19 Oct
2018
19 Oct
'18
11:34 a.m.
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
19 Oct
19 Oct
11:41 a.m.
On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via
cctalk wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard
being sold alone, when the terminal is
right there?
And how come this particular keyboard is
so hugely in demand?
- J.
11:48 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:40 AM js--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via
cctalk wrote:
I sold the entire Series/1 system for $1000 many years ago, and the guy
only wanted the terminal. The rest could be discarded as far as the buyer
cared. This is not a new thing I guess. Probably this is not the same
person selling now that bought my terminal then, now that I see the
location, but you never know.
I do have a few orphaned keyboards from who knows when, spares and so on,
but not as a result of intentionally selling just the terminal :-)
b
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder
if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in
California years ago when I
sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the
terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or
the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard
being sold alone, when the terminal is
right there?
And how come this particular keyboard is
so hugely in demand?
- J.
11:59 a.m.
At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold
alone, when the terminal is right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so
hugely in demand?
My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and
all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series keyboards.
Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB.
- John
12:10 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:59 AM John Foust via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:
They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that are a
dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux
ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB).
Warner
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being
sold alone, when the
terminal is right there? And how come this particular
keyboard is so
hugely in demand?
My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and
all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series
keyboards.
Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB.
12:19 p.m.
12:27 p.m.
So, I have built a USB adapter for my 5150?s keyboard. The experience is
actually quite bad, as stated earlier. The main reason why I still use it
is because I took it with me from Belgium - it?s a French keyboard, and
having access to all the special characters makes typing in eg. French,
German or Spanish so much easier in the odd cases I have to.
For my main daily driver I just use a Unicomp PC5250. Like others said, new
keyboards based on the original mechanisms perform so much better. I spend
a lot of my work in 5250 sessions, and I also play MMOs, so having a
keyboard which doesn?t have to do almost-matching translations make sense.
Some people just have too much money.
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 17:20, Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that are a
dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real
PS/2 to USB, not the faux
ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB).
Warner
The 3101 is not PS/2, pre-dates the IBM PC. If someone made an adapter
it'd be unique to this class of terminal. May be like a DisplayWriter
perhaps.
22 Oct
22 Oct
10:52 a.m.
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 at 12:50, Yvan Janssens via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
So, I have built a USB adapter for my 5150?s keyboard. The experience is
actually quite bad, as stated earlier. The main reason why I still use it
is because I took it with me from Belgium - it?s a French keyboard, and
having access to all the special characters makes typing in eg. French,
German or Spanish so much easier in the odd cases I have to.
I use a Compose key. Built in to Linux, easy to add to Windows.
Thus my UK-layout IBM Model M has every international character it's
possible to type. I can type ? la Fran?ais as easily as I can v
?estina, tady v K?i??kova.
For my main daily driver I just use a Unicomp PC5250.
Like others said, new
keyboards based on the original mechanisms perform so much better.
Tried one (belonging to list member Peter Corlett).
I find the original Real Thing? _far_ better than the modern
reproductions. I think he will agree with me.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
19 Oct
19 Oct
1:13 p.m.
the? ps2? to? ?usb? adapters? ?do not? ?work? well? with? my? dell xps? go? fast?
?computer!
In a message dated 10/19/2018 9:20:07 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
>
> They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT?
The USB adapters for that are a
> dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux
> ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB).
> Warner
The 3101 is not PS/2, pre-dates the IBM PC. If someone made an adapter
it'd be unique to this class of terminal. May be like a DisplayWriter
perhaps.
3:01 p.m.
On 10/19/2018 12:19 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM ED SHARPE via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail program's input
got lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up.
Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff,
even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8.
the ps2 to usb adapters do not work
well with my dell xps
go fast computer!
That would explain all the extra spaces...
- Josh
3:14 p.m.
>> the ps2 to usb adapters do not work
well with my dell xps
>> go fast computer!
> That would explain all the extra spaces...
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ben via cctalk
wrote:
I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail
program's input got
lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up.
Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff,
even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8.
Computer Software Boyle's Law:
extraneous actions, features, ads, etc. will expand to fill all available
space and speed resources.
For example:
Operating system distribution requires a double layer DVD, instead of a
single sided 5.25" floppy.
When you want to type a shopping list, is it quicker on the new machine?
(How long from power cycle on the amazingly fast Dell XPS before Office
gives you a blank document screen?) Does a shopping list need to have
PICTURES of eggs?
10 years ago, at the college, a memo announcing a room or time change for
a meeting was done on Word, printed in color, scanned, and attached to an
email. (I'm not sure WHY, but how else to get a horizontal rule that was
offset by a couple of pixels from one end to the other?) I wonder whether
they have now switched from the same half dozen words now being done with
video and sound?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
23 Oct
23 Oct
4:07 p.m.
I like? my? ?xps. I? do not? make? grocery lists on it? I? edit? news? video? with it...?
?for? video editing faster is better and? what? I? really? want is? not? yet? ?fast?
enough!
?
?
speaking of? ?video and? keyboards and computers...
?
I? need? an AMIGA? keyboard? to go with? the? Amiga? with video toaster one of? our cable?
TV? friends? ?contributed for a? display here...? the? enigma? now is? which? display to
put it in?? computers or? ?video production and television?? ?Think I? will put it in?
video production? ?as? what? makes it? unique? is the? video toaster? card...
?
?
Ed#
?
In a message dated 10/19/2018 12:14:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
>> the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with
my dell xps
>> go fast computer!
> That would explain all the extra spaces...
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ben via cctalk
wrote:
I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail
program's input got
lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up.
Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff,
even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8.
Computer Software Boyle's Law:
extraneous actions, features, ads, etc. will expand to fill all available
space and speed resources.
For example:
Operating system distribution requires a double layer DVD, instead of a
single sided 5.25" floppy.
When you want to type a shopping list, is it quicker on the new machine?
(How long from power cycle on the amazingly fast Dell XPS before Office
gives you a blank document screen?) Does a shopping list need to have
PICTURES of eggs?
10 years ago, at the college, a memo announcing a room or time change for
a meeting was done on Word, printed in color, scanned, and attached to an
email. (I'm not sure WHY, but how else to get a horizontal rule that was
offset by a couple of pixels from one end to the other?) I wonder whether
they have now switched from the same half dozen words now being done with
video and sound?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
22 Oct
22 Oct
10:48 a.m.
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 21:01, ben via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and
slower on web stuff,
even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8.
https://danluu.com/input-lag/
Summary: no, it's not just you.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
19 Oct
19 Oct
12:10 p.m.
i used an adapter to usb? and? it? would? glitch? and lock? sometimes... ed#
In a message dated 10/19/2018 8:59:25 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold
alone, when the terminal is right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so
hugely in demand?
My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and
all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series keyboards.
Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB.
- John
12:50 p.m.
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
i used an adapter to usb?? and?? it?? would?? glitch??
and lock?? sometimes... ed#
Why don't the fancy "Gamer" computers have a REAL keyboard port?
Or, just leave the keyboard connected to whatever it originally came with.
Place the "gamer" 48" monitor on top of that machine.
Run some trivial software on that to output the keyboard data through the
serial port, cabled down under the table to a Y2K Dell or generic dumpster
computer, and output USB from that to the "gamer" computer, also under the
table.
12:14 p.m.
OK I? am sorry? I? do not? understand? why the keyboard? went? this high?
Please... Please... someone? explain?
?
?
Ed#
?
?
?
In a message dated 10/19/2018 8:40:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via
cctalk wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard
being sold alone, when the terminal is
right there?
And how come this particular keyboard is
so hugely in demand?
- J.
12:19 p.m.
OK I? am sorry? I? do not? understand? why the
keyboard? went? this high?
Please... Please... someone? explain?
Ed#
Race for the loudest keyboard. Bragging rights of the rare?
An Adlib card sold for $3100 a year ago or so. Friends were suspicious
that people were driving up the price of their own posession to try to
mark to market some of the retro stuff higher. Basically, create the same
speculation that housing has gone through recently like the cryptocurrency
people do.
I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky keyboards with RGB for
$150.
--
: Ethan O'Toole
12:27 p.m.
On 2018-10-19 1:19 p.m., Ethan via cctalk wrote:
Or any dumpster, if you're a freak who doesn't need an RGB illuminated
keyboard.
OK I? am
sorry? I? do not? understand? why the keyboard? went? this high?
Please... Please... someone? explain?
Ed#
Race for the loudest keyboard. Bragging rights of the rare?
An Adlib card sold for $3100 a year ago or so. Friends were suspicious
that people were driving up the price of their own posession to try to
mark to market some of the retro stuff higher. Basically, create the
same speculation that housing has gone through recently like the
cryptocurrency people do.
I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky keyboards with RGB for
$150.
--
: Ethan O'Toole
12:48 p.m.
On 10/19/18 9:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk wrote:
I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky
keyboards with RGB for $150.
The quality of modern keycaps is poor.
These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops.
If you do find modern double-shots, the fonts they use are crap.
The kb I'm typing on cost me about $300 after having to buy replacement caps
for almost the same price as the kb was.
12:53 p.m.
The quality of modern keycaps is poor.
These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops.
If you do find modern double-shots, the fonts they use are crap.
The kb I'm typing on cost me about $300 after having to buy replacement caps
for almost the same price as the kb was.
I had some Model M keyboards I got for free. Gave them away to kids at our
hackerspace in Norfolk because I hated the feel of typing on them. They
were all giddy.
You can get the keyboard that has no print on the keycaps at all. Seems
ideal!
--
: Ethan O'Toole
12:33 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:14:56PM -0400, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
OK I? am sorry? I? do not? understand? why the
keyboard? went? this high?
...
cctalk wrote:
> Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
> separated
>
>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Looks like they are being cut up in jewellery
https://www.ebay.com/p/IBM-Beamspring-Keychain-Keyboard-Key-5251-3101-3278-…
Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://artemis.db.net/~db
12:44 p.m.
Hi Ed,
This particular keyboard uses beam spring key switches. These are
considered ultra luxury old-school key switches with really good key caps.
IBM spared no expense. The IBM 3101 is the thinnest beam spring keyboard
and looks closest to the IBM Model M (sort of) in terms of keys. While the
key caps don't match up, someone created a converter that makes these
keyboards work via USB (replacing the controller board) which also maps out
easily to a usable PC keyboard. It is likely to go higher.
I have one of these keyboards that is in serious need of restoration but
when I restore it I will acquire a 3101 terminal for it to mate with (as I
have done with other keyboards and terminals).
Hope this helps.
Santo
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:15 PM ED SHARPE via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
OK I am sorry I do not understand why the
keyboard went this high?
Please... Please... someone explain?
12:45 p.m.
On 10/19/18 8:41 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote:
Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the
terminal is right there?
Keyboard collectors.
https://deskthority.net/ etc.
Any 70's or 80's mechanical switch or hall-effect keyboard is going for big bucks
now.
This has been discussed here and on the VCF forum before.
I am in the process of trying to draw out the schematics for the IBM Displaywriter,
and it is impossible to find a 'reasonably priced' (as in less than $300 dollar)
keyboard for the system I've pieced together.
There are people making USB adapters for most of the old IBM mechanical keyboards now.
I'm also working on documenting IBM CU 'Control Unit' (coax..) Terminals
You can find terminals, but not keyboards.
12:55 p.m.
well i? have? some? clicky? keyboards and? ?yea? love the? ?feedback? clak? when I type?
but the? ?usual off the rack? frys? ? usb? thing is? problematic?
?
so? by thinner? bean? it? clacks? but? has? ?a lighter? motion?
?
?
then? I have? this? ?ibm? clacky? keyboard? with? ?several rows? of? function? keys...?
as? i? remember? ?2? or? 3? rows?? wonder what the hell it? was? used? for?
?
Gave? my? wife and? Envey? hp all in? one? ?body? I? got? and? put? a? keyboard? with it?
that? had? decals on the? keys...? she? was? not? happy...? seems? all keys? wear? off?
now....??
?
In a message dated 10/19/2018 9:45:13 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
On 10/19/18 8:41 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote:
Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the
terminal is right there?
Keyboard collectors.
https://deskthority.net/ etc.
Any 70's or 80's mechanical switch or hall-effect keyboard is going for big bucks
now.
This has been discussed here and on the VCF forum before.
I am in the process of trying to draw out the schematics for the IBM Displaywriter,
and it is impossible to find a 'reasonably priced' (as in less than $300 dollar)
keyboard for the system I've pieced together.
There are people making USB adapters for most of the old IBM mechanical keyboards now.
I'm also working on documenting IBM CU 'Control Unit' (coax..) Terminals
You can find terminals, but not keyboards.
1:23 p.m.
On 10/19/18 9:55 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
well i? have? some? clicky? keyboards and? ?yea? love
the? ?feedback? clak? when I type? but the? ?usual off the rack? frys? ? usb? thing is?
problematic?
I've got a bunch of Model Ms scattered around here. I remember when
Surplus Software in Portland was selling the new surplus ones for
something like $15 each.
Personally, having learned to touch-type on a manual typewriter, I
prefer the clickety sound. IBM Wheelwriter typewriters used to drive me
nuts due to the out-of-sync sound of the type hammer and the keypress.
Those who learned to touch-type in the post-Selectric era probably don't
have the problem.
So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine for me--I use one
of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But then, I'm not a
gamer...
--Chuck
2:14 p.m.
On 10/19/2018 01:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 10/19/18 9:55 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
Me I had M keyboards in the day, thought they sucked!? Vt100 and VT220
early version
were my measure.? None of them made me type better!
For the last decade plus I've used the aluminum large and small USB
keyboard from Apple
on the various Linux boxes.? My only gripe is they are not double shot
keys so the letters
wear off after about? 5-6 years. ? Why did I buy it?? Reliable, coffee
resistant,? the only
thing that counts.
As to keyboard fetish fans... Seriously??? If I'd do anything I want
that brass and wood steampunk
piece of art like used in Werehouse 13,? least then I feel I got
something unusual and attractive.
Allison
well i? have? some? clicky? keyboards and? ?yea?
love the? ?feedback? clak? when I type? but the? ?usual off the rack? frys? ? usb? thing
is? problematic?
I've got a bunch of Model Ms scattered around here. I
remember when
Surplus Software in Portland was selling the new surplus ones for
something like $15 each.
Personally, having learned to touch-type on a manual typewriter, I
prefer the clickety sound. IBM Wheelwriter typewriters used to drive me
nuts due to the out-of-sync sound of the type hammer and the keypress.
Those who learned to touch-type in the post-Selectric era probably don't
have the problem.
So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine for me--I use one
of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But then, I'm not a
gamer...
--Chuck
3:44 p.m.
On 10/19/18 11:14 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
On 10/19/2018 01:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Me I had M keyboards in the day, thought they sucked!? Vt100 and VT220
early version
were my measure.? None of them made me type better!
I will confess to a fondness for my old NCR Cherry-switch equipped
keyboards. Nice layout, but eventually the need for F11 and F12 keys
drove me back to the Model Ms. (The NCR has F-keys up to 30 with F1-F10
where god intended, along the left side, but the F11-F30 just duplicate
the F1-f10 with Shift and Control added.). One of these days I'll pull
one out and hack the EPROMs in it to give me real F11 and F12.
Double-shot keys there also.
I wonder if double-shot are all that, really. I've got several dye-sub
keyboards and they don't seem to show much wear on the keys. But then,
I type like I play the piano--fingers don't really touch the keys until
one gets pressed.
--Chuck
23 Oct
23 Oct
4:09 p.m.
dunno? ?what? ?being a? gamer? has? to? do? with it? working or not...
?
my? problem was it? would? just? ?have the keyboard? go away and? not? respond... tried?
several I? had...
worked on older? computers...
?
?
oh well!?
?
?
Ed#
In a message dated 10/19/2018 11:14:11 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine
for me--I use one
of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But
then, I'm not a
gamer...
--Chuck
4:31 p.m.
Hi? Chuck!? Ah? the? frantic? keys pounding? and screaming? while? playing?
Maybe....? ?yea?I poke? mine? pretty? slow...? ?there are? some? days? I have? trouble?
making? my? fingers? type... maybe? I? type? too? slow!!?!??
?
I? am looking at? a? site that? ?says? ?cheap? usb? ps2 adapters? are? ?not? active?
?circuits thus? can cause? problems... I? suspect mine? are? cheap ones
?
any? truth? on? this? site?
?
?
https://clickykeyboards.com/product/ps2-to-usb-adapter-converter-for-keyboa…
?
?
Ed#
?
In a message dated 10/23/2018 1:26:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
On 10/23/18 1:09 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
dunno? ?what? ?being a? gamer? has? to? do? with it?
working or not...
It's always seemed to me that gamers use/abuse keyboards more than those
of us who simply use them to type.
Maybe that's a mistaken impression.
--Chuck
24 Oct
24 Oct
4:28 p.m.
New subject: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my TD700 working so, with all this talk
about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone need/want a keyboard for a Burroughs
TD700/TD800 type terminal?
http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg
Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC.
m
4:31 p.m.
New subject: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 2018-10-24 5:28 p.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my
TD700 working so, with all this talk about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone
need/want a keyboard for a Burroughs TD700/TD800 type terminal?
http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg
Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC.
m
Sorry, gotta ask: Why not sell the whole setup? There are people on this
list who could probably fix it.
--T
4:57 p.m.
New subject: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Thain via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 2018-10-24 5:28 p.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
I have a spare keyboard; thought I'd mention it in case someone actually has a
relevant terminal needing a keyboard, as per the original discussion thread.
As to getting the TD700 working:
It's built around a card cage with (I think) 8 plug-in boards, several of which are
missing (and it weighs a ton!)
A while back I chatted with a couple of folks who also had one (not working) and although
not totally impossible it really didn't look feasible without those boards; also of
course there's no guarantee that the Panaplex panel is still working.
I *may* actually have someone who'll take the whole thing but I thought I'd ask
here to see if there's any interest.
m
It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get
my TD700 working so, with all this talk about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone
need/want a keyboard for a Burroughs TD700/TD800 type terminal?
http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg
Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC.
m
Sorry, gotta ask: Why not sell the whole setup? There are people on this
list who could probably fix it.
--T
19 Oct
19 Oct
12:16 p.m.
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
I sold a working luggable computer. The keys were a bit clicky but I put
on the auction to try to thwart the keyboard collectors. I shipped it
working, buyer claimed it wasn't working when arrived. Ended up having to
refund on it. Ate $110 in shipping.
I'm super paranoid that the buyer was looking for certain keyboard and
just fried it to claim insurance.
It definitely squashed any enthusiasm about selling on eBay, outside of
all the work done to pack and ship and have some 14% of the sale price
taken by eBay/PayPal.
- Ethan
1:18 p.m.
On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and
should be treated as such.
I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved ?the
holy grail of collecting? by having more than one ?Space Cadet? keyboard, fawning about
how superlatively perfect they?re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison.
They?re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north
of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most
of the ?special? keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and
control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps
lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est? thing last I heard. I think it?s just
conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you?ve got the dosh to waste things other
people must work hard for a chance to get.
4:54 p.m.
On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those
old keyboards whether they worked or not?? All I have now
are a lot of DEC keyboards/
bill
On Oct 19,
2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and
should be treated as such.
I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved ?the
holy grail of collecting? by having more than one ?Space Cadet? keyboard, fawning about
how superlatively perfect they?re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison.
They?re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north
of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most
of the ?special? keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and
control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps
lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est? thing last I heard. I think it?s just
conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you?ve got the dosh to waste things other
people must work hard for a chance to get.
5:46 p.m.
i need? decmate 2? colored? keyboard? ?for? wordprocessing wps8? thanks? ?ed
?
?
In a message dated 10/19/2018 1:55:05 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those
old keyboards whether they worked or not?? All I have now
are a lot of DEC keyboards/
bill
On Oct 19,
2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and
should be treated as such.
I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved ?the
holy grail of collecting? by having more than one ?Space Cadet? keyboard, fawning about
how superlatively perfect they?re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison.
They?re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north
of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most
of the ?special? keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and
control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps
lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est? thing last I heard. I think it?s just
conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you?ve got the dosh to waste things other
people must work hard for a chance to get.
6:34 p.m.
Anybody else notice that all the buyers for that keyboard on ebay are under
10 feedback?
The only Digital keyboards I have are a pair of LK411-AA that go with my
VT-525's. The recycler kept a stack of VT-525s for a while but the stack of
LK411 that went with them got their cords cut and chucked into the plastic
pile the day after they arrived (luckily I snagged a pair before then).
I have a small hoard of IBM model M's purchased from a recycler years ago
for a few bucks each. I use one on my main rig (has PS/2 adapter connected
to a Belkin SOHO 4 port KVM), same setup in the basement. I would dig though
the incoming pallets looking for the IBM keyboards and passing on the
Unicomp ones. Used to use a Northgate Omnikey 102 but the layout difference
between the Model M (which I used in multiple places) made me retire it. My
other Northgate is connected to an Amiga 2000.
My first use of a terminal keyboard was in college (IBM terminals connected
to a mainframe for Fortran programming) and I loved those keyboards. They
are kind of hard to find locally (I do have an IBM 1390702 missing a PF
keycap and its cable plus a small chunk on plastic in the rear) and a shitty
Unicomp model DCI0952 that is complete with a PS/2 cable.
I think you need to pay a decent amount of money for a good clicky USB
keyboard these days (most like a gamer style keyboard). Everything else is
kind of mushy cheap crap. So I can see somebody who does a lot of typing
wanting a vintage keyboard with a good feel to it. Since I have enough Model
M's to last a lifetime I don't see paying $150+ for a new keyboard.
Not that many people need a terminal these days, so the terminal either gets
trashed or at least somebody saves the keyboard. I know collectors will
bitch about that but what can you do? A $1000 keyboard will make a scrappers
year, same keyboard connected to a CRT screen might get $100 and be a pain
to ship.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:54 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those
old keyboards whether they worked or not? All I have now
are a lot of DEC keyboards/
bill
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Oct 19,
2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming
qualities, and should be treated as such.
I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I
had achieved ?the holy grail of collecting? by having more than one ?Space
Cadet? keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they?re supposed
to be and everything else pales in comparison. They?re a status symbol in
keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000
for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use
most of the ?special? keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most
of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards
instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest
hacker-est? thing last I heard. I think it?s just conspicuous
consumption - Having one proves you?ve got the dosh to waste things other
people must work hard for a chance to get.
20 Oct
20 Oct
3:03 a.m.
On 10/19/18 12:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any
enthusiast group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest.
You want to talk conspicuous consumption? How many on this list,
myself included, have spent a fortune on old computer hardware, and then
another fortune housing it?
I'm one of those "fetishists" - I do love me a nice clackety
keyboard. And not for nothing, but my experience with '80s- and
'90s-era mechanical keyboards is precisely why I do. I build my
keyboards from new parts, and I think paying $5/switch for parts from
the old Apple Extended Keyboard II is just silly, but I have a hard time
blaming anybody for pursuing what's important to them.
You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable
treasures? Ante up, pure and simple. I've seen the same thing over and
over in the vintage computer circles - guys wailing and wringing their
hands about classic machines going to keyboard scavengers, or gold
recovery, or whatever the Demon du Jour happens to be. And then they
won't pay the price of shipping to keep the thing out of the scrap pile.
I have a 5140 Convertible that I tried to sell awhile back in the
vcfed community. I got a lot of lowball offers and a lot of rants
veiled as warnings about those godless scavengers. From the same
cheapskates of course. In the end, that system is worth twice as much
as desoldered parts as the best offer I got. Survey sez all that
wailing and teeth-gnashing is bullshit.
On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and
should be treated as such.
I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved ?the
holy grail of collecting? by having more than one ?Space Cadet? keyboard, fawning about
how superlatively perfect they?re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison.
They?re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north
of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most
of the ?special? keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and
control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps
lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est? thing last I heard. I think it?s just
conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you?ve got the dosh to waste things other
people must work hard for a chance to get.
12:31 p.m.
On Oct 20, 2018, at 2:03 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any enthusiast
group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You want to talk
conspicuous consumption? How many on this list, myself included, have spent a fortune on
old computer hardware, and then another fortune housing it?
That?s not consumption. The items involved are not ?consumed? - they are not destroyed or
used up. Taking a piece of equipment and turning it into a keyboard plus N pounds of scrap
is consumption. The equipment is destroyed.
You guys want people to stop scavenging those
irreplaceable treasures? Ante up, pure and simple.
Right, because availability of cash is the sole determining factor in a person?s worth. I
guess someone should come pick up all this stuff then, I clearly don?t deserve any of it.
I only spent ten years plus searching, called in major favors to get it here, and wrote
two successful public projects to share the experience with other people - but very little
money. What was I thinking? I?m sure whoever is able to shell out $8K from their trust
fund to turn 1500 pounds of potentially working machines into a couple el33t h4x0r g4ming
keyboards will be far more deserving than a filthy poor like me.
12:52 p.m.
all this? ?keyboard jewelry reminds me of people ripping keys off old vintage typewriters?
that had the celluloid tops to make woman's jewelry? of........ very sad..? saw this
happening in the? places that sold? this kid of stuff..
?
.
In a message dated 10/20/2018 9:31:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
On Oct 20, 2018, at 2:03 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any enthusiast group,
and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You want to talk conspicuous
consumption? How many on this list, myself included, have spent a fortune on old computer
hardware, and then another fortune housing it?
That?s not consumption. The items involved are not ?consumed? - they are not destroyed or
used up. Taking a piece of equipment and turning it into a keyboard plus N pounds of scrap
is consumption. The equipment is destroyed.
You guys want people to stop scavenging those
irreplaceable treasures? Ante up, pure and simple.
Right, because availability of cash is the sole determining factor in a person?s worth. I
guess someone should come pick up all this stuff then, I clearly don?t deserve any of it.
I only spent ten years plus searching, called in major favors to get it here, and wrote
two successful public projects to share the experience with other people - but very little
money. What was I thinking? I?m sure whoever is able to shell out $8K from their trust
fund to turn 1500 pounds of potentially working machines into a couple el33t h4x0r g4ming
keyboards will be far more deserving than a filthy poor like me.
21 Oct
21 Oct
1:05 a.m.
It's Beanie Babies all over again, people. Give it a year or two and the
keyboard market will likely crash. Pick them up on the slide down. I bet
most will not be gutted, simply due to the general lack of activity of
computer people. Just like we are.
--
Will (who paid attention to all those IBM terminals and keyboards years ago
when everyone else was ignoring them. No, I will not sell you any.)
2:25 p.m.
On 10/20/18 10:05 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
It's Beanie Babies all over again, people. Give it
a year or two and the
keyboard market will likely crash.
I don't see it happening, unless someone turns up a warehouse full of the
things cheap to drive supply up.
All I hear about are guys with warehouses scrapping CRTs, and those are
80's & 90's commodity ASCII terminals. The only terminal keyboards still
turning up in volume are Wyse because the rest were junk that got flaky
10+ years ago.
Beanie Babies were sold as collectables, and millions were made.
CRT terminals aren't collectable. You don't flip them. There are a handful
of interest to collectors, like VT100s.
Before Hercules, no one cared about CU terminals because there was nothing
you could do with them without the knowledge of the care and feeding of
IBM big iron. Even twinax was pretty out there. Only 'corestore' ever showed
much of anything in that world. So now, all of that is pretty much obsolete
and getting thrown out by the warehouse load. Hell, even I ended up with 10
3191 terminals recently because they would have been tossed.
Because of my job, I have to think about what the museum needs to collect
at the bottom of the supply bathtub curve, and I get nervous when things
start to come up on the tail side.
3:34 p.m.
On 10/21/18 11:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Because of my job, I have to think about what the
museum needs to collect
at the bottom of the supply bathtub curve, and I get nervous when things
start to come up on the tail side.
I should probably expound on that a bit more.
I've noticed our collection is pretty weak in IBM and compatible
comms gear. I had some documentation to fill in some holes, but
that made me think more about 3rd party devices, which are a little
easier to document because it isn't full of IBM ASICs.
I've been making some calls, you'd think the stuff would still be
out there, but after they stop laughing the brokers either
say they threw that stuff out decades ago, or want thousands
of dollars for it then don't have the documentation.
Maybe I'm just calling the wrong places.
The one thing I'm really looking for is the AT&T/Memorex MCS 6542
control unit. I stumbled upon the hardware description looking for
something else about two weeks ago, but can't find anyone that still
has one. 6541s are easy to find, but they use a proprietary "standard
serial interface" which only works with AT&T terminals.
19 Oct
19 Oct
2:15 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far.
Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal (got it from a
former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe)
and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard.
-ethan
2:52 p.m.
Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal
(got it from a
former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe)
and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard.
-ethan
Just use an arduino to make an adapter so you can use a USB keyboard with
the 3101 terminal.
If you used a clicky non-poured keycap RGB one you might be able to make
it change colors when it beeps.
--
: Ethan O'Toole
8:32 p.m.
On 2018-10-19 3:15 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Bill Degnan via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Even though the feel of the "beam-spring" keyboards is nice and
they
make a pleasant sound they are not the most reliable keyboard. Since
they are capacitive keyboards they are very sensitive to contamination,
and one of the flat metal springs in the key module flexes back and
forth each time the key is depressed which leads to it fatiguing and
breaking.? I am sure the only source of replacement key modules now
would be to take them from another keyboard.? When I was servicing a lot
of terminals that used that keyboard technology I used to keep half a
dozen in my trunk all the time.
The design as used in the original PC keyboard was mechanically more
durable but since it was still a capacitive keyboard, it was still very
sensitive to contamination.
Paul.
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and
terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far.
Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal
(got it from a
former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe)
and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard.
-ethan 
20 Oct
20 Oct
8 p.m.
Ugh - this is super frustrating to see. Especially since I have a 3101
here with no keyboard. And the reason *why* it has no keyboard? It got
bought out from under me. I bought this terminal, complete, on eBay.
It arrives... with no keyboard. I complained to the seller, he
refunded all my money and just said, basically "Sorry, someone gave me
a whole lot of money for the keyboard alone, you can keep the
terminal".... Great. So, now I have a useless terminal on my shelf
waiting for me to get extremely lucky and find the missing keyboard.
What's even worse is this wasn't even the first time this happened to
me. I have an Infoton here that's missing it's keyboard for the exact
same reason.
Collecting computer terminals has gotten horribly frustrating, and
really, these keyboard scalpers have sucked a lot of the fun out of
the hobby for me.
-Ian
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
8:16 p.m.
I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of arduino projects to create a PC
keyboard to each of the classics...
Warner
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 6:00 PM Ian Primus via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Ugh - this is super frustrating to see. Especially
since I have a 3101
here with no keyboard. And the reason *why* it has no keyboard? It got
bought out from under me. I bought this terminal, complete, on eBay.
It arrives... with no keyboard. I complained to the seller, he
refunded all my money and just said, basically "Sorry, someone gave me
a whole lot of money for the keyboard alone, you can keep the
terminal".... Great. So, now I have a useless terminal on my shelf
waiting for me to get extremely lucky and find the missing keyboard.
What's even worse is this wasn't even the first time this happened to
me. I have an Infoton here that's missing it's keyboard for the exact
same reason.
Collecting computer terminals has gotten horribly frustrating, and
really, these keyboard scalpers have sucked a lot of the fun out of
the hobby for me.
-Ian
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-198…
Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder
if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in
California years ago when I
sold
my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the
terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or
the
manuals.
There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.
Bill
9:56 p.m.
On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of
arduino projects to create a PC
keyboard to each of the classics...
If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or create replicas.
In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the keyboards,
so there was some reverse-engineering occurring
http://www.kbdbabel.org/
but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just the key matrix
I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of terminals. A side
effect
of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and not-so-valued
but
rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes.
11:05 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:56 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
that's awesome. I've been working to flesh out the final details of the
Rainbow with a gentleman who has more of a knack for that stuff than I...
It's awesome you've done similar with these keyboards...
Warner
I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of
arduino projects to create a PC
keyboard to each of the classics...
If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or
create replicas.
In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the
keyboards,
so there was some reverse-engineering occurring
http://www.kbdbabel.org/
but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just
the key matrix
I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of
terminals. A side effect
of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and
not-so-valued but
rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes.
11:11 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 9:05 PM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:56 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have an old Apple Newton keyboard... would that be useful? It's just a
simple serial protocol with a table that at one point I write a program
that used the xtest extension to allow me to use it as my main keyboard
while in X11.... Would that be helpful / useful here at all?
Warner
On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
that's awesome. I've been working to flesh out the final details of the
Rainbow with a gentleman who has more of a knack for that stuff than I...
It's awesome you've done similar with these keyboards...
I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of
arduino projects to create a PC
keyboard to each of the classics...
If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or
create replicas.
In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the
keyboards,
so there was some reverse-engineering occurring
http://www.kbdbabel.org/
but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just
the key matrix
I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of
terminals. A side effect
of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and
not-so-valued but
rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes.
21 Oct
21 Oct
1:44 p.m.
On 10/20/18 8:11 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
I have an old Apple Newton keyboard... would that be
useful? It's just a simple serial protocol with a table that at one
point I write a program that used the xtest extension to allow me to use it as my main
keyboard while in X11.... Would
that be helpful / useful here at all?
It would be good to get it documented somewhere.
2103
days inactive
2108
days old
54 comments
26 participants
participants (26)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
allisonportable＠gmail.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
couryhouse＠aol.com -
db＠db.net -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
doc＠vaxen.net -
dseagrav＠lunar-tokyo.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
ethan＠757.org -
ian.primus.ccmp＠gmail.com -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
js＠cimmeri.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
qsecofr＠qseco.fr -
santo.nucifora＠gmail.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com