27 Oct
2001
27 Oct
'01
12:31 p.m.
I know I've seen many things on this in th epast but wasn't paying
attention. I have some free time now and want to do some tinkering. Are
there browsers and email agents for the Commodore 64/128 series and DOS
(2.11 through 6.22). I prefer a free or shareware one to be able to test it
to see if it's a POS or not. I want to use the DOS version on a few
platforms from an 8086/8088 to a 386. I have a 286 portable NEC that I'd
like to try it out on first.
Thanks in advance.
27 Oct
27 Oct
4:18 p.m.
Russ Blakeman skrev:
I know I've seen many things on this in th epast
but wasn't paying
attention. I have some free time now and want to do some tinkering. Are
there browsers and email agents for the Commodore 64/128 series and DOS
(2.11 through 6.22). I prefer a free or shareware one to be able to test it
to see if it's a POS or not. I want to use the DOS version on a few
platforms from an 8086/8088 to a 386. I have a 286 portable NEC that I'd
like to try it out on first.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
[snip]
<hrm> Hopefully some programms which won't let you send HTML.
As for MS-DOS and derivatives (I suppose that's the DOS you'd run), do a
search for WATTCP. That's the stack I use on my DOS box (PS/2 model 70, to be
replaced by a mod. 70 486). There's supposed to be a big WATTCP page in
Norway.
I seem to forget what the name of that OLR (off-line reader =) for C64/128 is
called, but it seemed awfully capable. I also seem to forget whether it is
developed by Cameron Kaiser. There are at least two browsers, too. Or three. I
think Cameron is developing one, then there's one for SuperCPU users, and one
developed by Fairlight. At least one goes by the name Wave.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
You can't prove anything about a program written in C or FORTRAN. It's really
just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar.
Bill Joy
3:43 p.m.
I've heard of a c-128 on the net, but with what I have no idea. I know
there is a demand out there for mailers for the 64, there is probably
some sort of TSP/IP stack and associated software to go with it.
I think everything is text based, no whizz bang graphics.
Gary Hildebrand
Iggy Drougge wrote:
Russ Blakeman skrev:
I know I've seen many things on this in th
epast but wasn't paying
attention. I have some free time now and want to do some tinkering. Are
there browsers and email agents for the Commodore 64/128 series and DOS
(2.11 through 6.22). I prefer a free or shareware one to be able to test it
to see if it's a POS or not. I want to use the DOS version on a few
platforms from an 8086/8088 to a 386. I have a 286 portable NEC that I'd
like to try it out on first.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML
4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
[snip]
<hrm> Hopefully some programms which won't let you send HTML.
As for MS-DOS and derivatives (I suppose that's the DOS you'd run), do a
search for WATTCP. That's the stack I use on my DOS box (PS/2 model 70, to be
replaced by a mod. 70 486). There's supposed to be a big WATTCP page in
Norway.
I seem to forget what the name of that OLR (off-line reader =) for C64/128 is
called, but it seemed awfully capable. I also seem to forget whether it is
developed by Cameron Kaiser. There are at least two browsers, too. Or three. I
think Cameron is developing one, then there's one for SuperCPU users, and one
developed by Fairlight. At least one goes by the name Wave.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
You can't prove anything about a program written in C or FORTRAN. It's really
just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar.
Bill Joy
5 p.m.
Gary Hildebrand skrev h?gst upp som en riktig datahacker:
I've heard of a c-128 on the net, but with what I
have no idea. I know
there is a demand out there for mailers for the 64, there is probably
some sort of TSP/IP stack and associated software to go with it.
There's been a TCP/IP stack for quite a while by Andr? Fachat, or if it was
Dallman: http://www.heilbronn.netsurf.de/~dallmann/c64.html
OTOH, that stack didn't have much application support. Telnet, possibly FTP or
IRC as well.
I think everything is text based, no whizz bang
graphics.
At least one browser is graphical. With VIC graphics, though, it's not always
that easy to recognise pictures. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Allt ?r under kontroll, och caps lock ?r bredvid.
8:13 p.m.
Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Gary Hildebrand" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
Gary Hildebrand skrev h?gst upp som en riktig
datahacker:
I've heard of a c-128 on the net, but with
what I have no idea. I know
there is a demand out there for mailers for the 64, there is probably
some sort of TSP/IP stack and associated software to go with it.
There's been a TCP/IP stack for quite a while by Andr? Fachat, or if it was
Dallman: http://www.heilbronn.netsurf.de/~dallmann/c64.html
OTOH, that stack didn't have much application support. Telnet, possibly FTP or
IRC as well.
I think everything is text based, no whizz bang
graphics.
At least one browser is graphical. With VIC graphics, though, it's not always
that easy to recognise pictures. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Allt ?r under kontroll, och caps lock ?r bredvid.
8:39 p.m.
Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era
had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
The C128 has a Z80 and 8502 (6502 derivative) but they do not operate
simultaneously. The Z80 in the C128 is virtually only used for CP/M; very
little native mode software uses it. (Interestingly, it is the master
processor on bootup -- see
http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/d128.html
). All other Commodore 8-bits are 6502-based only, although there is a
Z80 cartridge for the C64 to allow it to run CP/M 2.2.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Honk if you're illiterate! -------------------------------------------------
9:13 p.m.
What I wondered was which CPU runs the IP stack.
Do you know? Is the source code where one can look it over?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
> Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that
era had both the Z80 and
the
65xx,
didn't they?
The C128 has a Z80 and 8502 (6502 derivative) but they do not operate
simultaneously. The Z80 in the C128 is virtually only used for CP/M; very
little native mode software uses it. (Interestingly, it is the master
processor on bootup -- see
http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/d128.html
). All other Commodore 8-bits are 6502-based only, although there is a
Z80 cartridge for the C64 to allow it to run CP/M 2.2.
--
----------------------------- personal page: Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University *
ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Honk if you're
illiterate!
-------------------------------------------------
9:19 p.m.
Richard Erlacher skrev:
Erlacher, are you replying on top just to spite me? How will we sort this out
now? Will I have to snip the passage which would contain information supplying
the context? Yes, I'll have to do that.
When will you learn?
Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era
had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
This? The SuperCPU? That's a 65816.
The VIC-20 used a 6502, the C64 a 6510 and the C128 used an 8510, IIRC, as
well as a Z80 for CP/M.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson!
Jag: Det heter du inte alls!
9:12 p.m.
It's hard to know what to do in this environment. I've been crabbed at so many
times for leaving the context in place, which I definitely prefer, since I
process lots (hundreds) of emails every day and am getting forgetful as I get
older, hence tend to lose my place. Several people have slow terminals via
shell access, however, and can't take the time to download all the prior
context, however. Some places, as you may know, charge for email by the bit,
which means chopping off the prior message saves them money as well as time.
Having a fairly high bandwidth connection myself, it doesn't matter so much at
this end.
HOWEVER ... what I was asking about, actually was WHICH CPU in the COM64/128
runs the browser/etc software. Maybe this thread has drifted off, but I was
just curious whether somebody had built a stack for the 6502 core.
I've been curious because I'm looking at whipping up a middle layer IP stack
processor in programmable logic, implementing just the TCP/UDP at the top and
IP/ICMP at the bottom, leaving ARP and all the lower-level (local networi) stuff
for someone else, and likewise, leaving the upper layers for someone else as
well, e.g. by shoving the data out parallel ports. I have to be able to stream
at a rate that keeps up with 10Gb ethernet, parallel interfaced at the lower
interface, however. Seeing how this works on a simple CPU like the 6502 core
might shed some light and provide some inspiration.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Richard Erlacher" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
Richard Erlacher skrev:
Erlacher, are you replying on top just to spite me? How will we sort this out
now? Will I have to snip the passage which would contain information supplying
the context? Yes, I'll have to do that.
When will you learn?
Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that
era had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
This? The SuperCPU? That's a 65816.
The VIC-20 used a 6502, the C64 a 6510 and the C128 used an 8510, IIRC, as
well as a Z80 for CP/M.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson!
Jag: Det heter du inte alls!
29 Oct
29 Oct
2:43 a.m.
Check out http://www.cc65.org
And for a free TCP/IP implementation, check out:
http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/
This is compiled under cc65.
Cheers,
Bryan Pope
28 Oct
28 Oct
4:17 a.m.
The VIC-20 used a 6502, the C64 a 6510 and the C128
used an 8510, IIRC, as
well as a Z80 for CP/M.
8502, actually. There is also a 7501/8501 used in the Plus/4 and 16, and
a 4510 used in the mythical C65. HMOS-2 C64s and 64Cs use the 8500.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- What you don't know won't help you much either. -- D. Bennett --------------
1:03 p.m.
Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era
had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
Only the C-128 had both CPU's.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
1:41 p.m.
Yes, but WHICH CPU runs the IP stack?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
Which CPU does
this use? The COMMODOREs of that era had both the Z80 and the
65xx, didn't they?
Only the C-128 had both CPU's.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:02 p.m.
Since in the C-128 the CPU's don't operate concurrently, I'd
say it would be the 65XX/85XX series chip since otherwise you'd have
to boot into C-128 CP/M+ in order to use the Z80. Also if the IP
stack was usable on the C-64 it'd have to be using the 65xx/85xx
series chiop since the C-64 doesn't have a Z80, not counting the one
installed in the C64's CP/M cartridge.
Jeff
Yes, but WHICH CPU runs the IP stack?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
> >Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era had both the
>Z80 and the
> >65xx, didn't they?
>
> Only the C-128 had both CPU's.
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:33 p.m.
Interesting ... Is the source for this IP implementation available anywhere?
I'd be interested in having a peek.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
Since in the C-128 the CPU's don't operate
concurrently, I'd
say it would be the 65XX/85XX series chip since otherwise you'd have
to boot into C-128 CP/M+ in order to use the Z80. Also if the IP
stack was usable on the C-64 it'd have to be using the 65xx/85xx
series chiop since the C-64 doesn't have a Z80, not counting the one
installed in the C64's CP/M cartridge.
Jeff
Yes, but WHICH CPU runs the IP stack?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
> >Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era had both the
>Z80 and the
> >65xx, didn't they?
>
> Only the C-128 had both CPU's.
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:33 p.m.
128 and 128D to be exact. I love the 128D, too bad Commodore waited so long
to finally get it right.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
-> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:03 PM
-> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
->
->
-> >Which CPU does this use? The COMMODOREs of that era had both
-> the Z80 and the
-> >65xx, didn't they?
->
-> Only the C-128 had both CPU's.
->
-> Jeff
-> --
-> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
-> http://www.cchaven.com
-> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
->
->
2:51 p.m.
128 and 128D to be exact. I love the 128D, too bad
Commodore waited so long
to finally get it right.
I tend to use 'C-128' to refer to either of them, though the
128D is different in some respects. I don't believe there's much, if
anything, that requires one over the other. I also like the 128D but
have often wondered why they used such a hefty connector for the
keyboard.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5:17 p.m.
I belive that the mainboard inthe 128D is probably the same with the
addition of maybe a few things but basically the same with exception of the
case and builtin floppy. I though it was a pretty humungous connector too
but hey it works.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
-> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 7:51 PM
-> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> Subject: RE: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
->
->
-> >128 and 128D to be exact. I love the 128D, too bad Commodore
-> waited so long
-> >to finally get it right.
->
-> I tend to use 'C-128' to refer to either of them, though the
-> 128D is different in some respects. I don't believe there's much, if
-> anything, that requires one over the other. I also like the 128D but
-> have often wondered why they used such a hefty connector for the
-> keyboard.
->
-> Jeff
-> --
-> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
-> http://www.cchaven.com
-> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
->
->
5:20 p.m.
I belive that the mainboard inthe 128D is probably the same with the
addition of maybe a few things but basically the same with exception of the
case and builtin floppy. I though it was a pretty humungous connector too
but hey it works.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
-> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 7:51 PM
-> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> Subject: RE: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
->
->
-> >128 and 128D to be exact. I love the 128D, too bad Commodore
-> waited so long
-> >to finally get it right.
->
-> I tend to use 'C-128' to refer to either of them, though the
-> 128D is different in some respects. I don't believe there's much, if
-> anything, that requires one over the other. I also like the 128D but
-> have often wondered why they used such a hefty connector for the
-> keyboard.
->
-> Jeff
-> --
-> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
-> http://www.cchaven.com
-> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
->
->
5:29 p.m.
128 and 128D to
be exact. I love the 128D, too bad Commodore waited so long
to finally get it right.
I tend to use 'C-128' to refer to either of them, though the
128D is different in some respects. I don't believe there's much, if
anything, that requires one over the other. I also like the 128D but
have often wondered why they used such a hefty connector for the
keyboard.
29 Oct
29 Oct
5:15 a.m.
Jeff Hellige skrev:
>128 and 128D to be exact. I love the 128D, too bad
Commodore waited so long
>to finally get it right.
I tend to use 'C-128' to refer to either of
them, though the
128D is different in some respects. I don't believe there's much, if
anything, that requires one over the other. I also like the 128D but
have often wondered why they used such a hefty connector for the
keyboard.
Because they didn't have the sense to serialise the keyboard data, I suppose.
OTOH, they keyboard is very light for its age.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
27 Oct
27 Oct
4:01 p.m.
New subject: System pickup help in Santa Fe, NM?
Is there anyone on the list in the Santa Fe, New Mexico area? I think I
just bought my birthday and Christmas present for the next couple of years
and could use some help with picking up and shipping the system. If you
can help, please contact me off list.
Thanks!
-- Tony
4:43 p.m.
New subject: System pickup help in Santa Fe, NM?
Sorry, I can't help but I'm curious: what did you buy and what
did you pay for it to pay it off over the next couple of years?
-Gunther
Tony Eros wrote:
Is there anyone on the list in the Santa Fe, New
Mexico area? I think I
just bought my birthday and Christmas present for the next couple of
years and could use some help with picking up and shipping the system.
If you can help, please contact me off list.
Thanks!
-- Tony
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
5:34 p.m.
New subject: System pickup help in Santa Fe, NM?
I was high bidder for a Xerox 8010 workstation (frequently referred to as
the Xerox Star) on eBay.
I hate eBay -- I'm a real fan of yard sales and this is the world's
biggest. It's just too darned easy to spend _way_ too much money there,
but then again, I got nobody to blame but myself, don't I :-)
-- Tony
At 08:43 PM 10/27/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Sorry, I can't help but I'm curious: what did
you buy and what
did you pay for it to pay it off over the next couple of years?
-Gunther
Tony Eros wrote:
Is there anyone on the list in the Santa Fe, New
Mexico area? I think I
just bought my birthday and Christmas present for the next couple of
years and could use some help with picking up and shipping the system.
If you can help, please contact me off list.
Thanks!
-- Tony
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
6:56 p.m.
No HTML sent out here, may be inserted somewhere down the road after it
leaves my machine as I have always had the Classic Comp list in plain text
mode. Thanks for the hints by the way, to all of you that answered.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge
-> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 8:19 PM
-> To: Russ Blakeman
-> Subject: Re: email/browser for DOS or C64/128?
->
->
-> Russ Blakeman skrev:
->
-> >I know I've seen many things on this in th epast but wasn't paying
-> >attention. I have some free time now and want to do some tinkering. Are
-> >there browsers and email agents for the Commodore 64/128 series and DOS
-> >(2.11 through 6.22). I prefer a free or shareware one to be
-> able to test it
-> >to see if it's a POS or not. I want to use the DOS version on a few
-> >platforms from an 8086/8088 to a 386. I have a 286 portable NEC that I'd
-> >like to try it out on first.
->
-> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
-> ><HTML><HEAD>
-> [snip]
->
-> <hrm> Hopefully some programms which won't let you send HTML.
->
-> As for MS-DOS and derivatives (I suppose that's the DOS you'd run), do a
-> search for WATTCP. That's the stack I use on my DOS box (PS/2
-> model 70, to be
-> replaced by a mod. 70 486). There's supposed to be a big WATTCP page in
-> Norway.
-> I seem to forget what the name of that OLR (off-line reader =)
-> for C64/128 is
-> called, but it seemed awfully capable. I also seem to forget
-> whether it is
-> developed by Cameron Kaiser. There are at least two browsers,
-> too. Or three. I
-> think Cameron is developing one, then there's one for SuperCPU
-> users, and one
-> developed by Fairlight. At least one goes by the name Wave.
->
-> --
-> En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
->
-> You can't prove anything about a program written in C or
-> FORTRAN. It's really
-> just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar.
-> Bill Joy
->
->
->
8:24 p.m.
I seem to forget what the name of that OLR (off-line
reader =) for C64/128 is
called, but it seemed awfully capable. I also seem to forget whether it is
developed by Cameron Kaiser. There are at least two browsers, too. Or three. I
think Cameron is developing one, then there's one for SuperCPU users, and one
developed by Fairlight. At least one goes by the name Wave.
The Fairlight one is actually just an offline HTML reader. It does a good
job, though.
HyperLink 2.5 is the one I wrote. It requires a shell dialup with Perl, and
strongly prefers an ACIA cartridge. It speaks a custom protocol to the
server, which acts as a proxy for the C64. The proxy can also translate
gopherspace sites as a general purpose Internet proxy; has support for
images, so you can view .gif, .tif and .jpg files with appropriate server
support; and there is rudimentary support for forms as well. The advantage of
this is that a naked C64 with no upgrades can still run this (albeit slowly),
but the dialup requirement may be too onerous. You can use a null modem
connection to your Unix server, though, if you like. See
http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/hl/
The Wave is a true PPP implementation. Its web browser is simple but does
a nice job on text rendering (it does not yet support images or forms). It
also has Telnet support, and since it is a true TCP/IP implementation other
protocols are possible. The downside is that it has sizeable software and
hardware requirements (a SuperCPU-equipped C64/128 with at least 1MB
SuperRAM and an ACIA cartridge, plus Wheels, a GEOS upgrade). See
http://www.ia4u.net/%7Emaurice/
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last
Unicorn"
8302
days inactive
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days old
25 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
bpope＠wordstock.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
optimus＠canit.se -
rhblakeman＠kih.net -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
tony.eros＠machm.org