20 Nov
2007
20 Nov
'07
3:06 p.m.
I've just gotten my hands on a working AT&T Sceptre system, which is a
1983 Videotex terminal that implements the NAPLPS standard for vector
graphics transmission (the same sort of graphics that was used by the
Prodigy online service, if you remember that). It powers up fine and
generates the welcome screen, which includes a "Press [Data] to login"
message. Once you press [Data], the screen blanks, and I presume that
it's trying to establish some sort of connection over the RS-232 port.
I've just started poking at the thing and haven't gotten far, as I
need to grab a null modem from elsewhere, but I thought there might be
a chance that somebody out there has the documentation for one of
these things. Through searching about, I'm fairly certain that it's
hardwired to speak 1200/7E1 on the serial port, but what it's
expecting to hear is the question. Just a stream of NAPLPS-encoded
data? Or is there more negotiation to be done?
I have at least found an online source for the NAPLPS encoding itself:
http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt
20 Nov
20 Nov
3:20 p.m.
Mark Meiss wrote:
I've just gotten my hands on a working AT&T
Sceptre system, which is a
1983 Videotex terminal that implements the NAPLPS standard for vector
graphics transmission (the same sort of graphics that was used by the
Prodigy online service, if you remember that). It powers up fine and
generates the welcome screen, which includes a "Press [Data] to login"
message. Once you press [Data], the screen blanks, and I presume that
it's trying to establish some sort of connection over the RS-232 port.
I've just started poking at the thing and haven't gotten far, as I
need to grab a null modem from elsewhere, but I thought there might be
a chance that somebody out there has the documentation for one of
these things. Through searching about, I'm fairly certain that it's
hardwired to speak 1200/7E1 on the serial port, but what it's
expecting to hear is the question. Just a stream of NAPLPS-encoded
data? Or is there more negotiation to be done?
I am guessing it hardwrired for 1200/7E1 download and 300/7E1 uploading.
Here in Canada you had more NAPLPS stuff, but NAPLPS terminals where
allways a rare item to be found.
I have at least found an online source for the NAPLPS
encoding itself:
http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt
4:40 p.m.
woodelf wrote:
Mark Meiss wrote:
There's a Telidon (Cdn videotex service/standard) terminal at the radio museum
here I've been intending to look at/play with. Has a colour monitor but it's
missing the keyboard (KB plugs in via an RJ-11 jack, so it must be some serial
interface). I've been mulling about what to do with it: it's really outside
the radio museum's mandate and could get tossed at any time. Historically it
speaks to a pre-internet attempt at a public data/information network so it
should be in a museum, but I'm not all that enthused about storing it at home.
I suppose it adheres to the above-mentioned NAPLPS protocol or some variation.
I remember when it was the topic-of-the-day in the early 80's but don't
remember details of issues regarding the British/French/Cdn/whatever protocol standards.
I've just gotten my hands on a working
AT&T Sceptre system, which is a
1983 Videotex terminal that implements the NAPLPS standard for vector
graphics transmission (the same sort of graphics that was used by the
Prodigy online service, if you remember that). It powers up fine and
generates the welcome screen, which includes a "Press [Data] to login"
message. Once you press [Data], the screen blanks, and I presume that
it's trying to establish some sort of connection over the RS-232 port.
I've just started poking at the thing and haven't gotten far, as I
need to grab a null modem from elsewhere, but I thought there might be
a chance that somebody out there has the documentation for one of
these things. Through searching about, I'm fairly certain that it's
hardwired to speak 1200/7E1 on the serial port, but what it's
expecting to hear is the question. Just a stream of NAPLPS-encoded
data? Or is there more negotiation to be done?
I am guessing it hardwrired for 1200/7E1 download and 300/7E1 uploading.
Here in Canada you had more NAPLPS stuff, but NAPLPS terminals where
allways a rare item to be found.
> I have at least found an online source for the NAPLPS encoding itself:
>
> http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt 
3:37 p.m.
In article <653a64ac0711201206w5a1007f4xe6194acf9c8dc1f7 at mail.gmail.com>,
"Mark Meiss" <chaosotter76 at gmail.com> writes:
I've just gotten my hands on a working AT&T
Sceptre system [...]
Sweet! Can we see some pictures? I've been looking for a videotex
terminal, but since noone remembers what videotex (or NAPLPS) is
anymore its hard to find out exactly which terminals have this support
without already knowing about it.
I've just started poking at the thing and
haven't gotten far, as I
need to grab a null modem from elsewhere,
I use a USB<->RS232 dongle (they're cheap) and talk to terminals with
my PC. I write code that generates the appropriate escape codes to
make the terminal do something interesting. You can also use a
terminal emulator program and have it talk to your terminal like its a
modem. I haven't needed any "null modem" cables in order for this to
work so far.
I have at least found an online source for the NAPLPS
encoding itself:
http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt
The only reference I know of is that there was a big article on NAPLPS
in BYTE magazine back in the early 80s. I believe it was mentioned on
the cover, but I couldn't find any mention of it here
<http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/csbib/Misc/byte>
--
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3:52 p.m.
Richard wrote:
The naplps stuff is fairly regular, but escape codes shift out/in
terminal or line/graphics codes. Byte I think was the best reference
I have seen.
I use a USB<->RS232 dongle (they're cheap)
and talk to terminals with
my PC. I write code that generates the appropriate escape codes to
make the terminal do something interesting. You can also use a
terminal emulator program and have it talk to your terminal like its a
modem. I haven't needed any "null modem" cables in order for this to
work so far.
Just keep away from escape and SI/SO control codes for now.
I had some stuff on that about 10 years ago, but that is now
all History. One thing about the terminals I have used is that
they are DOG slow regarding text updates.Also I don't think
they do local echo.
I have at
least found an online source for the NAPLPS encoding itself:
http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt
The only reference I know of is that there was a big article on NAPLPS
in BYTE magazine back in the early 80s. I believe it was mentioned on
the cover, but I couldn't find any mention of it here
<http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/csbib/Misc/byte>
4:36 p.m.
In article <47434914.3060207 at jetnet.ab.ca>,
woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> writes:
Richard wrote:
Eh? I've used escape codes over a USB dongle and had no problems.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
I use a USB<->RS232 dongle (they're
cheap) and talk to terminals with
my PC. I write code that generates the appropriate escape codes to
make the terminal do something interesting. You can also use a
terminal emulator program and have it talk to your terminal like its a
modem. I haven't needed any "null modem" cables in order for this to
work so far.
Just keep away from escape and SI/SO control codes for now. 
3:52 p.m.
On 20 Nov 2007 at 13:37, Richard wrote:
The only reference I know of is that there was a big
article on NAPLPS
in BYTE magazine back in the early 80s. I believe it was mentioned on
the cover, but I couldn't find any mention of it here
<http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/csbib/Misc/byte>
My "now useless documentation" drawer has the Videotex standard
document in it. IIRC, one learned the answer to the question "What's
an ogonek?"
Cheers,
Chuck
4:36 p.m.
On Nov 20, 2007 3:37 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
Sweet! Can we see some pictures? I've been looking for a videotex
terminal, but since noone remembers what videotex (or NAPLPS) is
anymore its hard to find out exactly which terminals have this support
without already knowing about it.
My digital photography skills are poor (to say the least), but here
are a few pictures of the equipment:
http://steinbeck.ucs.indiana.edu/~mmeiss/sceptre/
It consists of a base unit that's somewhere around 13" x 11" x 4",
connected to a (fairly wretched) chicklet keyboard with a standard
4-conductor telephone handset cord. The keyboard is powered by a
9-volt battery. On the back of the main unit are connectors for
power, the keyboard, RS-232C (DB-25 female), composite video out, and
audio out.
I've yet to crack the case, but based on a few scraps of information
I've seen, I think the CPU may be an 8085 -- clocked at what speed, I
don't know. The thing first retailed in 1983 for $900, soon cut down
to $600.
I use a USB<->RS232 dongle (they're cheap)
and talk to terminals with
my PC. I write code that generates the appropriate escape codes to
make the terminal do something interesting. You can also use a
terminal emulator program and have it talk to your terminal like its a
modem. I haven't needed any "null modem" cables in order for this to
work so far.
I've got a few USB<->RS232 dongles besides a few null modem cables and
a SmartCable -- unfortunately, the lot of them are in my garage and
not my office. It's just a matter of waiting until evening and the
chance to grab the proper equipment.
6:21 p.m.
In article <653a64ac0711201336l77651845t6750b388c34521fc at mail.gmail.com>,
"Mark Meiss" <chaosotter76 at gmail.com> writes:
Excellent!
It consists of a base unit that's somewhere around
13" x 11" x 4",
connected to a (fairly wretched) chicklet keyboard with a standard
4-conductor telephone handset cord. The keyboard is powered by a
9-volt battery.
Ack! Yes, the keyboard looks painful. I don't think they envisioned
that people would actually type on this thing, more like hunt & peck.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
7:43 p.m.
Richard wrote:
Ack! Yes, the keyboard looks painful. I don't
think they envisioned
that people would actually type on this thing, more like hunt & peck.
That has to be the 2nd worst keyboard I have seen. The 1st is any keyboard
with 'windows' keys. Considering Videotex was ment as information setup
it was more like press 1 to display ... 9 to return to menu type stuff.
Ben alias woodelf
9:50 p.m.
In article <47437F33.1040101 at jetnet.ab.ca>,
woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> writes:
That has to be the 2nd worst keyboard I have seen. The
1st is any keyboard
with 'windows' keys.
<rolls eyes>
Whatever, dude.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
21 Nov
21 Nov
9:36 a.m.
That has to be
the 2nd worst keyboard I have seen. The 1st is any keyboard
with 'windows' keys.
<rolls eyes>
Whatever, dude. 
10:15 a.m.
But see, it HAS to be bad if Microsoft does it. One
little key, and
the keyboard universe falls apart.
I believe the objection was its placement, not the presence of a
Windows-specific key. I've certainly had trouble adjusting to a Windows
keyboard after being used to not having anything between Ctrl and Alt.
Even Macs don't disturb that. Command is to the side of that group,
not splitting it up.
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2:44 p.m.
I believe the objection was its placement, not the
presence of a
Windows-specific key. I've certainly had trouble adjusting to a Windows
keyboard after being used to not having anything between Ctrl and Alt.
Even Macs don't disturb that. Command is to the side of that group,
not splitting it up.
It seems like the only people that complain about it are those that
are looking for something to complain about. Microsoft, what an easy
target...
--
Will, Mac user not having any problems typing this on a Windows keyboard
5:42 p.m.
But see, it HAS to be bad if Microsoft does it. One
little key, and
the keyboard universe falls apart.
I don't mind the Windows key (and it's presence is certainly welcome when running
an Amiga emulator as it instantly substitutes for the Amiga key). However, I do hate the
control key, as occasionally I hit it instead of the shift key (eg. when trying to type a
capital letter) and activate an unintentional short-cut :(
Infact, the only Windows short-cut I use are the cut, copy and paste ones.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
5:01 a.m.
On Wednesday 21 November 2007 00:43:31 woodelf wrote:
Richard wrote:
You don't find having a few spare "META" keys handy? I do...
Gordon
Ack! Yes, the keyboard looks painful. I
don't think they envisioned
that people would actually type on this thing, more like hunt & peck.
That has to be the 2nd worst keyboard I have seen. The 1st is any keyboard
with 'windows' keys. 
20 Nov
20 Nov
9:31 p.m.
On Nov 20, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Meiss wrote:
It consists of a base unit that's somewhere around
13" x 11" x 4",
connected to a (fairly wretched) chicklet keyboard with a standard
4-conductor telephone handset cord. The keyboard is powered by a
9-volt battery. On the back of the main unit are connectors for
power, the keyboard, RS-232C (DB-25 female), composite video out, and
audio out.
I had an AT&T SCEPTER terminal that was used with the Gateway service
offered in Southern California from Times-Mirror/Pacific Telephone.
It had a 1200 baud Bell 212-style modem built in. Also, the keyboard
was infrared on the model I had.
Here is a modern picture of it sitting on my TV, where it worked as a
terminal to my Linux box. http://pics.feedle.net/v/Things/ATT_Sceptre01.jpg.html
. The person who mentioned 1200/7E1 is dead on: the serial port on
the machine (for whatever reason) requires 7 bits, even parity, one
stop. It can't handle baud rates much over 1200 baud: at 9600, for
example, it loses characters.
Somewhere, I even had the original instruction/setup guide, but that
may have been lost to the sands of time.
NAPLS is a pain-in-the-ass protocol to deal with, BTW.
Gateway was a killer service back in 1983. It was expensive, but it
was a lot of fun. And I remember dialing up BBSes with the SCEPTER
terminal when my C-64's power supply crapped out...
4:47 p.m.
On Nov 20, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Meiss wrote:
Mark,
That pic is ultratec portable TDD, awesome unit, run long on
batteries and keyboard even it is cliclet, it's not too bad to type
on!
One weakness on these is orange multiconductor ribbon cracks from so
much flexing through 180 degrees of motion around the hinge in
middle, my advice: keep it open forever, close it rarely.
Owner of little bitty ultratec TDD with broken ribbon, someday I'll
fashion new one.
Cheers, Wizard
9:53 p.m.
In article <7BB24FE4-710A-4B31-8642-E41D30DB4410 at feedle.net>,
"C. Sullivan" <feedle at feedle.net> writes:
stop. It can't handle baud rates much over 1200
baud: at 9600, for
example, it loses characters.
In the 1979/1980 time frame we were overjoyed at the introduction of
1200 leased line modems connecting our terminals to the PDP-11/70
across town. I was the one who discovered that they would operate
perfectly at 1800 baud -- a 50% increase! The lines were only rated
for 1200.
NAPLS is a pain-in-the-ass protocol to deal with, BTW.
These days you'd just do it in ROM code in a microprocessor and while
the details of the protocol may be tedious, I'm sure even something
like a lowly PIC microcontroller could keep up with it at 1200 baud.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
21 Nov
21 Nov
11:14 a.m.
On Nov 20, 2007 9:31 PM, C. Sullivan <feedle at feedle.net> wrote:
. The person who mentioned 1200/7E1 is dead on: the serial port on
the machine (for whatever reason) requires 7 bits, even parity, one
stop. It can't handle baud rates much over 1200 baud: at 9600, for
example, it loses characters.
Somewhere, I even had the original instruction/setup guide, but that
may have been lost to the sands of time.
NAPLS is a pain-in-the-ass protocol to deal with, BTW.
Well, I've now got Telix happily chatting back and forth with the
thing using 1200/7E1, and all seems to be well, except that I can't
seem to get it to display NAPLPS-encoded data. Supposedly, ESC % A
should be the sequence for entering NAPLPS mode, but I seem to get
silent disposal of the ESC character and an echoed % A sequence
instead. It must not start up in a mode where it's prepared to hear
the escape sequences.
2:09 p.m.
On Nov 20, 2007 4:36 PM, Mark Meiss <chaosotter76 at gmail.com> wrote:
I've yet to crack the case, but based on a few scraps of information
I've seen, I think the CPU may be an 8085 -- clocked at what speed, I
don't know. The thing first retailed in 1983 for $900, soon cut down
to $600.
As a follow-up to myself, the case has been cracked -- it's got an
8088 for the processor, with a 6845 for video output. Unfortunately,
despite my attempted gentle touch, video output has gone out for the
time being. It looks like a repair job for the weekend -- shouldn't
be too difficult; the boards are easy to trace and everything is
socketed or thru-hole.
Interestingly, the ROMs are labeled as being from 3/85 rather than
1983, and there's an indication that the system may have been upgraded
for 4800 bps operation.
6122
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20 comments
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