24 Jan
2010
24 Jan
'10
1:06 p.m.
I was going through some of my old equipment and decided to see if my
old DDS autochanger still worked. I powered it up and, after many
whirring and "SCANNING" "LOAD 01" etc. messages, it gave me an ERROR
10.
Upon opening up the unit, I discovered that the rubber rollers that
manipulate the magazine as well those that actually feed the cassette
had turned to black goo and spread it all over the place.
Alcohol wouldn't cut the stuff, so I tried mineral spirits. Better,
but no cigar. Lamp oil was even better, but I finally settled on
Coleman Stove fuel. Not perfect, but at least I got things cleaned
up.
I'm probably not going to do the next step any time soon--replace the
now-gone rubber feed rollers. I don't need the drive (although it
can read DAT audio tapes, which is kind of interesting) as I have
other DDS drives that work just fine. Maybe a rainy-day project when
I'm looking for something to do.
Does anyone have any preferences for a goo remover? I've heard that
Ronson Lighter fluid also works well.
--Chuck
24 Jan
24 Jan
1:29 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Recurring subject: Goo removal
Does anyone have any preferences for a goo remover?
I've heard that
Ronson Lighter fluid also works well.
--Chuck
The GOO gone product line works well for most things (reminds me I need to
get some more). I like the label remover stuff they make, no idea what is
inside.
There are plenty of nasty solvents that will remove pretty much anything
organic/petroleum based (MEK for one), but they will damage the plastic and
are harmfull to humans as well.
1:40 p.m.
On Jan 24, 2010, at 1:29 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
I've found that denatured alcohol works well for a number of different things and
it's not as toxic as most solvents. It's pretty easy on most things but I've
found some inks/paint are removed by it.
TTFN - Guy
Does anyone have any preferences for a goo
remover? I've heard that
Ronson Lighter fluid also works well.
--Chuck
The GOO gone product line works well for most things (reminds me I need to get some
more). I like the label remover stuff they make, no idea what is inside.
There are plenty of nasty solvents that will remove pretty much anything
organic/petroleum based (MEK for one), but they will damage the plastic and are harmfull
to humans as well.
25 Jan
25 Jan
7:34 a.m.
On 1/24/10 1:29 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
The GOO gone product line works well for most things
(reminds me I need
to get some more). I like the label remover stuff they make, no idea
what is inside.
The "citrus based" cleaners are mostly naptha.
Material Safety Data Sheets list the ingredients.
7:48 a.m.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:34:56 -0800
From: aek at bitsavers.org
To:
Subject: Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal
On 1/24/10 1:29 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Hi
Orange oil is remarkable stuff. Besides taking off lables,
it kills ants and termites.
Actually it is the naptha loosens the stucky stuff but
it is the orange oil that keeps it from stucking back
on the surface. A good combination.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/
The GOO gone product line works well for most
things (reminds me I need
to get some more). I like the label remover stuff they make, no idea
what is inside.
The "citrus based" cleaners are mostly naptha.
Material Safety Data Sheets list the ingredients.
7:53 a.m.
dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
Orange oil is remarkable stuff. Besides taking off lables,
it kills ants and termites.
Actually it is the naptha loosens the stucky stuff but
it is the orange oil that keeps it from stucking back
on the surface. A good combination.
Dwight
SPLAT!
No I can't quite clean spam from the keyboard yet!
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/
4:11 a.m.
On Sun, 2010-01-24 13:06:33 -0800, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Upon opening up the unit, I discovered that the rubber
rollers that
manipulate the magazine as well those that actually feed the cassette
had turned to black goo and spread it all over the place.
I'm facing a similar problem. The rubber feets of some of my
DECstations and VAXstations got somewhat "fluid" and rinsed down as a
sticky, black drop. Very nasty stuff :(
Any idea how to solve that sticky stuff away?
MfG, JBG
--
Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481
Signature of: Friends are relatives you make for yourself.
the second :
6:45 a.m.
New subject: The new 1984 Apple Tablet
11:29 a.m.
On Sun, 2010-01-24 13:06:33 -0800, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
The printer platten roller in my HP9820 turned to a sticky black goo and
dripped (litereally_ onto the printer driver PCB. I cleaned it up using
propan-2-ol (not very effective), lighter fluid (naphtha, rather more
effetive) and a lot of elbow grease. It wasn't perfect at the end, but it
was a lot betterm good enough to let me replace the roller and get the
printer prining again.
-tony
Upon opening up the unit, I discovered that the
rubber rollers that
manipulate the magazine as well those that actually feed the cassette
had turned to black goo and spread it all over the place.
I'm facing a similar problem. The rubber feets of some of my
DECstations and VAXstations got somewhat "fluid" and rinsed down as a
sticky, black drop. Very nasty stuff :(
Any idea how to solve that sticky stuff away? 
1:37 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Tony Duell
Verzonden: maandag 25 januari 2010 20:29
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal
down as a
I'm using silicone degreaser, it's a special degreaser you use before you're
goint to spray paint to remove solicone's and other grease frations.
It's very effective.
-Rik
On Sun, 2010-01-24 13:06:33 -0800, Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com>
wrote:
> Upon opening up the unit, I discovered that
the rubber
rollers that
manipulate the magazine as well those that actually feed the
cassette had turned to black goo and spread it all over the place.
I'm facing a similar problem. The rubber feets of some of my
DECstations and VAXstations got somewhat "fluid" and rinsed sticky, black drop. Very nasty stuff :(
Any idea how to solve that sticky stuff away?
The printer platten roller in my HP9820 turned to a sticky
black goo and dripped (litereally_ onto the printer driver
PCB. I cleaned it up using propan-2-ol (not very effective),
lighter fluid (naphtha, rather more
effetive) and a lot of elbow grease. It wasn't perfect at the
end, but it was a lot betterm good enough to let me replace
the roller and get the printer prining again.
-tony 
10:09 a.m.
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:06:33 -0800
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I was going through some of my old equipment and
decided to see if my
old DDS autochanger still worked.
\begin{troll}
DDS and working is paradox. There is no working DDS. (Working in the
sense of "You can read back what you have written onto it.")
Don't waste your time with a DDS drive. Trash ist and you are done.
\end{troll}
Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine. (petroleum aether? Don't know
the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve many
plastics.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
11:52 a.m.
Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> writes:
Don't waste your time with a DDS drive. Trash ist
and you are done.
Unless it's one of the (fairly rare) drives that's capable of reading
audio DATs, in which case it's a very useful tool for people with a
stack of DATs to digitise. Mine's a Sony SDT-9000, scavenged from a
local school's backup server when they junked it a few years ago.
There's a decent overview here:
http://www.trygve.com/playaudiodat.html
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
1:41 p.m.
On 25 Jan 2010 at 19:52, Adam Sampson wrote:
Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
writes:
Well, I could say the same thing about DECTapes, audio cassettes,
QIC, Travan, 8mm, Pereos or even half-inch 7 or 9 track reel-to-
reel, or just about any tape for that matter. But I keep it around
because I do have lots of things on DDS and I'm not about to dedicate
the time to put them some other equally capricious medium. It's one
of about 5 DDS 4mm drives that I own, so I'm not out of luck by any
means.
And yes, this is one of the rare ones (an Archive) that does read
audio DAT. Fortunately, it can be manually fed, rather than relying
on the magazine feed.
--Chuck
Don't waste your time with a DDS drive. Trash
ist and you are done.
Unless it's one of the (fairly rare) drives that's capable of reading
audio DATs, in which case it's a very useful tool for people with a
stack of DATs to digitise. Mine's a Sony SDT-9000, scavenged from a
local school's backup server when they junked it a few years ago. 
1:18 p.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:06:33 -0800
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used to use something called
"Painter's Friend" to slightly soften the existing oil based enamel
before applying a new coat on interior trim. It contained benzene, and
I don't believe it is still available as a result. I was sorry to see
it go in a way as it worked really well. Of course I'd rather not get
cancer either...
Later,
Charlie Carothers
I was going through some of my old equipment and
decided to see if my
old DDS autochanger still worked.
\begin{troll}
DDS and working is paradox. There is no working DDS. (Working in the
sense of "You can read back what you have written onto it.")
Don't waste your time with a DDS drive. Trash ist and you are done.
\end{troll}
Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine. (petroleum aether? Don't know
the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve many
plastics.
26 Jan
26 Jan
9:22 a.m.
On 25 Jan 2010 at 15:18, CSquared wrote:
> Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine.
(petroleum aether? Don't
> know the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve
> many plastics.
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used to
use something
called "Painter's Friend" to slightly soften the existing oil based
enamel before applying a new coat on interior trim. It contained
benzene, and I don't believe it is still available as a result. I was
sorry to see it go in a way as it worked really well. Of course I'd
rather not get cancer either...
Once upon a time that threw me too, but benzine != benzene, as I
discovered. Benzine is naphta, but benzene == C6H6 == nasty stuff.
Naphta here in the US is commonly found as paint thinner. I've found
that lamp oil (light triple-filtered kerosene) works a bit better and
doesn't bother plastics. Incidentally, kerosene == paraffin in the
UK, but refers to the wax here.
English is confusing at times.
--Chuck
1:51 p.m.
New subject: Boolean opertaors (was Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal )
... and so are boolean operators.
Only recently (a few weeks ago) I discovered the meaning of "!=". Personally I
always prefer "<>" and dislike seeing "><" even though
they mean the same thing.
Or is the "<>" vs. "!=" a bit like the Return vs. Enter argument
(e.g. it depends what computer/s you were brought up/trained on).
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Tue, 26/1/10, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, 26 January, 2010, 17:22
English is confusing at times.
--Chuck
1:56 p.m.
New subject: Boolean opertaors (was Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal )
Or is the "<>" vs. "!=" a
bit like the Return vs. Enter argument
(e.g. it depends what computer/s you were brought up/trained on).
I wouldn't say that. I grew up learning Commodore BASIC, but I hardly
use it now, instead using Algol-derived languages like Perl and C which
use != (thus I use "!=" > "<>").
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I, for one, welcome our new C64 overlords. -- John Floren ------------------
2:19 p.m.
New subject: Boolean opertaors (was Re: Recurring subject: Goo removal )
On 26 Jan 2010 at 21:51, Andrew Burton wrote:
Only recently (a few weeks ago) I discovered the
meaning of "!=".
Personally I always prefer "<>" and dislike seeing "><"
even though
they mean the same thing.
Personally, I prefer .NE., but I'm a dinosaur.
--Chuck
8 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 25 Jan 2010 at 15:18, CSquared wrote:
Yep, that English to English translation tripped me right up! :) Thanks
for the enlightenment. I think I had known about the kerosene/paraffin
equivalence at one time (though I had pretty much forgotten it until you
mentioned it), but I don't recall ever seeing the benzine/naphta one
before. With the similarity of the names benzine and benzene I guess
it's really a good thing the nasty one has been banned. (Actually I
really like to "collect" the idiomatic variations in English. I think
some of the UK ones like "book a table" and "ring up your friends" are
really cool.)
When I was a youngster, we kept a 55 gallon drum of kerosene out in the
back yard. I never tried using it as a paint thinner, but I did use it
to clean oil based paint out of brushes on occasion. Of course that
kerosene (intended for burning in the kitchen range) was probably not as
pure as the lamp oil you mention.
Later,
Charlie C.
> Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine.
(petroleum aether? Don't
> know the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve
> many plastics.
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used
to use something
called "Painter's Friend" to slightly soften the existing oil based
enamel before applying a new coat on interior trim. It contained
benzene, and I don't believe it is still available as a result. I was
sorry to see it go in a way as it worked really well. Of course I'd
rather not get cancer either...
Once upon a time that threw me too, but benzine != benzene, as I
discovered. Benzine is naphta, but benzene == C6H6 == nasty stuff.
Naphta here in the US is commonly found as paint thinner. I've found
that lamp oil (light triple-filtered kerosene) works a bit better and
doesn't bother plastics. Incidentally, kerosene == paraffin in the
UK, but refers to the wax here.
English is confusing at times.
--Chuck
10:24 a.m.
Goo removal:
Try with acetone or benzine. (petroleum aether? Don't know
the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve many
plastics.
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used to use something called
"Painter's Friend" to slightly soften
the existing oil based enamel
before applying a new coat on interior trim. It contained benzene, and
I don't believe it is still available as a result. I was sorry to see
it go in a way as it worked really well. Of course I'd rather not get
cancer either...
I suspect in a lot of cases the carcinogenic risk is massively
overstated. It's probably a problem if you work with the stuff all day
every day, in large quantities. It's probably much less of a problem (if
a problem at all), if you use a little from time to time.
I've been told by somebody who darn well ought to know, for example, that
PCBs (polychorinated biphneyls, not circuit boards) probably are harmful
if you work every day on large power transformers. But the amount
contained in one high voltage capacitor is not going to kill you unless
you are really stupid with it.
Anyway, smoking is almost certainly more harmful than any of these
substances i nthe quanties they are likely to be used here, and I don't
smoke so I'll take the risk in other ways...
-tony (it's a well known fact that research causes cancer in rats)
11:25 a.m.
On 26 Jan 2010 at 18:24, Tony Duell wrote:
I suspect in a lot of cases the carcinogenic risk is
massively
overstated. It's probably a problem if you work with the stuff all day
every day, in large quantities. It's probably much less of a problem
(if a problem at all), if you use a little from time to time.
The cases that I've seen where benzene has had serious cancer
consequences are where it's gotten into the groundwater or where it's
been sloshed around without protection, such as in automotive tire-
making operations (used to adhere tire plies).
At one time it was widely used for dry cleaning, which resulted in a
lot of contamination. I can still remember benzene sold in bottles
as a spot remover, later replaced by carbon tet, also nasty.
But then, ordinary gasoline contains several carcinogenic substances.
That's why we have self-serve stations to spread the risk around.
--Chuck
1:18 p.m.
On 26 Jan 2010 at 11:34, Al Kossow wrote:
Did the laws change in Oregon? I thought self-serve
was banned there?
Yep, and for now, the oil companies seem to have given up on that
one. It's curious seeing someone from out-of-state pulling up and
trying to pump their own gas.
Are we the only state in the US with no self-serve gas? And no sales
tax?
--Chuck
1:22 p.m.
New subject: Recurring subject: Goo removal
On 1/26/10, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Are we the only state in the US with no self-serve
gas? And no sales
tax?
Self-serve is illegal in NJ, and Delaware has no sales tax.
Oregon might be the only place with both, though.
-ethan
29 Jan
29 Jan
8:54 p.m.
New subject: Recurring subject: Goo removal
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 1/26/10, Chuck Guzis<cclist at sydex.com>
wrote:
New Jersey only has sales tax on items above a certain amount. ($110?)
Peace... Sridhar
Are we the only state in the US with no
self-serve gas? And no sales
tax?
Self-serve is illegal in NJ, and Delaware has no sales tax.
Oregon might be the only place with both, though. 
8:59 p.m.
New subject: Recurring subject: Goo removal
On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:54 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
New Jersey only has sales tax on items above a certain amount.
($110?)
Is that a new thing? I grew up in NJ; there was always sales tax
regardless of the amount. I moved away in 1992.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Are we the only state in the US with no self-serve
gas? And no
sales
tax?
Self-serve is illegal in NJ, and Delaware has no sales tax.
Oregon might be the only place with both, though.
8:53 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 26 Jan 2010 at 11:34, Al Kossow wrote:
New Jersey.
Peace... Sridhar
Did the laws change in Oregon? I thought
self-serve was banned there?
Yep, and for now, the oil companies seem to have given up on that
one. It's curious seeing someone from out-of-state pulling up and
trying to pump their own gas.
Are we the only state in the US with no self-serve gas? And no sales
tax?
26 Jan
26 Jan
1:19 p.m.
But then,
ordinary gasoline contains several carcinogenic substances.
That's why we have self-serve stations to spread the risk around.
Did the laws change in Oregon? I thought self-serve was banned there? 
11:32 a.m.
On 26/01/2010 18:24, Tony Duell wrote:
At least in England, Benzene |= Benzine. Benzene is C6H6, the simplest
aromatic compound. Benzine is a mixture of hyrdrocarbons, I think
obtained for the distillation of crude oil.
Benzine used to be a common name in parts of Europe for what we call
petrol and a good number of listmembers would call gasoline. It's often
used as another name for what I call petroleum ether (which is the
lighter fractions of what you get if you distil petrol/gasoline -- pet
ether is the stuff with a low boiling point, under 60C, and therefore
not dissimilar to diethyl ether). Interestingly, perhaps, benzene used
to be a constituent of petrol/gasoline, for its anti-knock properties.
Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine. (petroleum
aether? Don't know
the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve many
plastics.
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used to use something called
-tony (it's a well known fact that research causes
cancer in rats)
LOL! yes!
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
8:44 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
At least in England, Benzene |= Benzine. Benzene is C6H6, the simplest
aromatic compound. Benzine is a mixture of hyrdrocarbons, I think
obtained for the distillation of crude oil. Many thanks to you and Chuck for
straightening me out on that point.
You're probably right, but having lost way too
many friends to cancer, I
guess I'm just overly cautious these days. One good friend got leukemia
likely due to solvents, but he was in construction so your point is
still well taken. Too, not knowing the difference in benzine and
benzene at the time, I just really felt obligated to provide a bit of a
warning - just in case it might save someone from a bad result.
Goo removal: Try with acetone or benzine. (petroleum
aether? Don't know
the english word.) Be carefull with acetone. It will dissolve many
plastics.
I believe benzene is a known carcinogen. I used to use something called
"Painter's Friend" to slightly
soften the existing oil based enamel
before applying a new coat on interior trim. It contained benzene, and
I don't believe it is still available as a result. I was sorry to see
it go in a way as it worked really well. Of course I'd rather not get
cancer either...
I suspect in a lot of cases the carcinogenic risk is massively
overstated. It's probably a problem if you work with the stuff all day
every day, in large quantities. It's probably much less of a problem (if
a problem at all), if you use a little from time to time.
I've been told by somebody who darn well ought to know, for example, that
PCBs (polychorinated biphneyls, not circuit boards) probably are harmful
if you work every day on large power transformers. But the amount
contained in one high voltage capacitor is not going to kill you unless
you are really stupid with it.
Anyway, smoking is almost certainly more harmful than any of these
substances i nthe quanties they are likely to be used here, and I don't
smoke so I'll take the risk in other ways...
Thankfully, having never started,
I never had to stop smoking, and have
not had to endure much second hand smoke in quite a long time either.
Sadly, one very good friend I lost to cancer was pretty obviously due to
his years of smoking.
-tony (it's a well known fact that research causes cancer in rats)
27 Jan
27 Jan
8:45 a.m.
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:24:23 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
Benzine is a mixture of hyrdrocarbons, I think
obtained for the distillation of crude oil.
Yes. Actually fuel / gas / gasoline /
petrol (The stuff that you fill
into your car at the gas station.) is called "Benzin" in german.
(I think Diesel is called Diesel everywhere.) The stuff that you use
for cleaning is called "washing benzine" (word to word translation)
in german. It is a lighter fraction of crude oil then gasoline.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
9:48 a.m.
On 27 Jan 2010 at 17:45, Jochen Kunz wrote:
Yes. Actually fuel / gas / gasoline / petrol (The
stuff that you fill
into your car at the gas station.) is called "Benzin" in german. (I
think Diesel is called Diesel everywhere.) The stuff that you use for
cleaning is called "washing benzine" (word to word translation) in
german. It is a lighter fraction of crude oil then gasoline. --
Otherwise known as "white gas" here in the U.S., or--wait for it--
Coleman Stove fuel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas
Which is where we started. It's not bad, but I had better results
with lamp oil/kerosene/paraffin oil.
--Chuck
9:58 a.m.
At 11:48 AM 1/27/2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 27 Jan 2010 at 17:45, Jochen Kunz wrote:
Speaking of washing, all this talk of naptha made me think of Fels-Naptha soap,
which I was surprised to learn contains Stoddard solvent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fels-Naptha
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naptha , there's a picture of Coleman camp fuel.
- John
Yes. Actually fuel / gas / gasoline / petrol (The
stuff that you fill
into your car at the gas station.) is called "Benzin" in german. (I
think Diesel is called Diesel everywhere.) The stuff that you use for
cleaning is called "washing benzine" (word to word translation) in
german. It is a lighter fraction of crude oil then gasoline. --
Otherwise known as "white gas" here in the U.S., or--wait for it--
Coleman Stove fuel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas
Which is where we started. It's not bad, but I had better results
with lamp oil/kerosene/paraffin oil.
5221
days inactive
5227
days old
33 comments
20 participants
participants (20)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ats＠offog.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
christian_liendo＠yahoo.com -
csquared3＠tx.rr.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
jbglaw＠lug-owl.de -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com