21 Jan
2018
21 Jan
'18
2:25 p.m.
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a
disaster (BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door,
missing right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be complete; board
wise we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can use
to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how to actually
use the thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I
don't know for sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out
there, alongside whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required it,
and then at least running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know
to what extent this machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to
even run.
cheers
Jules
21 Jan
21 Jan
3:02 p.m.
On 01/21/2018 01:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house,
and now I hurt) a Microvax II from another list member
yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster (BA123 has a
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door,
missing right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be
complete; board wise we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have
absolutely zero knowledge about these systems - so my
question at this stage is what background reading I need
to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks, actually
hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I
can use to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to
that point) how to actually use the thing (I'm assuming it
was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't know for
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out
there, alongside whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of
pulling all boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to
whatever PSU rails required it, and then at least running
the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what
extent this machine requires some logic in place for the
PSU to even run.
Well, you need to hook up a serial terminal, set the baud
rate, and see if it gives the power-on self diagnostic sequence.
The TK50 is likely not going to work due to deteriorated
rubber rollers and such. Does it have a disk drive?
If not, it won't do much. If it does, it is a bit iffy if
the drive will spin up and unlock heads. I have a similar
setup here, but my SCSI disk drive died. The CPU still
fires up just fine - amazing for a machine I ran for 21 years.
Jon
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:46 a.m.
New subject: anybody need a 25 foot Unibus cable?
While cleaning up at work, I found a 25 foot Unibus cable in
decent condition. Anybody need one?
Jon
1:20 a.m.
New subject: anybody need a 25 foot Unibus cable?
On Feb 7, 2018, at 9:46 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
While cleaning up at work, I found a 25 foot Unibus cable in decent condition. Anybody
need one?
Jon
I wish I needed one, that would be an interesting problem to have. :-)
Actually you jogged a memory, I think I have something like that out in the garage in with
my PDP-11 spares.
Zane
3:53 a.m.
New subject: anybody need a 25 foot Unibus cable?
Hi Jon,
I'm hopefully building a few Unibus systems later this rear. I have several
10 and maybe a 15 foot cables, but I never thought about needing anything
longer. In a 4 rack system that becomes a real possibility. You better let
me know what you want for it...
Thanks, Paul
On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 11:46 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
While cleaning up at work, I found a 25 foot Unibus
cable in decent
condition. Anybody need one?
Jon
4:23 p.m.
New subject: anybody need a 25 foot Unibus cable?
Sorry, that should have been sent off list.
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 2:53 AM, Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jon,
I'm hopefully building a few Unibus systems later this rear. I have
several 10 and maybe a 15 foot cables, but I never thought about needing
anything longer. In a 4 rack system that becomes a real possibility. You
better let me know what you want for it...
Thanks, Paul
On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 11:46 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
While cleaning up at work, I found a 25 foot
Unibus cable in decent
condition. Anybody need one?
Jon
21 Jan
21 Jan
4:20 p.m.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster
(BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing
right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we
have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
First thing I would do myself is remove the NiCad battery pack from
the back of the console connector bulkhead panel and inspect the
console panel PCB for any signs of corrosion. In my experience those
old NiCad battery packs can leak and start to destroy anything near
them.
Note that the DB9 connector on the MicroVAX KA630 / 650 / 655 console
bulkhead panel is not the same as the usual PC standard. For DEC
original cables you need a BCC08, or if you're doing MMJ cables an
H8571-B or an H8575-B MMJ adapter. Of course you can always build your
own cable.
Table 14-7 MicroVAX DB9 Pin-out
http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/faq/vmsfaq_025.html#tbl_uvdb9
Table 14-8 DECconnect MMJ Connectors and Adapters
http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/faq/vmsfaq_025.html#wires2
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/630/
MP02071_630QB_Mar85.pdf -- Maintenance Print Set
Page 85 of the PDF, Function Selection & SLU Module (FS&SLU) for M7608 (KA630)
AZ-GM3AA-MN_uVAXII_Maint_Oct85.pdf -- MicroVAX Maintenance Guide
Page 23 of the PDF, page 1-15, FIGURE 1-10 Backplane Grant Continuity
If this is your first time with a BA123 it is important to note that
the right most slots 1 through 4 are Q22/CD slots. Don't put any dual
wide cards in the lower CD half of slots 1 through 4. The CPU should
always be in slot 1 and the first memory card in slot 2. If you have a
second memory card it would go in slot 3. If slot 3 or slot 4 would
otherwise be empty you need an M9047 grant continuity only in the top
AB half of the slots. If any AB or CD half of slots 5 through 12 would
otherwise be empty you need an M9047 grant continuity in each half
between the CPU and the last slot that is in use.
The M7606 KA630 CPU contains 1MB. Together with the M7608 4MB memory
board you then have 5MB total. I've never tried running a system with
that little memory. If you're actually going to do anything with the
system you might look for a cheap M7609 8MB memory board to use
instead for 9MB, or use both for 13MB if you have a 3-way memory bus
cable.
If it was me I might look for a cheap M7620 KA650 or M7625 KA655 CPU
and 1 to 3 M7622 16MB memory boards. Those CPUs can use up to 64MB but
you are limited to 3 memory boards in a BA123 because there are only 4
Q22/CD slots. I maxed out my own BA123 with an M7625 KA655 CPU and 2
Dataram 32MB memory boards to get to 64MB.
-Glen
5:04 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
To: xx Classiccmp mailing list <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax
II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically
it's a disaster (BA123
has a
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door,
missing right-rear
panel)
but internally it appears to be complete; board wise
we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use to
diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that
point) how to actually
use the
thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than
Ultrix, but I don't
know for
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy
tutorials out there, alongside
whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required
it, and then at
least
running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't
know to what extent
this
machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to
even run.
cheers
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
Regards
Rob
5:50 p.m.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards), troublesome
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#Troubles>, and not supported
by VMS <http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#VMS_Support> since
about V5.4. A compatible card, the DELQA
<http://antinode.info/dec/delqa_settings.html>, replaces the DEQNA.
I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5 removed support, but looks
like 5.4 is the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP, so
you might be better off with VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.
Warner
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
To: xx Classiccmp mailing list <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt)
a
Microvax
II from another list member yesterday.
Cosmetically it's a disaster
(BA123
has a
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front
door, missing right-rear
panel)
but internally it appears to be complete; board
wise we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use
to
diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that
point) how to actually
use the
thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather
than Ultrix, but I don't
know for
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any
handy tutorials out there,
alongside
whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails
required it, and then at
least
running the PSU up in isolation first, but I
don't know to what extent
this
machine requires some logic in place for the PSU
to even run.
cheers
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon
go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
5:51 p.m.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Doh! Hit send too soon:
The website http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html says
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
To: xx Classiccmp mailing list <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I
hurt) a
Microvax
II from another list member yesterday.
Cosmetically it's a disaster
(BA123
has a
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front
door, missing right-rear
panel)
but internally it appears to be complete; board
wise we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use
to
diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that
point) how to actually
use the
thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather
than Ultrix, but I don't
know for
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any
handy tutorials out there,
alongside
whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails
required it, and then at
least
running the PSU up in isolation first, but I
don't know to what extent
this
machine requires some logic in place for the PSU
to even run.
cheers
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon
go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in
the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to
boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with
a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards),
troublesome
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#Troubles>, and not
supported by VMS
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#VMS_Support> since about
V5.4. A compatible card, the DELQA
<http://antinode.info/dec/delqa_settings.html>, replaces the DEQNA.
the rest is me
I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5
removed support, but
looks like 5.4 is the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP,
so you might be better off with VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.
Warner
6:12 p.m.
When I was talking about VMS 5.x I meant that cluster to net boot from. I would suggest
MicroVMS for the machine itself.
Regards
Rob
From: wlosh at bsdimp.com [mailto:wlosh at bsdimp.com] On Behalf Of Warner Losh
Sent: 21 January 2018 22:52
To: rob at jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>; General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Cc: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Microvax II 'primer'?
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com <mailto:imp at
bsdimp.com> > wrote:
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk-bounces at
classiccmp.org> ] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
To: xx Classiccmp mailing list <cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at
classiccmp.org> >
Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax
II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically
it's a disaster (BA123
has a
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door,
missing right-rear
panel)
but internally it appears to be complete; board wise
we have:
M7606 - CPU
M7608 - 4MB ram
M9047 - grant continuity
M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use to
diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that
point) how to actually
use the
thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than
Ultrix, but I don't
know for
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy
tutorials out there, alongside
whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required
it, and then at
least
running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't
know to what extent
this
machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to
even run.
cheers
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
Doh! Hit send too soon:
The website http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html says
The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards), troublesome
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#Troubles> , and not supported by VMS
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#VMS_Support> since about V5.4. A
compatible card, the DELQA <http://antinode.info/dec/delqa_settings.html> , replaces
the DEQNA.
the rest is me
I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5 removed support, but looks like 5.4 is
the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP, so you might be better off with
VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.
Warner
22 Jan
22 Jan
8:43 a.m.
On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in
smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.
Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have extremely
good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but I'm always
prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU
visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not popped
the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't even
need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).
I see on the output rating label that it lists connection points for
different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable
resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or so, and
see how it goes.
Once you have the machine up and running...
Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)
I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.
Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about right now is how the bus
evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards which I
saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB board (made by
Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if that's designed for
earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use whatsoever in a Vax world...
cheers
Jules
9:07 a.m.
At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU
or a linear (I've not
popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then
it perhaps doesn't
even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).
It's actually 3 separate boards and 2 identical discrete PSUs for +12 and
+5 in a massive metal box, the thing is a beast and fits along the whole
side of the machine behind the Q22 backplane.
Cheers
A
On 22 January 2018 at 13:43, Jules Richardson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)
I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.
Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about right now is how the bus
evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards which I
saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB board (made by
Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if that's designed for
earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use whatsoever in a Vax world...
cheers
Jules
--
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up
in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.
Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have extremely
good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but I'm always
prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC
load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in
the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not
popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't
even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).
I see on the output rating label that it lists connection points for
different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable
resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or so, and
see how it goes.
Once you have the machine up and running...
23 Jan
23 Jan
10:12 p.m.
On 01/22/2018 08:07 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
Aha, so it is... I just removed it for a visual inspection. Pretty clean
inside, some dust, five or six mouse turds (but no sign of piss damage), a
chunk of slate, and a golf tee.
When the bit of slate fell out I was a little concerned that it was a
fragment of ceramic IC/component packaging, but I really do think it's just
a piece of slate tile or whatnot that had somehow found its way in there
over the years.
No obviously-roached caps or other components, so I'll figure out some form
of loading and give it a go.
cheers
J.
At this stage
I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not
popped the panel
off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't
even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).
It's actually 3 separate boards and 2 identical discrete PSUs for +12 and
+5 in a massive metal box, the thing is a beast and fits along the whole
side of the machine behind the Q22 backplane.
22 Jan
22 Jan
11:49 a.m.
On 01/22/2018 07:43 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
All VAX and uVAX main power supplies are switching types.
If you see an electrolytic cap in there with a 200+ V
rating, that's a certain giveaway of a switching supply.
Jon
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up
in smoke
soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.
Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to
have extremely good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike
other people, but I'm always prepared for the cloud of
smoke :-)
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU
visually
for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If you have one of the DEC load
boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think
there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear
(I've not popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's
linear then it perhaps doesn't even need a load to do its
thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at least
need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has
built-in load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as
designs occasionally do).
2:50 p.m.
On 1/22/18 8:43 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
Its a SMPS.? It must be loaded to work right and there are no loading
resistors.
FYI there ca be an ISSUE with the SMPS to backplane cable.? The correct
part has equal
length wires.? The earlier version of the cable had unequal length wires
and tended to
overheat some of the pins and fail.? Be aware.
On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
I have several BA23 boxes both PDP11 and MicroVAX and never had this
problem.
I may be a Eu (230V ac) issue.
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up
in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.
Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have
extremely good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but
I'm always prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)
Otherwise it
is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any
obviously
failed electrolytics. If? you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much
in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not
popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps
doesn't even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I
expect it'll at least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too
(unless it has built-in load resistors to keep the regulation happy,
as designs occasionally do).
I see on the output rating label that it lists
connection points for
different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable
resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or
so, and see how it goes.
For MicroVMS its adequate but minimal.? Typical systems had 8 or 12MB
though 16mb was possible.
For VMS 5 the DEQNA is fine if working, also you need 8mb to run well.?
With 12mb or more and a large disk (min RD54) VMS 6 or later is possible
with DELQA (required after VMS5.4).
It will also run NetBSD (Myneed 8MB) and also Ultrix.
For disks....
RD53 is 31mb (maybe adequate for MicroVMS), RD53 is about 70MB, RD54 is
153mb.
The RD 54 is the biggest drive for the RQDX disk controller.? IF a CMD
scsi controller
is in there then RZ scsi drives can be used and small started at about
300mb and up.
Once you have the machine up and running...
Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)
I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.
Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about
right now is how the
bus evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards
which I saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB
board (made by Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if
that's designed for earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use
whatsoever in a Vax world...
The correct board for MicroVAXII cpu has the over the top connector that
lines up with the cpu
and needs a IDC 50 pin connector for CPU and each board, max of 3.
DO get the MicroVAX tech and user manual off bitsavers.? It will help
greatly.?? FYI many PDP11
board can be used to the limit of the backplane space the exception is
memory as it must
be MicrovaxII? PMI (private memory bus interface).
FYI there are three possible cpus.? MicroVAX-I not much use as it very
limited, MicroVAXII KA630
was the stock cpu and the later KA650 coule be installed.? All three use
memory unique to that
CPU.
Also learn the backplane as it has unique slots for CPU and memory and
shuffling cards can
cause problems.
The panel on the back cover carries the console connector and the TOY
(time of year) battery
backup (NICd) that do fail and leak.? Replace.
Also the default NI interface is AUI so an AUI too Either coax or Cat 3
or 5 wire is needed.
Like I said get the book its a very interesting machine and if the disk
has a valid and boot able
OS there is a specific procedure for lost system password.
Allison
2:18 p.m.
I can't believe you 'just carry it into the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels for a
reason!? The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.? Too heavy.
When I got mine, it had only 3MB of memory and I found that I couldn't
install VMS 5.5-2 or 7.3 with that amount of memory.? I put in an 8 MB
board and 11 MB total was fine.
You should make your own cable to connect the console to a PC or
terminal.? Its that odd.? I found the PC connection to be helpful
because you can log what you are doing.
Yes, remove the NiCad battery.
The box I got had 3 RD53 disks in it and none worked.? I am using a
Viking SCSI controller and a SCSI2SD drive to boot the system.
I left the RX50 drives in and reconfigured the RQDX2 to address them.?
They come in handy for getting the VMS hobbyist licenses in.
The TK50 never worked.
I put a DELQA in for networking, never tried a DEQNA.
I consider it an important machine in computing history.? It allowed
scientific researchers, like myself, to get off of remote mainframes
that billed at fantastic rates and compute in a more relaxed environment.
BTW there is one in the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC.
On 1/21/2018 2:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I
hurt) a Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically
it's a disaster (BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing
front door, missing right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be
complete; board wise we have:
? M7606 - CPU
? M7608 - 4MB ram
? M9047 - grant continuity
? M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
? M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
? M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
? M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I
can use to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how
to actually use the thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than
Ultrix, but I don't know for sure). I'm wondering there aren't any
handy tutorials out there, alongside whatever DEC docs are recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required
it, and then at least running the PSU up in isolation first, but I
don't know to what extent this machine requires some logic in place
for the PSU to even run.
cheers
Jules
3:05 p.m.
On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
I can't believe you 'just carry it into the
house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels for
a reason!? The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.? Too heavy.
Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice the
size and internal board space.
I have both.? I can't lift a BA23 anymore, old back.
When I got mine, it had only 3MB of memory and I found
that I couldn't
install VMS 5.5-2 or 7.3 with that amount of memory.? I put in an 8 MB
board and 11 MB total was fine.
Sounds about right.
You should make your own cable to connect the console
to a PC or
terminal.? Its that odd.? I found the PC connection to be helpful
because you can log what you are doing.
Yes, remove the NiCad battery.
Its easily replaced.
The box I got had 3 RD53 disks in it and none worked.?
I am using a
Viking SCSI controller and a SCSI2SD drive to boot the system.
RD53s had a problem with the head sticking against the stops.? I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.
A Viking or CMD SCSI controller makes using larger and more modern disks
easy.? A disk of 500 MB
will run a lot of users and VMS will not use much of it.
I left the RX50 drives in and reconfigured the RQDX2
to address them.
They come in handy for getting the VMS hobbyist licenses in.
The TK50 never worked.
It can be very handy.
I put a DELQA in for networking, never tried a DEQNA.
If the DEQNA works use it Support is there through V5.4 and the driver?
is there for later but
unsupported (don't call FS!).?? Delqa tens to be more reliable.
I consider it an important machine in computing
history.? It allowed
scientific researchers, like myself, to get off of remote mainframes
that billed at fantastic rates and compute in a more relaxed environment.
BTW there is one in the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC.
I have two MicroVAXIIs on in BA23, the other as a BA123 (uVAXII/GPX).?
Also a few uVAX2000,
and a slew of uVAX3100s.?? A 3100 can be handy as both a VAX and a boot
host for the MicroVAXII.
I run the whole bunch in the winter for a few days each year (12
systems) as a LAVC
(local area connected) VAX Cluster.? Much fun and about 1400watts of heat.
Allison
On 1/21/2018 2:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech
wrote:
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I
hurt) a Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically
it's a disaster (BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels,
missing front door, missing right-rear panel) but internally it
appears to be complete; board wise we have:
? M7606 - CPU
? M7608 - 4MB ram
? M9047 - grant continuity
? M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
? M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
? M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
? M7546 - TX50 controller
... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup*
checks, actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal
config I can use to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that
point) how to actually use the thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS
rather than Ultrix, but I don't know for sure). I'm wondering there
aren't any handy tutorials out there, alongside whatever DEC docs are
recommended.
* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required
it, and then at least running the PSU up in isolation first, but I
don't know to what extent this machine requires some logic in place
for the PSU to even run.
cheers
Jules
23 Jan
23 Jan
7:58 p.m.
On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:
Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a testing
phase)?
If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it, but it
doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving it in
initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings (e.g. disk
parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down - assuming the
system proves to be operational - before replacing it?
On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the van
myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could drag it
through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then picked it up
again and took it up the few steps that were necessary. Did I mention that
it was heavy?
I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it (just)
then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the metal bar at
the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want to carry one far.
I can't believe you 'just carry it into
the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels for a
reason! The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again. Too heavy.
Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice the size
and internal board space. Yes, remove
the NiCad battery.
Its easily replaced. RD53s had a problem with the head sticking against the
stops. I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.
That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if it
proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)
cheers
Jules
9 p.m.
On 01/23/2018 07:58 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:
Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a
testing phase)?
If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it,
but it doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving
it in initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings
(e.g. disk parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down -
assuming the system proves to be operational - before replacing it?
If its working and not leaking go for it.? Its easy to replace when you
need to.
My favorite line for all this is Kaplagh~!? Go for it and get the docs
they can really help!?
Allison
On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:
Your younger than I.? I moved min in the summer so the wheels were good
end ough anda 2WD Toyota pickup (1999) is low
so it was slide it up and in.? Using a a winch didn't hurt either.
On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the
van myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could
drag it through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then
picked it up again and took it up the few steps that were necessary.
Did I mention that it was heavy?
I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it
(just) then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the
metal bar at the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want
to carry one far.
I can't believe you 'just carry it into
the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels
for a
reason!? The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.? Too heavy.
Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice
the size
and internal board space. Yes, remove the NiCad battery.
Its easily replaced. RD53s had a
problem with the head sticking against the stops.? I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.
That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if
it proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)
cheers
Jules
10:28 p.m.
On 1/23/2018 7:58 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:
On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:
It won't get stolen.? At VCF there were some
young folks who helped me,
thanks to them!
On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the
van myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could
drag it through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then
picked it up again and took it up the few steps that were necessary.
Did I mention that it was heavy? I can't believe you 'just carry it into
the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels
for a
reason!? The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.? Too heavy.
Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice
the size
and internal board space.
I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it
(just) then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the
metal bar at the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want
to carry one far.
Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a
testing phase)?
I was able to start and run the machine w/o the battery.? Had to
enter
the date/time each startup.? Not sure what else was remembered by the
battery backup.
Yes,
remove the NiCad battery.
Its easily replaced.
If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it,
but it doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving
it in initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings
(e.g. disk parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down -
assuming the system proves to be operational - before replacing it?
I saved the RD53's,
maybe they can be revived.
RD53s had a problem with the head sticking
against the stops.? I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.
That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if
it proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)
cheers
Jules
24 Jan
24 Jan
6:46 p.m.
On 01/21/2018 01:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax II from another list member yesterday.
OK, the top PSU of the pair in this machine appears to be healthy. The
bottom one, however, sits at around 2.5V on both the +5V and +12V outputs.
That's without any cards, and the card-cage fan / temperature sensor
unplugged, i.e. just with my dummy loads in place, so it looks like that
PSU has issues (oh, and I tried decoupling the PSU from the backplane and
loading it via the drive connector, so it doesn't appear to be a backplane
issue).
I expect it's fixable, but I'm unsure what the system may have done at the
point it originally failed, given that it was responsible for both the
card-cage fan and the temperature sensor - hopefully it didn't sit there
for hours with no card cooling, no overheat sensor, and with power applied
to [at least some of] the cards via the still-working PSU.
Jules
2439
days inactive
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days old
21 comments
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allisonportable＠gmail.com -
binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com -
dj.taylor4＠comcast.net -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
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robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
useddec＠gmail.com