3 Feb
2004
3 Feb
'04
4:40 a.m.
Hi folks,
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
Pix at
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing
icky stuff
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel
Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :)
I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is,
can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all
that's at fault?
Cheers as ever.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
3 Feb
3 Feb
5:18 a.m.
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote:
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers
etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
Pretty common. We've discussed this at length at least a couple times
before. It might be worth a while poking through the archives (er, well,
Google, since the archives are in a sem-permanent statis at this point).
If you can't find a similar tape mechanism then you may want to make a new
one. Tony Duell had some good suggestions for this.
And I guess as far as long term storage, keep your tape drives in a cooler
environment with, what, at least 50% humidity?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5:23 a.m.
Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive capstan rubber sleeves
that are over twenty years old show the same "attribute" of "melting"
- I've
repaired several of the critters.
I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches as closley as
possible the specs. of the original rubber and use a good rubber/metal glue -
usually black and very "sticky" (essential for HP high speed drives).
Lyle
On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:40, Witchy wrote:
Hi folks,
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
Pix at
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing
icky stuff
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel
Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :)
I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is,
can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all
that's at fault?
Cheers as ever.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer
museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
6:53 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lyle Bickley
Sent: 03 February 2004 19:23
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller
Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive capstan
rubber sleeves that are over twenty years old show the same
"attribute" of "melting" - I've repaired several of the
critters.
I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches
as closley as possible the specs. of the original rubber and
use a good rubber/metal glue - usually black and very
"sticky" (essential for HP high speed drives).
Ah, OK. I'd not thought of replacing the rubber with tubing. I'd gone down
the route of 'damn it was a thick square faced continuous rubber
band...where am I going to get THOSE from' :)
Sellam, yes, storage isn't a problem here. I only got the machine last week
so I don't know where it had been stored before....I'll have a google when I
get a spare few mins. I remember the discussion but not the outcome.....
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
9:22 a.m.
At 11:23 AM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive
capstan rubber sleeves
that are over twenty years old show the same "attribute" of "melting"
- I've
repaired several of the critters.
I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches as closley as
possible the specs. of the original rubber and use a good rubber/metal
glue -
usually black and very "sticky" (essential
for HP high speed drives).
I use super glue and it works fine. Just use it very sparingly. If you
use too much it will get on the outside of the roller and make it slick. I
use a drop that's smaller than the head of a pin and let it wick into the
joint.
Joe
Lyle
On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:40, Witchy wrote:
Hi folks,
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
Pix at
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing
icky stuff
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel
Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :)
I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is,
can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all
that's at fault?
Cheers as ever.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer
museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
9:19 a.m.
At 06:40 PM 2/3/04 +0000, you wrote:
Hi folks,
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive.
Then you've never owned a HP tape drive! It's a common problem on them.
The first trick is to find a tape drive with a good roller and measure it's
size. A lot of people make new (small) rollers out of model airplane
silicon rubber fuel line. I've used rubber bushings from electrical plugs
for the bigger sizes such as the HP-85. I've also build up the aluminium
rollers with layers of heatshrink tubing. HS works but it wears fast and
it's hard to get it exactly round.
Joe
Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in
my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
Pix at
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing
icky stuff
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel
Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :)
I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is,
can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all
that's at fault?
Cheers as ever.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
10:15 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R.
Sent: 03 February 2004 23:19
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller
The first trick is to find a tape drive with a good roller
and measure it's size. A lot of people make new (small)
OK :) Anyone out there got a Sharp MZ80B they're willing to dismantle for
me? 7 screws off the back of the monitor/tape drive housing and 5 screws to
remove the mechanism after some careful cable unplugging, and watch for the
monitor flyback transformer....
sizes such as the HP-85. I've also build up the
aluminium
rollers with layers of heatshrink tubing. HS works but it
wears fast and it's hard to get it exactly round.
Right. Thinking cap on for me then....I was hoping for a spare part, but I
guess something homegrown is more satisfying.
Cheers!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
10:05 a.m.
I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers
etc but I've never seen
it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel
that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired
Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the
housing and gummed up the tape wheels.
You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you can get one
the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and
see if they can match it up.
I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want something with
a rectangluar cross-section.
I believe classic car restorers use a 2-part 'rubber' compound to make
thigns like pedal rubbers, seals, etc. I wonder if that could be used to
make rollers, etc. Making the moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable
home workshop. Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK?
I've got a roller to rebuild sometime. The platten roller for a Versatec
V80 electrostatic plotter. It's turned to goo. This is a full-size
platten, in 2 parts, with differential gearing between them (to keep the
paper running straight!). Should be 'interesting' to repair...
-tony
7:23 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 04 February 2004 00:06
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller
You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you
can get one the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR
spares/repair place and see if they can match it up.
Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here closed down a couple of
years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the
grumpiest people I've ever come across.
I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you
want
something with a rectangluar cross-section.
Does it have to be? Though I suppose I need something that's solid and not
liable to shift around so the speed of the drive will be constant.
wonder if that could be used to make rollers, etc.
Making the
moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable home workshop.
Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK?
There's a car interior restorer just down the road from here - they might
know, though with a name like 'northumbrian leather interiors' they might
not :)
This is a full-size platten, in 2 parts, with
differential
gearing between them (to keep the paper running straight!).
Should be 'interesting' to repair...
Ick - sounds like fun!
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
4 Feb
4 Feb
2:31 a.m.
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote:
Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here
closed down a couple of
years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the
grumpiest people I've ever come across.
You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR and bought a
new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
4:59 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage
Computer Festival
Sent: 04 February 2004 16:32
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: 'melted' tape roller
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote:
Yes, there is that, particularly since he charged something like ukp50 just
to look at something (he does hi-fis, tv's and microwaves too) - the one
that closed down was half his costs which is why I used them more.
Actually, you've just reminded me of a big repair place not far from here
that may have a Big Box of old spares they keep just for people like me to
wander in and rifle through :)
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here
closed
down a couple
of years ago; never found out why. There's
one more but he's one of
the grumpiest people I've ever come across.
You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR
and bought a new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\
9:27 a.m.
You would be
too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR
and bought a new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\
Yes, there is that, particularly since he charged something like ukp50 just 
6:43 a.m.
Only too true, not too long ago , a company was advertising the bare rubber
sections for pinch rollers etc. for almost any Vcr you could mention - I
haven't seen them advertise for months , and the phone no. is no longer
valid. - They are (were?) JJ Electronics somewhere in London nw9.
Geoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday,
February 04, 2004 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: 'melted' tape roller
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote:
Festival
Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here
closed down a couple of
years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the
grumpiest people I've ever come across.
You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR and bought a
new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage
mputers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at
http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
9:34 a.m.
Only too true, not too long ago , a company was advertising the bare rubber
sections for pinch rollers etc. for almost any Vcr you could mention - I
haven't seen them advertise for months , and the phone no. is no longer
valid. - They are (were?) JJ Electronics somewhere in London nw9.
I think Grandata (Wembley, North London) are still going. They used to
have a lot of VCR rubber parts (belts, pinch rollers, idlers) in stock,
and their prices were good. I've not needed anything like that for a bit,
but they're still advertising in Television magazine.
Dunno if Manor Supplies do VCR parts, but they're still going in Edgware
(they moved from Weat Hamstead a few years ago).
-tony
9:07 a.m.
I don't
think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want
something with a rectangluar cross-section.
Does it have to be? Though I suppose I need something that's solid and not
liable to shift around so the speed of the drive will be constant. There's a car interior restorer just down the road
from here - they might
know, though with a name like 'northumbrian leather interiors' they might
not :)
Thinks... There used to be a company called 'Eastwood Tools' somewhere
near Bristol (Yate???). They're the sort of place that would have stocked
it. Dunno if they're still around, though.
This is a full-size platten, in 2 parts, with
differential
gearing between them (to keep the paper running straight!).
Should be 'interesting' to repair...
Ick - sounds like fun!
7:46 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 04 February 2004 23:08
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller
Constant speed probably isn't _that_ important. On most of
these units, the idler is only used for rewind and fast
forward (and maybe for driving the takeup spool clutch in
play/record modes). The tape speed is determined by the
capstan and pinch roller in play and record (which is when it
really matters).
Ah yes, of course. I'd forgotten about the pinch roller - must be 20 years
or so since I last had a tape recorder in bits :)
Thinks... There used to be a company called
'Eastwood Tools'
somewhere near Bristol (Yate???). They're the sort of place
that would have stocked it. Dunno if they're still around, though.
Some swift googling doesn't turn up a web presence but that doesn't mean
much. Mind, 192.com comes up with nothing either.
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
6:29 a.m.
On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:05, Tony Duell wrote:
You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would
work if you can get one
the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and
see if they can match it up.
YOu can also turn rubber pretty easily on a small drill press. The real
chore is to chuck it so it rotates concentrically. I've had to
manufacture a new rubber anvil wheel for a 1920's Western Union machine,
a tire about 2" diam x 1/4" wide. Came out quite nice.
I got some 60-durometer neoprene sheet (from Industrial Metal Supply,
Sun Valley CA), chopped it roundish, hole-sawed it (large hole) and just
jammed it over a giant mill bit.
It's rubber; it grips. If the tape drive spindle that the 'tire' fits
over is say 1/2" diameter, drill a slightly smaller hole in the rubber,
and chuck a 1/2" 'thing' in the drill press. Press the tire on. It won't
grip hard, but enough for engine turning.
Turn the drill press on, and use a rough file to get it the right size
and shape. Then apply sandpaper on a wooden block. Can't use much
pressure else the tire flies off.
I used the drill press table as a hand rest.
You can get the surface nice and smoothly rough with sandpaper.
tomj
I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want something with
a rectangluar cross-section.
I believe classic car restorers use a 2-part 'rubber' compound to make
thigns like pedal rubbers, seals, etc. I wonder if that could be used to
make rollers, etc. Making the moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable
home workshop. Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK?
I've got a roller to rebuild sometime. The platten roller for a Versatec
V80 electrostatic plotter. It's turned to goo. This is a full-size
platten, in 2 parts, with differential gearing between them (to keep the
paper running straight!). Should be 'interesting' to repair...
-tony
9:31 a.m.
On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:05, Tony Duell wrote:
A small lathe is even better, but note that the cutting tool is very
different in angle from that used for metal turning! Freezing the rubber
in liquid nitrogen helps (it makes it a lot firmer), if you happen to have
the liquid nitrogen....
-tony
You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR
would work if you can get one
the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and
see if they can match it up.
YOu can also turn rubber pretty easily on a small drill press. The real
7:51 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 04 February 2004 23:32
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller
A small lathe is even better, but note that the cutting tool
is very different in angle from that used for metal turning!
Freezing the rubber in liquid nitrogen helps (it makes it a
lot firmer), if you happen to have the liquid nitrogen....
I didn't have any the last time I looked :) Next time I have room on the
repair desk I'll just whip the old roller up to the appliance repair place
I'd forgotten about and see if they've got anything similar.....
Pity I couldn't just glue on a rubber band of similar width, but I'd guess
they're too soft?
Cheers
w
7579
days inactive
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18 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
geoffreythomas＠onetel.net.uk -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
tomj＠wps.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk