25 Feb
2009
25 Feb
'09
2:51 p.m.
I've been trying to get BSD 2.11 running on my uPDP-11/73. Rather than
going the vtserver route, I thought I'd try to speed things along by
making a disk image under simh and then copying it onto a SCSI disk for
use on the PDP-11.
I successfully built a 300MB disk image under simh from the BSD 2.11
tape and then copied this onto the SCSI disk with:
dd if=bsd211.dsk of=/dev/sda
However, when I put the disk onto the -11 and try to boot DU0, it just
hangs.
Anyone know where I am going wrong?
Many thanks,
Toby
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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25 Feb
25 Feb
3:04 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know that we have finally started creating PDF's of some
of our older computing brochures.
There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7 which you might find interesting ...
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/digital-equipment-corporation-(dec…
And one on the CDC Cyber 205 :
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&p=3803
There's hundreds and hundreds more to do but at least it's a start !!!
Cheers
Jason
3:34 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
Jason Fitzpatrick wrote:
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know that we have finally started creating PDF's of some
of our older computing brochures.
There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7 which you might find interesting ...
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/digital-equipment-corporation-(dec…
And one on the CDC Cyber 205 :
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&p=3803
There's hundreds and hundreds more to do but at least it's a start !!!
Cheers
Jason
This is really cool! Thanks for the effort put into this.
Cheers,
Pontus.
3:40 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
Nice.
By the way, the last item on the Digital Equipment page is
misplaced... Digital Micro is a different company.
paul
4:40 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:40:13 -0500, Paul Koning <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> wrote:
Nice.
By the way, the last item on the Digital Equipment page is
misplaced... Digital Micro is a different company.
paul
Ahh, you're absolutely right - well spotted - have just moved it.
Thanks Paul
Jason :-)
4:34 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:57:13 -0500, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
Jason Fitzpatrick wrote:
The Centre for Computing History
www.ComputingHistory.org.uk
A Computer Museum in the UK
Jason :-)
Just a quick note to let you know that we have
finally started creating
PDF's of some of our older computing brochures.
Who is "we"?
Peace... Sridhar 
26 Feb
26 Feb
12:56 a.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Jason Fitzpatrick <jason at havnet.net> wrote:
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know that we have finally started creating PDF's of some
of our older computing brochures.
There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7 which you might find interesting ...
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/digital-equipment-corporation-(dec…
Very nice.
Are there any font historians in the audience? I'm curious what the
serif font is that DEC used back then (both on the "Digital Equipment
Corp" logo on the PDP-5, for example, and in the brochure for the
PDP-5). I'm also curious what the sans serif font is that's rendered
in color and used for headers and such in the PDP-5 brochure. To me,
at least, it really evokes a sense of the period these flyers were
designed in.
=ehan
2:24 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
From: Ethan Dicks
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:56 PM
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Jason Fitzpatrick
<jason at havnet.net>> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just a quick note to let you know that we have
finally started creating
> PDF's of some of our older computing brochures.
> There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7
which you might find interesting
> ...
Very nice.
Are there any font historians in the audience? I'm
curious what the
serif font is that DEC used back then (both on the "Digital Equipment
Corp" logo on the PDP-5, for example, and in the brochure for the
PDP-5). I'm also curious what the sans serif font is that's rendered
in color and used for headers and such in the PDP-5 brochure. To me,
at least, it really evokes a sense of the period these flyers were
designed in.
It is very likely not a typeface (a font is a package of cast metal type)
but a lettering design by an in-house artist at or hired by DEC. That's
how corporate identities are done. Or so my press-owning friends tell me.
Note that DEC changed from a design with serifs to a sans-serif between
in 1965--and the change was completed between the preliminary and final
versions of the PDP-7 Handbook (F-77), as can be seen at Bitsavers.
Rich
2:36 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
Rich Alderson wrote:
I believe that discussion was had on here a few years ago (and reached the
same conclusion) - although my memory's not telling me whether it was about
the -5 or one of the later machines...
Are there any
font historians in the audience? I'm curious what the
serif font is that DEC used back then (both on the "Digital Equipment
Corp" logo on the PDP-5, for example, and in the brochure for the
PDP-5). I'm also curious what the sans serif font is that's rendered
in color and used for headers and such in the PDP-5 brochure. To me,
at least, it really evokes a sense of the period these flyers were
designed in.
It is very likely not a typeface (a font is a package of cast metal type)
but a lettering design by an in-house artist at or hired by DEC. That's
how corporate identities are done. Or so my press-owning friends tell me. 
27 Feb
27 Feb
3:02 a.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:36:20 -0600
From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com
To:
Subject: Re: PDP PDF's !
Rich Alderson wrote:
I believe that discussion was had on here a few years ago (and reached the
same conclusion) - although my memory's not telling me whether it was about
the -5 or one of the later machines...
For what its worth, my knowledge of computer font history
The Hershey fonts
This guy did these for the navy, and maps (correct me on this)
This was a deck we all had and were going hog wild with fortran plotting
originally for plotters or vector graphics, yet I recognize these fonts in software today
for schematic capture as the exact same (Cadence Concept)
Knuth wrote an article or two in early Dr. Dobbs, about his METAFONT and how he added some
randomization capability to make the fonts look more human.
His computer modern typeset is instantly recognizable in any academic textbook.
Anybody interested in computer typesetting needs a shelf of TeX, Latex, metafont books
from Donald E. Knuth and Leslie Lamport
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009
Are there
any font historians in the audience? I'm curious what the
serif font is that DEC used back then (both on the "Digital Equipment
Corp" logo on the PDP-5, for example, and in the brochure for the
PDP-5). I'm also curious what the sans serif font is that's rendered
in color and used for headers and such in the PDP-5 brochure. To me,
at least, it really evokes a sense of the period these flyers were
designed in.
It is very likely not a typeface (a font is a package of cast metal type)
but a lettering design by an in-house artist at or hired by DEC. That's
how corporate identities are done. Or so my press-owning friends tell me. 
26 Feb
26 Feb
3:35 p.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:56:26 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote
I'm also curious what the sans serif font is
that's rendered
in color and used for headers and such in the PDP-5 brochure.
Akzidenz Grotesk and/or one of its clones.
--
Kevin Schoedel <schoedel at kw.igs.net> VA3TCS
5:31 a.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's ! well done
Hi Jason
Well done I know how hard is to get started as it took me 2 years to get
up and running with the scanning
Regards mark
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jason Fitzpatrick
Sent: 25 February 2009 20:04
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: PDP PDF's !
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know that we have finally started creating
PDF's of some of our older computing brochures.
There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7 which you might find
interesting ...
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/digital-equipment-corporation-(
dec)-3215.htm
And one on the CDC Cyber 205 :
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&p=3803
There's hundreds and hundreds more to do but at least it's a start !!!
Cheers
Jason
7:23 a.m.
New subject: PDP PDF's !
On Wednesday 25 February 2009, Jason Fitzpatrick wrote:
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know that we have finally started creating
PDF's of some of our older computing brochures.
There's some on the PDP-5, PDP-6 & PDP-7 which you might find
interesting ...
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/digital-equipment-corporation-(
dec)-3215.htm
Thanks!
BTW: The Type 30 brochure points to the type 340 PDF...
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
25 Feb
25 Feb
3:17 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Tobias Russell <toby at coreware.co.uk> wrote:
I successfully built a 300MB disk image under simh from the BSD 2.11
tape and then copied this onto the SCSI disk with:
dd if=bsd211.dsk of=/dev/sda
However, when I put the disk onto the -11 and try to boot DU0, it just
hangs.
What SCSI controller are you using on the PDP-11?
If I remember correctly you need a patch on top of the standard
2.11BSD distribution to boot using a CMD-CQD223.
3:40 p.m.
That might be the problem then, its a CQD/200M
Anyone know any details on the patch? My initial googling is drawing a
blank.
Thanks,
Toby
On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 12:17 -0800, Glen Slick wrote:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Tobias Russell
<toby at coreware.co.uk> wrote:
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
I successfully built a 300MB disk image under simh from the BSD 2.11
tape and then copied this onto the SCSI disk with:
dd if=bsd211.dsk of=/dev/sda
However, when I put the disk onto the -11 and try to boot DU0, it just
hangs.
What SCSI controller are you using on the PDP-11?
If I remember correctly you need a patch on top of the standard
2.11BSD distribution to boot using a CMD-CQD223.
5:02 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Tobias Russell <toby at coreware.co.uk> wrote:
That might be the problem then, its a CQD/200M
Anyone know any details on the patch? My initial googling is drawing a
blank.
From the description of 2.11BSD patch # 441
Description:
3. The MSCP bootblock would not work with a CMD CQD220 adaptor due
to the bootblock relying on the (undocumented?) behaviour of DEC
adaptors.
ftp://ftp.wx.gd-ais.com/pub/2.11BSD
440-445.tar.bz2
6:26 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Tobias Russell
<toby at coreware.co.uk> wrote:
Here is an rauboot.s that I think will work.
http://www.chdickman.com/pdp11/rauboot.s
I thought that it got added to the distribution, but I could be wrong.
My -11/73 has a CQD220 in it and it boots fine. I will check to see what
that bootblock code looks like.
FWIW, I used the SCSI disk method to bootstrap 2.11BSD onto my -11/73.
Although it was a bit more complex because it was before simh supported
MSCP disks.
-chuck
That might be the problem then, its a CQD/200M
Anyone know any details on the patch? My initial googling is drawing a
blank.
From the description of 2.11BSD patch # 441
Description:
3. The MSCP bootblock would not work with a CMD CQD220 adaptor due
to the bootblock relying on the (undocumented?) behaviour of DEC
adaptors.
ftp://ftp.wx.gd-ais.com/pub/2.11BSD
440-445.tar.bz2
26 Feb
26 Feb
8:18 a.m.
Thanks, that revised rauboot file got things moving. I'm now at a shell
prompt.
A new mystery though, a df reveals all available disks space (300MB) is
used. Deleting files does free up space, but there should definitely by
far more free space than this.
Under simh, a df on the image shows 41582 blocks used out of 284405
(15%)
On the real machine, df shows 282742 out of 284405 blocks used.
I've run fsck to see if this would resolve, but no joy.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Toby
On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 18:26 -0500, Charles H Dickman wrote:
Glen Slick wrote:
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Tobias Russell
<toby at coreware.co.uk> wrote:
Here is an rauboot.s that I think will work.
http://www.chdickman.com/pdp11/rauboot.s
I thought that it got added to the distribution, but I could be wrong.
My -11/73 has a CQD220 in it and it boots fine. I will check to see what
that bootblock code looks like.
FWIW, I used the SCSI disk method to bootstrap 2.11BSD onto my -11/73.
Although it was a bit more complex because it was before simh supported
MSCP disks.
-chuck
That might be the problem then, its a CQD/200M
Anyone know any details on the patch? My initial googling is drawing a
blank.
From the description of 2.11BSD patch # 441
Description:
3. The MSCP bootblock would not work with a CMD CQD220 adaptor due
to the bootblock relying on the (undocumented?) behaviour of DEC
adaptors.
ftp://ftp.wx.gd-ais.com/pub/2.11BSD
440-445.tar.bz2
8:32 p.m.
Tobias Russell wrote:
I've been trying to get BSD 2.11 running on my
uPDP-11/73. Rather than
going the vtserver route, I thought I'd try to speed things along by
making a disk image under simh and then copying it onto a SCSI disk for
use on the PDP-11.
I successfully built a 300MB disk image under simh from the BSD 2.11
tape and then copied this onto the SCSI disk with:
dd if=bsd211.dsk of=/dev/sda
However, when I put the disk onto the -11 and try to boot DU0, it just
hangs.
Does it boot cleanly from simh?
What type of scsi controller are you using? I seem to recall some brands
of mscp scsi cards (like one I have) require a "fix" to the boot loader
otherwise they hang. my brain is fried but I think it's raboot.
your technique should work. I've done it. But I had to patch the boot
loader (raboot) and recompile it (using simh as I recall) and reinstall
it. I found a site on the web (probably someone here :-) detailing it.
I can dig up the file if you need. I can also send you a binary of the
loader.
If you are board you can toggle in raboot with the patch. Or, you
should be able to halt the machine and look at the pc and single step...
which '11?
-brad
5624
days inactive
5626
days old
19 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
brad＠heeltoe.com -
chd_1＠nktelco.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jason＠havnet.net -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
Mark.Brennan＠ie.fujitsu.com -
Paul_Koning＠Dell.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
pontus＠update.uu.se -
rdawson16＠hotmail.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
schoedel＠kw.igs.net -
toby＠coreware.co.uk