29 Nov
2005
29 Nov
'05
5:08 p.m.
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety mac just... lying around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
I ask because I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a machine
isn't old enough to be compatible with older software, but isn't new enough to
be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this category -- can't run old stuff, can't
run new stuff, so toss it in the garbage).
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
29 Nov
29 Nov
5:28 p.m.
Depends on what kind of machines you like collecting.
Personally I think the SE/30 was one of the best compact macs made (B&W
anyway) and would not mind having one. 603's would be in the give away
category for the most part, while LC/IIsi have fans but were never the best
machines of the era.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:08 PM
Subject: "Market" for old macs?
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety
mac just... lying
around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag
them?
I ask because I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a
machine
isn't old enough to be compatible with older
software, but isn't new
enough to
be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this category --
can't run old stuff,
can't
run new stuff, so toss it in the garbage).
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)
http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project?
http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at
http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
5:45 p.m.
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety
mac just... lying around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
SE/30s are people's favourite Classic Macs because they're small and pretty
zippy for the time (16MHz '030). You can put a crapload of RAM into them and
a nice-sized SCSI hard disk and turn it into a lil' file server. I've seen
SE/30s crammed into closets doing AppleShare print services, for example, and
on my old LocalTalk apartment network, my SE/30 served boot blocks for the
IIgs systems to netboot. They run NetBSD and Linux superbly well. As a result,
they are getting harder to find since people tend to hoard them. They'll fit
anywhere you can find room.
The IIci is my favourite but they're not nearly as "cute" and so
they're
pretty common. I like them because they have a PDS slot, three NuBus slots,
can take up to 128MB of RAM, and can accomodate a full-height SCSI drive.
They also stack really well and are easy to open up and service. The 25MHz
'030 is quite decent, and they also run NetBSD and Linux nicely too. And most
places are getting rid of them cheap -- my last set of IIcis was 3 for $1.
The LC is a nothing Mac IMHO, useful mostly only as a collector's completist
piece. They didn't do real well against the rest of the line even when they
were new. They're also pretty common and cheap for this reason.
Similarly, 603-based Power Macs sort of live in a grey zone as most of them
were Performas and so, frankly, they sucked. There's a few PCI-based ones
but most of them were NuBus (if that) and had seriously compromised hardware
designs. I'd pass on these. If you want an old-school Power Mac, get a 7300,
7500 (upgrade to a 604 or better as soon as you can, though), or a 7600. All
of these have CPU upgrade paths, PCI slots, lots of space for RAM, multiple
drive bays and one of the nicest cases to work in ever created. They will
also run OS 9 and with a little cajoling, can even run some versions of OS X.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I don't care who you are, stop walking on the water when I'm fishing!
<>< --
5:55 p.m.
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
SE/30s are people's favourite Classic Macs because
they're small and pretty
zippy for the time (16MHz '030). You can put a crapload of RAM into them and
a nice-sized SCSI hard disk and turn it into a lil' file server. I've seen
SE/30s crammed into closets doing AppleShare print services, for example, and
on my old LocalTalk apartment network, my SE/30 served boot blocks for the
IIgs systems to netboot. They run NetBSD and Linux superbly well. As a result,
they are getting harder to find since people tend to hoard them. They'll fit
anywhere you can find room.
But you have to arrange them just right if you want to stack a lot of
them.
6:04 p.m.
SE/30s are
people's favourite Classic Macs because they're small [...]
But you have to arrange them just right if you want to stack a lot of
them. 
6:51 p.m.
I have a Fat Mac, an SE/30 and a fully-loaded IIci and that covers my needs
nicely, enabling me to move archived software back and forth. For file
storage, I have an Ethernet card in the IIci and Services for Macintosh
running on my NT Server. This looks like an AppleTalk zone to the IIci and
enables me to easily archive software.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:45 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: "Market" for old macs?
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety
mac just... lying
around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
SE/30s are people's favourite Classic Macs because they're small and pretty
zippy for the time (16MHz '030). You can put a crapload of RAM into them and
a nice-sized SCSI hard disk and turn it into a lil' file server. I've seen
SE/30s crammed into closets doing AppleShare print services, for example,
and on my old LocalTalk apartment network, my SE/30 served boot blocks for
the IIgs systems to netboot. They run NetBSD and Linux superbly well. As a
result, they are getting harder to find since people tend to hoard them.
They'll fit anywhere you can find room.
The IIci is my favourite but they're not nearly as "cute" and so
they're
pretty common. I like them because they have a PDS slot, three NuBus slots,
can take up to 128MB of RAM, and can accomodate a full-height SCSI drive.
They also stack really well and are easy to open up and service. The 25MHz
'030 is quite decent, and they also run NetBSD and Linux nicely too. And
most places are getting rid of them cheap -- my last set of IIcis was 3 for
$1.
The LC is a nothing Mac IMHO, useful mostly only as a collector's completist
piece. They didn't do real well against the rest of the line even when they
were new. They're also pretty common and cheap for this reason.
Similarly, 603-based Power Macs sort of live in a grey zone as most of them
were Performas and so, frankly, they sucked. There's a few PCI-based ones
but most of them were NuBus (if that) and had seriously compromised hardware
designs. I'd pass on these. If you want an old-school Power Mac, get a 7300,
7500 (upgrade to a 604 or better as soon as you can, though), or a 7600. All
of these have CPU upgrade paths, PCI slots, lots of space for RAM, multiple
drive bays and one of the nicest cases to work in ever created. They will
also run OS 9 and with a little cajoling, can even run some versions of OS
X.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/
---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I don't care who you are, stop walking on the water when I'm fishing!
<><
--
8:48 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I'm surprised by this statement; I despise the SE/30s because they run TOO fast
and are an '030 -- both of which are a deadly combination for trying to get old
games to run. The 16MHz is too fast, but just in case, the '030's cache
completely screws up any self-modifying code tricks.
The rest of your email was helpful and informative, thank you.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
At work I have
an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety mac just... lying around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
SE/30s are people's favourite Classic Macs because they're small and pretty
zippy for the time (16MHz '030). You can put a crapload of RAM into them and
9:16 p.m.
SE/30s are
people's favourite Classic Macs because they're small and pretty
zippy for the time (16MHz '030).
I'm surprised by this statement; I despise the SE/30s because they run
TOO fast and are an '030 -- both of which are a deadly combination for
trying to get old games to run.
10 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
game seems to run at closer to the right speed (but no
sound, of course,
because Zero Gravity used parts of the original sound system that were removed
when the Compact Mac line was phased out).
Last trivia question for the day/night: I own Studio Session (the reason I
keep a mac 512 around) and I swear I am hearing 6 digital voices from it
simultaneously. I was under the impression that the Mac sound hardware was
only 4 digital voices, and that the extra 2 voices were done via realtime
mixing on two of the channels -- however, literature from the time claim that
Jam Session/Studio Session use "hardware tricks" to get the extra 2 voices.
Who is right?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
10:14 p.m.
Last trivia question for the day/night: I own Studio
Session (the reason I
keep a mac 512 around) and I swear I am hearing 6 digital voices from it
simultaneously. I was under the impression that the Mac sound hardware was
only 4 digital voices, and that the extra 2 voices were done via realtime
mixing on two of the channels -- however, literature from the time claim that
Jam Session/Studio Session use "hardware tricks" to get the extra 2 voices.
Who is right?
Neither really. The original Mac sound hardware had four *synthesis* voices,
which could be fed a waveform and act as a primitive wavetable synthesizer.
This produces four-note polyphony.
The other possibility is to drive the sound chip in "free form" mode, which
is basically conventional PCM audio output. I don't know Studio Session well,
but I suspect it just does the mixdown in software and plays the music out
in this mode instead of using the synthesizer.
Look at
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.09/09.03/Sound101/
"Ancient History" and then for some actual code examples,
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.02/02.02/SoundMadeSimple/
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Don't let 'em drive you crazy when it's within walking distance.
-----------
30 Nov
30 Nov
10:08 a.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Neither really. The original Mac sound hardware had
four *synthesis* voices,
Actually, according to the articles you provided, the Mac sound hardware
appears to be a simple fixed-rate DAC that plays back exactly 22,200 bytes per
second, and all of those "modes" are just variations on "calc a buffer and
feed
it to the DAC". Knowing that, and how it is programmed, I am now extremely
impressed by Studio Session (it must have mixed 6 digital voices realtime).
I've written "mod" players before but the most I've ever gotten out of
7MHz was
4 voices, and at half that rate. (No doubt the 32-bit registers, and more of
them, are a big help on the mac, but still...)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
4:30 p.m.
Last trivia question for the day/night: I own
Studio Session (the reason I
keep a mac 512 around) and I swear I am hearing 6 digital voices from it
simultaneously. I was under the impression that the Mac sound hardware was
only 4 digital voices, and that the extra 2 voices were done via realtime
mixing on two of the channels -- however, literature from the time claim that
Jam Session/Studio Session use "hardware tricks" to get the extra 2 voices.
Who is right?
Neither really. The original Mac sound hardware had four *synthesis* voices,
which could be fed a waveform and act as a primitive wavetable synthesizer.
This produces four-note polyphony.
5:27 p.m.
Neither
really. The original Mac sound hardware had four *synthesis* voices,
which could be fed a waveform and act as a primitive wavetable synthesizer.
This produces four-note polyphony.
I don't know what you consider to be 'original Mac', but the Mac+ sound
hardware was a pulse-width modulator loaded from a spare byte in the
video RAM area at the end of each video line.
1 Dec
1 Dec
2:36 p.m.
I don't
know what you consider to be 'original Mac', but the Mac+ sound
hardware was a pulse-width modulator loaded from a spare byte in the
video RAM area at the end of each video line.
I think we're looking at this from different angles. I'm looking at it from
the view of what the Toolbox offers for music playback and synthesis; it
seems you and Jim are actually talking about what the Toolbox is driving.
3:34 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I think we're looking at this from different angles. I'm looking at it from
the view of what the Toolbox offers for music playback and synthesis; it
seems you and Jim are actually talking about what the Toolbox is driving.
Yes. I'm primarily a software tinkerer. I don't design the hardware but I
sure love to make it do things it wasn't originally intended to do :-)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
Neither really. The original Mac sound hardware had
four *synthesis* voices,
which could be fed a waveform and act as a primitive wavetable synthesizer.
This produces four-note polyphony.
I don't know what you consider to be 'original Mac', but the Mac+ sound
hardware was a pulse-width modulator loaded from a spare byte in the
video RAM area at the end of each video line. 
29 Nov
29 Nov
6:58 p.m.
At 7:08 PM -0600 11/29/05, Jim Leonard wrote:
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety mac
just...
lying around. Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag
them?
I ask because I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a
machine isn't old enough to be compatible with older software, but
isn't new enough to be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this
category -- can't run old stuff, can't run new stuff, so toss it in
the garbage).
With the proper software, older Mac's are far more useful than any
older PC (though a Pentium 133 starts falling into the potentially
useful range).
Of the ones you mention, the SE30 is the one that I'd consider most
worth saving. Find a suitable OS, a copy of MS Word 5.1, and some
terminal software, and you've got a nice "Terminal" and Word
Processing platform.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:51 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Of the ones you mention, the SE30 is the one that
I'd consider most
worth saving. Find a suitable OS, a copy of MS Word 5.1, and some
terminal software, and you've got a nice "Terminal" and Word Processing
platform.
Now here's a tricky question: If the SE30 were the only mac in my entire
household, how would I procure an OS install on diskette for it? The drive in
that thing is the 800K multi-speed beast, yes?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
9:13 p.m.
Now here's a tricky question: If the SE30 were
the only mac in my entire
household, how would I procure an OS install on diskette for it? The drive
in that thing is the 800K multi-speed beast, yes?
The SE/30 (note slash -- just being pedantic ;) will read 1.44MB MFM disks
just fine, as it came with a SuperDrive standard. It's the original SE that
might not, depending on how the particular models you find were fitted out.
There are various packages for making 1.44MB MFM disks from images on a PC
and the Mac should happily boot from them (in the SE/30's case, from System
6 all the way to 7.6, and possibly 8.1 if you use a little trickery).
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. ---------------
10:20 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
There are various packages for making 1.44MB MFM disks
from images on a PC
and the Mac should happily boot from them (in the SE/30's case, from System
6 all the way to 7.6, and possibly 8.1 if you use a little trickery).
Yes, but what is "best" for an SE/30? 6.x for compatibility or 7.6 for
features if I have enough ram (and what *is* "enough" for 7.x?)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
10:27 p.m.
There are
various packages for making 1.44MB MFM disks from images on a PC
and the Mac should happily boot from them (in the SE/30's case, from System
6 all the way to 7.6, and possibly 8.1 if you use a little trickery).
Yes, but what is "best" for an SE/30? 6.x for compatibility or 7.6 for
features if I have enough ram (and what *is* "enough" for 7.x?) 
30 Nov
30 Nov
6:27 a.m.
supposedly software written for even the later 680x0
Macs would run on the earliest ones (most of the time,
given enough ram, etc). Of course the PowerPC models
had to emulate 680x0 code, so software written
specifically for them had to have a PPC to run on.
The compact Macs were nifty, cute as all get out. But
the line started to become interesting when they got
some color...RIGHT ON! II/x/fx/cx/ci. I want a IIfx.
So by that logic, the ci is arguably the most
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
4 Dec
4 Dec
10:02 a.m.
Chris M wrote:
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
Update: I did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for the advice.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
10:51 a.m.
interesting.
The most collectible is the SE30.
Update: I did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for the advice. 
11:36 a.m.
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I think you'll enjoy it. :)
I'm now enjoying the SE that I picked up yesterday. I have a CD
burner installed on it and am figuring out just what software will
run on it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on fetching some of
the things suitable for the machine and burning to CD. It came
with OS 7.1 installed on it, and I've preserved that. I
'upgraded' to an Apple 250M hard drive, as I could see the 20
megger being completely filled up almost immediately (it already
was, as received). It's really nice that you can just format and
copy over entire drives on the Mac. I plugged in an external SCSI
drive and 'copied over' the entire 20 Meg original drive, then
replaced the internal drive with an Apple 250, then booted from
the external drive and copied it's contents over to the new
internal drive.
I'm right now in the process of installing a PDP-8 Simulator on it
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
Update: I did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for
the advice. from a shareware CD I got years ago.
--
--------------------------------- personal:
http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- FORTUNE: The moon is in Venus' house. This will make no
difference. --------
12:04 p.m.
Well, a local FreeCycler in my area is giving up a working mac
powerbook 5300 series (trying to find out if it is the better/more
loaded 'ce' version). I'm thinking of picking it up since it also
comes with power supply and spare battery that the owner says is good.
Can anyone tell me their experiences with such a machine? I believe
it meets the 10yr rule (or is close to meeting it) as the 5300 line
was out in 1995. Does it take standard PC (PCMCIA) cards or does it
take mac variant PC cards? What is it's upgrade path? Can the OS be
upped to something more recent/stable (as I've been told it started
off with an OS 7.2.x version that was horrible)? Would Linux be a
better choice over mac OS 9.x/10.x on it? Just looking for first hand
experiences/knowledge.
-John Boffemmyer IV
At 02:36 PM 12/4/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I think you'll enjoy it. :)
I'm now enjoying the SE that I picked up yesterday. I have a CD
burner installed on it and am figuring out just what software will
run on it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on fetching some of
the things suitable for the machine and burning to CD. It came
with OS 7.1 installed on it, and I've preserved that. I
'upgraded' to an Apple 250M hard drive, as I could see the 20
megger being completely filled up almost immediately (it already
was, as received). It's really nice that you can just format and
copy over entire drives on the Mac. I plugged in an external SCSI
drive and 'copied over' the entire 20 Meg original drive, then
replaced the internal drive with an Apple 250, then booted from
the external drive and copied it's contents over to the new
internal drive.
I'm right now in the process of installing a PDP-8 Simulator on it
from a shareware CD I got years ago.
> --
> --------------------------------- personal:
> http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> ckaiser at floodgap.com
> -- FORTUNE: The moon is in Venus' house. This will make no
> difference. --------
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/2/2005
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
Update: I did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for
the advice. 
5 Dec
5 Dec
8:34 a.m.
John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
Well, a local FreeCycler in my area is giving up a
working mac powerbook
5300 series (trying to find out if it is the better/more loaded 'ce'
version). I'm thinking of picking it up since it also comes with power
supply and spare battery that the owner says is good.
Can anyone tell me their experiences with such a machine? I believe it
meets the 10yr rule (or is close to meeting it) as the 5300 line was out
in 1995. Does it take standard PC (PCMCIA) cards or does it take mac
variant PC cards? What is it's upgrade path? Can the OS be upped to
something more recent/stable (as I've been told it started off with an
OS 7.2.x version that was horrible)? Would Linux be a better choice over
mac OS 9.x/10.x on it? Just looking for first hand experiences/knowledge.
I don't believe this machine will run OS 10. I don't think it'll run
9.2 either. It's 9.1 or before. Also, bear in mind that this machine
will have a hard drive with about 500MB so you might need to upgrade.
My suggestion would be to try a newish version of OS 8. Anything better
than OS 8.6 should allow you use ~8 GB drives. Another thing to know is
that it maxes out at 64MB RAM, so don't try to run Mozilla on it. 8-)
I wouldn't bother taking it if it's not a color model, but that's just me.
NetBSD won't run on it since it's NuBus, and I don't know too much about
NuBus Linux. Maybe someone else can comment.
Peace... Sridhar
11:09 a.m.
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Sridhar Ayengar wrote Re: PowerBook 5300:
NetBSD won't run on it since it's NuBus, and I
don't know too much about
NuBus Linux. Maybe someone else can comment.
It's listed as supported on http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ and I
remember at least one person posting a sucess story back when I was on the
nubus mailing list.
Alexey
10:13 a.m.
Well, a local FreeCycler in my area is giving up a
working mac
powerbook 5300 series (trying to find out if it is the better/more
loaded 'ce' version). I'm thinking of picking it up since it also
comes with power supply and spare battery that the owner says is good.
Can anyone tell me their experiences with such a machine? I believe
it meets the 10yr rule (or is close to meeting it) as the 5300 line
was out in 1995. Does it take standard PC (PCMCIA) cards or does it
take mac variant PC cards? What is it's upgrade path? Can the OS be
upped to something more recent/stable (as I've been told it started
off with an OS 7.2.x version that was horrible)? Would Linux be a
better choice over mac OS 9.x/10.x on it? Just looking for first hand
experiences/knowledge.
Ah, the 5300. I had one for a few months which was supposed to be my backup
laptop, but I got an iBook instead and my 1400 is now my backup. I ended up
finding the 5300 a new one and the owner is very happy with it.
It takes standard 16-bit PCMCIA. NO CARDBUS! Drivers are required, however.
For my 5300 I used an EtherLink III PCMCIA card and the driver I maintain
here: http://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/mac/enet3c589/
It has no real upgrade path, unlike the 1400 that can be upgraded all the way
to a G3. You can upgrade the RAM with a single proprietary stick, and there
are still occasionally used sticks or NOS sticks for sale.
The OS can be maxed to 9.1, but I don't recommend this -- too slow on the 603,
and you will need a "lot" (read: at least 32MB) of RAM. Plus, you'd need to
turn VM on even with the RAM near maximum, and this slows it down more. On
the 5300, I wouldn't exceed 8.1.
It won't ever run OS X -- not possible. The NuBus machines aren't supported
by it. For the same reason, it cannot run NetBSD -- it *may* run NuBus Linux,
but its hardware support may be spotty. When I had my 5300, I ran 8.1 (and
it had 48MB of RAM).
It's a nice little PowerBook, but be aware of its limits. The 1400 is my
favourite of that range, because it has a G3 option, a fantastic keyboard,
stackable RAM slots, CD-ROM and (1400c) a wonderful active matrix screen.
Nevertheless, the 5300 is still very capable within its operating range.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -- Aldous Huxley ----------------
4 Dec
4 Dec
12:45 p.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
run on it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on
fetching some of
Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it -- what is that? Serial? If
serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use AppleTalk?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
12:52 p.m.
run on it. It
has an Ethernet card, so I plan on fetching some of
Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it -- what is that? Serial? If
serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use AppleTalk?
3:19 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
DB*9*? on an SE/30? Are you sure it's an SE/30?
It's on an additional bracket (the only expansion slot?). Yes, it's definitely
an SE/30. Maybe someone added it to use an older mouse? Seems stupid to tie
up the only expansion slot with a DB9...
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
run on it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on
fetching some of
Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it -- what is that? Serial? If
serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use AppleTalk?
6:20 p.m.
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:19:34 -0600
Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
It's on an additional bracket (the only expansion slot?). Yes,
it's definitely an SE/30. Maybe someone added it to use an
older mouse? Seems stupid to tie up the only expansion slot
with a DB9... --
It must be something proprietary. That slot is used for various
things, and I doubt if it would be a serial port. A video
interface perhaps? You'll need to open the machine and see, I
suspect.
>run on
it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on fetching
some of >
Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it --
what is that?
Serial? If >serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use
AppleTalk?
DB*9*? on an SE/30? Are you sure it's an SE/30?
10:57 p.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
It must be something proprietary. That slot is used
for various
things, and I doubt if it would be a serial port. A video
interface perhaps? You'll need to open the machine and see, I
suspect.
Any illustrated online guides for opening up an SE/30? I don't like to fiddle
around with a screwdriver and hope I don't damage things.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
11:27 p.m.
Any illustrated online guides for opening up an SE/30?
I don't like to
fiddle around with a screwdriver and hope I don't damage things.
It should be the same as any Compact Mac. The essential tool is a Mac
Cracker, a long shaft Torx T-15 screwdriver (Fry's carries them under that
exact name). Depending on the model, there are four or five such screws on
the back -- two are invariably deep under the handle, hence the need for
the shaft, and two or three in plain view. Separating the two case halves
can be done by hand, but you can get a "case cracker" (different from a
Mac Cracker) to do the separation if you're worried about this. I can do it
with a flathead screwdriver, but do so very carefully.
That should get you inside. Mind the CRT, of course.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. -- James Carpenter ---------------------
5 Dec
5 Dec
2:51 p.m.
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:27:50 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I just use a long-handled narrow flat blade screwdriver. For as
often as I open a compact Mac it works fine. Size the blade by
fitting it in the other screws on the case back. For repair shops
that open Macs all the time, the torx is important. For 'the rest
of us' a cheap regular screwdriver is fine. I 'cracked' an SE
Saturday night with my screwdriver (upgraded the 20M drive with an
Apple 250M after carefully wrapping and preserving the original.)
It's VERY important to be careful inside the Mac once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
But since the compact Mac was expressly designed to NOT be user
servicible, that meets the requirements of the time.
Any
illustrated online guides for opening up an SE/30? I
don't like to fiddle around with a screwdriver and hope I
don't damage things.
It should be the same as any Compact Mac. The essential tool is
a Mac Cracker, a long shaft Torx T-15 screwdriver (Fry's carries
them under that exact name). Depending on the model, there are
four or five such screws on the back -- two are invariably deep
under the handle, hence the need for the shaft, and two or three
in plain view. Separating the two case halves can be done by
hand, but you can get a "case cracker" (different from a Mac
Cracker) to do the separation if you're worried about this. I
can do it with a flathead screwdriver, but do so very carefully.
That should get you inside. Mind the CRT, of course.
3:06 p.m.
While I value both your advice, you're both scaring me. :-) I think I'll
leave my SE/30 as is and just blissfully ignore the mystery DB9 female port on
the back.
Scott Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:27:50 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I just use a long-handled narrow flat blade screwdriver. For as
often as I open a compact Mac it works fine. Size the blade by
fitting it in the other screws on the case back. For repair shops
that open Macs all the time, the torx is important. For 'the rest
of us' a cheap regular screwdriver is fine. I 'cracked' an SE
Saturday night with my screwdriver (upgraded the 20M drive with an
Apple 250M after carefully wrapping and preserving the original.)
It's VERY important to be careful inside the Mac once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
But since the compact Mac was expressly designed to NOT be user
servicible, that meets the requirements of the time.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
Any
illustrated online guides for opening up an SE/30? I
don't like to fiddle around with a screwdriver and hope I
don't damage things.
It should be the same as any Compact Mac. The essential tool is
a Mac Cracker, a long shaft Torx T-15 screwdriver (Fry's carries
them under that exact name). Depending on the model, there are
four or five such screws on the back -- two are invariably deep
under the handle, hence the need for the shaft, and two or three
in plain view. Separating the two case halves can be done by
hand, but you can get a "case cracker" (different from a Mac
Cracker) to do the separation if you're worried about this. I
can do it with a flathead screwdriver, but do so very carefully.
That should get you inside. Mind the CRT, of course.
3:22 p.m.
It's VERY important to be careful inside the Mac
once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
There are good eleetronic reasons for mounting the video output stage
close to the CRT base (basically to reduce the capacitance of the
connections to the CRT cathode). You'll find most high resolution
monitors have a PCB hung on the back of the CRT.
The Mac+, etc, just has a socket connector on the back of the CRT, all
the circuitry is on the analogue board (PSU and monitor circuity
basically). But there are connectors you have to unplug to remoe the
digital board (processor, mrmory, etc) which are a tight fit and so
positions that if you're pulling on them and they come loose suddenly,
you will hit the CRT neck. And yes, people (not me this time...) have
cracked CRTs doing just that.
But since the compact Mac was expressly designed to NOT be user
servicible, that meets the requirements of the time.
I am not going to enter into another flameware about Apple
designs....Suffice it to say, both mechanically and electronically, they
are well down my list.
-tony
3:24 p.m.
On Mon, December 5, 2005 2:51 pm, Scott Stevens wrote:
It's VERY important to be careful inside the Mac
once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
I have the Larry Pina mac repair books and that's one of first things to do -
after popping the back case, remove the little board from the back of the crt
so you don't jostle it by accident.
Jeff
27 Dec
27 Dec
9:09 p.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
It's VERY important to be careful inside the Mac
once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
Geez -- so is that the board I see at the top of the tube in this picture:
http://modeltrain.com/mac/se30/6.jpg
I bump that board and the tube will implode?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
28 Dec
28 Dec
5:14 a.m.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:09:07 -0600
Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Scott Stevens wrote:
There is a better chance of that happening than is acceptable.
There is a long thin glass nipple that pokes through the socket
connector in the center of that board. A minor bend of the board
is enough to snap off said glass nipple. I have opened my
compact Macs often enough without it happening, but that's
because I am very aware of the problem, having broken the first
Mac Plus I opened years ago. I was able to swap out the CRT on
that one, it was in the era when spare CRTs were pretty common
for $10. They're NOT as common any longer. Best practice is to
unplug the board immediately after opening the case (and then
stay clear of the glass nipple, which protrudes out).
It is NOT one of Apple's best designs. But they were
deliberately keeping the layman out of that generation of Mac.
(Steve Jobs was rather snide about the 'hacker proof' nature of
the original Mac in a radio address I heard him give back at the
launch of the Mac- it put me off Apple hardware for a long time)
Apparently the priesthood 'allowed inside the case' were properly
warned.
It's VERY important to be careful inside the
Mac once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
Geez -- so is that the board I see at the top of the tube in this picture:
http://modeltrain.com/mac/se30/6.jpg
I bump that board and the tube will implode? 
9:04 a.m.
On Wednesday 28 December 2005 00:09, Jim Leonard wrote:
Scott Stevens wrote:
If by 'implode', you mean that you'll break the tip off the tube, and
it'll fill up with air, in a rather anti-climatic and uneventful
fashion, yes.
I really doubt you could implode the CRT by accidentally hitting that
board, unless you were using a sledge hammer or something...
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
It's VERY important to be careful inside the
Mac once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
Geez -- so is that the board I see at the top of the tube in this
picture:
http://modeltrain.com/mac/se30/6.jpg
I bump that board and the tube will implode?
10:51 a.m.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:04:49 -0500
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote:
On Wednesday 28 December 2005 00:09, Jim Leonard
wrote:
I imploded a defective iMac CRT about a month ago. I put it in a
heavy duty contractor bag first, then hammered the face through
the bag. It imploded, alright. The glass was reduced to little
bits, like automobile safety glass.
Scott Stevens wrote:
If by 'implode', you mean that you'll break the tip off the tube, and
it'll fill up with air, in a rather anti-climatic and uneventful
fashion, yes.
I really doubt you could implode the CRT by accidentally hitting that
board, unless you were using a sledge hammer or something...
Pat It's VERY important to be careful inside the
Mac once the cover is
off. It's extremely easy to snap the glass nipple on the CRT and
ruin it. Apple in their infinite wisdom put a circuit board on
the back of the neck to act as a 'torque amplifier' for this
purpose. Just bumping the board wrong can let all the 'magic
vacuum' out of your CRT.
Geez -- so is that the board I see at the top of the tube in this
picture:
http://modeltrain.com/mac/se30/6.jpg
I bump that board and the tube will implode? --
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
11:15 a.m.
On 12/28/2005 at 1:51 PM Scott Stevens wrote:
> I really doubt you could implode the CRT by
accidentally hitting that
> board, unless you were using a sledge hammer or something...
I've disposed of many CRTs by snapping off the tip of the evacuation stem.
Admitting atmosphere through the stem actually reduces stresses on the
tube as internal pressure equalizes with the atmosphere over the few
seconds that the process takes.
The big issue with destroying CRTs is making sure that they're kept out of
the landfill. The frit seal material used to attach the face of the tube
to the funnel section contains quite a bit of lead. CRT's are safer to
transport and handle if the vacuum is removed from the tube before
disposal.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:49 a.m.
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
CRT's are safer to
transport and handle if the vacuum is removed from the tube before
disposal.
Strangely enough, letting the vacuum out actually makes the tube
heavier.
And, as a corollary, a box full of ones weighs less than a box
full of zeroes. Proof: weigh a box of unpunched cards, then punch
and weigh again.
Tim.
5 Dec
5 Dec
3:06 p.m.
Any illustrated online guides for opening up an
SE/30? I don't like to
fiddle around with a screwdriver and hope I don't damage things.
It should be the same as any Compact Mac. The essential tool is a Mac
Cracker, a long shaft Torx T-15 screwdriver (Fry's carries them under that exact name). Depending on the model, there are four or
five such screws on
the back -- two are invariably deep under the handle, hence the need for
the shaft, and two or three in plain view. Separating the two case halves
On the Mac+ (and older machines), one of the screws in under the battery
cover. Unclip this and if you see a Torx screw there, take it out. As you
said, 2 are in the handle, and the othe 2 are at the ends of the
connector panel.
I generally find it best to put the machine face down. Then by pressing
on the battery and the connectors you can pull the case off upwards.
can be done by hand, but you can get a "case
cracker" (different from a
Mac Cracker) to do the separation if you're worried about this. I can do it
with a flathead screwdriver, but do so very carefully.
That should get you inside. Mind the CRT, of course.
-tony
4 Dec
4 Dec
6:38 p.m.
It could be a video board for driving a large screen- I have one in an
SE/30 here- can't recall the makers name off hand-will have to look.
(perchance "Viking"?)
DaveB, NZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: "Market" for old macs?
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
DB*9*? on an SE/30? Are you sure it's an SE/30?
It's on an additional bracket (the only expansion slot?). Yes, it's
definitely an SE/30. Maybe someone added it to use an older mouse?
Seems stupid to tie up the only expansion slot with a DB9...
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)
http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project?
http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at
http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date:
2/12/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 2/12/2005
run on it. It has an Ethernet card, so I plan on
fetching some of
Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it -- what is that?
Serial? If serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use
AppleTalk? 
5 Dec
5 Dec
8:49 a.m.
On 12/5/05, Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
>>Funny, mine has a DB9 female connector on it
-- what is that? Serial? If
>>serial, then why? Didn't most ApplePeople use AppleTalk?
The DIN-8 connectors can be used for straight serial, as to a modem,
or for AppleTalk - you can have both on one machine at the same time.
Both serial ports have the same physical layer driver chips, and they
are just the A and B channels of a Z8530 - interchangable.
It's on an additional bracket (the only expansion
slot?)... Maybe someone added
it to use an older mouse? Seems stupid to tie up the only expansion slot with a DB9...
I doubt it's a serial connection - most likely it's for driving an
external mono monitor.
Crack the case and look at the expansion card to be sure. Radius and
others made video boards for the Mac.
-ethan
27 Dec
27 Dec
9:02 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I'm beginning to think you're right, since I just powered it on and I get a
blank 50% gray desktop screen -- no icon, no screen updating, just the 50%
on-off-on-off default desktop pattern. So I built some 6.0.8 1.44MB startup
disks and the first one boots, loads, and definitely does about 30 seconds of
*something* but I can't see what. I tried moving the mouse pointer to the
upper left and right, thinking that the display board turned the Mac screen
into a "window" onto a larger virtual desktop, but nothing.
So, if this is a mono output board, what kind of DB9 mono monitor can I attach
to it? I've got an IBM mono TTL monitor next to me, will that work? Or was
there some goofy brand of high-res mono monitor this board was designed to work
with?
Or should I just crack the mac and take the board out and sell it on epay?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
It's on an
additional bracket (the only expansion slot?)... Maybe someone added
it to use an older mouse? Seems stupid to tie up the only expansion slot with a DB9...
I doubt it's a serial connection - most likely it's for driving an
external mono monitor.
2 Jan
2 Jan
9:20 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
So, if this is a mono output board, what kind of DB9
mono monitor can I
attach to it? I've got an IBM mono TTL monitor next to me, will that
work? Or was there some goofy brand of high-res mono monitor this board
was designed to work with?
Or should I just crack the mac and take the board out and sell it on epay?
Never got a response to the above, so I'm going to drive to the local Fry's
tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker" someone mentioned -- It's a new
store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not, is there anything
special/exact I should look for?
While I'd like to find a monitor that works with the board (again, any hints
anyone?), in the end I think I'm going to end up trying to find a home for
it. Is there a mac-specific forum for this kind of thing, or should I throw
it to epay and hope for the best?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
10:19 p.m.
Never got a response to the above, so I'm going to
drive to the local Fry's
tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker" someone mentioned -- It's a new
store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not, is there anything
special/exact I should look for?
When I went to my local Fry's, they didn't know it by that name, but that's
what they sold it under. It's a long-shaft T15 Torx.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Homestar has a web site? -- Strong Bad -------------------------------------
11:59 p.m.
Actually the 'Mac cracker' itself is not the long-shaft T15 Torx, but a
tool that can pry the case apart
without damage after the torx is used to remove the screws. The cracker
was simply two thin metal
plates with handles that operated somewhat like scissors in reverse.
Operate the handles to bring the
plates together, insert the plates into the case groove, then apply
pressure to force the case halves
apart. This can be done without using the cracker (like with putty
knives or screwdrivers) but without
the cracker (or sometimes even with) the case would be noticably
damaged/dinged splitting the halves.
I'm not surprised the current crop of Fry's guys don't know what a real
mac cracker is -- most of them
were probably not even born when it was around. Couldn't find any pix of
it on the net.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Never got a
response to the above, so I'm going to drive to the local Fry's
tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker" someone mentioned -- It's a new
store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not, is there anything
special/exact I should look for?
When I went to my local Fry's, they didn't know it by that name, but that's
what they sold it under. It's a long-shaft T15 Torx.
3 Jan
3 Jan
12:02 a.m.
this one?
http://www2.sunrem.com/sun01.w?pt=711-130
--
Tim Riker - http://Rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist - http://eLinux.org/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
3:40 a.m.
On 03/01/2006, at 7:02 PM, Tim Riker wrote:
The one I used to have was "home made" out of a door hinge with two
rods welded at an angle onto the two hinge plates. I seem to recall
that we had to grind down the edges of the plates to get them thin
enough to get into position to crack the Mac.
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia | air, the sky would be painted green"
6:05 a.m.
Actually the 'Mac cracker' itself is not the
long-shaft T15 Torx, but a
tool that can pry the case apart
I know that, but that's what the package said on it.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Gravity is a myth. The Earth just sucks. -----------------------------------
8:26 a.m.
Don North wrote:
Operate the handles to bring the
plates together, insert the plates into the case groove, then apply
pressure to force the case halves
apart. This can be done without using the cracker (like with putty
knives or screwdrivers) but without
the cracker (or sometimes even with) the case would be noticably
damaged/dinged splitting the halves.
Is there any particular place you start cracking it open, or should you
just "crack" all around the case until it's off?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
2 Jan
2 Jan
10:23 p.m.
www.applefritter.com and www.68kmla.net are good places to ask about compact
Macs (try the forums).
Macs crackers are sold cheaply on eBay also.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: "Market" for old macs?
Jim Leonard wrote:
> So, if this is a mono output board, what kind of DB9 mono monitor can I
> attach to it? I've got an IBM mono TTL monitor next to me, will that
> work? Or was there some goofy brand of high-res mono monitor this board
> was designed to work with?
>
> Or should I just crack the mac and take the board out and sell it on
epay?
Never got a response to the above, so I'm going to drive to the local
Fry's
tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker"
someone mentioned -- It's a new
store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not, is there
anything
special/exact I should look for?
While I'd like to find a monitor that works with the board (again, any
hints
anyone?), in the end I think I'm going to end up
trying to find a home for
it. Is there a mac-specific forum for this kind of thing, or should I
throw
it to epay and hope for the best?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)
http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project?
http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at
http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
10:51 p.m.
Jim Leonard declared on Tuesday 03 January 2006 00:20:
Never got a response to the above, so I'm going to
drive to the local
Fry's tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker" someone mentioned --
It's a new store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not,
is there anything special/exact I should look for?
FWIW, when I needed a long handle T15 to open a compact mac, I found one
at the hardware department of Sears. They sell a 12" or so long handle
T15 driver that works like a charm.
While I'd like to find a monitor that works with
the board (again, any
hints anyone?), in the end I think I'm going to end up trying to find
a home for it. Is there a mac-specific forum for this kind of thing,
or should I throw it to epay and hope for the best?
Try a "multiscan" VGA perhaps? :) You'll probably need to wire yourself
up a cable, and maybe use some tools to figure out the pinout (like a
'scope perhaps).
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
3 Jan
3 Jan
6:59 a.m.
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:20:42 -0600
Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Jim Leonard wrote:
I'll say again that I have never had difficulty using an ordinary
long-handle flatblade screwdriver wedged into the TORX screwhead
to open my Macs. If you're running a Macintosh maintenance
facility, get the special tool. Otherwise, you're wasting time
and money going after the special long-handled TORX screwdriver.
The screws are threaded into Plastic, not anything really
difficult to turn screws out of.
And I've never had much difficulty getting the case back to slide
off once the screws are loose. I have opened four compact Macs
this way over the years. It strikes me as folly to spend a lot
of time and money chasing after a tool that you'll probably use
once.
It's cool and interesting to hear and discuss the 'lore' of the
special tools used in years past to service and maintain compact
Macs. But I feel it's worthwhile to bring up that those special
tools are NOT needed. Lack of access to those tools is NOT a
barrier to opening a Compact Mac.
So, if this is a mono output board, what kind of
DB9 mono monitor can I
attach to it? I've got an IBM mono TTL monitor next to me, will that
work? Or was there some goofy brand of high-res mono monitor this board
was designed to work with?
Or should I just crack the mac and take the board out and sell it on epay?
Never got a response to the above, so I'm going to drive to the local Fry's
tomorrow and look for that "Mac cracker" someone mentioned -- It's a new
store, just opened, do you think they'd have it? If not, is there anything
special/exact I should look for?
8:28 a.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
And I've never had much difficulty getting the
case back to slide
off once the screws are loose.
The case doesn't slide; what did you use to pry it open and how much did
you mangle the case?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
9:09 a.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
I've always found that lying the machine face-down on something soft, then
"slapping" the sides of the case upwards pops them off with no damage and
no special tools.
Gordon.
And I've never had much difficulty getting
the case back to slide
off once the screws are loose.
The case doesn't slide; what did you use to pry it open and how much did
you mangle the case?
2:15 p.m.
gordonjcp at gjcp.net wrote:
I've always found that lying the machine face-down on something soft, then
"slapping" the sides of the case upwards pops them off with no damage and
no special tools.
I am *so* gonna destroy this poor Mac. Slapping, nipples, cracking...
Oh well, wish me luck!
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
And I've never had much difficulty getting the case
back to slide
off once the screws are loose.
The case doesn't slide; what did you use to pry it open and how much did
you mangle the case?
4:51 p.m.
to open my Macs. If you're running a Macintosh
maintenance
facility, get the special tool. Otherwise, you're wasting time
and money going after the special long-handled TORX screwdriver.
The screws are threaded into Plastic, not anything really
difficult to turn screws out of.
And I've never had much difficulty getting the case back to slide
off once the screws are loose. I have opened four compact Macs
It's perhaps worth mentioning that the easiest way to remove the case is
to put the Mac front (screen side) down and pull the case off upwards.
Same with most monitors, actually.
this way over the years. It strikes me as folly to
spend a lot
of time and money chasing after a tool that you'll probably use
once.
Maybe I;m odd, but I like to have the right tools to do the job. I even
make them if necessary (see the post a few weeks ago when I described how
to make the alignment tools of the HP7245A printer/plotter. I can't
believe I am ever likely to use those very often...)
-tony
6:02 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:51:56 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
I'll say again that I have never had
difficulty using an ordinary
long-handle flatblade screwdriver wedged into the TORX screwhead
If you do this and mangle the heads of the screws sufficiently that you
can't turn them with the right tool either, you are going to have one
hell of a job drilling them out.
I've never had this problem. I don't 'bull' the screw out with
brute force. A common flat-blade screwdriver tip nests tightly
into the torque head and the screws are easily backed out. You
determine 'proper fit' by trying the screwdriver blade in the
easily accessable case-back screws.
I never bought a specail tool to open Macs. I just
used the Xcellite
System 99 Torx drivers with the X5 extension. Fits perfectly, and it's in
my normal toolkit.
My point in making my first comment was that not everybody has a
huge collection of tools, and the thread was starting to develop
in a way that somebody was going to have to head out and buy
expensive new tools. It was a 'common sense' post, to make sure
people knew they did NOT have to view their lack of an unusually
long T15 torx screwdriver as a barrier.
'The exact tool' is a nice thing to have, but not all people here
also collect tools.
4 Jan
4 Jan
4:25 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:51:56 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
I'll say again that I have never had
difficulty using an ordinary
long-handle flatblade screwdriver wedged into the TORX screwhead
If you do this and mangle the heads of the screws sufficiently that you
can't turn them with the right tool either, you are going to have one
hell of a job drilling them out.
I've never had this problem. I don't 'bull' the screw out with
brute force. A common flat-blade screwdriver tip nests tightly
into the torque head and the screws are easily backed out. You
determine 'proper fit' by trying the screwdriver blade in the
easily accessable case-back screws.
Sure, that probabbly is fine 99.999% of the time. But the one time it
doesn't work, and you do mangle the deeply recessed screws is the time
you have real problems trying to get them out.
I have, alas, seen far too many jobs made a lot more difficult by people
using the wrong tool on fasteners. Drilling out screws is not fun at the
best of times, hidden inside the handle of a compact Mac is probably one
of the worst places they could be.
I never bought a specail tool to open Macs. I
just used the Xcellite
System 99 Torx drivers with the X5 extension. Fits perfectly, and it's in
my normal toolkit.
My point in making my first comment was that not everybody has a
huge collection of tools, and the thread was starting to develop in a way that somebody was going to have to head out
and buy
expensive new tools. It was a 'common sense' post, to make sure
people knew they did NOT have to view their lack of an unusually
long T15 torx screwdriver as a barrier.
'The exact tool' is a nice thing to have, but not all people here
also collect tools.
I don't collect tools (well, not really, although I have been known to
buy some really odd second-hand stuff becuase it looks interesting...), I
do like to use the right tool if it's available.
It is claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
-tony
5 Jan
5 Jan
4:20 a.m.
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:25:54 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
I'm not performing this operation 100,000 times. If I were, I
would definitely go out and get the long handled T15 Torx
Screwdriver.
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:51:56 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
I've never had this problem. I don't 'bull' the screw out with
brute force. A common flat-blade screwdriver tip nests tightly
into the torque head and the screws are easily backed out. You
determine 'proper fit' by trying the screwdriver blade in the
easily accessable case-back screws.
Sure, that probabbly is fine 99.999% of the time. But the one time it
doesn't work, and you do mangle the deeply recessed screws is the time
you have real problems trying to get them out.
It is claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a saying from
folklore. A true craftsman can make do with what is available,
and leverage his skills and dexterity, rather than just go out
and buy more specialized tools.
4:41 a.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
It is claimed
that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a saying from
folklore. ...
2:31 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
It is
claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a saying from
folklore. ...
was blaming one's own workmanship. Also the reason
why (again,
traditionally - tho'
this tradition only just about survives) you never use someone else's tools
without their permission - or even touch them.
Perhaps I am very old-fashioned, but I've always assumed you don't use or
even touch anybody else's property without there permission. That's just
a matter of common courtesy.
-tony
3:01 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
On 1/5/2006 at 10:31 PM ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Perhaps I am very old-fashioned, but I've always
assumed you don't use or
even touch anybody else's property without there permission. That's just
a matter of common courtesy.
If you're old fashioned, I'm even more so. Given all of the pure garbage
coming onto the market that's jokingly referred to as "tools", I still
believe that tools are one area on which it's just plain foolish to skimp.
German-made Wiha has a very nice 365 mm T15 driver. It'll set you back
all of $5.50.
It's also a good idea not to skimp on shoes. :)
Cheers,
Chuck
3:31 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
If you're old fashioned, I'm even more so. Given all of the pure garbage
coming onto the market that's jokingly referred to as "tools", I still
Yes, I've seen such things in shops over here. Needless to say I didn't
buy any...
believe that tools are one area on which it's just
plain foolish to skimp.
Exactly. Firstly, good tools are cheaper in the end becuase they last a
lot longer (I don't expect to _ever_ have to replace most of my tools,
they will outlive me, and I do use them a lot). Secondly, poor tools can
damage the work -- a badly fitting screwdriver or spanenr will mangle the
head of the fastener, a poor soldering iron will overheat the PCB and
compoennts in some cases, and so on. Putting that sort of damage right
takes time that I'd rather spend doing something useful.
-tony
3:59 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 1/5/2006 at 4:39 PM woodelf wrote:
>So what is the right kind of shoes to wear; and can you still find them
>
>
>Start at your local Red Wing store.
>
>
Don't have one. What I forgot to add was for use around computers and
other racked equipment?
4:26 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:59:08 -0700
woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
The shoes don't matter. The grounding heel strap does. But then
you also need a conductive floor....
On 1/5/2006 at 4:39 PM woodelf wrote:
>So what is the right kind of shoes to wear; and can you still find them
>
>
>Start at your local Red Wing store.
>
>
Don't have one. What I forgot to add was for use around computers and
other racked equipment?
6:02 p.m.
New subject: Appropriate tools - was Market" for old macs?
I recall that early on when Torx heads were first making their appearance,
some firms stated that a 2.5mm hex driver could also be used in place of a
T15 in a pinch. Perhaps this might be better than a flat screwdriver? At
least it would multiple points of contact.
Cheers,
Chuck
9:37 a.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a
saying from
folklore. A true craftsman can make do with what is available,
and leverage his skills and dexterity, rather than just go out
and buy more specialized tools.
Which is why real carpenters use hammers to drive screws.
Why get them there new-fangled screwdriver thingies,
when hammers work just as well.
10:51 a.m.
Kevin Handy wrote:
Which is why real carpenters use hammers to drive
screws.
Why get them there new-fangled screwdriver thingies, when hammers work
just as
well.
I use both, it the scewdrive don't work ... then the hammer. Note this
was making one thouse
"easy to assmble" cheap things that everybody sells.
2:29 p.m.
Sure, that
probabbly is fine 99.999% of the time. But the one time it
doesn't work, and you do mangle the deeply recessed screws is the time
you have real problems trying to get them out.
I'm not performing this operation 100,000 times. If I were, I
would definitely go out and get the long handled T15 Torx
Screwdriver.
It is claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a saying from
folklore. A true craftsman can make do with what is available,
and leverage his skills and dexterity, rather than just go out
and buy more specialized tools.
3:55 p.m.
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:29:48 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
It just takes the machine you're working on to have overtight screws, or
the flatblade to be a bit too narrow to strip the heads and then you have
problems.
It's worked very well in the four instances when I have
successfully used this method. I still haven't bought my long
handled T15 Torx driver. I haven't needed one for any other
application. In my thinking this puts me well ahead of the odds
you lay, and I didn't even think I was taking a gamble.
A true craftsman (and for that matter a hardwre hacker) can, and will,
make his own tools were necessary, sure. This is a far cry from using the
wrong tools. I don't think you'll find _any_ craftsman who would use a
flatblade screwdriver on a Torx head screw (or on a cross-head screw).
Nor will you find him using a screwdriver as a chisel or a pry-bar. Or
using a hammer to get a part off a shaft when a puller is the right tool
to use.
Please don't assume an understanding of how someone else uses
tools, and then spin off citing ludicrous extrapolations of tool
abuse. It's getting a little ridiculous. I don't think anybody
in this discussion is a serial tool abuser (though I suppose
fingers will be pointed.)
I maintain that if the tools on hand will do the job, it's
perfectly legitimate to use them. Others would warn anybody
wanting to open their Macintosh to delay and acquire the Apple
sanctioned implements. It's up to anybody with a Mac to decide,
it's all in the list archive now.
Sure, that probabbly is fine 99.999% of the time. But
the one time it
doesn't work, and you do mangle the deeply recessed screws is the time
you have real problems trying to get them out.
I'm not performing this operation 100,000 times. If I were, I
would definitely go out and get the long handled T15 Torx
Screwdriver.
It is claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure who makes that claim, though it is a saying from
folklore. A true craftsman can make do with what is available,
and leverage his skills and dexterity, rather than just go out
and buy more specialized tools. 
4:08 p.m.
In article <20060105185517.4a18e4bd.chenmel at earthlink.net>,
Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> writes:
Please don't assume an understanding of how
someone else uses
tools, and then spin off citing ludicrous extrapolations of tool
abuse. It's getting a little ridiculous. [...]
IMO, it went past the point of being a little ridiculous about 15-20
messages ago. But hey, beat yourselves over the head with this email
club until you're walking around senseless for all I care :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
5:16 p.m.
On 1/5/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It just takes the machine you're working on to
have overtight screws, or
the flatblade to be a bit too narrow to strip the heads and then you have
problems.
I have always used a long handled flat head on the screws under the
handle, and have never run into a problem: the metal in those screw is
harder than the metal most screw drivers are made from.
Using the "right tool" for a job involves a lot more than using a tool
designed for an exact purpose. It involves knowing when you can use a
given tool. If that given tool is a long handled flathead in a torx
screw, so be it. Similarly, sometimes tools are not necessary. That
would be the case for the case cracker. (Prying is rarely necessary
on the first time in, and it is never necessary on the second time
in.)
6 Jan
6 Jan
4:29 p.m.
Using the "right tool" for a job involves a
lot more than using a tool
designed for an exact purpose. It involves knowing when you can use a
given tool. If that given tool is a long handled flathead in a torx
True.... If my car [1] broke down somewhere, then yes, I would probably
misuse tools to get home. Things like using a flat-blade screwdriver to
fit an open-ended spanenr that's too large for the nut, using a Mole
Wrench (Vise Grips to you, I think) in place of a spanner, using a hammer
ratehr than a puller,using a credit card as a feeler gauge for the spark
plug gaps (it's about right for most engines) and so on. But I certainly
don't do that sort of thing if I can get the right tools easily.
[1] OK, I don't have a car (or even know how to drive), but you get the
point.
You can drive a pozidrive screw with a phillips driver and vice versa.
But if you try that on anything I own, or with my tools, you will regret
it. It does damage to both the tool and the screw.
I basically consider there are 4 cases :
1) The right tool is in the toolbox. Get up and use it!. There is then no
excuse for using the wrong tool..
2) The right tool is easily available and at an affordable price. Unless
the job is an emergency (which few hobby repairs to classic computers
are), then it is nearly always best to wait until you've got the tool
3) The right tool is unvailable or unaffordable, but there is a kludge
that will work with minimal damage. In which case it may be worth trying
that kludge. Sometimes the workaround is as good as the original, it just
takes longer (e.g. using a measuring device to set the position of
something, rather than an accurate lenght 'spacer' from the special toolkit.
4) The right tool is unavailable or unaffordable, and it is essential.
Then you have to make a substitute tool. Often 'special tools' can be
made in a good home workshop.
IMHO, a true craftsman, given the need for a long TX15 driver, and being
unable to get one, would make the right form cutter, make a dividing head
(heck, it's division by 6, one of the easiests ones to lay out by simple
geometery if you had to do it that way), and would mill the darn thing
from tool steel, harden it, and do the job properly.
-tony
5 Jan
5 Jan
8:42 a.m.
On 1/4/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
3 items from the Xcellite 99 range (the TX15 bit, the X5 extension and
the 99-1 handle) is not a huge collection of tools. Nor are they
particularly expensive. And others have posted that in the States it's
easy to get a long-shafted TX15 driver (they are very uncommon in the
UK), specifically for opening such machines. I have no idea how much they
cost, but I'll bet it's a lot less than I'd charge for getting those
screws out without damaging the rest of the machine if you did chew up
the heads.
I had always heard that saying refers to a workman with sub-par skills
who is unable to face up to his own deficiencies and finds an external
target on which to lay blame. And the version I heard was, "It's a
poor musician who blames his instrument."
- Mike
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:51:56 +0000 (GMT)
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
I've never had this problem. I don't 'bull' the screw out with
brute force. A common flat-blade screwdriver tip nests tightly
into the torque head and the screws are easily backed out. You
determine 'proper fit' by trying the screwdriver blade in the
easily accessable case-back screws.
Sure, that probabbly is fine 99.999% of the time. But the one time it
doesn't work, and you do mangle the deeply recessed screws is the time
you have real problems trying to get them out.
I have, alas, seen far too many jobs made a lot more difficult by people
using the wrong tool on fasteners. Drilling out screws is not fun at the
best of times, hidden inside the handle of a compact Mac is probably one
of the worst places they could be.
>
I'll say again that I have never had difficulty using an ordinary
long-handle flatblade screwdriver wedged into the TORX screwhead
If you do this and mangle the heads of the screws sufficiently that you
can't turn them with the right tool either, you are going to have one
hell of a job drilling them out.
I never bought a specail tool to open Macs. I
just used the Xcellite
System 99 Torx drivers with the X5 extension. Fits perfectly, and it's in
my normal toolkit.
My point in making my first comment was that not everybody has a
huge collection of tools, and the thread was starting to develop in a way that somebody was going to have to head
out and buy
expensive new tools. It was a 'common sense' post, to make sure
people knew they did NOT have to view their lack of an unusually
long T15 torx screwdriver as a barrier.
'The exact tool' is a nice thing to have, but not all people here
also collect tools.
I don't collect tools (well, not really, although I have been known to
buy some really odd second-hand stuff becuase it looks interesting...), I
do like to use the right tool if it's available.
It is claimed that 'the bad workman blames his tools'. I have always
thoguht that this comes from the fact that the good workman buys good
tools, looks after them, and uses the right tool for the job.
-tony
4 Dec
4 Dec
3:54 p.m.
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
DB*9*? on an SE/30? Are you sure it's an SE/30?
The last Mac to have a DB9 port was the Mac Plus, and that was for the mouse
(it used mini DIN-8 serial ports otherwise). The Mac 128 and 512 models had
DB9 ports for serial too.
strange, when a DE9 would do.
I have seen a DB9 on an Apple][. It was on the end of a cable connected
to a serial card, and consisted of a 25 pin shell that only had pins in 1
through 8 and 20.
5 Dec
5 Dec
6:53 a.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I'm now enjoying the SE that I picked up yesterday. I have a CD
burner installed on it and am figuring out just what software will
run on it.
Toast, of course. Before Nero existed, I used a Mac IIci and Toast
for all my CD burning needs. I never knew of anything close in the
Windoze world. Sure, you there are a few unix utilities for that,
but at the time Toast was the only sane GUI-based program.
carlos.
Update: I
did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for
the advice.
I think you'll enjoy it. :)
8 Dec
8 Dec
7:14 a.m.
I'm now
enjoying the SE that I picked up yesterday. I have a CD
burner installed on it and am figuring out just what software will
run on it.
Toast, of course. Before Nero existed, I used a Mac IIci and Toast
for all my CD burning needs.
5:25 p.m.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:14:47 -0800 (PST)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
Which version of Toast? Under which version of Mac OS?
I've been running Toast on two machines. The SE, running 7.1 and
my Beige G3 tower, with 9.2. I am not sure which version, but
it's very old. My first CD Writer came with a 'bundle' CD that
had Adaptec for the PC and 'Toast for Mac.' I am glad I saved
that CD. It is from about 1996.
I'm now enjoying the SE that I picked up
yesterday. I have
a CD burner installed on it and am figuring out just what
software will run on it.
Toast, of course. Before Nero existed, I used a Mac IIci and
Toast for all my CD burning needs.
4 Dec
4 Dec
12:44 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I think you'll enjoy it. :)
The fact that it has a superdrive and can boot disks I make on my WinXP machine
was a big factor :-)
I lied when I said I didn't have a mac -- I have two Mac 512s. But I wouldn't
have the first clue on how to use them to create a system disk to boot the
SE/30. (I seem to remember formatting a diskette and then copying over the
SYSTEM folder, but the SYSTEM folder on the hard drive is too big for a floppy...)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
Update: I did snag the SE/30 from work. Thanks to all for the advice.
1:38 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
I lied when I said I didn't have a mac -- I have
two Mac 512s. But I
wouldn't have the first clue on how to use them to create a system disk
to boot the SE/30. (I seem to remember formatting a diskette and then
copying over the SYSTEM folder, but the SYSTEM folder on the hard drive
is too big for a floppy...)
Well if you've got a Mac Classic you can boot it with Splat-Alt-X-O and
it will come up in OS 6.
You can then copy the system and finder files to a floppy.
Gordon.
5 Dec
5 Dec
6:53 a.m.
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Well if you've got a Mac Classic you can boot it
with Splat-Alt-X-O and
it will come up in OS 6.
You can then copy the system and finder files to a floppy.
I seem to remember doing this; that system folder did not work
elsewhere; it seems to be specific to the Classic.
carlos.
3:59 p.m.
Chris M wrote:
supposedly software written for even the later 680x0
Macs would run on the earliest ones (most of the time,
given enough ram, etc). Of course the PowerPC models
had to emulate 680x0 code, so software written
specifically for them had to have a PPC to run on.
The compact Macs were nifty, cute as all get out. But
the line started to become interesting when they got
some color...RIGHT ON! II/x/fx/cx/ci. I want a IIfx.
So by that logic, the ci is arguably the most
interesting. The most collectible is the SE30.
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29 Nov
29 Nov
10:43 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Jim Leonard once stated:
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety mac just... lying around.
Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
I ask because I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a machine
isn't old enough to be compatible with older software, but isn't new enough to
be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this category -- can't run old stuff, can't
run new stuff, so toss it in the garbage).
Well, only if you mean Microsoft stuff. Get an older distribution of
Linux and it'll work fine. I have an old AMD 586 I still use, and it has
not only some very old Unix software I wrote in the early 90s on it, but
even newer stuff like the latest version of Samba and Apache.
-spc (In fact, Linux up through perhaps 1.2 should be on topic ... )
10:23 p.m.
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote:
Obviously an older distro will work fine (I still have my Slackware 1.2 around
here somewhere). My point about being "useful" is that Pentium 133s are almost
literally free (I see them curbside every month) and for "free" you can usually
get all the way up to a 400MHz PII or 700 MHz PIII and those are much more useful.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
I ask because
I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a machine
isn't old enough to be compatible with older software, but isn't new enough to
be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this category -- can't run old stuff, can't
run new stuff, so toss it in the garbage).
Well, only if you mean Microsoft stuff. Get an older distribution of
Linux and it'll work fine. I have an old AMD 586 I still use, and it has
not only some very old Unix software I wrote in the early 90s on it, but
even newer stuff like the latest version of Samba and Apache.
30 Nov
30 Nov
3:14 a.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
Obviously an older distro will work fine (I still have
my Slackware 1.2
around here somewhere). My point about being "useful" is that Pentium
133s are almost literally free (I see them curbside every month) and for
"free" you can usually get all the way up to a 400MHz PII or 700 MHz
PIII and those are much more useful.
I've got a PII-233 laptop that runs Slackware 10.2 quite happily. I
tend to use P133 as the lowest spec for running NAT, SAMBA and
Spamassassin on (with as much memory as they will take - Spamassassin is
written in Perl and is a memory guzzler) for people to share out their
broadband and keep a few common files on.
Gordon
2 Jan
2 Jan
9:53 p.m.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 07:08:38PM -0600, Jim Leonard wrote:
At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety
mac just... lying
around. Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them?
Hello Jim,
I have no idea of how common they are since I'm not (yet) into Macs.
Anyways, I'd like to give a try to NetBSD on an old Mac, so I could be
interested is shipping cost permits. Where are you located?
Thank you,
?ngel
P.S.: I'm in Spain
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