18 May
2011
18 May
'11
4:23 a.m.
Guys,
I used a Cambridge Z88 for Retrochallenge last year (see
http://www.retrochallenge.org for last competition) whilst on holiday.
The summer challenge runs in the month of July - entries will be welcome
anytime by email to me mark at wickensonline dot co dot uk.
This year I'd like to use a different, portable computing device to
document this year's summer challenge, and possibly include a little
programming.
My criteria are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88.
* daylight readable screen.
* operates on batteries.
* preferably with some kind of programming language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could take
this year that would be fun to explore but also practical enough to use
day to day to write text for the website. I will take a laptop for
uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC connectivity is a must
(although this could be as simple as an RS232 cable).
Many thanks, Mark
18 May
18 May
5:45 a.m.
--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
My criteria are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88.
* daylight readable screen.
* operates on batteries.
* preferably with some kind of programming
language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what
I could take this year that would be fun to explore but also
practical enough to use day to day to write text for the
website. I will take a laptop for uploading text via wifi,
so some sort of PC connectivity is a must (although this
could be as simple as an RS232 cable).
I don't know how common they are over there, but the Tandy model 100 and 200 computers
would fit the bill. They're small, and run on AA batteries. The LCD's are pretty
decent (compared to others of the era), and they have built in BASIC as well as a simple
word processor and termianl program. They have RS232. They also have a nice well made
keyboard. The two machines are pretty much the same - but the 200 has a bigger screen and
looks more like a laptop, the 100 doesn't have a hinged lid, since the screen is
smaller and fits above the keyboard.
-Ian
6:06 a.m.
On 5/18/11 8:45 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
There's also the NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300. These were all built by
Kyocera. Olivetti also sold at least one machine built on that design,
but I don't know the model number(s).
These are all larger than a Z88, though. I think the "no larger than
a Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is
pretty tiny.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
My criteria
are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88. * daylight readable screen. *
operates on batteries. * preferably with some kind of programming
language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could
take this year that would be fun to explore but also practical
enough to use day to day to write text for the website. I will take
a laptop for uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC
connectivity is a must (although this could be as simple as an
RS232 cable).
I don't know how common they are over there, but the Tandy model 100
and 200 computers would fit the bill. They're small, and run on AA
batteries. The LCD's are pretty decent (compared to others of the
era), and they have built in BASIC as well as a simple word processor
and termianl program. They have RS232. They also have a nice well
made keyboard. The two machines are pretty much the same - but the
200 has a bigger screen and looks more like a laptop, the 100 doesn't
have a hinged lid, since the screen is smaller and fits above the
keyboard. 
8:28 a.m.
On 18 May 2011 14:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 5/18/11 8:45 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
?There's also the NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300. ?These were all built by Kyocera.
?Olivetti also sold at least one machine built on that design, but I don't
know the model number(s).
?These are all larger than a Z88, though. ?I think the "no larger than a
Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. ?The Z88 is pretty
tiny.
I suppose it depends where you're standing, as it were, but to me, the
Z88 is a pretty huge portable device. It's bigger than some modern
notebook computers. There are a whole host of smaller portable
battery-powered devices, but not many bigger - various PC notebooks &
a handful of non-PC notebooks (various Apple Mac notebooks, the Acorn
A4, the Tadpole SPARC laptops and not much else). There were various
luggables but they were all mains-powered.
Of the same form factor as the Z88 - the Epson HX-20, the Tandy Model
100 and its relatives, the Amstrad NC100/150/200, and the Alphasmart
Dayna.
Smaller - sheesh, how long have you got?
Old school: Newbrain.
Psion: Organizer & Organizer II; Series 3/3a/3c/3mx (& clones); Series
5/5mx (& clones); Revo, Siena (& clones); MC series. All programmable
in OPL, of course.
Various Merkin poor copies of Psions ;?) ... HP 95LX, OmniGo models,
Jornada 710/720/730; Poqet; Atari Portfolio.
Sharp made various pocket-sized BASIC-programmable devices of which I
know little, such as the PC-1500, and various companies did similar.
This list recently discussed a remarkable Russian one which is a
PDP-11 compatible.
I could go on, but this would become an essay, which although fun
won't pay the bills.
There are *dozens*, quite probably *hundreds*, of battery-powered
programmable portable computers smaller than the Z88!
The only way I can interpret your "I think the "no larger than a Z88"
requirement will make this pretty much impossible" statement is if you
are thinking of something entirely different when you read "Z88".
This is a Z88:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
You can't be thinking of a ZX81 - that is bigger than lots of
pocketable computers - most Psions, the Sharp devices, all the HP LX
and Omnigos and so on.
Perhaps a Z80? A bare chip? But even so, there are surely lots of
smaller CPUs, surely...
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
My criteria are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88. * daylight readable screen. *
operates on batteries. * preferably with some kind of programming
language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could
take this year that would be fun to explore but also practical
enough to use day to day to write text for the website. I will take
a laptop for uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC
connectivity is a must (although this could be as simple as an
RS232 cable).
I don't know how common they are over there, but the Tandy model 100
and 200 computers would fit the bill. They're small, and run on AA
batteries. The LCD's are pretty decent (compared to others of the
era), and they have built in BASIC as well as a simple word processor
and termianl program. They have RS232. They also have a nice well
made keyboard. The two machines are pretty much the same - but the
200 has a bigger screen and looks more like a laptop, the 100 doesn't
have a hinged lid, since the screen is smaller and fits above the
keyboard.
8:39 a.m.
On 18/05/11 16:28, Liam Proven wrote:
On 18 May 2011 14:06, Dave McGuire<mcguire at
neurotica.com> wrote:
Daylight readable display rules out a lot of devices - my IBM Thinkpad
X60 for example is completely useless in anything approaching normal
daylight (I hasten to add it is one with a non-daylight readable
display). This also rules out any other laptop/sub-notebook that uses as
standard TFT display.
A decent keyboard would be good also, which might rule out some of the
smaller devices. I've owned Psion 3s and 5s and wouldn't want to
consider anything less usable.
Thanks for the suggestions so far - I guess I'm maybe looking for those
who have used devices in a similar situation to provide guidance.
Certainly the Tandy 100 series would appear to be an ideal candidate.
Regards, Mark.
On 5/18/11 8:45 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
There's also the NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300. These were all built by
Kyocera.
Olivetti also sold at least one machine built on that design, but I don't
know the model number(s).
These are all larger than a Z88, though. I think the "no larger than a
Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is pretty
tiny.
I suppose it depends where you're standing, as it were, but to me, the
Z88 is a pretty huge portable device. It's bigger than some modern
notebook computers. There are a whole host of smaller portable
battery-powered devices, but not many bigger - various PC notebooks&
a handful of non-PC notebooks (various Apple Mac notebooks, the Acorn
A4, the Tadpole SPARC laptops and not much else). There were various
luggables but they were all mains-powered.
Of the same form factor as the Z88 - the Epson HX-20, the Tandy Model
100 and its relatives, the Amstrad NC100/150/200, and the Alphasmart
Dayna.
Smaller - sheesh, how long have you got?
Old school: Newbrain.
Psion: Organizer& Organizer II; Series 3/3a/3c/3mx (& clones); Series
5/5mx (& clones); Revo, Siena (& clones); MC series. All programmable
in OPL, of course.
Various Merkin poor copies of Psions ;?) ... HP 95LX, OmniGo models,
Jornada 710/720/730; Poqet; Atari Portfolio.
Sharp made various pocket-sized BASIC-programmable devices of which I
know little, such as the PC-1500, and various companies did similar.
This list recently discussed a remarkable Russian one which is a
PDP-11 compatible.
I could go on, but this would become an essay, which although fun
won't pay the bills.
There are *dozens*, quite probably *hundreds*, of battery-powered
programmable portable computers smaller than the Z88!
The only way I can interpret your "I think the "no larger than a Z88"
requirement will make this pretty much impossible" statement is if you
are thinking of something entirely different when you read "Z88".
This is a Z88:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
You can't be thinking of a ZX81 - that is bigger than lots of
pocketable computers - most Psions, the Sharp devices, all the HP LX
and Omnigos and so on.
Perhaps a Z80? A bare chip? But even so, there are surely lots of
smaller CPUs, surely...
My
criteria are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88. * daylight readable screen. *
operates on batteries. * preferably with some kind of programming
language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could
take this year that would be fun to explore but also practical
enough to use day to day to write text for the website. I will take
a laptop for uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC
connectivity is a must (although this could be as simple as an
RS232 cable).
I don't know how common they are over there, but the Tandy model
100
and 200 computers would fit the bill. They're small, and run on AA
batteries. The LCD's are pretty decent (compared to others of the
era), and they have built in BASIC as well as a simple word processor
and termianl program. They have RS232. They also have a nice well
made keyboard. The two machines are pretty much the same - but the
200 has a bigger screen and looks more like a laptop, the 100 doesn't
have a hinged lid, since the screen is smaller and fits above the
keyboard.
9:23 a.m.
On 5/18/11 11:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions so far - I guess I'm
maybe looking for those
who have used devices in a similar situation to provide guidance.
Certainly the Tandy 100 series would appear to be an ideal candidate.
It's larger than a Z88.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
19 May
19 May
1:57 a.m.
On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 12:23 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 5/18/11 11:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Understood. Actually, what I'm looking for is something of a comparable
size to the Z88 (in which I'd include the Tandy 100s) and a flat and not
clamshell design. I found when using the Z88 that I could carry on
working without putting a 'barrier' up between myself and others, which
is what a laptop effectively does. So be it on a table or lying by the
pool (which I intend to do a lot of!) the fact that I'm using a
computing device is pretty much disguised.
I'll reiterate that having a screen viewable in bright daylight
conditions is an absolute must. That seems to narrow down the selection
quite extensively...
Thanks for all the other suggestions.
Regards, Mark.
Thanks for the suggestions so far - I guess
I'm maybe looking for those
who have used devices in a similar situation to provide guidance.
Certainly the Tandy 100 series would appear to be an ideal candidate.
It's larger than a Z88.
-Dave
3:55 a.m.
On 19 May 2011 09:57, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 12:23 -0400, Dave McGuire
wrote:
In that case, look at an Amstrad NC100, 150 or 200.
After yesterday's post, I went searching eBay. No 200s, one 150, but
/loads/ of 100s and they typically sell for under a tenner!
Has Protext and BBC BASIC in ROM. I'm wondering if there's any way to
get modern Flash media working in one...
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
On 5/18/11 11:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Understood. Actually, what I'm looking for is something of a comparable
size to the Z88 (in which I'd include the Tandy 100s) and a flat and not
clamshell design. I found when using the Z88 that I could carry on
working without putting a 'barrier' up between myself and others, which
is what a laptop effectively does. So be it on a table or lying by the
pool (which I intend to do a lot of!) the fact that I'm using a
computing device is pretty much disguised.
I'll reiterate that having a screen viewable in bright daylight
conditions is an absolute must. That seems to narrow down the selection
quite extensively...
Thanks for all the other suggestions. Thanks for the suggestions so far - I guess
I'm maybe looking for those
who have used devices in a similar situation to provide guidance.
Certainly the Tandy 100 series would appear to be an ideal candidate.
? ?It's larger than a Z88.
? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
7 a.m.
On 5/19/11 4:57 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Understood. Actually, what I'm looking for is
something of a comparable
size to the Z88 (in which I'd include the Tandy 100s) and a flat and not
clamshell design.
Gotcha. If you're willing to go *slightly* larger than a Z88 (the
'8201, etc, are considerably thicker) then that opens up quite a few
interesting possibilities.
I found when using the Z88 that I could carry on
working without putting a 'barrier' up between myself and others, which
is what a laptop effectively does. So be it on a table or lying by the
pool (which I intend to do a lot of!) the fact that I'm using a
computing device is pretty much disguised.
So, you don't think looking down at a display and typing on a
keyboard is going to give it away, huh? ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2:13 p.m.
Understood. Actually, what I'm looking for is
something of a comparable
size to the Z88 (in which I'd include the Tandy 100s) and a flat and not
clamshell design. I found when using the Z88 that I could carry on
I susemct that rules out Alison's suggestion of the Epson PX8. It has a
flip-up display which ahs to be flipepd up to use it (it closes
screen-side down). I think it cab be folted reight back, though, but you
may thin that's still a 'clamshell'
What about a PX4 though? It's only a 40 column display, but it closes
screen-side up (and the machien can be used with it closed). It runs
CP/M like the PX8. No idea where you'd find one.
-tony
working without putting a 'barrier' up between
myself and others, which
is what a laptop effectively does. So be it on a table or lying by the
Odd... If I saw somebody using a truely vintage laptop, I'd want to talk
to them (if only to suggest other machiens :-)).
pool (which I intend to do a lot of!) the fact that
I'm using a
computing device is pretty much disguised.
I'll reiterate that having a screen viewable in bright daylight
conditions is an absolute must. That seems to narrow down the selection
quite extensively...
Are there any non-backlit LCDs that don't meet that requirement?
-tony
4:05 p.m.
On 19/05/11 22:13, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, the PX8 isn't really quite the physical barrier that a standard
laptop would provide, and I certainly would welcome what I hear is an
excellent keyboard.
Strange you should say that, as I had a couple of lads last year
approach me to ask what the computer I was using was. My French not
being that great the conversation was probably a bit shorter than
required to fully explain what I was up to, but certainly there was some
curiosity from folks carrying standard computing fair as to how I was
managing to 'get on with it' in bright daylight. Has to be said,
however, that in direct sunlight even the straight LCD of the Z88 was
struggling when getting warm. The display went decidedly black and
smudgy when the machine got too warm.
If you were to remove the non-clamshell requirement then something like
a Panasonic Toughbook of good vintage would fulfill the requirements.
As a few people have pointed out to date, the Z88 will take some beating
in reality! Kudos to Sir Sinclair...
Mark.
Understood.
Actually, what I'm looking for is something of a comparable
size to the Z88 (in which I'd include the Tandy 100s) and a flat and not
clamshell design. I found when using the Z88 that I could carry on
I susemct that
rules out Alison's suggestion of the Epson PX8. It has a
flip-up display which ahs to be flipepd up to use it (it closes
screen-side down). I think it cab be folted reight back, though, but you
may thin that's still a 'clamshell'
What about a PX4 though? It's only a 40 column
display, but it closes
screen-side up (and the machien can be used with it closed). It runs
CP/M like the PX8. No idea where you'd find one.
-tony
Also have been suggested from other avenues that a PX-4 would be a good
compromise. You are right however, without some patience I might be out
of luck picking one up on ebay (or other channels) at short notice.
working
without putting a 'barrier' up between myself and others, which
is what a laptop effectively does. So be it on a table or lying by the
Odd... If I
saw somebody using a truely vintage laptop, I'd want to talk
to them (if only to suggest other machiens :-)).
pool (which I
intend to do a lot of!) the fact that I'm using a
computing device is pretty much disguised.
I'll reiterate that having a screen viewable in bright daylight
conditions is an absolute must. That seems to narrow down the selection
quite extensively...
Are there any non-backlit LCDs that don't meet that
requirement?
20 May
20 May
1:07 p.m.
I susemct that
rules out Alison's suggestion of the Epson PX8. It has a
flip-up display which ahs to be flipepd up to use it (it closes
screen-side down). I think it cab be folted reight back, though, but you
may thin that's still a 'clamshell'
Well, the PX8 isn't really quite the physical barrier that a standard
laptop would provide, and I certainly would welcome what I hear is an
excellent keyboard. however, that in direct sunlight even the straight LCD
of the Z88 was
struggling when getting warm. The display went decidedly black and
smudgy when the machine got too warm.
FWIW, I think my brain would have shut down long before that...
As a few people have pointed out to date, the Z88 will
take some beating
in reality! Kudos to Sir Sinclair...
I had an M100 long before the Z88 came out, and love(d) it. When I got to
use a Z88, I pretty much hated it. I found the M100 had a better
keyboard, clearer dispaly and was much better documetned (the lack of
custom ICs was a bonus too :-)).
I guess it comes down to what you are used to :-)
-tony
18 May
18 May
9:26 a.m.
On 5/18/11 11:28 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
NETbooks, yes, but notebooks? No. Jus about the only non-netbook
laptop I've seen that's smaller than a Z88 is the Macbook Air. I think
you may be misremembering the size (or lack thereof) of the Z88. It's
extremely thin. (for the era) It's probably 1/2 to 2/3 the thickness of
a TRS-80 Model 100 or NEC PC-8201.
These are
all larger than a Z88, though. I think the "no larger than a
Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is pretty
tiny.
I suppose it depends where you're standing, as it were, but to me, the
Z88 is a pretty huge portable device. It's bigger than some modern
notebook computers. There are a whole host of smaller portable
battery-powered devices,
Sure, the Tandy PC-1 and PC-2 come to mind. Would you recommend
those for writing articles? One-line displays, calculator
keyboards...if you're going to do that, might I suggest an HP-41C?
but not many bigger - various PC notebooks&
a handful of non-PC notebooks (various Apple Mac notebooks, the Acorn
A4, the Tadpole SPARC laptops and not much else). There were various
luggables but they were all mains-powered.
...all of which are far larger than the Z88.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
11:02 a.m.
Sure, the Tandy PC-1 and PC-2 come to mind. Would you
recommend
those for writing articles? One-line displays, calculator
keyboards...if you're going to do that, might I suggest an HP-41C?
At least let me have an HP41CX, please. it has a built-in text editor
and extended memory to store said text.
-tony
2:07 p.m.
When will my OQOs become "vintage"?
Howzbout:
HP95LX
The tablet that Fujitsu came out with when they bought out Poqet
Antikythera!!
iPaq pocket computers with Windoze CE (Palm Pilot competitor)
You could probably install Windoze 3.00 on a Poqet! 8086??, CGA video
"Vintage", "portable", and "computer" always need to be
defined each and
every time they are used. "Smaller than Z88" is a pretty restrictive
definion for portable! All of the luggables (5100, etc.), and even the
Macintosh were called "portable" when they came out.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:37 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 2:07 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Vintage Portable Computing Suggestions?
When will my OQOs become "vintage"?
Howzbout:
HP95LX
The tablet that Fujitsu came out with when they bought out Poqet
Antikythera!!
iPaq pocket computers with Windoze CE (Palm Pilot competitor)
You could probably install Windoze 3.00 on a Poqet! 8086??, CGA video
"Vintage", "portable", and "computer" always need to be
defined each
and
every time they are used. "Smaller than Z88" is a pretty restrictive
definion for portable! All of the luggables (5100, etc.), and even the
Macintosh were called "portable" when they came out.
My SparcStation Voyager is 'portable' - comes in its own nylon suitcase! -- Ian
10:11 a.m.
HP-41C with HP-IL link? :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
12:56 p.m.
Atari Portfolio - 3rd party MS-DOS imitation (including most of the MS-DOS
undocumented functions!) DeSmet C compiler (now "Personal C") fits on a
memory card.
Poqet - MS-DOS 5 in ROM 2 pre-PCMCIA PCMCIA card slots
("People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms")
Palm Pilots There is a C compiler that will run on it, but normally
development is done on desktop machines with packages such as
Code-Warrior.
Fossil Abacus Palm OS wristwatch
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:11 p.m.
Palm Pilots There is a C compiler that will run on
it, but normally
development is done on desktop machines with packages such as
Code-Warrior.
Plua is a delightful (alas no longer developed) way to write self-hosted
apps on PalmOS. They are highly functional and they are Lualicious.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "The Internet is, once again, your friend" (I wrote this *before* PacBell!)
1:27 p.m.
On 18 May 2011 at 13:11, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Plua is a delightful (alas no longer developed) way to
write
self-hosted apps on PalmOS. They are highly functional and they are
Lualicious.
I've seen at least one NEC PC9801 (x86) emulation done on an iPod
Touch. I suspect that other emulators exist as well. And then
there's the GameBoy...
--Chuck
2:11 p.m.
Fred wrote:
Palm Pilots There is a C compiler that will run on
it, but normally
development is done on desktop machines with packages such as
Code-Warrior.
There are at least 2 Palm-hosted Forth systems and a common LISP. There is
a JVM and development system and I believe even an assembler. I can't
remember if the assembler is self-hosted but I think it is.
There is also a telnet client. The letter recognition system Palms have for
the stylus they come with is amazing but it is tiring to use for more than a
few sentences. You can also use the virtual keyboard or even an addon
physical keyboard on some models but with the tiny screen you really have
to like punishing yourself for no reason except to say you did.
Any "normal" portable is going to be much more practical and much less
painful than a Palm, even though Palms are fun and can do an amazing amount
of stuff. And Palm OS is really well written and implemented, the SDK
should have been a model for other systems. As usual the good stuff goes
the way of the dinosaur and the inferior stuff with better marketing and
GUI lives on.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Vintage Coder America Online ivagntrpbqre at nby.pbz <ROT13> |
| |
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| Software & doc for IBM S/360 through OS/390 |
| |
| Can't find: Ada 95 compilers for MVS/ESA & Solaris (Sparc) |
| PL/I X Optimizing Compiler for MVS, APL/SV for MVS |
|---------------------------------------+--------------------------------|
| Powered by Slackware 64 & Solaris 10 | Powered by Hercules |
|=======================================+================================|
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| PGP Fingerprint 5C1C 3AEB A7B2 E6F7 34A0 2870 1CB8 4BEF C73A CB32 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
3:07 p.m.
In article <201105182111.p4ILBWvg008921 at imr-da06.mx.aol.com>,
vintagecoder at aol.com writes:
There are at least 2 Palm-hosted Forth systems and a
common LISP.
I've got an original Palm Pilot that would be fun to hack and as a
result of this discussion I looked for a FORTH environment but
couldn't find one. Do you have a URL?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
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3:13 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:08 PM
To: cctalk
Subject: Re: Vintage Portable Computing Suggestions?
In article <201105182111.p4ILBWvg008921 at imr-da06.mx.aol.com>,
vintagecoder at aol.com writes:
And for the LISP! I have one that was upgraded to a screamin' 2MB. -- Ian
There are at least 2 Palm-hosted Forth systems
and a common LISP.
I've got an original Palm Pilot that would be fun to hack and as a
result of this discussion I looked for a FORTH environment but
couldn't find one. Do you have a URL?
3:29 p.m.
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD03E0F758D1 at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
Found a free scheme: <http://www.lispme.de/lispme/index_en.html>
Found a commercial FORTH from Quartus. Any free/OSS ones out there?
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In article
<201105182111.p4ILBWvg008921 at imr-da06.mx.aol.com>,
vintagecoder at aol.com writes:
And for the LISP! I have one that was upgraded to a screamin' 2MB. -- Ian There are at least 2 Palm-hosted Forth systems
and a common LISP.
I've got an original Palm Pilot that would be fun to hack and as a
result of this discussion I looked for a FORTH environment but
couldn't find one. Do you have a URL?
5:28 p.m.
Richard wrote:
In article
<FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD03E0F758D1 at 505fuji>, Ian King
<IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
In article
<201105182111.p4ILBWvg008921 at imr-da06.mx.aol.com>,
vintagecoder at aol.com writes:
And for the LISP! I have one that was upgraded to a screamin' 2MB. --
Ian There are at least 2 Palm-hosted Forth systems
and a common LISP.
I've got an original Palm Pilot that would be fun to hack and as a
result of this discussion I looked for a FORTH environment but
couldn't find one. Do you have a URL? >>Found a free scheme:
<http://www.lispme.de/lispme/index_en.html>
That's the one! Sorry, I remembered it wrong, I was thinking it was CLISP.
I have it installed but haven't used it much. If you install it be sure and
run the geometric shapes demo. It's incredible what a Scheme interpreter
running on an old Dragonball can do.
>>Found a commercial FORTH from Quartus. Any
free/OSS ones out there?
Looks from your next email you found them all. I believe there is a trial
of Quartus, I don't know in what way it's limited. Kind of pricey at almost
a hundred bucks last time I looked, especially since you can now buy prime
NOS Palms for 40 bucks. The doc is free, online, and good though.
There used to be a very active development community and tons and tons of
great code for Palms, most of it free.
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3:36 p.m.
Found a GPL FORTH for Palm Pilot:
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/dragonforth/>
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8:34 a.m.
NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300. These were all built by
Kyocera. Olivetti
also sold at least one machine built on that design, but I don't know
the model number(s).
TRS-80 Model 100 / PC-8201 / M-10 are all the same machine underneath.
Rarest of that series is Kyocera's Kyotronic KC-85.
These are all larger than a Z88, though. I think the
"no larger than
a Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is
pretty tiny.
Right.
12:58 p.m.
On Wed, 18 May 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:
TRS-80 Model 100 / PC-8201 / M-10 are all the same
machine underneath.
Rarest of that series is Kyocera's Kyotronic KC-85.
Some of the minor differences do matter, such as connection to the
Model 100 DVI, NEC memory cartridges, different battery packs, etc.
Rick Hanson used to be the one to go to for details.
1:13 p.m.
TRS-80 Model
100 / PC-8201 / M-10 are all the same machine underneath.
Rarest of that series is Kyocera's Kyotronic KC-85.
Some of the minor differences do matter, such as connection to the
Model 100 DVI, NEC memory cartridges, different battery packs, etc.
10:56 a.m.
> I don't know how common they are over there,
but the Tandy model 100
> and 200 computers would fit the bill. They're small, and run on AA
They are fairly ocmmon in the UK. They were offically osld over here
(ahtough the M100 was somewhat different to the US on in tha the internal
modem was rmeoved, and the main PCB is thus rather different).
batteries. The
LCD's are pretty decent (compared to others of the
era), and they have built in BASIC as well as a simple word processor
and termianl program. They have RS232. They also have a nice well
made keyboard. The two machines are pretty much the same - but the
200 has a bigger screen and looks more like a laptop, the 100 doesn't
have a hinged lid, since the screen is smaller and fits above the
keyboard.
There's also the NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300. These were all built by
Kyocera. Olivetti also sold at least one machine built on that design,
but I don't know the model number(s).
These are all larger than a Z88, though. I think the "no larger than
a Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is
pretty tiny.
It rules out a couplke of machines I would have used, namely the HP110
and Portable+/ The latter can have a 'ROM Drawer' fitted which acts like
a read-only disk drive, so you can have an editor an a (small)
programming language in there. I think the Hp110 has some kind of editor
and BASIC in ROM.
Ther;es also the HP75C (or D) and HP71B machines. They are much smaller
than a Z88,. The former has the better keybaord for typing on, but the
latter is much the nicer machine to use, particualrlyt if you add a Forth
ROM (BASIC Is stnadard). They only have 1-line LCDs though. They do run
on batteries (a special NiC pack fo the HP75, 4 AAA cells for the HP71).
The onyl porobkem is the PC connetivity. The HP75 has HPIL as standard,
it's an option module for the HP71. And there is an HPIL to RS232
interface. Problem is, that unit -- at least the HP one (HP82164) will
not run on battieres. It runs off an 8V AC adapter, and it has to be AC
becuase there's a step-up transformer inside the interface to get the
RS232 votlages which runs directly off the AC input. Yes, I do have the
service manual...
Very small, but useable (readable LCD, tiny,m but usable keyboard, runs
off a couple of AA cells anf has an RS232 port) are the older HP
palmtops, HP95LX, HP100LX, HP200LX. They have an editor, terminmal
emulator (with kermit and Xmodem) etc in ROM. But no programming language
(unless you vcould Lotus 1-2-3 macros :-)). But I am pretty sure there
are versions of BASIC or Forth that you could load onto said machines.
-tony
12:44 p.m.
On Wed, 18 May 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
There's also the NEC PC-8201 and PC-8300.
These were all built by
Kyocera. Olivetti also sold at least one machine built on that design,
but I don't know the model number(s).
The Epson HC20/HX20 (the HC was a different color, and also had katakana
on the keyboard and in the character generator ROMs) was a 6803?, smaller
screen, microcassette "drive", etc.
Not as well suited for general purpose use as the Kyocera machines, but
with the addition of a cash drawer made a helluva cash register.
These are all larger than a Z88, though. I think
the "no larger than
a Z88" requirement will make this pretty much impossible. The Z88 is
pretty tiny.
The smallest machine of THAT vintage was the Epson RC20 (wristwatch
computer). Z80 like processor, RAM, ROM, and a serial port. NOT
imported into USA.
8:58 a.m.
On May 18, 2011, at 5:45 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
I don't know how common they are over there, but
the Tandy model 100 and 200 computers would fit the bill.
Ditto the recommendation for the Model T, especially if you can find a Model 200, or a
Model 102. The Model T still has a very active user community, and has proven to be an
extremely reliable piece of hardware.
If you get a Model T, you NEED to get a NADSbox and/or REX. Both allow for stuffing your
machine silly with offline storage and memory. Also do some searches for MTCPM for an
interesting project of note: getting CP/M working on the Model T (WARNING: not suitable
for children or the weak-willed).
8:30 a.m.
On 05/18/2011 07:23 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Guys,
I used a Cambridge Z88 for Retrochallenge last year (see
http://www.retrochallenge.org for last competition) whilst on holiday.
The summer challenge runs in the month of July - entries will be
welcome anytime by email to me mark at wickensonline dot co dot uk.
This year I'd like to use a different, portable computing device to
document this year's summer challenge, and possibly include a little
programming.
My criteria are:
* no larger than a Cambridge Z88.
* daylight readable screen.
* operates on batteries.
* preferably with some kind of programming language/environment.
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could
take this year that would be fun to explore but also practical enough
to use day to day to write text for the website. I will take a laptop
for uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC connectivity is a must
(although this could be as simple as an RS232 cable).
Many thanks, Mark
Find yourself a Epson PX8. Runs basic and has CP/M OS, cpu is Z80. it
has a serial port (rs232) and
there are wedges that anchor to the back of it that are either extended
memory (Ramdisk) or
Modem(300baud direct connect). It's laptop postable with internal
Nicads (1800mah).
I have one I've used for years, good portable.
Allison
10:59 a.m.
On 05/18/2011 12:23, Mark Wickens wrote:
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list as to what I could
take this year that would be fun to explore but also practical enough
to use day to day to write text for the website. I will take a laptop
for uploading text via wifi, so some sort of PC connectivity is a must
(although this could be as simple as an RS232 cable).
Many thanks, Mark
You could keep it British and go for something like the Psion
organisers, Microwriter or Microwriter Agenda or try some of Alan
Sugar's products like the NC's or a ppc512. Think of the attention you
will get by using a PPC512 on the train.. lol
Other alternatives are Apple Newtons, Tandy WP's or Epson HX20's
These all have serial ports i think..
If you are interested i think i have a few old Tandy WP devices
somewhere from a job lot of stuff i got you can have.
Roger
11:45 a.m.
I'd go for a Psion 3-series. They're small, have good built-in
software, a fair amount of RAM and a pretty good programming
environment. The straight 3 is pretty limited, but the 3a, 3c and 3mx
are pretty good (the 3mx especially, since it has a 21 MHz CPU, but
still has awesome battery life)
2:17 p.m.
On Wed, 18 May 2011, Michael Kerpan wrote:
I'd go for a Psion 3-series. They're small,
have good built-in
software, a fair amount of RAM and a pretty good programming
environment. The straight 3 is pretty limited, but the 3a, 3c and 3mx
are pretty good (the 3mx especially, since it has a 21 MHz CPU, but
still has awesome battery life)
Which models of Psion will run the Apple ][ emulator?
22 May
22 May
10:11 a.m.
On Wed, 18 May 2011 12:23:23 +0100
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
I'd welcome suggestions from members of the list
as to what I could take
this year that would be fun to explore but also practical enough to use
day to day to write text for the website.
IBM WorkPad z50
Not that practical for text editing, but fun to explore: HP48
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
15 Jun
15 Jun
10:54 a.m.
On 22 May 2011 18:11, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 12:23:23 +0100
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
I blame this thread for my acquisition of a Z88 yesterday and an
Amstrad NC100 today. :?)
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I'd welcome suggestions from members of the
list as to what I could take
this year that would be fun to explore but also practical enough to use
day to day to write text for the website.
IBM WorkPad z50
Not that practical for text editing, but fun to explore: HP48
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37 comments
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