15 Aug
2008
15 Aug
'08
1:31 p.m.
Anyone know what an IBM 4702 is? I found one in the trash at my local
dump. It's a cube shaped box with a couple of 5.25" floppy drives on
the front. Would this be of interest to anyone? If so, I'll pick it up
(free) but you'll have to come by and get it at my home in Bedford, NH.
15 Aug
15 Aug
1:37 p.m.
At 12:31 PM 8/15/2008, David Betz wrote:
Anyone know what an IBM 4702 is? I found one in the
trash at my local
dump.
http://www.plippard.com/pgl/CodingChronology.aspx
Sounds sufficiently weird to me. :-)
"The IBM 4700 Finance Communication System (FCS) consisted of a programmatic
controller and related peripherals, used primarily in finance industry retail branches.
The graphic above was the best I could do at finding a photo of an IBM 4702. I think the
IBM Corporation would like to forget about the 4700. In fact, the IBM 4700 product line
may have been the most forgettable product the IBM Corporation ever made. For me, and due
to its proprietary architecture, the IBM 4700 product line spelled profitability.
Introduced in the same year as the IBM PC (1981), the 4700 FCS was the follow-on product
to replace the IBM 3600 FCS. Unlike the IBM PC, the 4700 FCS was very much a proprietary
hardware and software product. All programming for the IBM 4702 processor was conducted
with an IBM mainframe based language called 4700 Finance Communication Language (FCL).
4700 FCL essentially used the IBM mainframe Assembler Language macro capability to
generate 4700 FCL op codes, which in turn were downloaded to the IBM 4702 and interpreted
by the 4700 microcode. If one has a creative imagination and compares 4700 FCL to
today's modern world of programming, 4700 microcode interpretation of 4700 FCL op
codes is similar in concept to the Microsoft .NET Common Language Runtime (CLR) and its
interpretation of Microsoft Intermediate Language (IL) instruction codes."
- John
2:03 p.m.
For a somewhat more complete picture, here's a presentation from an
outfit whose goal was to do away with the 4700 and connect the
peripherals to a PC:
http://www.nci-inc.com/Migratn.pdf
I get the impression that the 4702 was seen in banks and the like.
Cheers,
Chuck
3:18 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
For a somewhat more complete picture, here's a
presentation from an
outfit whose goal was to do away with the 4700 and connect the
peripherals to a PC:
http://www.nci-inc.com/Migratn.pdf
I get the impression that the 4702 was seen in banks and the like.
Cheers,
Chuck
Thanks to everyone who offered information on this machine! It sounds
like it's proprietary and probably not of much interest to collectors.
I guess I'll let it be recycled by my town dump people.
4:50 p.m.
Thanks to everyone who offered information on this
machine! It sounds like
it's proprietary and probably not of much interest to collectors. I guess
I'll let it be recycled by my town dump people.
What town? I am sure not everyone on this list would like to see it trashed.
--
Will
6:20 p.m.
Thanks to
everyone who offered information on this machine! It
sounds like
it's proprietary and probably not of much interest to collectors. I
guess
I'll let it be recycled by my town dump people.
What town? I am sure not everyone on this list would like to see it
trashed.
8:04 p.m.
Actually, I wouldn't count on it being there more than a few days.
It's in a trailer with TVs that are headed for recycling. I would pick
it up myself but I'm going out of town for a week starting early
tomorrow morning. I could have picked it up during the day today but
didn't get any encouraging responses on the list before my deadline
passed. Sorry!
On Aug 15, 2008, at 7:20 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Bedford, NH
OK, I am not paying attention...
Anyway, let me think about going up and getting this thing. How much
time do you think the box has?
--
Will
What town? I am sure not everyone on this list would
like to see it
trashed.
8:13 p.m.
Actually, I wouldn't count on it being there more
than a few days. It's in a
trailer with TVs that are headed for recycling. I would pick it up myself
but I'm going out of town for a week starting early tomorrow morning. I
could have picked it up during the day today but didn't get any encouraging
responses on the list before my deadline passed. Sorry!
Oh well. Not the biggest loss.
If you happen to go buy there and it still is around, maybe grab the cards.
--
Will
16 Aug
16 Aug
4:31 a.m.
David Betz wrote:
Actually, I wouldn't count on it being there more
than a few days. It's
in a trailer with TVs that are headed for recycling. I would pick it up
myself but I'm going out of town for a week starting early tomorrow
morning. I could have picked it up during the day today but didn't get
any encouraging responses on the list before my deadline passed. Sorry!
Give them a phone, maybe they'll stick it in a corner for you. Expect
to need to bring something nice to have with a cup of tea when you go
round to pick it up.
You'd be amazed how helpful "the guys on the ground" at the local cowp
will be if they think you're a good source of packets of biscuits ;-)
Gordon
4:36 a.m.
4700 FCS was very much a proprietary hardware and
software product. All
programming for the IBM 4702 processor was conducted with an IBM
mainframe based language called 4700 Finance Communication Language
(FCL). 4700 FCL essentially used the IBM mainframe Assembler Language
macro capability to generate 4700 FCL op codes, which in turn were
downloaded to the IBM 4702 and interpreted by the 4700 microcode. If one
has a creative imagination and compares 4700 FCL to today's modern world
of programming, 4700 microcode interpretation of 4700 FCL op codes is
similar in concept to the Microsoft .NET Common Language Runtime (CLR)
and its interpretation of Microsoft Intermediate Language (IL)
instruction codes."
One has to be careful with IBM's terminology. Opcodes are called
microinstructions, and they are executed ("interpreted") by the microcode
(i.e. the processor). So microcode in IBM's terminology is always
interpreted by the processor (what else should a processor do?). This
doesn't mean that there must be an additional interpreter written in
machine code that interpretes the op codes. However this is what IBM did
e.g. with the 5110 and its built in System/3 and System/360 interpreters
which are written in PALM microinstructions which in turn is "interpreted"
by the processor. So either IBM did something similar for the 4702, or
the 4702 processor directly executes FCL opcodes.
Christian
11:36 a.m.
On 16 Aug 2008 at 10:36, Christian Corti wrote:
One has to be careful with IBM's terminology.
Opcodes are called
microinstructions, and they are executed ("interpreted") by the microcode
(i.e. the processor). So microcode in IBM's terminology is always
interpreted by the processor (what else should a processor do?). This
doesn't mean that there must be an additional interpreter written in
machine code that interpretes the op codes. However this is what IBM did
e.g. with the 5110 and its built in System/3 and System/360 interpreters
which are written in PALM microinstructions which in turn is "interpreted"
by the processor. So either IBM did something similar for the 4702, or
the 4702 processor directly executes FCL opcodes.
Sometimes it pays to read people's resum?s. One such that I ran
across talked about coding in both 4700 FCL and 4700 assembler.
Unless the writer was "padding" things, that might indicate that FCL
was just a language, not a macrocode implementation.
Cheers,
Chuck
15 Aug
15 Aug
1:38 p.m.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:31:38 -0400, David Betz wrote:
Anyone know what an IBM 4702 is? I found one in the
trash at my local
dump. It's a cube shaped box with a couple of 5.25" floppy drives on
the front. Would this be of interest to anyone? If so, I'll pick it up
(free) but you'll have to come by and get it at my home in Bedford, NH.
Here is a hint:
"When B-Loop Attachment Feature is selected, the 9068 attaches to IBM 4702 Branch
Automation
Processor as either an IBM 4722 or IBM 4772 (model S01)."
Bob
4:24 p.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/
Very cool. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0808151323520.17148 at grumble.deltasoft.com>,
Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> writes:
Nice.... now you can cross-compile code over to Apple ][e and C=64!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
8:08 p.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 01:24:33PM -0700, Gene Buckle wrote:
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/
Very cool. :)
Cool indeed, but I have to say that back in the day, I was a Lattice C
user on the Amiga and thought it was a pain to have to "port" project
from one compiler to another on the same platform
(different 'make'
environments, plus for system code, Manx/Aztec C users on
the Amiga
frequently used inline assembler in a way that wasn't easy to migrate
to something friendly to the Lattice compiler - one case in point was
that I never did get a user-written 5.25" driver ported over to Lattice
to do some fiddling with RX50 diskettes).
I'm not saying it was a bad compiler by any means, just different enough
from the one I had to be a pain.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 16-Aug-2008 at 00:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -66.6 F (-54.8 C) Windchill -111.2 F (-79.5 C)
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Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
9:12 p.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
At 03:24 PM 8/15/2008, Gene Buckle wrote:
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/
Very cool. :)
Are you talking with this fellow? Any chance of rescuing the old source
code to the compilers? I worked with it quite a bit on the Amiga, and
knew Harry, Jim, and their marketing staff...
- John
16 Aug
16 Aug
1:57 a.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
At 03:24 PM 8/15/2008, Gene Buckle wrote:
John, I just happened to see the link posted by the page author on
comp.sys.apple2 and figured there would be some interest here.
BTW, if anyone out there has source code for Citadel 2.20 for CP/M,
please contact me.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/
Very cool. :)
Are you talking with this fellow? Any chance of rescuing the old source
code to the compilers? I worked with it quite a bit on the Amiga, and
knew Harry, Jim, and their marketing staff...
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, John Foust wrote:
At 03:24 PM 8/15/2008, Gene Buckle wrote:
The owner of that site is a regular on comp.sys.apple2. He has been in
touch with the current copyright owner but, as usual, they have lost the
source code. This is really a pet peeve of mine: Why would someone lose
track of such a fundamental part of the value of the program? It seems
all too prevelant, though.
Sad part is, I'll almost guarantee that one of their past employees has it
sitting on a tape or pile of 8" floppies in their basement.
--
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/
Very cool. :)
Are you talking with this fellow? Any chance of rescuing the old source
code to the compilers? I worked with it quite a bit on the Amiga, and
knew Harry, Jim, and their marketing staff... 
10:08 a.m.
New subject: Aztec C museum...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Steven Hirsch wrote:
There's that as well.
--
Sad part is, I'll almost guarantee that one of their past employees has it
sitting on a tape or pile of 8" floppies in their basement.
I am tempted to add, "disgruntled employee" instead,
5825
days inactive
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20 comments
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
caveguy＠sbcglobal.net -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
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