27 May
2014
27 May
'14
10:28 a.m.
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:00 AM, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote:
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 00:05:43 -0700
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Catch and Halt Fire - Drama set in early days of personal
computing
Message-ID: <53843947.3090006 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 5/26/2014 11:03 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
Yes, I remember the early 1980s and working in a small shop that did
primarily what we would now call embedded systems with 6800
microprocessors, but also some larger business systems based on
minicomputers. We had a very attractive young woman who did programming on
the business stuff, and we insensitive males referred to her (out of her
earshot) as "software". She dressed well, she was sweet and friendly (and
obviously, tolerant!) and she could code.
Back further, in the 1970s there was a young woman in my FORTRAN class I
dated briefly. She was also on the high school swim team, and I started
attending meets. :-)
Yes, things were more gender-imbalanced than they are today, but making any
gender-based assumptions (appearance, fashion sense, etc.) about the women
who *were* involved in the industry is not particularly useful, meaningful
or accurate. As I remember things....
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS
Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School
University of Washington
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Josh Dersch
<derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
*actually*
Yes, it's insane to think that someone could
be intelligent *and* female
*and* have fashion sense at the same time.
God forbid, especially in this industry.
I'm reasonably certain that Sellam was talking about how things were back in the early 1980s, not how they should
have been, or how they
might be now, or how we might want the early 1980s portrayed in 21st
century television programs.
I've no doubt that women were in the minority in the computer biz in the
1980s (as they remain today). I do take umbrage with Sellam's
supposition that there were no women at all with technical knowledge (or
if there were, they were all apparently ugly) -- this is demonstrably
untrue and it seems an odd point to bring up as a criticism of the show
(I mean, it has so many other flaws that he didn't even see, since he
admits to only watching 3 minutes of it...). Were there are lot of
women in the industry? No. Does the show have a woman in it? Yep. Is
this particularly unrealistic? Nah.
(Really, I'd like to give the show a chance; I feel like I'm
experiencing what every doctor or lawyer goes through when watching a
medical or legal drama on TV or in the theater...)
At any rate, just me spouting off my mouth when I ought best have said
nothing at all :).
- Josh
As with most generalizations, perhaps Sellam's wasn't 100% accurate, but
it
was damn close. Unfortunately.
27 May
27 May
11:36 a.m.
On 05/27/2014 10:28 AM, Ian S. King wrote:
Yes, I remember the early 1980s and working in a small
shop that did
primarily what we would now call embedded systems with 6800
microprocessors, but also some larger business systems based on
minicomputers. We had a very attractive young woman who did programming on
the business stuff, and we insensitive males referred to her (out of her
earshot) as "software". She dressed well, she was sweet and friendly (and
obviously, tolerant!) and she could code.
Based on my own experience, the gender distribution in software was
greatly influenced by the software context. Operating system software
(the stuff written in assembly to make the hardware do its tricks) was
strongly male-dominated.
Applications software generally employed a larger proportion of females,
until you got to the business software, where, in my experience, the
area was dominated by female programmers.
Now, during the period that this film seems to cover, my employment was
with the hardware manufacturers not with the users or software houses.
So my mileage certainly varies.
--Chuck
12:10 p.m.
In article <CAKtEJ039ZfaEy3eae2GU+GaTQnF10jRk2bMXbo45dzFWORKL-g at mail.gmail.com>,
"Ian S. King" <isking at uw.edu> writes:
Yes, things were more gender-imbalanced than they are
today, but making any
gender-based assumptions (appearance, fashion sense, etc.) about the women
who *were* involved in the industry is not particularly useful, meaningful
or accurate. As I remember things....
Ditto for my experiences from 1978 onwards.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
12:14 p.m.
On 27/05/2014 18:28, Ian S. King wrote:
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:00 AM, <cctalk-request
at classiccmp.org> wrote:
In 1970's I was a Systems Programmer at an Insurance Company. I well
remember one of our female programmers confessing that she had woken up
in the early hours and had one of those Eureka moments about her
current programming problems. She continued to say she had to stop
herself waking her husband and telling him about it... He wasn't a
programmer...
Dave
G4UGM
--
Dave
G4UGM
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 00:05:43 -0700
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Catch and Halt Fire - Drama set in early days of personal
computing
Message-ID: <53843947.3090006 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 5/26/2014 11:03 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
Yes, I remember the early 1980s and working in a small shop that did
primarily what we would now call embedded systems with 6800
microprocessors, but also some larger business systems based on
minicomputers. We had a very attractive young woman who did programming on
the business stuff, and we insensitive males referred to her (out of her
earshot) as "software". She dressed well, she was sweet and friendly (and
obviously, tolerant!) and she could code.
Back further, in the 1970s there was a young woman in my FORTRAN class I
dated briefly. She was also on the high school swim team, and I started
attending meets. :-)
Yes, things were more gender-imbalanced than they are today, but making any
gender-based assumptions (appearance, fashion sense, etc.) about the women
who *were* involved in the industry is not particularly useful, meaningful
or accurate. As I remember things.... On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Josh Dersch
<derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
*actually*
Yes, it's insane to think that someone could
be intelligent *and* female
*and* have fashion sense at the same time.
God forbid, especially in this industry.
I'm reasonably certain that Sellam
was talking about how things were back in the early 1980s, not how they should
have been, or how they
might be now, or how we might want the early 1980s portrayed in 21st
century television programs.
I've no doubt that women were in the minority in
the computer biz in the
1980s (as they remain today). I do take umbrage with Sellam's
supposition that there were no women at all with technical knowledge (or
if there were, they were all apparently ugly) -- this is demonstrably
untrue and it seems an odd point to bring up as a criticism of the show
(I mean, it has so many other flaws that he didn't even see, since he
admits to only watching 3 minutes of it...). Were there are lot of
women in the industry? No. Does the show have a woman in it? Yep. Is
this particularly unrealistic? Nah.
(Really, I'd like to give the show a chance; I feel like I'm
experiencing what every doctor or lawyer goes through when watching a
medical or legal drama on TV or in the theater...)
At any rate, just me spouting off my mouth when I ought best have said
nothing at all :).
- Josh
As with most generalizations, perhaps
Sellam's wasn't 100% accurate, but
it
was damn close. Unfortunately.
3645
days inactive
3645
days old
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participants (4)
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cclist＠sydex.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
isking＠uw.edu -
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