17 Feb
2013
17 Feb
'13
3:18 p.m.
I saw what I believe was a Motorola based Aviion tower in a junk pile in a scrap pile a
few years ago. I remember asking the list if anyone wanted me to retrieved it. There were
no replies.
17 Feb
17 Feb
4:05 p.m.
On 17/02/13 6:18 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
I saw what I believe was a Motorola based Aviion tower in a junk pile in a scrap pile a
few years ago. I remember asking the list if anyone wanted me to retrieved it. There were
no replies.
Damn, been looking for one forever.
--T
4:37 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au
Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:05:00 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Aviion was Re: Data General Nova
On 17/02/13 6:18 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
I own an AV-412. I used to own a 410 also, but a list member has
has it now (and you know who you are :-). The m88k was a very cool
processor.
--n0body
____________________________________________________________
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I saw what I believe was a Motorola based Aviion tower in a junk pile in
a scrap pile a few years ago. I remember asking the list if anyone
wanted me to retrieved it. There were no replies.
Damn, been looking for one forever.
--T 
5:01 p.m.
On 2/17/2013 4:37 PM, N0body H0me wrote:
It was a 410. Now it's a 500 series box with the dual 33MHz cpu in it.
Next to a certain 68000 trainer made out of wood and plexiglass it is
the second favorite box I have. Just something about the odd metal
stand that makes it even cooler than just the 88K inside.
Damn, been looking for one forever.
--T
I own an AV-412. I used to own a 410 also, but a list member has
has it now (and you know who you are :-). The m88k was a very cool
processor.
--n0body
6:08 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: mc68010 at gmail.com
Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:01:19 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: Aviion was Re: Data General Nova
On 2/17/2013 4:37 PM, N0body H0me wrote:
It was a 410. Now it's a 500 series box with the dual 33MHz cpu in it.
Next to a certain 68000 trainer made out of wood and plexiglass it is
the second favorite box I have. Just something about the odd metal
stand that makes it even cooler than just the 88K inside.
Right-- I wanted to do the 530 conversion also, but I haven't the time
for these things. Just when I think I can get something going, something
happens to mangle whats left of my life.
I'm just glad there's someone out there who enjoys these things I had
languishing in my garage...
Jeff
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
Damn, been looking for one forever.
--T
I own an AV-412. I used to own a 410 also, but a list member has
has it now (and you know who you are :-). The m88k was a very cool
processor.
--n0body
7:41 p.m.
On 2/17/2013 6:08 PM, N0body H0me wrote:
Right-- I wanted to do the 530 conversion also, but I
haven't the time
for these things. Just when I think I can get something going, something
happens to mangle whats left of my life.
I'm just glad there's someone out there who enjoys these things I had
languishing in my garage...
Jeff
I just consider it on loan so, when you find the time again let me know.
It's my ftp server until then.
I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If anyone has any technical
information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know. I need wiring
diagrams and schematics for the power supply. It is a model 2113 that
seems fine but, just doesn't turn on.
18 Feb
18 Feb
2:53 p.m.
On 02/17/2013 09:41 PM, mc68010 wrote:
I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If anyone
has any technical
information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know.
Hmm, what were the specs on a 3400? That sounds more like the re-branded
Unisys numbering; all the NCR Towers I was aware of had 3-digit model
numbers (unless by "NCR tower" you don't mean "NCR Tower" of
course :-)
cheers
Jules
4:06 p.m.
On 2/18/2013 2:53 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On 02/17/2013 09:41 PM, mc68010 wrote:
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP'
by what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the
right here http://goo.gl/r3HTl
I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If
anyone has any technical
information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know.
Hmm, what were the specs on a 3400? That sounds more like the
re-branded Unisys numbering; all the NCR Towers I was aware of had
3-digit model numbers (unless by "NCR tower" you don't mean "NCR
Tower" of course :-)
cheers
Jules
5:07 p.m.
On 02/18/2013 06:06 PM, mc68010 wrote:
On 2/18/2013 2:53 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
OK - I had a 32/700 (it's parked at NMoC these days, but I expect it's just
too big and heavy to ever ship it to my place in the US), which looks like
the 32/600 in the far right of your photo. Biggest darn single PCB I've
ever seen in any machine, I think! 68030, 32MB RAM (not including ECC),
Ethernet, couple of 8-line terminal boards, SCSI, and 2 x 300MB disks.
I don't know how much commonality there would be between the two, although
it would seem good manufacturing sense to share parts and functionality as
much as possible.
Does your system show any signs of life at all? I *think* my system needed
the large internal battery connected (and vaguely-chargeable) before it
would fire up, even though that was supposedly only there as a memory
back-up during power-fail conditions.
I've also found some old emails which suggest that I had to replace a triac
and resistor near the AC input in my machine's PSU at some point (it's been
too long that I don't recall if the machine was DoA when I got it, or if
the PSU failed later)
cheers
Jules
On 02/17/2013 09:41 PM, mc68010 wrote:
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP' by
what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the right
here http://goo.gl/r3HTl I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If
anyone has any technical
information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know.
Hmm, what were the specs on a 3400? That sounds more like the re-branded
Unisys numbering; all the NCR Towers I was aware of had 3-digit model
numbers (unless by "NCR tower" you don't mean "NCR Tower" of
course :-)
cheers
Jules
7:27 p.m.
On 2/18/2013 5:07 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
OK - I had a 32/700 (it's parked at NMoC these days, but I expect it's
just too big and heavy to ever ship it to my place in the US), which
looks like the 32/600 in the far right of your photo. Biggest darn
single PCB I've ever seen in any machine, I think! 68030, 32MB RAM
(not including ECC), Ethernet, couple of 8-line terminal boards, SCSI,
and 2 x 300MB disks.
Mine is huge too. I bet they aren't so different.
I don't know how much commonality there would be
between the two,
although it would seem good manufacturing sense to share parts and
functionality as much as possible.
Does your system show any signs of life at all? I *think* my system
needed the large internal battery connected (and vaguely-chargeable)
before it would fire up, even though that was supposedly only there as
a memory back-up during power-fail conditions.
The power supply does show some
activity when plugged in. It puts out
+6.75v to the battery and the +5v test point is up. None of the other
test points show anything. There is a switch on the PS for battery
backup power to ram. In the on position the PS fan spins but, I don't
see any other test points coming up. The +5 is getting to the power
switch and the switch is working fine.
The power switch connects by ribbon cable to the back plane. The back
plane is completely covered by a steel plate on the sides and bottom.
Without taking apart the whole machine I can't see where it is actually
going.
This originally had a bad battery with corroded terminals. I bought a
new one off ebay but, I never really checked it. It's some no name
Chinese thing. I probably need to see if it is actually fully charging
and holding it. I just plugged it in and checked and it is charging up
slowly anyway. I'll actually check the volts this time but, I left it
plugged in about 7 hours before and it still wouldn't start up when I
tried. Maybe it's a bum battery though.
I've also found some old emails which suggest that I had to replace a
triac and resistor near the AC input in my machine's PSU at some point
(it's been too long that I don't recall if the machine was DoA when I
got it, or if the PSU failed later)
This one was working fine before being turned off for many years. When I
turned it on again for the first time nothing different happened than
does now. No smoke or any sounds. Just nothing at all when I move the
switch from off to on.
7:45 p.m.
On 2/18/2013 7:27 PM, mc68010 wrote:
The power supply does show some activity when plugged
in. It puts out
+6.75v to the battery and the +5v test point is up. None of the other
test points show anything. There is a switch on the PS for battery
backup power to ram. In the on position the PS fan spins but, I don't
see any other test points coming up. The +5 is getting to the power
switch and the switch is working fine.
I just went and checked because that was all from memory and it is
actual +12 getting to the power switch. The +5 test point comes up when
the battery ram backup is turned on which makes sense. When I turn the
power switch on the +12 at the switch drops to zero.
19 Feb
19 Feb
6:32 a.m.
On 02/18/2013 09:45 PM, mc68010 wrote:
On 2/18/2013 7:27 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Hmm. I doubt that +12 is used for much on the PCBs - probably the serial
line drivers but not a lot else. The big +12V draw is probably the hard
drive(s).
I can't remember for sure where the console plugs into now, but I think
it's the main PCB which contains the CPU (was it called PMC in NCR-speak?)
- in which case, maybe see what happens if you disconnect the power to the
hard disk(s) and pull all of the boards except the main one and the memory;
I expect that the machine should be able to do something with that minimum
configuration.
cheers
Jules
The power supply does show some activity when
plugged in. It puts out
+6.75v to the battery and the +5v test point is up. None of the other
test points show anything. There is a switch on the PS for battery backup
power to ram. In the on position the PS fan spins but, I don't see any
other test points coming up. The +5 is getting to the power switch and
the switch is working fine.
I just went and checked because that was all from memory and it is actual
+12 getting to the power switch. The +5 test point comes up when the
battery ram backup is turned on which makes sense. When I turn the power
switch on the +12 at the switch drops to zero.
11:49 p.m.
On 2/19/2013 6:32 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On 02/18/2013 09:45 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Well battery is fine. It actually took all day to get up to full voltage
On 2/18/2013 7:27 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Hmm. I doubt that +12 is used for much on the PCBs - probably the
serial line drivers but not a lot else. The big +12V draw is probably
the hard drive(s).
I can't remember for sure where the console plugs into now, but I
think it's the main PCB which contains the CPU (was it called PMC in
NCR-speak?) - in which case, maybe see what happens if you disconnect
the power to the hard disk(s) and pull all of the boards except the
main one and the memory; I expect that the machine should be able to
do something with that minimum configuration. The power supply does show some activity when
plugged in. It puts out
+6.75v to the battery and the +5v test point is up. None of the other
test points show anything. There is a switch on the PS for battery
backup
power to ram. In the on position the PS fan spins but, I don't see any
other test points coming up. The +5 is getting to the power switch and
the switch is working fine.
I just went and checked because that was all from memory and it is
actual
+12 getting to the power switch. The +5 test point comes up when the
battery ram backup is turned on which makes sense. When I turn the
power
switch on the +12 at the switch drops to zero. from dead but, it seems fine now. Just for fun I
checked the power
switch with the AC plug in and out.Power switch being a small
circuit
board in the front of the machine that I haven't found a direct
connection to the PS from yet It has +12vdc at one throw with plug in.
With the AC plug out it has +5vdc on the same throw. Obviously coming
off the battery. What that means I don't know.
When I first got it I did try it with the drives and multibus boards
unplugged and it still didn't turn on.
It uses a DB15 for the console port which is odd. I assumed it was just
a serial port. Do they turn on without that console cable installed ?
20 Feb
20 Feb
4:21 p.m.
On 02/20/2013 01:49 AM, mc68010 wrote:
Well battery is fine. It actually took all day to get
up to full voltage
from dead but, it seems fine now. Just for fun I checked the power switch
with the AC plug in and out.Power switch being a small circuit board in the
front of the machine that I haven't found a direct connection to the PS
from yet It has +12vdc at one throw with plug in. With the AC plug out it
has +5vdc on the same throw. Obviously coming off the battery. What that
means I don't know.
Yeah, I wish I had my system here with me and then at least we could
compare things.
When I first got it I did try it with the drives and
multibus boards
unplugged and it still didn't turn on.
Rats.
It uses a DB15 for the console port which is odd. I
assumed it was just a
serial port.
It is RS232, NCR just used a 15 pin connector. I'm pretty sure that it
expects 9600,7E1 and the pinout is as follows:
1 TxD
2 RTS
3 DSR
4 DTR
9 RxD
10 CTS
11 sig gnd
12 DCD
I say "pretty sure" because that came from an old email, and in a follow-up
message to the guy who wrote it I mentioned that someone else had given me
different pinout information. Still, RS232 is pretty robust, so if it's
wrong then it shouldn't harm anything :-)
Do they turn on without that console cable installed ?
I'm almost certain that they do; it was a while before I got a console
hooked up to my machine and I'm pretty sure that I fired it up at the place
I got it from (disks disconnected) to make sure that it wasn't totally dead
before I took the trouble to haul it home.
cheers
Jules
19 Feb
19 Feb
6:19 a.m.
On 02/18/2013 09:27 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Have you disconnected that ribbon cable at any time? I've found an old
email which suggested that - at least with my system - there was a factory
assembly error with that cable, and one of the plugs was put on backwards.
The plugs are keyed, but one end (and I suspect it was the end nearest to
the power switch) had to be forced into its socket backwards for the system
to run.
When I disconnected that cable for some reason (probably to remove the
front panel so I could get at the drives and image them) I naturally put
the cable back "the right way round", and got myself a dead system. After
doing some head-scratching and tracing with a meter I discovered that it
had to be connected backwards for things to work.
Just a thought - I don't know if my system was unique, or if this affected
a small batch of them, or if all Towers are like this.
Does your
system show any signs of life at all? I *think* my system
needed the large internal battery connected (and vaguely-chargeable)
before it would fire up, even though that was supposedly only there as a
memory back-up during power-fail conditions.
The power supply does show some
activity when plugged in. It puts out
+6.75v to the battery and the +5v test point is up. None of the other test
points show anything. There is a switch on the PS for battery backup power
to ram. In the on position the PS fan spins but, I don't see any other test
points coming up. The +5 is getting to the power switch and the switch is
working fine.
The power switch connects by ribbon cable to the back plane. The back plane
is completely covered by a steel plate on the sides and bottom. Without
taking apart the whole machine I can't see where it is actually going. This originally had a bad battery with corroded
terminals. I bought a new
one off ebay but, I never really checked it. It's some no name Chinese
thing. I probably need to see if it is actually fully charging and holding
it. I just plugged it in and checked and it is charging up slowly anyway.
I'll actually check the volts this time but, I left it plugged in about 7
hours before and it still wouldn't start up when I tried. Maybe it's a bum
battery though.
7 hours seems too long; someone familiar with these machines once told me
that with a totally flat battery they sometimes need a half hour or so if
sitting before they'll spring into life.
cheers
Jules
18 Feb
18 Feb
11:03 p.m.
On 2/18/2013 2:53 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
That sounds indeed like a NCR Tower XP to me. I used to work on those
and in order to complete a project in time I had one at home for 2 months.
Ed
--
Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.
Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.
On 02/17/2013 09:41 PM, mc68010 wrote:
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP'
by what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the
right here http://goo.gl/r3HTl
I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If
anyone has any technical
information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know.
Hmm, what were the specs on a 3400? That sounds more like the
re-branded Unisys numbering; all the NCR Towers I was aware of had
3-digit model numbers (unless by "NCR tower" you don't mean "NCR
Tower" of course :-)
cheers
Jules
11:43 p.m.
On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP'
by what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the
right here http://goo.gl/r3HTl
That sounds indeed like a NCR Tower XP to me. I used to work on those
and in order to complete a project in time I had one at home for 2 months.
Ed
It must have been fun to compile on one of these. I imagine most of
those 2 months was was doing something else while waiting on it to finish.
19 Feb
19 Feb
12:33 a.m.
On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
Uhhhmmm, yes. Some of the work could be done in separate parts so only
a handful of files needed to be compiled.
At the end of a day (usually around 01:00 - 02:00 in the night), I would
start a 'make clean compile load test' command to do a full
compile, build & test of the stuff. That cycle took about 6 - 8 hours,
just in time before I got started again.
Ed
all the code. That took about 5 - 6 hours to complete
--
Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.
Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP'
by what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the
right here http://goo.gl/r3HTl
That sounds indeed like a NCR Tower XP to me. I used to work on those
and in order to complete a project in time I had one at home for 2
months.
Ed
It must have been fun to compile on one of these. I imagine most of
those 2 months was was doing something else while waiting on it to finish.
5:44 a.m.
On 02/19/2013 01:43 AM, mc68010 wrote:
On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
My 700 with its '030 wasn't too bad, though. It was used by IXI as a
development host for their X.desktop software, so it had a full X release
on there and yet was still reasonably capable. I suppose raw
number-crunching performance was comparable to PCs of only a year or two
later, but the Towers were packed with cache and local processors on the
various boards, so real-world multi-user performance was still pretty good.
cheers
Jules
The label says, Series: 3400 Model:2114 and nothing else. It's a large
skinny steel tower the a massive motherboard with a 68010 on it and uses
multibus boards for all the rest. I think it was called a 'NCR Tower XP'
by what I can find through google. It looks like the second from the
right here http://goo.gl/r3HTl
That sounds indeed like a NCR Tower XP to me. I used to work on those
and in order to complete a project in time I had one at home for 2 months.
Ed
It must have been fun to compile on one of these. I imagine most of those 2
months was was doing something else while waiting on it to finish. 
17 Feb
17 Feb
10:13 p.m.
A local guy has an aviion he's been trying to sell on ebay for a while:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/170657404224>
He used to be a reseller for "mission critical systems", mostly
government customers, so his prices tend to be high for collectors.
However, lately his business has been transitioning, and I suspect
he's starting to realize that he's paying lots of rent to store this
stuff and his mission critical customers have dried up.
--
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<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
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19 comments
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