22 Dec
2004
22 Dec
'04
9:19 a.m.
/me just got a early Xmas present.
I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console,
cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a
small pile of tapes for the thing..
I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally
just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and
Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw
one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?)
The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its
life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think
it'll need a day or two just to warm up.
I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at
least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the
bottom of the unit.
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they
think would be worthwhile to point me at?
Thanks,
/me goes back to poking at the innards. :-)
David
22 Dec
22 Dec
9:46 a.m.
I got what should be a relatively complete Vax
4000-300, console,
cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a
small pile of tapes for the thing..
Nice.
I don't know very little about the spec's on
the box, as I literally
just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and
Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw
one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to
make 32MB!?)
I would expect ethernet, but SCSI, while possible, is rarer. These
things usually had SDI drives (KDA50 inside, RA7x drives in the
upper bays) or DSSI (again RF7x drives in the upper bays).
It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using
a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape -
disks were not oficially supported.
The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken for
SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on
the far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI
(unless there is a KZQSA inside).
I see what appears to be at least some documentation
up on
bitsavers, at
least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little
tag at the
bottom of the unit.
The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later
backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then
you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500,
-600, 700A, -705A and maybe a few I missed along the way)
just by swapping CPU and memory. The other CPUs are KA68x
and KA69x. Lots of technical manuals available for pretty
much all of these.
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware
documentation
site's they
think would be worthwhile to point me at?
http://vt100.net indexes pretty much everything.
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
10:19 a.m.
It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box
using a
KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - disks
were not oficially supported.
Indeed.
The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken
for
SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on the
far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI
(unless there is a KZQSA inside).
The small connector is DSSI and should have a terminator installed, were
those 50-way connectors ever used for a KZQSA? I thought the board itself
had the sockets on, though thinking about it I can't remember which socket I
used to connect up an RRD42 or TLZ04/6. Should check my own machines more
often :)
The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have
the later
backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then
you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, -600,
Easiest way to check is to pop the CPU/memory module cover and pull the
boards - earlier models had the usual quad height finger/socket connection
with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while the later ones
used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the
HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules.
In other news, all the best for a quality collecting 2005!
cheers! I'm one step closer to owning an Apple Lisa 1 but unfortunately it
was upgraded to a MacXL, which I think I mentioned on here at the time.....
--
Adrian/Witchy
Creator/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private
home computer collection.
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum
www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for letting you moan about adverts!
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :(
23 Dec
23 Dec
4:05 a.m.
The VAX
4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later
backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then
you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, -600,
Easiest way to check is to pop the CPU/memory module cover
and pull the
boards - earlier models had the usual quad height
finger/socket connection
with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while
the later ones
used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the
HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules.
10:01 a.m.
with a ribbon
cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while
the later ones
used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the
HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules.
Are you sure about that? I thouht the only difference was that
more wires were connected on the later backplane. You were
supposed to be able to use anything (including a KA670) in
the later backplanes but only a KA670 in the earlier one. If the difference was physically obvious, why rely on
telling
people the serial number range to distinguish one from another
when simply looking would have done?
because end users weren't allowed to pull their machines apart to check?
Cheers,
--
adrian/witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?
1 Jan
1 Jan
11:06 a.m.
FWIW, (To restart a old thread)
I stumbled across this website.
http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/vax_faq.html
It appears the "upgradable" VAX-4300 backplane is part #54-19354-01
(As printed on the little sticker next to the right most Q-bus(?)
slot)
No serial numbers involved, but you do have to open it up. :->
Finally getting around to cleaning the VAX. The dust isn't too
bad. Nicely made machine, good steel frame. Backplane is on par w/
my Crimson's backplane. :)
Ciao,
David
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Witchy wrote:
We've got several 4000 series VAXen in the workshop and one of them has
this backplane, I'm sure it's a 4000-505 or something of that ilk. I'm
back home in Newcastle for the festivities now, but I can mail the poor
saps left at work tomorrow and ask them to check :) I can also check my
own 4500 assuming the wind doesn't stop me getting to the garage tomorrow!
Oh, the levers that hold the boards in are on some sort of ratchet
arrangement from what I remember, it's been a few months since I was last
delving into the internals.
with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect
while
the later ones
used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the
HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules.
Are you sure about that? I thouht the only difference was that
more wires were connected on the later backplane. You were
supposed to be able to use anything (including a KA670) in
the later backplanes but only a KA670 in the earlier one. If the difference was physically obvious, why
rely on telling
people the serial number range to distinguish one from another
when simply looking would have done?
because end users weren't allowed to pull their machines apart to check?
Cheers,
--
adrian/witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?
23 Dec
23 Dec
8:15 a.m.
On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 23:46 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote:
<snip>
I would expect ethernet, but SCSI, while possible, is rarer. These
things usually had SDI drives (KDA50 inside, RA7x drives in the
upper bays) or DSSI (again RF7x drives in the upper bays).
It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using
a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape -
disks were not oficially supported.
The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken for
SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on
the far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI
(unless there is a KZQSA inside).
Ah, my bad, yeah, they do look like mini 50 pin scsi connectors.
It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks were "Not
officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though?
(I've a number of varying size SCSI drives in external shoe boxes that
are easy enough to move around, and plug in. DSSI drives, well....
Unsurprisingly, I don't have any of those, should the below 3 turn out
to be boat anchors.)
I've poked around in it, and on the net enough to see what all is in
it.. Should anyone be interested..
2 RF72 1G drives.
1 RF31 380M drive.
TK70 Tape drive.
KZQSA SCSI Controller.
M7559 TQK70 Tape controller.
DELQA-SA Ethernet
CXA16-M 16 port ASYNC board.
L4000-AA KA670 CPU board.
L4001-BE 32Mb memory board (I still think that's a mighty large pile of
chips for just 32MB)
A DELNI "hub"
A DESTA thinnet adapter.
A H3104 for the CXA16 (So, only 8 of the CXA16 ports will be available.)
A C. Itoh CIT220+ terminal
I've not learned much about the juke box, other than its made by U.S.
Design, and has a HP C1718 MO drive in it.
And I believe all the necessary cables to wire it up.
The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later
backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then
you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500,
-600, 700A, -705A and maybe a few I missed along the way)
just by swapping CPU and memory. The other CPUs are KA68x
and KA69x. Lots of technical manuals available for pretty
much all of these.
That I'll have to check into..
Fortunately, I've already got a Encompass membership, and VAX/VMS 7.3.
(Is 32Mb really enough for 7.3?)
Putting it into working order will probably end up being a 2005 project
w/ my son and the holidays coming.
My thanks for the other suggestions/sites/warnings. I think I've got
enough to chew on for a bit..
Thanks all,
David
9:03 a.m.
Antonio wrote:
a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and
tape -
disks were not oficially supported.
David wrote:
It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks
were "Not
officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though?
I think you might be able to make it work by writing your own device
driver. But since you've got some DSSI drives in there (RF72, RF31),
why bother?
Eric
9:07 a.m.
It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks
were "Not
officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though?
People do report that disks (or at least, a disk) does work. But I
expect that "it boots and I logged in for a few minutes" didn't
quite cut it for DEC's engineers :-) I would expect there to be
some issues in there!
(I've a number of varying size SCSI drives in
external shoe boxes that
are easy enough to move around, and plug in. DSSI drives, well....
Unsurprisingly, I don't have any of those, should the below 3 turn out
to be boat anchors.)
I'll bet there are more DSSI drives floating around than VAXen!
Still, an HSD30 or HSD05 with a few old 20GB disks will probably
provide all the disk space you'll ever need!
L4001-BE 32Mb memory board (I still think that's a
mighty
large pile of
chips for just 32MB)
You've been spoiled by today's 256Mbit technology (actually, I think
that was yesterday's technology :-))
Fortunately, I've already got a Encompass
membership, and VAX/VMS 7.3.
(Is 32Mb really enough for 7.3?)
Well if you want to run Windows XP under the Bochs emulator then maybe
not. If you want to learn about OpenVMS and maybe do some programming,
then it will be fine. I'm still using my VAXstation 3100-76 with 32MB
under OpenVMS V7.1.
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
22 Dec
22 Dec
10:43 a.m.
Here's a couple of good place to start (I've got a 4000-300 and 4000-600)
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/
vax4000.html#section:vax4000
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/sections.html
Cheers,
Lyle
On Wednesday 22 December 2004 15:19, David Holland wrote:
/me just got a early Xmas present.
I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console,
cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a
small pile of tapes for the thing..
I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally
just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and
Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw
one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?)
The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its
life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think
it'll need a day or two just to warm up.
I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at
least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the
bottom of the unit.
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they
think would be worthwhile to point me at?
Thanks,
/me goes back to poking at the innards. :-)
David
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
10:54 a.m.
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:19:42 -0500, David Holland <dholland(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
/me just got a early Xmas present.
I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console,
cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a
small pile of tapes for the thing..
I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally
just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and
Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw
one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?)
The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its
life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think
it'll need a day or two just to warm up.
I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at
least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the
bottom of the unit.
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they
think would be worthwhile to point me at?
Thanks,
/me goes back to poking at the innards. :-)
David
If you not already a member I would suggest joining encompass (the
free one at the bottom)
http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html
and ordering the openvms hobby cd from
http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/
It takes at least a week for both, so they should be both be ready by
the time you get around to installing and playing with it.
I've now got a few 4000's and they are great fun to play with and have
the added bonus of keeping the house warm in the winter.
If you search hp.com there are product manuals and info for vax
4000's and openvms.
Dan
12:21 p.m.
The little 50pin connectors are DSSI.
SCSI adaptors typically used the 'centronics' connectors.
Nothing wrong with DSSI. I believe each drive had state
memory and its own mc68000 processr. You can log-in
to _the drive_ and inquire usage statistics and other history
from it. Not necessary, but just another fun thing to
do with
VAXes.
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware
documentation
site's they think would be worthwhile to point me at?
There is a set of files called the "dec94mds" that has a file
v4000oga.pdf in it. That file is the VAX 4000 Operations guide.
http://vt100.net/manx/ says there's 4 copies on-line
( http://vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-V4000-OG.A01 )
John A.
1:48 p.m.
On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 21:21 -0500, John Allain wrote:
The little 50pin connectors are DSSI.
SCSI adaptors typically used the 'centronics' connectors.
Nothing wrong with DSSI. I believe each drive had state
memory and its own mc68000 processr. You can log-in
to _the drive_ and inquire usage statistics and other history
from it. Not necessary, but just another fun thing to do with
VAXes.
One big warning regarding DSSI, DO NOT disconnect ANY cables with power
on.
I learned this the hard way. The server was shutdown but did still have
power. I wanted to rewire so I just pulled it out and put it back and
now nothing worked. The DEC tech was on site at the same time and
informed me that in this configuration the onboard fuse with blow just
about every time the cable is disconnected with power on.
On the DSSI terminator it's a light, if that is off - start to look for
a fuse.
/ps
Does anyone have any other suggested hardware
documentation
site's they think would be worthwhile to point me at?
There is a set of files called the "dec94mds" that has a file
v4000oga.pdf in it. That file is the VAX 4000 Operations guide.
http://vt100.net/manx/ says there's 4 copies on-line
( http://vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-V4000-OG.A01 )
John A.
7061
days inactive
7071
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
allain＠panix.com -
dholland＠woh.rr.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
peters04＠techwiz.ca -
williams.dan＠gmail.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk