21 Mar
2006
21 Mar
'06
10:40 p.m.
Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of whats
in it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is it a
decent machine for running latest AIX versions?
Thanks
David Barnes
davebarnes AT adelphia DOT net
OpenVMS , Tru64 , Solaris , Linux , OS X , SGI Irix
21 Mar
21 Mar
10:59 p.m.
At 10:40 PM -0500 3/21/06, David Barnes wrote:
Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of
whats in it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is it
a decent machine for running latest AIX versions?
It was *old* and slow when I had one on my desk in '96. I've a
feeling you can easily pick something up more capable of running the
latest versions of AIX fairly cheap. Someone else will have to
comment on if it can even run current AIX versions.
While it was old and slow, it was rock solid, so I actually resisted
replacing it with a PC for about three years.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
22 Mar
22 Mar
8:10 a.m.
Zane.. thats what I thought.. thanks for the info...
David Barnes
davebarnes AT adelphia DOT net
OpenVMS , Tru64 , Solaris , Linux , OS X , SGI Irix
On Mar 21, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 10:40 PM -0500 3/21/06, David Barnes wrote:
Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of
whats in it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is
it a decent machine for running latest AIX versions?
It was *old* and slow when I had one on my desk in '96. I've a
feeling you can easily pick something up more capable of running
the latest versions of AIX fairly cheap. Someone else will have to
comment on if it can even run current AIX versions.
While it was old and slow, it was rock solid, so I actually
resisted replacing it with a PC for about three years.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | 
12:36 a.m.
David Barnes wrote:
Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of whats in
it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is it a decent
machine for running latest AIX versions?
Pretty nice machine. 62.5MHz POWER, if I'm not quite mistaken. Won't
run the latest version of AIX, but will run 5.1.
Peace... Sridhar
12:40 a.m.
At 12:36 AM -0500 3/22/06, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Pretty nice machine. 62.5MHz POWER, if I'm not
quite mistaken.
Won't run the latest version of AIX, but will run 5.1.
Peace... Sridhar
That sounds about right for spec's, also it's narrow SCSI.
What is the latest version of AIX?
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:26 a.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 12:36 AM -0500 3/22/06, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
5.3.
Peace... Sridhar
Pretty nice machine. 62.5MHz POWER, if I'm
not quite mistaken. Won't
run the latest version of AIX, but will run 5.1.
Peace... Sridhar
That sounds about right for spec's, also it's narrow SCSI.
What is the latest version of AIX? 
12:52 a.m.
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
David Barnes wrote:
Well, the 7012-370 will *walk* v5.1. Verry verry slowly.
BTW, I bought a pallet of 7043-140 boxes last week at $8/ea for the
graphics adapers (GXT120P) and the PCNET32 10/100 cards. I'm sure the
scrapper thought he was ripping me off by burying a much older system at
the bottom.
It's a 7012-397 w/512MB RAM, 2 4.5GB drives, CDROM and 8505 8mm tape
drive, GXT800M and a 10/100 ethernet adapter. And with the deskside "foot".
I wasn't too upset about the ripoff. :)
And, if anybody has a 43P-140 and needs RAM, I have a crapload of
64MB DIMMs. As far as I know, *only* the 7043-140 will run them.
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any non-CHRP platform. The
7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest systems that'll run v5.2
or v5.2.
Doc
Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of whats
in it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is it a
decent machine for running latest AIX versions?
Pretty nice machine. 62.5MHz POWER, if I'm not quite mistaken. Won't
run the latest version of AIX, but will run 5.1. 
1:26 a.m.
Hmm...what is the oldest (i.e. affordable) model to run v5.3 then?
Ok. Don't even need to "run", perhaps a brisk walk will do, then. :-)
(have been thinking of playing with AIX..)
On 3/22/06, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Doc Shipley wrote:
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any
non-CHRP platform. The
7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest systems that'll run v5.2
or v5.2.
Arghh. That should be "v5.2 or v5.3"
v5.3 is the current release.
Doc
1:39 a.m.
Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
Hmm...what is the oldest (i.e. affordable) model to
run v5.3 then?
Ok. Don't even need to "run", perhaps a brisk walk will do, then. :-)
(have been thinking of playing with AIX..)
7043-150, aka 43P-150. That or an F50 will probably be the cheapest.
the 43P is a desktop form-factor; F50 is a pretty hefty deskside.
Both are likely to be able to run the next couple of releases.
Doc
1:48 a.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
I forgot to mention that in this context, when IBM says "unsupported"
they don't mean "we don't want to hear about it". They mean "This
machine will not boot into AIX v5.2 or v5.3, because all support for the
system bus has been removed from the kernel."
Now, since I am having trouble hanging onto a thought with a lasso
tonight, I'll let Sridhar have it. :)
Doc
Hmm...what is the oldest (i.e. affordable) model
to run v5.3 then?
Ok. Don't even need to "run", perhaps a brisk walk will do, then. :-)
(have been thinking of playing with AIX..)
7043-150, aka 43P-150. That or an F50 will probably be the cheapest.
the 43P is a desktop form-factor; F50 is a pretty hefty deskside. Both
are likely to be able to run the next couple of releases.
8:29 a.m.
Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
Hmm...what is the oldest (i.e. affordable) model to
run v5.3 then?
Ok. Don't even need to "run", perhaps a brisk walk will do, then. :-)
(have been thinking of playing with AIX..)
Why 5.3, specifically? Unless you have a specific reason to run it, why
bother?
Peace... Sridhar
8:48 a.m.
Hey Doc,
I have a couple of IBM systems that I would like to run AIX on, is
there a good reference site that has this info? This is good to know
so I don't waste my time.
Thanks
Rob
On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Doc Shipley wrote:
Doc Shipley wrote:
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any
non-CHRP platform.
The 7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest systems
that'll run v5.2 or v5.2.
Arghh. That should be "v5.2 or v5.3"
v5.3 is the current release.
Doc
9:01 a.m.
Robert Borsuk wrote:
Hey Doc,
I have a couple of IBM systems that I would like to run AIX on, is
there a good reference site that has this info? This is good to know so
I don't waste my time.
There used to be RSINFO-6000, but it dropped off the earth a while ago,
and it isn't completely stored in the WayBack machine.
Ask me anything you want about your machines. I don't mind answering.
Peace... Sridhar
9:09 a.m.
Sorry. I should have said Doc and/or Sridhar.
Rob
On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Robert Borsuk wrote:
Hey Doc,
I have a couple of IBM systems that I would like to run AIX on, is
there a good reference site that has this info? This is good to
know so I don't waste my time.
Thanks
Rob
On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Doc Shipley wrote:
Doc Shipley wrote:
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any
non-CHRP
platform. The 7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest
systems that'll run v5.2 or v5.2.
Arghh. That should be "v5.2 or v5.3"
v5.3 is the current release.
Doc
9:25 a.m.
Robert Borsuk wrote:
Sorry. I should have said Doc and/or Sridhar.
And Pat Finnegan. :) I think Pat has a reasonably complete chart of
the various RS/6000 and pSeries machines, with CPU type, latest version
of AIX supported, etc.
The easiest rule of thumb for non-rack-mount systems is that if it's
black, it'll probably run AIX v5.3. If it's beige, it'll run up to
v5.1, FSVO "run".
Off the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
What a concept, eh?
Doc
9:36 a.m.
Off the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about
OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
And I think they're right. After using AIX in a corporate environment, I've
come rather to like it.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- UBAX vs lbh ybir EBG-13 ----------------------------------------------------
9:47 a.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
That's what I was saying for years. No one listened to me. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
Off the
record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
And I think they're right. After using AIX in a corporate environment, I've
come rather to like it. 
10:24 a.m.
There's a few of us who liked it enough to wish IBM ported it to the PC
platform again.
It's a bit wierd compared to Solaris or HP-UX... but it's solid as a rock.
By 4.1.3 it was really well worked out.
The 3.2.5 stuff was ok... earlier than that was a bit shaky.
There were major changes in the earlier 4.x versions.
Unfortunately, my job at IBM went away so I had to go to running Solaris,
FreeBSD and Linux for a living.
Bill
On 3/22/06, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I've
Off
the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
And I think they're right. After using AIX in a corporate environment, come rather to like it.
That's what I was saying for years. No one listened to me. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
10:31 a.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
Off the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about
OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
Don't try this with OS/390 or z/OS, though, as that side of IBM is
concerned and doesn't want anyone running a copy that's not paid
for and licensed.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman at dittman.net
1:24 p.m.
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 07:31, Eric Dittman wrote:
Doc Shipley wrote:
While it's true that OS/390 and z/OS are licensed products - IBM has released
MVS 3.8J including JES3 for non-comercial use:
http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/
http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/cookbook/index.html
BTW: This is a great emulator. I've seen IBM demo mainframe middleware on a
laptop using this "product". I've downloaded it (ISO CD) and installed it.
It's a blast to play with....
VM can be downloaded here:
http://www.boglob.co.uk/vmdist.html
I haven't tried the VM yet...
Cheers,
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
Off the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned
about OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
Don't try this with OS/390 or z/OS, though, as that side of IBM is
concerned and doesn't want anyone running a copy that's not paid
for and licensed. 
1:59 p.m.
Rumor has it that Lyle Bickley may have mentioned these words:
While it's true that OS/390 and z/OS are licensed
products - IBM has released
MVS 3.8J including JES3 for non-comercial use:
http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/
http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/cookbook/index.html
...
Holy crap. If only I had time to get out my old EDS dox on that stuff... I
used to use VM, MVS & OS/400 (and diddled on a few *early* suns) on various
big iron back in '89-90... IBM 3090's, Amdahl 3890's and they had a few
massively overworked AS/400's...
Lotsa 100 MIPS boxen w/128M to 512Meg RAM there - that was when 3 MIPS in a
home computer was *booming*. ;-)
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy...
zmerch at 30below.com | ...in oxymoron!"
11:15 a.m.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:25:05AM -0600, Doc Shipley wrote:
Robert Borsuk wrote:
Unfortunately, my web site is down for the moment - I had some raid
issues with the machine, and am moving it to another one now; it should
be up later today or tomorrow.
At least I had backups. :)
Sorry. I should have said Doc and/or Sridhar.
And Pat Finnegan. :) I think Pat has a reasonably complete chart of
the various RS/6000 and pSeries machines, with CPU type, latest version
of AIX supported, etc. The easiest rule of thumb for non-rack-mount systems
is that if it's
black, it'll probably run AIX v5.3. If it's beige, it'll run up to
v5.1, FSVO "run".
Except that the 43P-150, and F50 are beige but are also CHRP (will run >
5.1), and SP nodes are all either black or silver, depending on how you
look at them. :)
Oh, and add the H50 to that list (it's a rackmount version of the F50 -
we have a few at work).
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
2:21 p.m.
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:15:11 -0500
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote:
Except that the 43P-150, and F50 are beige
I
don't know about the F50, but the 43P-150 is certainly black. I own
two of them. (And two 43P-140, a 43P-100, a 40P, a C10 and a B50) The
B50 is black too and BTW contains the same main board (AFAIK "planar" in
IBM speak) as the 43P-150.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
1:11 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Doc Shipley once stated:
Off the record, IBM is amazingly unconcerned about OS "piracy", as
long as it's not for commercially-used systems. Their attitude is that
the more exposure people get to AIX, the more hardware and service
contracts they'll sell.
What a concept, eh?
And the fact that the hardware to run AIX is only available at IBM has
nothing to do with this, right?
-spc (I liked AIX when I had to work with it. Beat some of the other
alternatives ... )
8:28 a.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Hehehe. You have a point.
David Barnes wrote:
Well, the 7012-370 will *walk* v5.1. Verry verry slowly. Hello all;
I have been offered an RS/6000 Powerstation 370. Not sure of whats
in it yet... can anyone shed some light on this system? Is it a
decent machine for running latest AIX versions?
Pretty nice machine. 62.5MHz POWER, if I'm not quite mistaken. Won't
run the latest version of AIX, but will run 5.1. BTW, I bought a pallet of 7043-140 boxes last week
at $8/ea for the
graphics adapers (GXT120P) and the PCNET32 10/100 cards. I'm sure the
scrapper thought he was ripping me off by burying a much older system at
the bottom.
It's a 7012-397 w/512MB RAM, 2 4.5GB drives, CDROM and 8505 8mm tape
drive, GXT800M and a 10/100 ethernet adapter. And with the deskside
"foot".
Nice find.
I wasn't too upset about the ripoff. :)
And, if anybody has a 43P-140 and needs RAM, I have a crapload of
64MB DIMMs. As far as I know, *only* the 7043-140 will run them.
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any non-CHRP platform. The
7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest systems that'll run v5.2
or v5.2.
It's a shame, really.
Peace... Sridhar
27 Mar
27 Mar
7:48 a.m.
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Doc Shipley wrote:
Well, the 7012-370 will *walk* v5.1. Verry verry
slowly.
BTW, I bought a pallet of 7043-140 boxes last week at $8/ea for the graphics
adapers (GXT120P) and the PCNET32 10/100 cards. I'm sure the scrapper thought
he was ripping me off by burying a much older system at the bottom.
It's a 7012-397 w/512MB RAM, 2 4.5GB drives, CDROM and 8505 8mm tape drive,
GXT800M and a 10/100 ethernet adapter. And with the deskside "foot".
I wasn't too upset about the ripoff. :)
And, if anybody has a 43P-140 and needs RAM, I have a crapload of 64MB
DIMMs. As far as I know, *only* the 7043-140 will run them.
AIX v5.1 was the last version to support any non-CHRP platform. The
7043-150 (43P-150), F50, and B50 are the oldest systems that'll run v5.2 or
v5.2.
Do you know if my 7248-133 can run AIX 5.1? I cannot seem to find much of
any information on this system, which is setup with AIX 4.3.3 at the
moment.
Also, if anyone has a 100-BaseTx capable PCI ethernet adapter for this
beast, I'd be interested. Ditto for a set of ISO images of AIX 5.1
(assuming it can boot it).
Steve
8:17 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:48:10 -0500 (EST)
"Steven N. Hirsch" <shirsch at adelphia.net> wrote:
Do you know if my 7248-133 can run AIX 5.1? I cannot
seem to find
much of any information on this system, which is setup with AIX 4.3.3
at the moment.
Sure can, it's what I've got on mine at the moment.
Also, if anyone has a 100-BaseTx capable PCI ethernet
adapter for
this beast, I'd be interested.
You're probably looking for one of the '9-P' Ethernet cards.
-Ryan
9 a.m.
Steven N. Hirsch wrote:
Do you know if my 7248-133 can run AIX 5.1? I cannot
seem to find much of
any information on this system, which is setup with AIX 4.3.3 at the
moment.
A 7248 can definitely run AIX 5.1. It runs AIX 5.1 very slowly.
It absolutely cannot run AIX 5.2.
Also, if anyone has a 100-BaseTx capable PCI ethernet
adapter for this
beast, I'd be interested. Ditto for a set of ISO images of AIX 5.1
(assuming it can boot it).
There are a bunch of third party ones that have AIX drivers available.
Many of them can't be used for net-booting, but that usually isn't a
problem. Just look around.
Peace... Sridhar
10:23 a.m.
Steven N. Hirsch wrote:
Do you know if my 7248-133 can run AIX 5.1? I cannot
seem to find much of
any information on this system, which is setup with AIX 4.3.3 at the
moment.
It will, but it'll be horribly slow. The memory limitations and the
disk subsystem compete to be the main bottleneck on that box. I
personally would stick with 4.3.3.
The 7248 is the first 43P, and you've already found that IBM just
barely admits it ever existed. You'll probably find more information
about the physical system in the LinuxPPC community.
Also, if anyone has a 100-BaseTx capable PCI ethernet
adapter for this
beast, I'd be interested. Ditto for a set of ISO images of AIX 5.1
(assuming it can boot it).
How many would you like?
Seriously, I have a large stack of "Type 9-P" IBM 10/100 cards. $15
shipped inside the US.
Doc
2:58 p.m.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:23:37 -0600
Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Seriously, I have a large stack of "Type
9-P" IBM 10/100 cards.
$15 shipped inside the US.
ARGL. Are these the cards with the fscked up AMD
PCnet chips?
(IBM changed the PCI vendor ID of those cards to make ordinary PeeCee
cards incompatible with AIX. That gave me some headache when I stated to
port NetBSD to a 43P-150.)
If someone in Germany (EU) needs one of this cards: IIRC there are
still some of them in my PCI card box...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
6:35 p.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:23:37 -0600
Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
The very one... However, it's a beefier adapter than the alternative
Seriously, I have a large stack of "Type
9-P" IBM 10/100 cards.
$15 shipped inside the US.
ARGL. Are these the cards with the fscked up AMD PCnet chips?
(IBM changed the PCI vendor ID of those cards to make ordinary PeeCee
cards incompatible with AIX. That gave me some headache when I stated to
port NetBSD to a 43P-150.) from 3Com (based on the 3C595 chip IIRC), and it's
still supported in
AIX >5.0, whereas the 3Com card isn't.
What's the graphics support like on the -150 in NetBSD? Are the
Matrox-based cards supported?
Doc
29 Mar
29 Mar
3:29 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:35:34 -0600
Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
What's the graphics support like on the -150 in
NetBSD?
NetBSD does not run at all on the -150. I stated to port NetBSD/ofppc to
the IBM CHRP machines but encountered technical problems. Other things
became more important... so it lingered for about a year. I continued
that project just recently as I got some help with the problematic
parts. If we are in luck, we may get somthing usefull within a month or
two.
Are the Matrox-based cards supported?
This may
never happen. I don't have a clue about X11 hacking and I am
not interrested in learning it. I.e. I leave that to other people as I
can't do everything myself. So all depends on someone to show up and do
the job.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
3:07 p.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
Not a big deal, really. All my RS/6K systems run mostly headless,
anyhow.
Doc
NetBSD does not run at all on the -150. I stated to
port NetBSD/ofppc to
the IBM CHRP machines but encountered technical problems. Other things
became more important... so it lingered for about a year. I continued
that project just recently as I got some help with the problematic
parts. If we are in luck, we may get somthing usefull within a month or
two.
Cool. I have a couple of CHRP models - a -150 and a 43P-260 - that
are primarily AIX and Linux testbeds. Won't be hard to add a NetBSD
drive to either if you need testing done. Hit me offlist if there's
anything I can do.
Are the
Matrox-based cards supported?
This may never happen. I don't have a clue about X11 hacking and I am
not interrested in learning it. I.e. I leave that to other people as I
can't do everything myself. So all depends on someone to show up and do
the job.
6672
days inactive
6679
days old
33 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
blairrya＠msu.edu -
davebarnes＠adelphia.net -
dittman＠dittman.net -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pechter＠gmail.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
rborsuk＠colourfull.com -
shirsch＠adelphia.net -
spc＠conman.org -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
waisun.chia＠gmail.com -
zmerch＠30below.com