21 Oct
2011
21 Oct
'11
9:19 a.m.
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the 'newest'
one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information on
the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
21 Oct
21 Oct
11:36 a.m.
Benjamin S?lberg wrote:
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information
on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
You have mail...I have archived a few PPS/4 manuals - thought I had sent
them to Al, but perhaps not. Anyway I am sending you a copy of the
PPS4-2 2-chip micro PDF. I'll fling these off to Al as well....
John :-#)#
11:47 a.m.
Benjamin S?lberg wrote:
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information
on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
(revised)
You have mail...I have archived a few PPS/4 manuals - thought I had sent
them to Al, but perhaps not. Anyway I am sending you copies of the
PPS4 1-chip micro PDFs - MM78 and MM76. I'll fling these off to Al
(bitsavers) as well....
John :-#)#
12:56 p.m.
On Oct 21, 2011, at 8:47 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Benjamin S?lberg wrote:
Hi John
Thats really greate news regarding the PPS-4/1 chips.
I am reading the documents right now.
Did actually send two mails to bitsaver (to emils that i guessed) but got "no such
account" on both attempts, so i am glad to hear that you have a direct
"channel" :-)
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information
on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
(revised)
You have mail...I have archived a few PPS/4 manuals - thought I had sent
them to Al, but perhaps not. Anyway I am sending you copies of the
PPS4 1-chip micro PDFs - MM78 and MM76. I'll fling these off to Al (bitsavers) as
well....
John :-#)#
1:13 p.m.
Hey, that reminds me. What's the best address to send to bitsavers these days? I
have an NCR53C90A datasheet that took FOREVER to find (someone on a NeXT forum managed to
find a pile of TIFF files that someone had scanned and posted somewhere else), but all of
the contact info on bitsavers' page seems to be broken.
Also, if anyone needs a 53C90A/B datasheet, I have it. :-)
- Dave
On Oct 21, 2011, at 2:47 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Benjamin S?lberg wrote:
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information
on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
(revised)
You have mail...I have archived a few PPS/4 manuals - thought I had sent
them to Al, but perhaps not. Anyway I am sending you copies of the
PPS4 1-chip micro PDFs - MM78 and MM76. I'll fling these off to Al (bitsavers) as
well....
John :-#)#
2:39 p.m.
Hi
Send an email to Al Kossow. Describe what you have and
the quality of the scanning.
He will let you know if he will put it on bitsavers and where
to send it.
Dwight
Subject: Re: Information on the PPS-4/1 4 bit
microprocessor wanted
From: fraveydank at gmail.com
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:13:31 -0400
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
CC: cctech at classiccmp.org
Hey, that reminds me. What's the best address to send to bitsavers these days? I have
an NCR53C90A datasheet that took FOREVER to find (someone on a NeXT forum managed to find
a pile of TIFF files that someone had scanned and posted somewhere else), but all of the
contact info on bitsavers' page seems to be broken.
Also, if anyone needs a 53C90A/B datasheet, I have it. :-)
- Dave
On Oct 21, 2011, at 2:47 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Benjamin S?lberg wrote:
Hi all
I am a retro fan doing both EE and CE.
I started with ZX81/Lambda/New Brain/Commodore.
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week 14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I guess it's a
Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 cpu with clock, ram and rom) from
sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the missing
"/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that I believe
is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a minimal system
could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a PPS-4/1 where I
again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal combination is in one chip just
like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a "electrically
alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
So I would like to hear all you guys if anyone of you could provide me more information
on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or wrong.
Also if there is some way to dump the rom (without decapping the chip).
The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running the game)
Regards
Benjamin
(revised)
You have mail...I have archived a few PPS/4 manuals - thought I had sent
them to Al, but perhaps not. Anyway I am sending you copies of the
PPS4 1-chip micro PDFs - MM78 and MM76. I'll fling these off to Al (bitsavers) as
well....
John :-#)#
2:10 p.m.
Not that I know anything about this microcontroller or the game...
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week =
14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I =
guess it's a Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 =
cpu with clock, ram and rom) from sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the =
missing "/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
Have you traced out enough of the scheamtic of the game to see if this
could possibly be the device in question. Do things like the power pins,
clock oscillator, etc, all match up?
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
=
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf=
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip =
that I believe is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and =
the 'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
It might be /2 (chips) and /1 (chip) :-)
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a =
minimal system could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined =
RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a =
PPS-4/1 where I again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal =
combination is in one chip just like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a =
"electrically alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
I would be very suprised. EAROM did exist in 1979 (I think) but it was
expensive and small capacity, It would not make sense to use it for the
firmware store of a mcirocontroller, and certainly not in a commerical
product like this.
The ROM _might_ been EPROM, but I doubt that too. Msot likely it is
masked ROM, and there bay be no way to (officially) read it out. There
may be a test mode that allows you to get access to the ROM, whether
that's docuemtned or not I don't know.
-tony
22 Oct
22 Oct
12:10 p.m.
Not that I know anything about this microcontroller or the game...
Hello Tony
I just found, by reading the interview with the game developer, that the game uses a
custom version of a calculator chip and not directly the PPS-4/1. The PPS-4 seems to be a
more general purpose. About tracing the game doesn't bring much as the game is just a
single chip and a handful of leds. Super super simple circuit.
As an afterthought I think you are right regarding the EAROM.
It must be a masked ROM, so all this doesn't give me many chances.
Sad, coz I really looked forward to recreating the game.
On a side note: I looked in to the data sheets to the PPS-4/1 that John Robertson was kind
enough to dig out of his digital hideout. The PPS-4 was actually a bit more
'sophisticated' than I first thought. One other thing that was unexpected was that
they are powered eg. 0 and negative 9V. I wonder why it's like that...
Regards
Benjamin
I am also the proud owner of a Mattel Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week =
14.
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled B6001EA and I =
guess it's a Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a PPS-4 =
cpu with clock, ram and rom) from sources I found on the net.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU chip (note the =
missing "/1" postfix) here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
Have you traced out enough of the scheamtic of the game to see if this
could possibly be the device in question. Do things like the power pins,
clock oscillator, etc, all match up?
And I found the owners manual for the game here:
=
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf=
But I haven't been able to find any documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip =
that I believe is used in the game.
I found that later revisions of the PPS-4 CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and =
the 'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
It might be /2 (chips) and /1 (chip) :-)
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the PPS-4/2 means that a =
minimal system could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined =
RAM/ROM.
So since there is only one chip in my handheld game, I guess it's a =
PPS-4/1 where I again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal =
combination is in one chip just like most micro controllers today.
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a =
"electrically alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
I would be very suprised. EAROM did exist in 1979 (I think) but it was
expensive and small capacity, It would not make sense to use it for the
firmware store of a mcirocontroller, and certainly not in a commerical
product like this.
The ROM _might_ been EPROM, but I doubt that too. Msot likely it is
masked ROM, and there bay be no way to (officially) read it out. There
may be a test mode that allows you to get access to the ROM, whether
that's docuemtned or not I don't know.
-tony
12:50 p.m.
Hello Tony
I just found, by reading the interview with the game developer, that
the game uses a custom version of a calculator chip and not directly the
THat clacualtor chip copuld still be similar in concept to a
microcontroller. I know more about dekstop calcualtors than single-chip
ones (since the former are easier to investigate), but it wasn't
uncommon for a calculator to be essentialyl a general-purpose CPU running
the right firmware.
PPS-4/1. The PPS-4 seems to be a more general purpose.
About tracing the
game doesn't bring much as the game is just a single chip and a handful
of leds. Super super simple circuit.
Sure, that's what I expected. The point is that you can sometimes
indentify an IC by the pins used for power, groubdm the clock circuit
(crystal, LC tank cirucit, whatever)m, the reset RC circuit (if there is
one) and so on. THose don't nonrmally depeend on the programming of the
mask ROM.
On a side note: I looked in to the data sheets to the
PPS-4/1 that John Robertson was kind enough to dig out of his digital hideout. The PPS-4
was actually a bit more 'sophisticated' than I first thought. One other thing that
was unexpected was that the
y are powered eg. 0 and negative 9V. I wonder why
it's like that...
Sounds as though it might be PMOS logic, which tends to use a -ve supply
voltage
-tony
25 Oct
25 Oct
8:41 a.m.
On Oct 21, 2011 12:34 PM, "Benjamin S?lberg" <benjamin.soelberg at
gmail.com wrote:
> I am also the proud owner of a Mattel
Battelstar Galatica anno 1979 week
14.
Now that's interesting, I haent come across one of these yet.
> And I found the owners manual for the game
here:
> http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Manuals/Mattel-BattlestarGalacticaManual.pdf
I'l have to take a look at this, maybe there is some other derivative in cpu
part being used here.
> But I haven't been able to find any
documentation on the PPS-4/1 chip that
I believe is used in the game.
I think that part# is some other variety since it's not a 76xx or 77xx part#
-- which indicates PPS-4/1 chipset.
> I found that later revisions of the PPS-4
CPU was labeled PPS-4/2 and the
'newest' one PPS-4/1 (one would guess that /1 was older than /2).
Yes, I thought so once too, when working on the early pinball games made by
Gottlieb. They used the PPS-4/2 chipset, the 11660 cpu and several I/O
support chips. I keep a set of these circuit boards for testing whenever
somebody needs them fixed.
I've seen Transceiver made by Masco from the 70's using this chipset too - I
forget which bands it had.
> I do believe (again from internet sources)
that the PPS-4/2 means that a
minimal system could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined
RAM/ROM.
That could be, you need the 10696EE Support chip to interface some RAM. But
this chipset still needs one of the I/O support chips, a 10696EE, A1752EF,
or 10788EB to talk with the real world :)
> So since there is only one chip in my
handheld game, I guess it's a
PPS-4/1 where I again take a wild guess that the above two chip minimal
combination is in one chip just like most micro controllers today.
Maybe this is a 4bit embedded version as in a TMS1000 found in the Big Trak.
> I am also guessing that since the chip ends
with EA it could have a
"electrically alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
None of the PPS-4 parts I've seen or have here are any 'EA' versions, only
masked Rom.
> So I would like to hear all you guys if
anyone of you could provide me
more information on the specific chip and if all my guesses are right or
wrong.
> Also if there is some way to dump the rom
(without decapping the chip).
> The end goal for me is to create an PPS-1 emulator (and possible running
the game)
Please let us know if you find some more info.
=Dan
The chip used in this vintage handheld game is labeled
B6001EA and I guess
it's a Rockwell International PPS-4/1 micro controller (a
PPS-4 cpu with
clock, ram and rom) from sources I found on the net.
From what I read about on the various rockwell PPS-4
websites, the /1
chipset is either a 76xx or 77xx part#. At the moment, I don't
recognize
your part#.
I have found very good documentation on the PPS-4 CPU
chip (note the
missing "/1" postfix) here:
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4_Data_Sheet_1974.pdf
31 Oct
31 Oct
2:38 a.m.
2011/10/25 Dan Roganti <ragooman at gmail.com>
Correct again.. I just 'wished' that I was correct on this one...
Please let us know if you find some more info.
From what I read about on the various rockwell PPS-4 websites, the /1
chipset is either a 76xx or 77xx part#. At the moment, I don't recognize
your part#.
That is understandable... Further investigation from others on this list
has shown that my part really isn't a PPS-4/1 but a custom chip based on
common ancestor calculator chip.. Bummer.
I do believe (again from internet sources) that the
PPS-4/2 means that a
minimal system could be made of two chips, a PPS-4/2 and a combined
RAM/ROM.
That could be, you need the 10696EE Support chip to interface some RAM. But
this chipset still needs one of the I/O support chips, a 10696EE, A1752EF,
or 10788EB to talk with the real world :)
One mail on this list has given me more information that 20 hours searching
the net.
I thank you all.
Maybe this is a 4bit embedded version as in a TMS1000
found in the Big
Trak.
Unfortunately no, see above... Totally custom...
I am also guessing that since the chip ends with EA it could have a
"electrically alterable" rom instead of a maskable rom.
None of the PPS-4 parts I've seen or have here are any 'EA' versions, only
masked Rom.
=Dan
I got full spec of the PPS-4 and some of the ram/rom chips in the same
family.
I was rather impressed with the complexity of the chip. I have done my
share of z80, 6501, arm, x86 but looking back on a
1972 4 bit chip and see that much has changed but then again not so much
was very enlighten.
I still get amazed about the history of electronics and space stuff.
Just think about what they did in the '60 with the space program.... thats
50 years ago..
Think about Einstein. I took me many years to just accept (& understanding
part of) normal and special relativity.
And special relativity is more than 100 years old... Amazing!
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Benjamin S?lberg
4582
days inactive
4592
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
benjamin.soelberg＠gmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
jrr＠flippers.com -
pinball＠telus.net -
ragooman＠gmail.com