
What I'm amazed at is that I've got
several thousands pounds of
Data General Eclipse S/130's up here in B.C. - machines with full
toggle-and-light front panels - and I'm unable to give them away.
Repeated posts of the hardware lists to "classiccmp" have yielded
virtually no interest, outside of a couple of truly heroic
collectors/preservationists from the East Coast.
I'd love to have one, but there's the usual two problems - one is that
B.C. is a really long way from Maine, and two, storage space (although if
you were on this corner of N. America I'd solve that one).
I've always wanted something with a full panel, but 3 hr drives are
definitely about the limit.
Now, if there was a bucket brigade.....
-stacy 
12:12 p.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation & HP 2000s
On 22 Jul 97 at 23:18, Brett wrote:
That's funny Stacy 8-) This is what I thought
belonging to this group and
the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was ALL about.
[Stuff on the Classic Computer Rescue Squad's Chinese Fire Drill]
I love it! I'd be more than happy to throw in and get a truck and
make a weekend run if it meant that I could get some DEC, HP, DG or
other equipment, meet other collectors, and it would really work out
like that. My place isn't big but when it comes to computer
equipment, I make room. Hey, the kids LIKE camping outside. :-)
With all the talk on minis, anyone know where I can get an HP 2000 or
any info about them? That was the first system I programmed on and
all I have left of the experience is an HP 2000 BASIC Pocket Guide
and some punch tapes. Surprised I still have those given it was over
20 years ago.
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)neosoft.com
http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw
5:54 p.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Brett wrote:
list of who gets gets what. The closest Rescue Squad
personnel arranges
a time and date for his pick up in B.C. We ALL find out about Customs
view of shipping scrap across the boarder 8-) Sure - the hardest hit will
be the first in the chain - but we ALL should be first at least ONCE! Then
the next RS person in each direction goes to #1's location and we start
splitting up the goodies. I am NOT saying you will get the item in 10
days. It might take months to sort it all out. If the first guy spends
$200 on a truck and $100 on gas - so what - if he comes back with 30
boxes thats what $10 each? We got it as far as Washington or Oregon! The
next guy spends $60 bucks on gas in his station wagon - ok - he gets 6
boxes and it comes to another $10. We would be in Idaho, Utah or
California! The #1 guy gets to meet Tim - an honor in itself - but only
So what happens to the guy in Maine? Does he get to pick up the
accumulated $600 in transportation charges that the others before him
incurred?
really spent a weekend of time - he also gets some
hardware of doc or
boards or whatever - if he wants any - and if you set it up so the next
crew is there to unload him - even better! In one weekend we could be
almost a quarter across the US with some of it already delivered. The next
weekend or even a month later (depending on storage 8-) the next leg goes.
Does everyone here have the time to retrieve, sort, re-package and
transport equipment in this manner? I hate to speak for everyone, but I
doubt it.
Finally, everything gets delivered. Maybe the East
Coast pays $10 for 10
trips - it's still only $100 for a personally delivered/pickup computer
within 8-10 hour drive. So what if it took 2 months to get there?
You're forgetting the fact that the equipment still had to make its way
to Maine, accumulating the transportation charges the entire way. I
wouldn't expect anyone to extend me that charity.
Isaac and I have had a vision 8-) of a group of
pickups and trailers all
meeting in a cornfield in Nebraska with the associated "Chinese Fire
Drill" of people running around sorting out shipments and maybe having a
campfire or pot-luck dinner! God what a life it could be! You get to do
a nice weekend drive - meet friends with the SAME interests as you - have
a nice talk - do some drinking maybe and then back to the real world by
Monday! Who could ask for more out of life? During the week set up to do
it all over again, sort some shipments - meet people closer to you who can
make it as a evening trip or even an overnighter. Poor over the docs you
*said* you didn't want but - damn - that looks interesting.
This would be nice, but again, its a matter of time and money. I and I
would expect others in this busy world have plenty to do on weekends as
it is. This hobby is not my life. It is a hobby.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
23 Jul
23 Jul
4:27 a.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote:
Neither would I. The bucket brigade thingy only really works if there are
enough people involved so that no one is inconvenienced enough to require
additional compensation. An 8-10 hour drive (and long distance phone
calling) is more than a little expense for me, anyway.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Brett wrote:
> list of who gets gets what. The closest Rescue Squad personnel arranges
> a time and date for his pick up in B.C. We ALL find out about Customs
> ....
So what happens to the guy in Maine? Does he get to
pick up the
accumulated $600 in transportation charges that the others before him
incurred?
If I win the lottery between now and then, yeah, no problem. Otherwise I
can't justify spending anywhere near $600 for this stuff.
Does everyone here have the time to retrieve, sort,
re-package and
transport equipment in this manner? I hate to speak for everyone, but I
doubt it.
If I were in a more central spot, the time wouldn't be a big problem, but
a bunch of DG's stored in the rain might not be such a good idea.
Finally,
everything gets delivered. Maybe the East Coast pays $10 for 10
trips - it's still only $100 for a personally delivered/pickup computer
within 8-10 hour drive. So what if it took 2 months to get there?
You're forgetting the fact that the equipment still had to make its way
to Maine, accumulating the transportation charges the entire way. I
wouldn't expect anyone to extend me that charity. This would be nice, but again, its a matter of time
and money. I and I
would expect others in this busy world have plenty to do on weekends as
it is. This hobby is not my life. It is a hobby.
Very true. I have lots of projects and the rest of the family to attend
to as well.
-stacy
--
Stacy C. Morang, Communications Specialist
Education Network of Maine
scm(a)access.enm.maine.edu, smorang(a)enm.maine.edu
So long, and keep your stick on the ice.
11:27 a.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Stacy C. Morang wrote:
Remember tho the people who do this must have storage available - even if
it is just left in the van for a week. It is NOT for everyone!
Well, we CERTAINLY wouldn't want to burden the Internet with HUGE VOLUMES
of email. Damn right - grab that phone NOW! 8-)
Well, I am NOT saying do it EVERY weekend and I am NOT saying to do it if
you can't. Not everybody is a Brain Surgen either 8-) I am simply trying
to get computers that someone ELSE wants along - maybe - with the stuff I
want. Maybe meet some nice people along the way. It doesn't hurt. As far
as time and money - what else won't you do for your hobby????? What DO you
HAVE for a hobby that DOESN'T take Time and Money????? I have NEVER HAD a
hobby that didn't consume Time and Money! Isn't THAT what hobbies do?
BC
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote:
Please refer to previous post 8-)
So what happens to the guy in Maine? Does he get
to pick up the
accumulated $600 in transportation charges that the others before him
incurred?
If I win the lottery between now and then, yeah, no problem. Otherwise I
can't justify spending anywhere near $600 for this stuff. Does everyone
here have the time to retrieve, sort, re-package and
transport equipment in this manner? I hate to speak for everyone, but I
doubt it.
If I were in a more central spot, the time wouldn't be a big problem, but
a bunch of DG's stored in the rain might not be such a good idea. You're
forgetting the fact that the equipment still had to make its way
to Maine, accumulating the transportation charges the entire way. I
wouldn't expect anyone to extend me that charity.
Neither would I. The bucket brigade thingy only really works if there are
enough people involved so that no one is inconvenienced enough to require
additional compensation. An 8-10 hour drive (and long distance phone
calling) is more than a little expense for me, anyway. This would be
nice, but again, its a matter of time and money. I and I
would expect others in this busy world have plenty to do on weekends as
it is. This hobby is not my life. It is a hobby.
Very true. I have lots of projects and the rest of the family to attend
to as well.
11:12 a.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote:
If you don't have the time or the inclination - DON'T! And no Sam, I don't
think you talk for everyone here 8-)
No Sam I guess you don't. Others however think it nice to have an excuse
to fire up that old Army Duece and a half and go on a wild weekend of
cruising at the speed limit to save something for someone else, meet new
people, draw looks of amazement as wierd boxes and books get exchanged at
the local K-Mart parking lot.
Well, some of us don't have a life 8-) And then some of us USE our hobby
to do something that we normally wouldn't do in the first place.
BC
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Brett wrote:
I am suprised every time I put (what I thought was) simple math on the
Internet 8-) 10 hours of driving at about 50mph gives you 500 miles.
This is a two way trip so you get 250 8-) Now there are two trips. One to
get and one to get rid of. That's a total of 500 miles and $20 bucks (as
an average) Ten total trips gives you about 5000 miles and gee $200
dollars AT MOST. Last time I looked at a map 8-) 5000 miles gets you from
Alaska to Florida - am I confused? If you do NOT wnat to do it - DON'T -
that's simple. But if I was driving thru on Thursday night and had the
last known working Cray - I don't think I stop by your house either 8-)
I'd go straight home 8-) The trips don't have to be done until it is
economically feasible and the intermediate has suffucient storage. Why
drive from Chicago to Minneapolis for ONE box - make it worth your while!
days. It might take months to sort it all out. If
the first guy spends
$200 on a truck and $100 on gas - so what - if he comes back with 30
boxes thats what $10 each? We got it as far as Washington or Oregon! The
next guy spends $60 bucks on gas in his station wagon - ok - he gets 6
boxes and it comes to another $10. We would be in Idaho, Utah or
California! The #1 guy gets to meet Tim - an honor in itself - but only
So what happens to the guy in Maine? Does he get to pick up the
accumulated $600 in transportation charges that the others before him
incurred? really spent a
weekend of time - he also gets some hardware of doc or
boards or whatever - if he wants any - and if you set it up so the next
crew is there to unload him - even better! In one weekend we could be
almost a quarter across the US with some of it already delivered. The next
weekend or even a month later (depending on storage 8-) the next leg goes.
Does everyone here have the time to retrieve, sort, re-package and
transport equipment in this manner? I hate to speak for everyone, but I
doubt it. Finally,
everything gets delivered. Maybe the East Coast pays $10 for 10
trips - it's still only $100 for a personally delivered/pickup computer
within 8-10 hour drive. So what if it took 2 months to get there?
You're forgetting the fact that the equipment still had to make its way
to Maine, accumulating the transportation charges the entire way. I
wouldn't expect anyone to extend me that charity. Isaac and I
have had a vision 8-) of a group of pickups and trailers all
meeting in a cornfield in Nebraska with the associated "Chinese Fire
Drill" of people running around sorting out shipments and maybe having a
campfire or pot-luck dinner! God what a life it could be! You get to do
a nice weekend drive - meet friends with the SAME interests as you - have
a nice talk - do some drinking maybe and then back to the real world by
Monday! Who could ask for more out of life? During the week set up to do
it all over again, sort some shipments - meet people closer to you who can
make it as a evening trip or even an overnighter. Poor over the docs you
*said* you didn't want but - damn - that looks interesting.
This would be nice, but again, its a matter of time and money. I and I
would expect others in this busy world have plenty to do on weekends as
it is. This hobby is not my life. It is a hobby. 
2:51 a.m.
New subject: Much to Do About - Everything - Transportation
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Brett wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stacy C. Morang wrote:
Hard to say if Stacy will will see anything up in Maine by that time or
not -- looks like by the time Bill Donzelli and I get finished divvying
up what gets to the NY Metro area, there might not be much of a load to
pass on to New England. And yes, I'm interested in one of the machines
myself, but being at the wrong edge of the continent definitely has its
drawbacks. Now if my fiancee's father would die so I can move to
Thermopolis Wyoming and buy the bookstore there, I'd be able to schedule
all sorts of little trips. But it looks like he's good for another
decade or so which keeps me trapped here in New Jersey.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
I'd love to have one, but there's the
usual two problems - one is that
B.C. is a really long way from Maine, and two, storage space (although if
you were on this corner of N. America I'd solve that one).
Now, if there was a bucket brigade.....
That's funny Stacy 8-) This is what I thought belonging to this group and
the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was ALL about. I would like this to be
a *normal* thing to do. Everyone who wants one - Talk to Tim. Tim puts a
list of who gets gets what. The closest Rescue Squad personnel arranges
a time and date for his pick up in B.C. We ALL find out about Customs
view of shipping scrap across the boarder 8-) Sure - the hardest hit will
be the first in the chain - but we ALL should be first at least ONCE! Then
the next RS person in each direction goes to #1's location and we start 
22 Jul
22 Jul
6:50 a.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Good to hear. Apparently I have missed some of his messages along the
way...
> [plea by
Jeff Shirley elimiated for brevity...]
When I was in Pasadena, Jeff Shirley was a never-ending reliable source
for excellent-condition classic hardware, software, and knowledge. Over the past decade, Jeff Shirley has made great
efforts to make
sure that truly classic DEC hardware, software, and systems find
a good home.
Again, a good thing...
What I'm amazed at is that I've got several
thousands pounds of
Data General Eclipse S/130's up here
in B.C. - machines with full toggle-and-light front panels - and
I'm unable to give them away. Repeated posts of the hardware lists
to "classiccmp" have yielded virtually no interest, outside of a
couple of truly heroic collectors/preservationists from the East Coast.
I'd love to have one. I've mentioned this to Paul (Pierce) and seem to
recall him sending you a message. All I've got to do is figure out how to
get one here...
Yet if I make
a mention that I have a front-panel IMSAI I get hundreds of emails
from collectors and pseudo-collectors-wannabes who would bend over backwards
to pay me good money for it. Are the only machines that
people collect trendy micros that have been featured in the "collectible"
column of the _LA Times_ and the like?
Think you've hit it on the head! But I would not call them "collectors",
any more than the people who will only ever offer items through auction.
These folk are just out for the quick $$, and have little enough interest
in the machine or its history. They just want to claim that they have
something that you don't and can get a lot of money for it!
Are classic minis, including PDP-11's
and DG mini's only items for the junk heap? (Outside the efforts of
me, Jeff Shirley, and a couple heroic folks in Rhode Island, that is?)
Now hold up here guy! Kind of the 'broad brush' approach don't you think?
This passtime ("hobby" if you must) tends to take cooperation on both
sides to make things work!
I send Jeff a note this morning about the manuals. I had not contacted
him earlier due to a direct inferrance in his posting that he *did not
want to ship them* ! We'll see if that has changed. I just can't justify
a romp from Oregon to Southern California for a set of manuals.
I get quite a bit of gear shipped to me, but it takes some effort on
*both* sides!
Having a PDP-8/i system shipped out from Wisconsin set me back nearly $2k,
but I considered it to be worthwhile, and the person that had it worked
with me on the shipping arrangements.
Some folk make it feel like a *major* event to get a few pieces or books
put into a box and hauled to the local post. I've only got so much time
and patience for dealing with situations like that.
Please keep in mind, that it is only in the *very rare* case that any of
us ever "give something away". There is almost always some cost on both
sides, be it fuel, shipping, time, effort, or what have you.
There perhaps more than anything is what defines a 'true' collector. How
much 'cost' are you willing to invest, without always getting something
tangible in return.
I'd ramble (rave) on, but I suspect its time to get down from the soapbox.
Besides I still need to finish sorting and cataloging a truckload of Dec
and Sun gear I rescued this weekend.
(and I suspect this connection is going to drop any second now...)
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
2:32 p.m.
Having a PDP-8/i system shipped out from Wisconsin set
me back nearly $2k,
but I considered it to be worthwhile, and the person that had it worked
with me on the shipping arrangements.
This amount seems quite excessive - you may have made the mistake of
calling computer equipment "computer equipment". Let me explain (for the
benefit of minicomputers everywhere).
Freight companies charge mostly for what they are shipping, rather than
how far or how much they are shipping. Computer equipment is shipped
every day, and of course, some of it gets damaged. The freight companies
have to pay for it (directly, or indirectly thru raised insurance costs).
To cover for the inevitable damages, higher shipping rates are quoted.
If some old computer is called "scrap electronics" (or oddly
"transformers"), freight companies will quote rates quite low. After
all, damaged scrap is still scrap - no insurance problems.
For example, a guy I know shipped a 400 pound radio transmitter (BC-610,
for you hams) from Houston to New York for under $200. Over 120 pounds or
so, freight gets cheaper than UPS, RPS, or the other couriers.
The catch is that you better crate the beasts up WELL, as they may get
harse treatment. Building a crate for a six foot rack is not much of a
hardship, as just about the cruddiest wood can be used.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
10014
days inactive
10015
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