11 Jan
2017
11 Jan
'17
8:40 a.m.
From: Eric Smith
I have a computer of the type that Gates and Allen
used for that early
development. :-)
I don't have it running, though.
Really? Which model processor; KA, KI, KL?
Noel
PS: Apparently Gates and Allen at one point rented time on a commercial
service in Boston to do development; anyone know who that was, and what
machine/OS is was?
11 Jan
11 Jan
2:04 p.m.
From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 5:40 AM
> From: Eric Smith
> I have a computer of the type that Gates and Allen
used for that early
> development. :-)
> I don't have it running, though.
Really? Which model processor; KA, KI, KL?
Eric's got a KL. If he had a KA, I would have tracked him down and beaten
him to a pulp to lay hands on it--and we're friends.
PS: Apparently Gates and Allen at one point rented
time on a commercial
service in Boston to do development; anyone know who that was, and what
machine/OS is was?
Nope. They moved to Albuquerque as soon as the deal with MITS was done.
(Ed Roberts hired Paul as his VP of software development on the spot.)
They rented time from the Albuquerque school district, whose -10 had
unused capacity. (Development of the BASIC interpreter was famously done
using the Harvard KA-10.)
They went from renting time on others' systems to owning their own when
they moved from Albuquerque back to Seattle. Their first was a KS under
TOPS-20.
I have all this not merely from Paul's book, but from another friend who
was Microsoft employee #11 (who appears in the famous picture) and others
like David Bunnell at our grand opening.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputers.org
http://www.LivingComputers.org/
4:27 p.m.
I guess for me, the value is less in bits of hardware than it is in
ephemera. My original S/360 green folding pocket card, for instance, or
any number of handwritten engineering design documents. Lots of old
manuals.
Probably not rare, but significant to me.
--Chuck
11:45 p.m.
I also have an Allen-Bradley 7320, a CNC machine tool
control. The heart of it is a 7300 "industrial processor"
16-bit minicomputer. I used it for a year or so to run a
retrofitted Bridgeport milling machine, but got tired of it
breaking down, which it did fairly often. Once I got EMC
from NIST running, the A-B was turned off for good.
http://pico-systems.com/images/S_AB7320D.jpg
Jon
12 Jan
12 Jan
12:11 a.m.
New subject: AB 7320 was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
On 1/11/2017 8:45 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I also have an Allen-Bradley 7320, a CNC machine tool
control. The
heart of it is a 7300 "industrial processor" 16-bit minicomputer. I
used it for a year or so to run a retrofitted Bridgeport milling
machine, but got tired of it breaking down, which it did fairly
often. Once I got EMC from NIST running, the A-B was turned off for
good.
http://pico-systems.com/images/S_AB7320D.jpg
Jon
I have one of the AB processor units from a 7320 system. The 3264
Industrial Processor. I have spare boards and front panels also.
Was there ever any general purpose software available for it? BASIC,
FORTRAN, assembler/editor/linker stuff? It would be fun to
get it running if there was something fun it could be used for.
Bob
--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org
12:37 a.m.
New subject: AB 7320 was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
On 01/11/2017 11:11 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
On 1/11/2017 8:45 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I quite doubt it. I suspect it was also used in places
where today you'd use a PLC, controlling various industrial
processes. It has a board that interfaces to I/O racks that
can take 8 I/O modules, and you can have several of these
racks per interface. I have digital inputs and outputs,
encoder counters and D/A converters, but I think there were
a bunch of different types of modules available.
I would GUESS they did software development on some general
purpose computer, but really have no idea. Their mini
certainly COULD have had assemblers, linkers and such for
in-house use. Maybe the industrial control guys used
software like that to set up the processes.
Jon
I also have an Allen-Bradley 7320, a CNC machine
tool
control. The heart of it is a 7300 "industrial
processor" 16-bit minicomputer. I used it for a year or
so to run a retrofitted Bridgeport milling machine, but
got tired of it breaking down, which it did fairly
often. Once I got EMC from NIST running, the A-B was
turned off for good.
http://pico-systems.com/images/S_AB7320D.jpg
Jon
I have one of the AB processor units from a 7320 system.
The 3264 Industrial Processor. I have spare boards and
front panels also.
Was there ever any general purpose software available for
it? BASIC, FORTRAN, assembler/editor/linker stuff? It
would be fun to
get it running if there was something fun it could be used
for.
Bob
11 Jan
11 Jan
5:15 p.m.
On Jan 11, 2017 2:01 PM, "Rich Alderson" <RichA at livingcomputers.org>
wrote:
Eric's got a KL. If he had a KA, I would have
tracked him down and beaten
him to a pulp to lay hands on it--and we're friends.
And I would even endorse such a course of action. If I had a KA10 and
wasn't running it myself, I would have provided it on loan to LCM, so that
it would actually be used. I think LCM is doing great stuff!
The only part of a KA that I have is the main console switch and light
panel. The leadperson for the film Swordfish wanted to rent it from me, but
we weren't able to reach an agreement. I have yet to see the film.
I've made replacement indicator boards with white LEDs, but haven't yet
hooked it up to anything. I'm keeping the original incandescent indicator
boards, but the bi-pin bulbs it uses are no longer manufactured.
Were time and money not so scarce, I would build a KA10 to use the console.
Hmmm... Does LCM have any interest in a KA10 replica? :-)
7:45 p.m.
I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this thread.. thanks guys! Always wanted to go
to CHM but it's in California, a long way from here. LCM is much closer and I like
the concept better given that they operate stuff. I'm thinking eventually my
collection will go to a museum somewhere, LCM seems like the kind of place I'd want it
to go to.
8:05 p.m.
Do remember, museums are not wherehouses for lots of duplicate
machines. The tend to keep only one or two of anything at most.
Give them a list of what you have and they will tell you what items
they would be interested in.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Brad H
<vintagecomputer at bettercomputing.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 4:45:02 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this thread.. thanks guys! Always wanted to go
to CHM but it's in California, a long way from here. LCM is much closer and I like
the concept better given that they operate stuff. I'm thinking eventually my
collection will go to a museum somewhere, LCM seems like the kind of place I'd want it
to go to.
8:34 p.m.
On 1/11/17 4:45 PM, Brad H wrote:
I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this thread
You mean "Living Computer: Museum + Labs" ?
http://www.livingcomputers.org/
They just changed their name.
8:36 p.m.
sigh.. even proofreading I got it wrong
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
On 1/11/17 5:34 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/11/17 4:45 PM, Brad H wrote:
I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this
thread
You mean "Living Computer: Museum + Labs" ?
http://www.livingcomputers.org/
They just changed their name.
11:29 p.m.
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:34:51 -0800
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/11/17 4:45 PM, Brad H wrote:
Thanks - didn't know that...
Good for them!!! Their website has really improved as well.
Cheers,
Lyle
--
73 AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this
thread
You mean "Living Computer: Museum + Labs" ?
http://www.livingcomputers.org/
They just changed their name. 
12 Jan
12 Jan
2 a.m.
Eric Smith wrote:
The only part of a KA that I have is the main console
switch and light
panel. The leadperson for the film Swordfish wanted to rent it from me, but
we weren't able to reach an agreement. I have yet to see the film.
I think there's only about ten seconds worth of PDP-10 goodness.
For a greater boost, check out the "Arpanet" episode of The Americans.
2:02 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
What about software?
2:24 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On 1/11/2017 11:02 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
What about software?
BCPL IBM mainframe
portability package (original time frame). Common
now, not so common back in the day.
The kit was used with some efforts to port to minicomputers @ USL
Also got some Mathilda manuals from Aarhus
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/aarhusUniversity/pb/PB-34_…
We were running the simulator which was in BCPL on a Multics system. The visit by the
Mathilda hardware was canceled a year after I was there.
thanks
jim
10:27 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:24 PM, jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com> wrote:
On 1/11/2017 11:02 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Strictly speaking I don't own, but I have helped breathe life back into
some software; we have a working Multics BCPL compiler. You can run that
software....
-- Charles
What about software?
BCPL IBM mainframe portability package (original time frame). Common now,
not so common back in the day.
The kit was used with some efforts to port to minicomputers @ USL
Also got some Mathilda manuals from Aarhus
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/aarhusUnive
rsity/pb/PB-34_An_Overview_of_the_MATHILDA_System_Aug74.pdf
We were running the simulator which was in BCPL on a Multics system. The
visit by the Mathilda hardware was canceled a year after I was there.
1:24 p.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On 1/12/2017 7:27 AM, Charles Anthony wrote:
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:24 PM, jim stephens
<jwsmail at jwsss.com> wrote:
the CHM took ownership of the USL archive which would have included any
BCPL remains. I have only the portability package tape and image,
which will get the BCPL compiler running on a 360 MVT or later (Also
made it go on an AT-370 VM system, as well as VM-SP5).
you can then re-target the code generation for portability on whatever
platform. That can of course be done better with the Multics BCPL.
The availability of Multics BCPL was one of the things that brought
Professor Konerup from Aarhus to USL, and they funded and spent a couple
of years studying in the US. Dr. Bruce Shriver spent a couple of years
in Aarhus on some sort of grant previously.
Professor Ted Lewis had SIGARCH for maybe 3 or 4 years as well as Dr.
Shriver, and we put on two SIGARCH conventions at USL. One had been
sponsored earlier, and while I was there in 1975 another one was put on
in New Orleans. A very interesting town to have a lot of such folks in
town for, and still get anything done.
Look up the Delta Towers, where the convention was held if you want to
see another fun challenge.
thanks
jim
On 1/11/2017 11:02 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Strictly speaking I don't own, but I have helped breathe life back into
some software; we have a working Multics BCPL compiler. You can run that
software....
-- Charles
What about software?
BCPL IBM mainframe portability package (original time frame). Common now,
not so common back in the day.
The kit was used with some efforts to port to minicomputers @ USL
Also got some Mathilda manuals from Aarhus
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/aarhusUnive
rsity/pb/PB-34_An_Overview_of_the_MATHILDA_System_Aug74.pdf
We were running the simulator which was in BCPL on a Multics system. The
visit by the Mathilda hardware was canceled a year after I was there.
1:35 p.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On 1/12/17 10:24 AM, jim stephens wrote:
the CHM took ownership of the USL archive which would
have included any BCPL remains.
This came in before my time. I know about the paper archive and index, were there tapes
with it too?
1:47 p.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On 1/12/2017 10:35 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/12/17 10:24 AM, jim stephens wrote:
The Danes brought over and made the Rikke and Mathilda simulators run on
Multics. That may have been lost when they left, or in whatever manner
Multics was shut down and retired there.
Also I could check with Dr. Kornerup and see what may remain in
Denmark. He is a Professor Emeritus last time I contacted him maybe 3
or 4 years ago.
I am glad you have the Aarhus stuff online you have. There were only
ever a few of the books ever bound and printed.
thanks
Jim
the CHM took ownership of the USL archive which
would have included any BCPL remains.
This came in before my time. I know about the
paper archive and index, were there tapes with it too?
10:24 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On Jan 12, 2017, at 2:02 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <lars
at nocrew.org> wrote:
What about software?
A listing of RSTS-11 V0 (when it was still called BTSS). And a listing for a program to
calculate e and pi, on a Philips PR8000 -- a machine for which information appears to be
entirely absent from the Internet.
paul
1:39 p.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On 1/11/17 11:02 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
What about software?
tough one.. I've worked on recovering a lot of rare stuff.
Probably the copy of the University of Hawaii BCC-500 backup tapes, since there was only
ever one BCC-500
At CHM, probably the Whirlwind paper and magnetic tapes, or the TX-0 paper tapes, or the
MIT PDP-1X
tapes, or ....
13 Jan
13 Jan
2:47 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
What about software?
I guess the PDP-11 operating system TRANTOR would be my most unusual
piece.
"Trantor was created by Steve Orszag of the MIT Applied Math
department to access the CDC and Cray computers at NCAR for his fluid
dynamics research. NCAR expected people to access the systems with
an expensive piece of equipment that read punched cards, sent off the
data over a synchronous modem using a proprietary protocol, and then
sent output back to the printer. Not only was it expensive, who
wanted to use punch cards? So Orszag bought a PDP-11 and hired
undergrads to write software to use Emacs-like editing to create
programs on the local harddrive, submit them using the proprietary
protocol (which we sort of had to reverse engineer), and print and
graph the results. ECC, CBF, and I were the early developers (there
were a host of undergrad and grad student users as well, doing fluid
dynamics). Somehow this was cheaper than the archaic method.
Trantor was then a communications OS with built-in applications. We
did the development on MIT-MC using the PDP-11 assembler and
emulator."
I recently found a copy and sent it to the original authors.
2:52 a.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
i have something called coss-4 never been able to find anything on it
https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/6109885397/in/photolist-doJhoE-aiUL4F-5r…
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org> wrote:
What about
software?
I guess the PDP-11 operating system TRANTOR would be my most unusual
piece.
"Trantor was created by Steve Orszag of the MIT Applied Math
department to access the CDC and Cray computers at NCAR for his fluid
dynamics research. NCAR expected people to access the systems with
an expensive piece of equipment that read punched cards, sent off the
data over a synchronous modem using a proprietary protocol, and then
sent output back to the printer. Not only was it expensive, who
wanted to use punch cards? So Orszag bought a PDP-11 and hired
undergrads to write software to use Emacs-like editing to create
programs on the local harddrive, submit them using the proprietary
protocol (which we sort of had to reverse engineer), and print and
graph the results. ECC, CBF, and I were the early developers (there
were a host of undergrad and grad student users as well, doing fluid
dynamics). Somehow this was cheaper than the archaic method.
Trantor was then a communications OS with built-in applications. We
did the development on MIT-MC using the PDP-11 assembler and
emulator."
I recently found a copy and sent it to the original authors.
15 Jan
15 Jan
12:26 p.m.
New subject: What's the rarest or most unusual software item do you own?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org> wrote:
What about software?
I've just realised I do have something that might be relevant here.
There was a British research satellite called UK6. Various universities made
experiments to fly on it. And there was a test unit which provided the same
services that the satellite provided (power, comms, etc) so that said
experiment units could be verified without needing the satellite.
The test unit was controlled by a PDP11/10. I have the software for this,
a tray of paper tapes (I think both source (assembler) and binary). I suspect
that is quite rare.
(Oh, and I do have the test unit. But no satellite or experiments)
-tony
12 Jan
12 Jan
1:53 a.m.
Rich Alderson wrote:
Eric's got a KL. If he had a KA, I would have
tracked him down and
beaten him to a pulp to lay hands on it--and we're friends.
This is the third time in a few weeks that I've seen people eagerly
looking for a KA10. Is someone pulling strings behind the scenes? CIA
wants an upgrade for their PDP-3?
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