6 Dec
2017
6 Dec
'17
10:07 a.m.
On 12/03/2017 10:00 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
That sounds like the original version with the
separate logic module.
I think the display is the same between the 2 versions. I am also
pretty sure the same display is used in all the old Voyagers (there
are annunciators on it that are not used on some models, but they
are still there on the display of that model). AFAIK the difference
between the models is the firmware.
Please forgive the delayed response--for some reason, the CCTalk server
belched up a bunch of messages dating from 30 November onward today.
I've read a bit on the HPMuseum forums that indicate that early displays
aren't interchangeable with later ones--the later ones apparently use a
finer-pitch connector.
My own HP 16C has a serial number beginning with 2228A..., which I
believe puts its date of manufacture in 1982, so my fingers are crossed
to see if the "old" HP12C that I picked up on eBay is even close in
terms of display connections.
--Chuck
6 Dec
6 Dec
10:10 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:07 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 12/03/2017 10:00 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
'Later' here might mean the modern versions of the 12C, which is very
different. I thought both types of construction of the original Voyagers
used the same display but I must admit I have never swapped them over.
-tony
That sounds like the original version with the
separate logic module.
I think the display is the same between the 2 versions. I am also
pretty sure the same display is used in all the old Voyagers (there
are annunciators on it that are not used on some models, but they
are still there on the display of that model). AFAIK the difference
between the models is the firmware.
Please forgive the delayed response--for some reason, the CCTalk server
belched up a bunch of messages dating from 30 November onward today.
I've read a bit on the HPMuseum forums that indicate that early displays
aren't interchangeable with later ones--the later ones apparently use a
finer-pitch connector.
12:53 p.m.
On 12/06/2017 10:10 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
'Later' here might mean the modern versions of
the 12C, which is very
different. I thought both types of construction of the original Voyagers
used the same display but I must admit I have never swapped them over.
Feh, the "old" HP12C that I got for $15 is only 30 years old. My HP16C
is 35 years old. The innards between the two are completely different.
My HP16C comes wrapped in antistatic plastic and has what looks to be a
hand-wired axial resistor and a "blob" tantalum cap hand-soldered in
near the battery holder. The display is on a separate board connected
via a flex cable labeled "HP Sheldahl USA 1130-0504.
The 12C is all on a single PCB, with no ESD wrap. Miles apart.
-------------------
So it boils down to finding a REALLY old 12C and hoping that it's
compatible with my 16C in terms of parts or putting everything back
together and buying the Swiss clone, which will, after all is said and
done, set me back $200.
I don't fancy that there's much hope in finding a 35 year old 12C for
sale at a reasonable price--and the display will still be very old.
Sigh,
Chuck
1:22 p.m.
I just looked back at the archives of the hpmuseum.org site and the
donor 12C that the display came from for the 16C I repaired for another
MoHPC member had a serial number that began with 2224A and was the
version with the innards wrapped in black plastic like your 16C.
Paul.
On 2017-12-06 4:53 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 12/06/2017 10:10 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
'Later' here might mean the modern
versions of the 12C, which is very
different. I thought both types of construction of the original Voyagers
used the same display but I must admit I have never swapped them over.
Feh, the
"old" HP12C that I got for $15 is only 30 years old. My HP16C
is 35 years old. The innards between the two are completely different.
My HP16C comes wrapped in antistatic plastic and has what looks to be a
hand-wired axial resistor and a "blob" tantalum cap hand-soldered in
near the battery holder. The display is on a separate board connected
via a flex cable labeled "HP Sheldahl USA 1130-0504.
The 12C is all on a single PCB, with no ESD wrap. Miles apart.
-------------------
So it boils down to finding a REALLY old 12C and hoping that it's
compatible with my 16C in terms of parts or putting everything back
together and buying the Swiss clone, which will, after all is said and
done, set me back $200.
I don't fancy that there's much hope in finding a 35 year old 12C for
sale at a reasonable price--and the display will still be very old.
Sigh,
Chuck
2:11 p.m.
On 12/06/2017 01:22 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
I just looked back at the archives of the hpmuseum.org
site and the
donor 12C that the display came from for the 16C I repaired for another
MoHPC member had a serial number that began with 2224A and was the
version with the innards wrapped in black plastic like your 16C.
My lovely wife remembered that she had a 12C when she was taking some
accounting classes (part of an unused Master of Public Administration
degree she has). We found it--still in its old box, serial number
2316A... We're in business.
Now, how does one remove the display from one board and transplant it
the other? Is it as simple as bending back the LCD frame tabs?
Thanks,
Chuck
2:51 p.m.
Ok I am guessing you have figured out how to take the back off? (screws
under the rubber feet) with the calculator upside down and the display
away from you there is a connector at the top right that connects the
keyboard to the electronics on the back of the display carefully? lift
that? flexible cable over the posts.? With the back off the display
module is big held in by four foam blocks that fit over the plastic
posts, gently lift the display module up and they will come with it.?
The part you are going to change is just the glass of the display it is
held in place by a metal frame that has tabs folded over.? You can try
to save the thin plastic anti static wrap but it is held on with the
glue from hell so you will probably end up cutting some of it away.? The
glass part of the display is connected to the circuit board under it by
elastomer block, keep them clean any debris on them will probably result
in a segment that does not work.? Swap the refold the tabs on the metal
frame and reassemble.? You will note that on inside of the back of the
display there are hollow posts that fit over post at the keyboard
connector and display to test it before putting it all back together,
put batteries in, and hold the keyboard connector in place with your finger.
Paul.
On 2017-12-06 6:11 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 12/06/2017 01:22 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
I just looked back at the archives of the
hpmuseum.org site and the
donor 12C that the display came from for the 16C I repaired for another
MoHPC member had a serial number that began with 2224A and was the
version with the innards wrapped in black plastic like your 16C.
My lovely wife
remembered that she had a 12C when she was taking some
accounting classes (part of an unused Master of Public Administration
degree she has). We found it--still in its old box, serial number
2316A... We're in business.
Now, how does one remove the display from one board and transplant it
the other? Is it as simple as bending back the LCD frame tabs?
Thanks,
Chuck
3:27 p.m.
On 12/06/2017 02:51 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
Ok I am guessing you have figured out how to take the
back off? (screws
under the rubber feet) with the calculator upside down and the display
away from you there is a connector at the top right that connects the
keyboard to the electronics on the back of the display carefully? lift
that? flexible cable over the posts.? With the back off the display
module is big held in by four foam blocks that fit over the plastic
posts, gently lift the display module up and they will come with it.?
The part you are going to change is just the glass of the display it is
held in place by a metal frame that has tabs folded over.? You can try
to save the thin plastic anti static wrap but it is held on with the
glue from hell so you will probably end up cutting some of it away.? The
glass part of the display is connected to the circuit board under it by
elastomer block, keep them clean any debris on them will probably result
in a segment that does not work.? Swap the refold the tabs on the metal
frame and reassemble.? You will note that on inside of the back of the
display there are hollow posts that fit over post at the keyboard
connector and display to test it before putting it all back together,
put batteries in, and hold the keyboard connector in place with your
finger.
Okay, as a test, I swapped the display board from the 15C to my 16C, so
I have a working 15C with mislabeled keys. :)
The black plastic over the display/brains board is indeed held on with
the glue from hell. I've slit it with an Xacto knife and gently scraped
as much of it off as I could with a small ABS scraper. At least now, I
can see the LCD frame tabs. I'm going to take a small flat-bladed
screwdriver and bend them away to release the LCD.
Stay tuned...
--Chuck
6:42 p.m.
Well, I replaced the LCD and was greeted with missing segments. Any
suggestions before I throw in the towel?
That glue from hell necessitated picking off the black plastic shielding
bit by bit with forceps ans a magnifying glass. Really awful stuff.
--Chuck
7 p.m.
Well that usually means that there is contamination at the connection
point or the sandwich is not clamped tightly enough.? I have cleaned
them off with alcohol and a lint free cloth.? If I remember correctly
there is not space for you to get them out of alignment.
Paul.
On 2017-12-06 10:42 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Well, I replaced the LCD and was greeted with missing
segments. Any
suggestions before I throw in the towel?
That glue from hell necessitated picking off the black plastic shielding
bit by bit with forceps ans a magnifying glass. Really awful stuff.
--Chuck
7:26 p.m.
On 12/06/2017 07:00 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
Well that usually means that there is contamination at
the connection
point or the sandwich is not clamped tightly enough.? I have cleaned
them off with alcohol and a lint free cloth.? If I remember correctly
there is not space for you to get them out of alignment.
I went back over the LCD elastomer and the PCB area with isopropanol and
a soft cloth. That damned glue can get everywhere with bits of the ESD
"paper"...
Bingo.
My faithful HP16C is now functional again! Maybe we can put in a few
more years together...
Thank you all, but especially Paul.
--Chuck
7:30 p.m.
On 2017-12-06 11:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 12/06/2017 07:00 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
You are welcome glad it is going again it is the very best programmers
calculator ever made.? Mine is just a little newer than yours and still
going strong.? I bought mine new when taking a 370 assembler course.
Paul.
Well that usually means that there is
contamination at the connection
point or the sandwich is not clamped tightly enough.? I have cleaned
them off with alcohol and a lint free cloth.? If I remember correctly
there is not space for you to get them out of alignment.
I went back over the LCD
elastomer and the PCB area with isopropanol and
a soft cloth. That damned glue can get everywhere with bits of the ESD
"paper"...
Bingo.
My faithful HP16C is now functional again! Maybe we can put in a few
more years together...
Thank you all, but especially Paul.
--Chuck
8:05 p.m.
On 12/06/2017 07:30 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
You are welcome glad it is going again it is the very
best programmers
calculator ever made.? Mine is just a little newer than yours and still
going strong.? I bought mine new when taking a 370 assembler course.
I bought mine when my TI Programmer died. I did not like that
calculator--small LED digits that did a poor job of hex displaying. The
thing ate batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
For a time, I was involved in systems with long word length (60
(octal)/64 bit (hex)); when we started writing for the ETA 10, that
little calculator earned its keep--48-bit *bit* addresses, with indices
in bit, byte, halfword (32 bit) and 64-bit words. Calculating addresses
by hand was "interesting" and the HP16C made it so much easier.
The little thing has stayed on my desk ever since. I can't say that
I've used the programmable feature more than a couple of times. I doubt
that many bit-banging programmers have, either.
It's a shame that HP discontinued it.
--Chuck
23 Dec
23 Dec
9:14 p.m.
New subject: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
By the way, on the Mac, a very excellent emulation of the Voyager series including the 16C
and the 15C with a weird pseudo French name: "nonpareil-16C"
Highly recommended, works as beautifully as it looks. I did not find a good emulation on
the PC. There is one that had a good demo but costs $20, and I was never able to buy it,
their buying site has a bug.
Marc
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of "cctalk at
classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>, "cctalk at classiccmp.org"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 8:05 PM
To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: OT: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
On 12/06/2017 07:30 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
You are welcome glad it is going again it is the very best programmers
calculator ever made. Mine is just a little newer than yours and still
going strong. I bought mine new when taking a 370 assembler course.
I bought mine when my TI Programmer died. I did not like that
calculator--small LED digits that did a poor job of hex displaying. The
thing ate batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
For a time, I was involved in systems with long word length (60
(octal)/64 bit (hex)); when we started writing for the ETA 10, that
little calculator earned its keep--48-bit *bit* addresses, with indices
in bit, byte, halfword (32 bit) and 64-bit words. Calculating addresses
by hand was "interesting" and the HP16C made it so much easier.
The little thing has stayed on my desk ever since. I can't say that
I've used the programmable feature more than a couple of times. I doubt
that many bit-banging programmers have, either.
It's a shame that HP discontinued it.
--Chuck
9:18 p.m.
New subject: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
On 12/24/2017 12:14 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
I did not find a good emulation on the PC. There is
one that had a good demo but costs $20, and I was never able to buy it, their buying site
has a bug.
Marc
http://hp15c.com/
9:27 p.m.
New subject: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Thanks very much! I am going to install this one. But I was looking more specifically for
a 16C on the PC. Anyone knows?
Marc
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of "cctalk at
classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "js at cimmeri.com" <js at cimmeri.com>, "cctalk at
classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 9:18 PM
To: <General at ezwind.net>, "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
On 12/24/2017 12:14 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
I did not find a good emulation on the PC. There is one that had a good demo but costs
$20, and I was never able to buy it, their buying site has a bug.
Marc
http://hp15c.com/
24 Dec
24 Dec
9:58 a.m.
New subject: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Maybe this got missed.
HP16C - PC software http://www.wrpn.emmet-gray.com/
Keven Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curious Marc via cctech" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
To: <js at cimmeri.com>; <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sat 23 Dec 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Thanks very much! I am going to install this one. But
I was looking more
specifically for a 16C on the PC. Anyone knows?
Marc
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of
"cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "js at cimmeri.com" <js at cimmeri.com>, "cctalk at
classiccmp.org"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 9:18 PM
To: <General at ezwind.net>, "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
On 12/24/2017 12:14 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
I did not find a good emulation on the PC. There is one that had a good
demo but costs $20, and I was never able to buy it, their buying site has
a bug.
Marc
http://hp15c.com/
27 Dec
27 Dec
5:42 p.m.
New subject: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Thanks. This is one ugly duckling. I know why I didn't keep it! But it seems to be
functional. Stick to the 15C mentioned before if you don't need the programmer's
features.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: Keven Miller(3k) [mailto:kevenm at 3kranger.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 9:59 AM
To: Curious Marc; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts; js at cimmeri.com; cctalk at
classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Maybe this got missed.
HP16C - PC software http://www.wrpn.emmet-gray.com/
Keven Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curious Marc via cctech" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
To: <js at cimmeri.com>; <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sat 23 Dec 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
Thanks very much! I am going to install this one. But
I was looking more
specifically for a 16C on the PC. Anyone knows?
Marc
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of
"cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "js at cimmeri.com" <js at cimmeri.com>, "cctalk at
classiccmp.org"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 9:18 PM
To: <General at ezwind.net>, "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!
On 12/24/2017 12:14 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
I did not find a good emulation on the PC. There is one that had a good
demo but costs $20, and I was never able to buy it, their buying site has
a bug.
Marc
http://hp15c.com/
2551
days inactive
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days old
16 comments
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