18 Sep
2005
18 Sep
'05
3:53 p.m.
I recently sold an item using the "Vintage Computer Marketplace"
[ http://marketplace.vintage.org/ ] I recommended buyers us check, money order
or PayPal. The buyer was familiar with BidPay - and chose to use it
instead...
BidPay rejected the first payment - as it didn't recognize the auction - and
said they to not pay "individual" to "individual" transactions.
Both the buyer and I responded to BidPay that the "Vintage Computer
Marketplace" was a valid auction and payment should be honored.
When the buyer tried again - the payment got rejected a second time.
DON'T USE BIDPAY!!!!
Regards,
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
18 Sep
18 Sep
4:53 p.m.
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Lyle Bickley wrote:
I recently sold an item using the "Vintage
Computer Marketplace"
[ http://marketplace.vintage.org/ ] I recommended buyers us check, money order
or PayPal. The buyer was familiar with BidPay - and chose to use it
instead...
BidPay rejected the first payment - as it didn't recognize the auction - and
said they to not pay "individual" to "individual" transactions.
Both the buyer and I responded to BidPay that the "Vintage Computer
Marketplace" was a valid auction and payment should be honored.
When the buyer tried again - the payment got rejected a second time.
DON'T USE BIDPAY!!!!
BidPay is Western Union's internet payment service. I had a similar
problem a long time ago in a similar situation. BidPay refused to allow
a person-to-person payment. I got a customer service manager on the phone
and ripped him a new asshole. I'll never use BidPay OR Western Union for
that matter for any reason ever!
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
6:36 p.m.
Don't they also charge ridiculously high fee's too...
Curt
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Lyle Bickley wrote:
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 9/16/2005
I recently sold an item using the "Vintage
Computer Marketplace"
[ http://marketplace.vintage.org/ ] I recommended buyers us check, money order
or PayPal. The buyer was familiar with BidPay - and chose to use it
instead...
BidPay rejected the first payment - as it didn't recognize the auction - and
said they to not pay "individual" to "individual" transactions.
Both the buyer and I responded to BidPay that the "Vintage Computer
Marketplace" was a valid auction and payment should be honored.
When the buyer tried again - the payment got rejected a second time.
DON'T USE BIDPAY!!!!
BidPay is Western Union's internet payment service. I had a similar
problem a long time ago in a similar situation. BidPay refused to allow
a person-to-person payment. I got a customer service manager on the phone
and ripped him a new asshole. I'll never use BidPay OR Western Union for
that matter for any reason ever!
8:07 p.m.
At 6:36 PM -0400 9/18/05, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Don't they also charge ridiculously high fee's
too...
It's been a while since I used them, but as I recall they charge the
person sending the money something like $8. Actually from that
standpoint, for sellers, they probably work out better that PayPal,
as PayPal charges the sellers.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:37 p.m.
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
It's been a while since I used them, but as I recall
they charge the
person sending the money something like $8.
Actually from that
standpoint, for sellers, they probably work out
better that PayPal,
as PayPal charges the sellers.
yea I believe thats the way they work, some ebay
sellers love them, their payment requirements are
typically "check, money order, bidpay NO paypal"
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8:49 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <gkicomputers at yahoo.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Don't use "BidPay"!!!!
yea I believe thats the way they work, some ebay
sellers love them, their payment requirements are
typically "check, money order, bidpay NO paypal"
__________________________________________________
To be honest just about every auction I bid on takes Paypal and very few
take Bidpay (something I have never used anyway).
Atleast Paypal has verified addresses so you know you are sending a package
to the persons house that is paying you. The fees are factored into the
starting price or atleast the shipping/handling charges the seller hits you
up for.
8:52 p.m.
To be honest just about every auction I bid on takes
Paypal and very few
take Bidpay (something I have never used anyway).
Atleast Paypal has verified addresses so you know you are sending a package
to the persons house that is paying you
For the record, probably a good quarter of the Paypal orders I get are
UNVERIFIED addresses.
I hate Paypal. And Bidpay for that matter.
Cash - the most sincere form of payment.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
19 Sep
19 Sep
1:20 a.m.
In message <Pine.SUN.4.20.0509182051150.1065-100000 at osfn.org>
William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> wrote:
Cash - the most sincere form of payment.
The only truly irrevocable one too. Well, aside from maybe a bank transfer
(BACS/CHAPS).
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT
philpem at philpem.me.uk | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook
... Taglines that make you go "Hmmm..."
21 Sep
21 Sep
7:18 a.m.
I've never had a problem using PayPal, as a buyer OR as a seller.
Joe
On 9/18/2005 at 8:52 PM William Donzelli wrote:
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
To be honest
just about every auction I bid on takes Paypal and very few
take Bidpay (something I have never used anyway).
Atleast Paypal has verified addresses so you know you are sending a
package
to the persons house that is paying you
For the record, probably a good quarter of the Paypal orders I get are
UNVERIFIED addresses.
I hate Paypal. And Bidpay for that matter.
Cash - the most sincere form of payment.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org 
10:23 a.m.
I used BidPay once for an international order. It was a big pain, IIRC.
I have never sold, so have no personal observation there, but if you Google
about it you find all kinds of horror stories about PayPal locking an
account retroactively and freezing all the funds for 6 months because of a
single buyer complaint. Seemed pretty heavy handed. They deal from a
position of strength. You have to agree to their contract or not use their
service. These might all stem from before they were bought by eBay.
Gil
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe Stevenson
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:19 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re[2]: Don't use "BidPay"!!!!
I've never had a problem using PayPal, as a buyer OR as a seller.
Joe
...
7:31 a.m.
At 09:23 AM 9/21/05 -0500, Gil wrote:
I used BidPay once for an international order. It was a
big pain, IIRC.
I have never sold, so have no personal observation there, but if you Google
about it you find all kinds of horror stories about PayPal
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/anyone_ever_managed_to_claim/>
locking an
account retroactively and freezing all the funds for 6
months because of a
single buyer complaint.
I've got news for you, they will freeze payments even with NO complaints!
A friend of mine's brother sold a laptop on E-bay for $800. He recieved
payment via PP and shipped the laptop. The buyer confirmed that he recieved
it and that he was satisfied with it. Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination. The seller
checked with the buyer and the buyer was still satisfied with the
transaction and said that he hadn't made any complaint to PP. He even wrote
a letter to that affect to both PP and the seller but PP still refuses to
return the sellers money or give any explaination of my they pulled it. The
last time that I talked to my friend it had been going on for 8 months with
no end in sight.
A word to the wise; PP is not a bank and is therefore not regulated.
They can do anything they want and you have NO recourse.
I frequently sell stuff on E-bay and I have a LOT of people that want me
to take PP but I absolutely refuse to!!!! I've used BidPay as a seller and
had no problems with it.
Seemed pretty heavy handed. They deal from a
position of strength. You have to agree to their contract or not use their
service.
These might all stem from before they were bought by
eBay.
Do you REALLY expect them to be any better after the Ebay take over?
E-bay has a long history of high handness and raising rates simply because
they can. Ebay is a PRIVATE company and is answerable to no one so don't
expect fairness from them.
Joe
12:12 p.m.
From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com>
I *do* expect them to be better after the eBay take-over. eBay gets it's
money exclusively from sellers, and is clearly biased toward sellers. I'd
expect that to rub off a bit on their subsidiary, over time.
Of course, to the extent that both are near-monopolies, neither will be
inclined
to do all that well by their customers. (That said, I still think both are
providing excellent value.)
Vince
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone
that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
I have to say that that looks a lot like a shill for www.free-merchant.com.
These might all
stem from before they were bought by eBay.
Do you REALLY expect them to be any better after the Ebay take over?
E-bay has a long history of high handness and raising rates simply because
they can. Ebay is a PRIVATE company and is answerable to no one so don't
expect fairness from them.
12:16 p.m.
--- "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
At 09:23 AM 9/21/05 -0500, Gil wrote:
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone
that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/anyone_ever_managed_to_claim/>
I think if you want to make a rational decision about
using paypal (or any other service or buying any
product) you have to evaluate the ratio of number of
complaints to number of transactions, and ignore the
"squeaky wheel" people who tend to amplify problems,
note also that paypalwarning.com advertises merchant
accounts on their home page
http://www.free-merchant.com/, conflict of interest?,
hmmmm
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
1:05 p.m.
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Joe R. wrote:
At 09:23 AM 9/21/05 -0500, Gil wrote:
This site exists solely to scare people into subscribing to their merchant
services account. It's not a bad deal, but I question the tactics used to
sell their services.
BTW, their "limited time special" keeps getting renewed every day. So
it's not very limited.
I used BidPay once for an international order. It
was a big pain, IIRC.
I have never sold, so have no personal observation there, but if you Google
about it you find all kinds of horror stories about PayPal
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/anyone_ever_managed_to_claim/> I've got news for you, they will freeze payments
even with NO complaints!
A friend of mine's brother sold a laptop on E-bay for $800. He recieved
payment via PP and shipped the laptop. The buyer confirmed that he recieved
it and that he was satisfied with it. Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination. The seller
checked with the buyer and the buyer was still satisfied with the
transaction and said that he hadn't made any complaint to PP. He even wrote
a letter to that affect to both PP and the seller but PP still refuses to
return the sellers money or give any explaination of my they pulled it. The
last time that I talked to my friend it had been going on for 8 months with
no end in sight.
Has he ever heard of the "legal system"?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
7:01 p.m.
Joe, I knew you were going to put in your 2 cents worth
on this subject sooner or later . . . ;-)
Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination.
Solution: don't keep funds in your PayPal account.
As a seller, I do a few dozen PayPal transaction each
month, mostly to buyers outside the USA. In fact, when
I get a large (over $200) order from my web site from
a first-time non-USA buyer who wants to use a credit card,
I will usually insist that they use PayPal instead (since I
have near-zero recourse if the buyer uses a hot credit
card).
At the end of the day, I transfer all of my PayPal
receipts to my bank account, so PayPal can never
"seize" my funds.
I've never had any problems with PayPal, (except that
their site is God-awful slow and their "send invoice"
procedure is clunky and time-consuming) and the
fees they charge are about the same as what I pay
my merchant processing company for charge card
transactions (about 3 percent).
Just *my* two cents worth ;-)
Glen
0/0
Joe R. wrote:
At 09:23 AM 9/21/05 -0500, Gil wrote:
I used BidPay once for an international order. It
was a big pain, IIRC.
I have never sold, so have no personal observation there, but if you Google
about it you find all kinds of horror stories about PayPal
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/anyone_ever_managed_to_claim/>
locking an
account retroactively and freezing all the funds
for 6 months because of a
single buyer complaint.
I've got news for you, they will freeze payments even with NO complaints!
A friend of mine's brother sold a laptop on E-bay for $800. He recieved
payment via PP and shipped the laptop. The buyer confirmed that he recieved
it and that he was satisfied with it. Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination. The seller
checked with the buyer and the buyer was still satisfied with the
transaction and said that he hadn't made any complaint to PP. He even wrote
a letter to that affect to both PP and the seller but PP still refuses to
return the sellers money or give any explaination of my they pulled it. The
last time that I talked to my friend it had been going on for 8 months with
no end in sight.
A word to the wise; PP is not a bank and is therefore not regulated.
They can do anything they want and you have NO recourse.
I frequently sell stuff on E-bay and I have a LOT of people that want me
to take PP but I absolutely refuse to!!!! I've used BidPay as a seller and
had no problems with it.
Seemed pretty heavy handed. They deal from a
position of strength. You have to agree to their contract or not use their
service.
These might all stem from before they were bought
by eBay.
Do you REALLY expect them to be any better after the Ebay take over?
E-bay has a long history of high handness and raising rates simply because
they can. Ebay is a PRIVATE company and is answerable to no one so don't
expect fairness from them.
Joe
22 Sep
22 Sep
5:42 a.m.
At 07:01 PM 9/21/05 -0400, Glen wrote:
First, having to transfer funds out of your account every night is a
PITA! Especially for someone that only uses PP occasionally. Second, how do
you stop them from taking the funds out of a future payment? What are you
going do if they do take the funds from a future payment, refuse to ship
the merchandise to that buyer? For me it's a lot easier to refuse to take
PP and insist on a money order, check or cash.
Joe
Joe, I knew you were going to put in your 2 cents
worth
on this subject sooner or later . . . ;-)
Yeah, you know what I think of PP!
Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination.
Solution: don't keep funds in your PayPal account.
As a seller, I do a few dozen PayPal transaction each
month, mostly to buyers outside the USA. In fact, when
I get a large (over $200) order from my web site from
a first-time non-USA buyer who wants to use a credit card,
I will usually insist that they use PayPal instead (since I
have near-zero recourse if the buyer uses a hot credit
card).
At the end of the day, I transfer all of my PayPal
receipts to my bank account, so PayPal can never
"seize" my funds.
I've never had any problems with PayPal, (except that
their site is God-awful slow and their "send invoice"
procedure is clunky and time-consuming) and the
fees they charge are about the same as what I pay
my merchant processing company for charge card
transactions (about 3 percent).
Just *my* two cents worth ;-)
Glen
0/0
Joe R. wrote:
At 09:23 AM 9/21/05 -0500, Gil wrote:
I used BidPay once for an international order. It
was a big pain, IIRC.
I have never sold, so have no personal observation there, but if you Google
about it you find all kinds of horror stories about PayPal
Here are a couple. I strongly suggest that anyone that buys or sells
over the net read them.
<http://www.paypalwarning.com/>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/anyone_ever_managed_to_claim/>
locking an
account retroactively and freezing all the funds
for 6 months because of a
single buyer complaint.
I've got news for you, they will freeze payments even with NO complaints!
A friend of mine's brother sold a laptop on E-bay for $800. He recieved
payment via PP and shipped the laptop. The buyer confirmed that he recieved
it and that he was satisfied with it. Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination. The seller
checked with the buyer and the buyer was still satisfied with the
transaction and said that he hadn't made any complaint to PP. He even wrote
a letter to that affect to both PP and the seller but PP still refuses to
return the sellers money or give any explaination of my they pulled it. The
last time that I talked to my friend it had been going on for 8 months with
no end in sight.
A word to the wise; PP is not a bank and is therefore not regulated.
They can do anything they want and you have NO recourse.
I frequently sell stuff on E-bay and I have a LOT of people that want me
to take PP but I absolutely refuse to!!!! I've used BidPay as a seller and
had no problems with it.
Seemed pretty heavy handed. They deal from a
position of strength. You have to agree to their contract or not use their
service.
These might all stem from before they were bought
by eBay.
Do you REALLY expect them to be any better after the Ebay take over?
E-bay has a long history of high handness and raising rates simply because
they can. Ebay is a PRIVATE company and is answerable to no one so don't
expect fairness from them.
Joe
3:49 p.m.
Joe R. wrote:
First, having to transfer funds out of your account
every night is a
PITA! Especially for someone that only uses PP occasionally.
Well, as far as the occasional user is concerned, you're
right. I just include it as part of my end-of-day stuff,
like logging the day's take, etc., so it's no hassle for
me.
Second, how do you stop them from taking the funds
out
of a future payment?
I expect -- though I may be wrong in this assumption --
that PayPal would contact me first regarding any "adjustments"
they wanted to make to my account, which would allow me
a little time to make a move to another service.
JMHO
Glen
0/0
5:32 p.m.
--- Glen Goodwin <acme_ent at bellsouth.net> wrote:
I expect -- though I may be wrong in this assumption
--
that PayPal would contact me first regarding any
"adjustments"
they wanted to make to my account, which would allow
me
a little time to make a move to another service.
think of it in the buyers perspective, how could
paypal provide any protection to its buyers if it told
a fraudulent seller in 12 hours we are going to
transfer money back to the buyer, wouldn't work,
doesn't make any sense
Fraudulent sellers tend to only accept cleared
personal checks, money orders, wired transfers for
this reason
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
8:04 p.m.
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:42:43
"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
At 07:01 PM 9/21/05 -0400, Glen wrote:
You can get a 'PayPal Visa Debit' card and yank the money right out at
an ATM. ATM fees and what-not apply of course. 'Tether' the PayPal
account to yourself only with a 'throwaway' checking account that you
keep a low balance in, to be certain.
My direct experience with PayPal has been (I no longer do any selling,
but was selling a LOT on eBay up to about a year ago) with my PayPal
Debit card, auction buyers would pay the price and shipping amount, and
I could use the PayPal debit card to pay the shipping, then pull the
cash out by the ATM method (or buy gas for the car with it).
But a lot of other people have 'bad stories' that they hear, have
experienced, etc. with PayPal. I just haven't suffered personally.
Joe, I knew you were going to put in your 2 cents
worth
on this subject sooner or later . . . ;-)
Yeah, you know what I think of PP!
> Months later E-bay pulled $800 from
> the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination.
Solution: don't keep funds in your PayPal
account.
As a seller, I do a few dozen PayPal transaction
each
month, mostly to buyers outside the USA. In fact, when
I get a large (over $200) order from my web site from
a first-time non-USA buyer who wants to use a credit card,
I will usually insist that they use PayPal instead (since I
have near-zero recourse if the buyer uses a hot credit
card).
At the end of the day, I transfer all of my
PayPal
receipts to my bank account, so PayPal can never
"seize" my funds.
First, having to transfer funds out of your account every night is a
PITA! Especially for someone that only uses PP occasionally. Second,
how do you stop them from taking the funds out of a future payment?
What are you going do if they do take the funds from a future payment,
refuse to ship the merchandise to that buyer? For me it's a lot easier
to refuse to take PP and insist on a money order, check or cash.
Joe
27 Sep
27 Sep
3:18 p.m.
Glen Goodwin wrote:
This doesn't work -- A seller friend of mine had his bank account go from $0 to
$80 overdrawn (ie. -$80) thanks to Paypal. Bank fees mounted daily and he just
had to sit there and eat it.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
Months later
E-bay pulled $800 from
the seller's account for the transaction with no explaination.
Solution: don't keep funds in your PayPal account.
29 Sep
29 Sep
3:48 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
Glen Goodwin wrote:
Hmm. My banker has told me otherwise. I hope I never
have to find out.
Glen
0/0
Solution: don't keep funds in your PayPal
account.
This doesn't work -- A seller friend of mine had his bank account go
from $0 to $80 overdrawn (ie. -$80) thanks to Paypal. Bank fees mounted
daily and he just had to sit there and eat it. 
22 Sep
22 Sep
5:43 a.m.
New subject: Regulation of online money (was Re: Don't use "BidPay"!!!!)
Hi All --
Joe wrote:
A word to the wise; PP is not a bank and is
therefore not regulated.
They can do anything they want and you have NO recourse.
I believe that European money institutions are required to
be regulated, by the FSA -- same body as regulates banks,
insurance companies etc.
Quotes from their web sites:
PayPal (Europe) Ltd. is authorised and regulated by the Financial
Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an electronic money
institution. PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056.
NOCHEX Ltd is certified as a Small Electronic Money Issuer by
the Financial Services Authority and as a Money Service Business
by HM Customs & Excise.
Just an observation. Couldn't find anything similar on paypal.com
nor bidpay.com.
Personally I've only used PayPal which has been very good and indeed
helped resolve a dispute where seller took the money but I
hadn't received the goods.
Regards from London.
Jonathan.
21 Sep
21 Sep
10:36 a.m.
Gil Carrick wrote:
I used BidPay once for an international order. It was
a big pain, IIRC.
[snip]
position of strength. You have to agree to their
contract or not use their
service. These might all stem from before they were bought by eBay.
Gil
I think that you'll find your last to be correct. The noise has dropped
considerably since eBay bought the company.
BK
6867
days inactive
6878
days old
23 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
acme_ent＠bellsouth.net -
aw288＠osfn.org -
blkline＠attglobal.net -
chenmel＠earthlink.net -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
gilcarrick＠comcast.net -
gkicomputers＠yahoo.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
ikvsabre＠comcast.net -
jonathan.laventhol＠imagination.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
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