4 Oct
2016
4 Oct
'16
12:49 a.m.
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating foam
improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff
and clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
I'd like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
Rod
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4 Oct
4 Oct
1:10 a.m.
I could scan a fiche in about 10 min with an Epson transparency
scanner. I think Al may have an actual digitizer but they are expensive.
As to the fiche reader you got, I've never seen one with a plastic
carrier. They always had glass in my case.
On the one I have you can pop out the view screen, and the lens is about
the size of a small microscope objective. Mine came with one for fiche,
and one for aperture cards. The lenses were easy to slide out and swap.
See if you find one for the scale you need for DEC on epay maybe? I am
glad you have the magnification value, I've only had ones which were
multiples of a base size, so 1x, 1.2x etc.
The Epson I mentioned has the XP era driver to allow their software to
create a template for scanning. Once you have identified the size of a
page on the media, I found it easy to just move it to plop over top of
each of the other images, then could scan the fiche as fast as the
scanner could run.
It was one of their Precision models which could do 5.7 transparancies.
I created a small guide to position the fiche itself in the same spot,
so I only had to build up the template once.
Thanks
Jim
On 10/3/2016 9:49 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff
and clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
--
Note change in email address. Please use reply-to
address. TWC is changing their email and this may
change again reply to is jwsmail at jwsss.com
11:02 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating foam
improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
This is not at all unusual. I do have a stock of microfilm reader
lenses, if we can figure out who actually built the reader and which lens
it takes. Is there a name or model on the lens or reader (other than DEC)?
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff and
clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
Thin plastic is really unusual here because of the tendency to melt under
the heat of the lamp.
I'd like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
This is exactly what my company does (and my previous, now defunct,
employer as well). I have dedicated microfiche and microfilm scanners.
The problem I ran into when trying to scan my DEC microfiche collection was
that the fiche themselves were of very poor quality. Badly scratched and
scuffed, and poor quality duplicates.
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive. He's not
kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a low end, heavily
used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the lowest end. Flatbed
photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but also slower. However,
with some scripting and tools like the ImageMagick library, you can scan an
entire fiche in one pass, then slice up the image into individual pages
accordingly.
--Shaun Halstead
MSI Tech Services, LLC
11:28 a.m.
On 04/10/2016 16:02, Shaun Halstead wrote:
On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Thank you for your kind reply
Reader is:
MICROFICHE READER MODEL SC01-E
SERIAL NO. 4573
MAGNIFICATION 42x
VISIDYNE INC BURLINGTON MA USA
UK model (yes I'm in the UK)
230 VOLTS AC 50/60Hz .75 AMPS
Only Hi res setting works.
Using my home made but clean fiche holder the few fiches I looked at
seemed OK.
When adjusted for sharp focus the text was clear but a bit small.
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating foam
improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
This is not at all unusual. I do have a stock of microfilm reader
lenses, if we can figure out who actually built the reader and which lens
it takes. Is there a name or model on the lens or reader (other than DEC)?
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting
of two sheets of stiff and
clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
Thin plastic is really unusual here because of the tendency to melt under
the heat of the lamp.
I'd like to work to-wards scanning all of the
library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
This is exactly what my company does (and my previous, now defunct,
employer as well). I have dedicated microfiche and microfilm scanners.
The problem I ran into when trying to scan my DEC microfiche collection was
that the fiche themselves were of very poor quality. Badly scratched and
scuffed, and poor quality duplicates.
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive. He's not
kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a low end, heavily
used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the lowest end. Flatbed
photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but also slower. However,
with some scripting and tools like the ImageMagick library, you can scan an
entire fiche in one pass, then slice up the image into individual pages
accordingly.
--Shaun Halstead
MSI Tech Services, LLC 
11:53 a.m.
> Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm
scanners are expensive.
> He's not kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a
> low end, heavily used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the
> lowest end. Flatbed photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but
> also slower. However, with some scripting and tools like the
> ImageMagick library, you can scan an entire fiche in one pass, then
> slice up the image into individual pages accordingly.
>
Rod,
I have an old(ish) scanner that will scan negatives. Not sure if it will scan you Fiche.
How big are they?
Dave Wade
Manchester
UK
--Shaun
Halstead
MSI Tech Services, LLC
Thank you for your kind reply
Reader is:
MICROFICHE READER MODEL SC01-E
SERIAL NO. 4573
MAGNIFICATION 42x
VISIDYNE INC BURLINGTON MA USA
UK model (yes I'm in the UK)
230 VOLTS AC 50/60Hz .75 AMPS
Only Hi res setting works.
Using my home made but clean fiche holder the few fiches I looked at
seemed OK.
When adjusted for sharp focus the text was clear but a bit small.
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
5 Oct
5 Oct
1:48 a.m.
On 04/10/2016 16:53, Dave Wade wrote:
I have been doing some searching on the
web.
There seem to be some Epson (Perfection range) that could scan fiche
Epson Perfection V800 Photo A4 Flatbed Scanner
* Scans Everything - slides, film, medium format & print
* Dual Lens System - swaps between 6400dpi (for slides and film) and
4800dpi (for photos)
* Removes Imperfections - digital ICE Technologies cleans-up old film
and photos
* Dynamic Range - accuratly reproduce tonal range and gradation of the
original
* Quick Start - warms-up in less than one second
Suitable for DEC 52x Fiche Scanning ?
Rod
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
> Jim
mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive.
> He's not kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a
> low end, heavily used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the
> lowest end. Flatbed photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but
> also slower. However, with some scripting and tools like the
> ImageMagick library, you can scan an entire fiche in one pass, then
> slice up the image into individual pages accordingly.
>
Rod,
I have an old(ish) scanner that will scan negatives. Not sure if it will scan you Fiche.
How big are they?
Dave Wade
Manchester
UK
--Shaun
Halstead
MSI Tech Services, LLC
Thank you for your kind reply
Reader is:
MICROFICHE READER MODEL SC01-E
SERIAL NO. 4573
MAGNIFICATION 42x
VISIDYNE INC BURLINGTON MA USA
UK model (yes I'm in the UK)
230 VOLTS AC 50/60Hz .75 AMPS
Only Hi res setting works.
Using my home made but clean fiche holder the few fiches I looked at
seemed OK.
When adjusted for sharp focus the text was clear but a bit small.
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now 
4:13 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:48 PM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Epson Perfection V800 Photo A4 Flatbed Scanner
* Dual Lens System - swaps between 6400dpi (for slides and film) and
4800dpi (for photos)
Suitable for DEC 52x Fiche Scanning ?
If you wanted to scan 52x fiche at an effective resolution of 200dpi
("fine" fax quality, which isn't actually "fine" IMHO), you need
10400
dpi. 6400 dpi gets you effective 123 dpi, which might not be
completely useless, but certainly wouldn't be very good.
7:22 a.m.
On 05/10/2016 09:13, Eric Smith wrote:
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:48 PM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Ah.. Good some numbers to work to.
It helps identify two methods:
Scan fiche as is:
Magnify and photograph.
In fact modern cameras are like a hi res TV system.
Rod
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
Epson Perfection V800 Photo A4 Flatbed Scanner
* Dual Lens System - swaps between 6400dpi (for slides and film) and
4800dpi (for photos)
Suitable for DEC 52x Fiche Scanning ?
If you wanted to scan 52x fiche at an
effective resolution of 200dpi
("fine" fax quality, which isn't actually "fine" IMHO), you need
10400
dpi. 6400 dpi gets you effective 123 dpi, which might not be
completely useless, but certainly wouldn't be very good.
8:43 a.m.
This is the one I have. It may be overkill because I think it goes to 8
x 10 transparency.
A 5x7 format scanner will work just as well for fiche. If you plan to
do aperture cards, you will need a longer dimension that 7" to cover
that. The Epson 4990 apparently has that.
i looked forward and saw Jorg's posting as well. If you find a good
fiche reader that may work. Your current reader may work if you can get
the image quality up enough.
Here is one fiche I scanned, a WW2 unit war diary. It was done with the
V800 scanner you mention and my method of a previous post. I think the
results are pretty good.
thanks
Jim
http://vpb208.org/diary/fiche1/page_01.htm
On 10/4/2016 10:48 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 04/10/2016 16:53, Dave Wade wrote:
I have been doing some searching on the
web.
There seem to be some Epson (Perfection range) that could scan fiche
Epson Perfection V800 Photo A4 Flatbed Scanner
* Scans Everything - slides, film, medium format & print
* Dual Lens System - swaps between 6400dpi (for slides and film) and
4800dpi (for photos)
* Removes Imperfections - digital ICE Technologies cleans-up old film
and photos
* Dynamic Range - accuratly reproduce tonal range and gradation of the
original
* Quick Start - warms-up in less than one second
Suitable for DEC 52x Fiche Scanning ?
Rod
--
Note change in email address. Please use reply-to
address. TWC is changing their email and this may
change again reply to is jwsmail at jwsss.com
>
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive.
> He's not kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a
> low end, heavily used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the
> lowest end. Flatbed photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but
> also slower. However, with some scripting and tools like the
> ImageMagick library, you can scan an entire fiche in one pass, then
> slice up the image into individual pages accordingly.
>
Rod,
I have an old(ish) scanner that will scan negatives. Not sure if it
will scan you Fiche. How big are they?
Dave Wade
Manchester
UK
--Shaun
Halstead
MSI Tech Services, LLC
Thank you for your kind reply
Reader is:
MICROFICHE READER MODEL SC01-E
SERIAL NO. 4573
MAGNIFICATION 42x
VISIDYNE INC BURLINGTON MA USA
UK model (yes I'm in the UK)
230 VOLTS AC 50/60Hz .75 AMPS
Only Hi res setting works.
Using my home made but clean fiche holder the few fiches I looked at
seemed OK.
When adjusted for sharp focus the text was clear but a bit small.
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
11:37 a.m.
On 05/10/2016 16:05, Al Kossow wrote:
On 10/4/16 10:48 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Well its not so much scan to start with but I'd like to be able to read
some fiches.
A 52x fiche on a 42x reader is a bit of a strain. However pre-1989 I
was involved
in some work involving 8 x 10 sheets of micro filmed documents.
Best answer then. Manual movement of the carrier and a foot switch to
capture.
Rod
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
I have been doing some searching on the web.
There seem to be some Epson (Perfection range) that could scan fiche
How many lifetimes do you have allocated for the project?
4 Oct
4 Oct
12:16 p.m.
On 10/4/16 8:02 AM, Shaun Halstead wrote:
many people have jousted at this particular windmill
this is a huge time-consuming project
I have literally thousands of sheets of DEC fiche from multiple sources
scanning at that kind of volume doesn't scale. you have to clean an qc every sheet
even with a production scanner. It took me most of a day to do the little bit of xxdp
fiche a couple of weeks ago on a manual positioning Canon microfilm/microfiche scanner
at CHM
I just bought another high-end scanner, which isn't running yet. It uses glass
carriers
for each sheet and I have about 6 carriers.
I was hoping it could handle IBM punched-card sized fiche, but I've not been able to
find a carrier that big. I have a rather large backlog of those as well.
I'd like
to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
This is exactly what my company does (and my previous, now defunct,
employer as well). I have dedicated microfiche and microfilm scanners.
The problem I ran into when trying to scan my DEC microfiche collection was
that the fiche themselves were of very poor quality. Badly scratched and
scuffed, and poor quality duplicates.
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive. He's not
kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a low end, heavily
used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the lowest end. Flatbed
photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but also slower. However,
with some scripting and tools like the ImageMagick library, you can scan an
entire fiche in one pass, then slice up the image into individual pages
accordingly.
12:38 p.m.
On 04/10/2016 17:16, Al Kossow wrote:
On 10/4/16 8:02 AM, Shaun Halstead wrote:
many people have jousted at this particular windmill
this is a huge time-consuming project
I have literally thousands of sheets of DEC fiche from multiple sources
scanning at that kind of volume doesn't scale. you have to clean an qc every sheet
even with a production scanner. It took me most of a day to do the little bit of xxdp
fiche a couple of weeks ago on a manual positioning Canon microfilm/microfiche scanner
at CHM
I just bought another high-end scanner, which isn't running yet. It uses glass
carriers
for each sheet and I have about 6 carriers.
I was hoping it could handle IBM punched-card sized fiche, but I've not been able to
find a carrier that big. I have a rather large backlog of those as well.
Not a surprise.
I have a box; fiche size front and about two feet deep marked xxdp.
Perhaps we could avoid duplication of effort by knowing whats already
been scanned.
The other issue is access to the scanned data.
I'm sure there are hardware hounds out there who could come up with cost
effective way to scan DEC 52x fiches.
Rod
--
*PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now*
I'd
like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
This is exactly what my company does (and my previous, now defunct,
employer as well). I have dedicated microfiche and microfilm scanners.
The problem I ran into when trying to scan my DEC microfiche collection was
that the fiche themselves were of very poor quality. Badly scratched and
scuffed, and poor quality duplicates.
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive. He's not
kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a low end, heavily
used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the lowest end. Flatbed
photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but also slower. However,
with some scripting and tools like the ImageMagick library, you can scan an
entire fiche in one pass, then slice up the image into individual pages
accordingly.
1:25 p.m.
If you look in the cctlk archives there was work done on this in the recent past
http://www.retrocmp.com/tools/pdp-11-diagnostic-database
seems to be a pointer to many sources
On 10/4/16 9:38 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 04/10/2016 17:16, Al Kossow wrote:
On 10/4/16 8:02 AM, Shaun Halstead wrote:
many people have jousted at this particular windmill
this is a huge time-consuming project
I have literally thousands of sheets of DEC fiche from multiple sources
scanning at that kind of volume doesn't scale. you have to clean an qc every sheet
even with a production scanner. It took me most of a day to do the little bit of xxdp
fiche a couple of weeks ago on a manual positioning Canon microfilm/microfiche scanner
at CHM
I just bought another high-end scanner, which isn't running yet. It uses glass
carriers
for each sheet and I have about 6 carriers.
I was hoping it could handle IBM punched-card sized fiche, but I've not been able to
find a carrier that big. I have a rather large backlog of those as well.
Not a surprise.
I have a box; fiche size front and about two feet deep marked xxdp.
Perhaps we could avoid duplication of effort by knowing whats already been scanned.
The other issue is access to the scanned data.
I'm sure there are hardware hounds out there who could come up with cost effective
way to scan DEC 52x fiches.
Rod
I'd
like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
This is exactly what my company does (and my previous, now defunct,
employer as well). I have dedicated microfiche and microfilm scanners.
The problem I ran into when trying to scan my DEC microfiche collection was
that the fiche themselves were of very poor quality. Badly scratched and
scuffed, and poor quality duplicates.
Jim mentioned that dedicated microfilm scanners are expensive. He's not
kidding. Used machines tend to start around $5k USD for a low end, heavily
used scanner. New machines are generally $30k at the lowest end. Flatbed
photographic film scanners are much cheaper, but also slower. However,
with some scripting and tools like the ImageMagick library, you can scan an
entire fiche in one pass, then slice up the image into individual pages
accordingly.
5 Oct
5 Oct
4:16 a.m.
Hi,
you surely found it on the web already, but if not:
Two years ago I build an own scanning rig and scanned 50000+ pages of
XXDP listings.
The problem of enhancing very bad fiches is also addressed with an
expensive "Filter Chain".
http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches
Joerg
Am 04.10.2016 um 06:49 schrieb Rod Smallwood:
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating foam
improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff
and clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
I'd like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
Rod
7:09 a.m.
On 05/10/2016 09:16, J?rg Hoppe wrote:
Hi,
you surely found it on the web already, but if not:
Two years ago I build an own scanning rig and scanned 50000+ pages of
XXDP listings.
The problem of enhancing very bad fiches is also addressed with an
expensive "Filter Chain".
http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches
Joerg
Am 04.10.2016 um 06:49 schrieb Rod Smallwood:
Thanks Joerg
Very interesting - My camera is a Nikon D50 and doing that to it would
not do it any good!
My first stage is to over come the fact that the fiches are 52x and the
reader is 42x.
Rod
--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating
foam improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff
and clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
I'd like to work to-wards scanning all of the library into a system.
Anybody know anything about fiche scanners.
Rod
9:47 a.m.
On 2016-10-04 06:49, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
Just a stupid question, as we are on the microfiche again ;-)
Is there no "modern" format of TIFF or similar, which could save the
whole microfiche as one picture?
Would save all the effort of cutting, positioning of the pages. And, I
know of some fiches, which have drawings on them, which go bigger than
the standard page ...
1:10 p.m.
On Wed, 5 Oct 2016, Al Kossow wrote:
There are very few imaging programs that can handle an
image that large.
You run into this with scans of blueprints.
There you have TWO size issues. The original may have enormous physical
dimensions.
A well chosen image format shouldn't have much problem with file size,
since the blueprint ia all B&W single bit, made up of line segments and
text. An uncompressed bitmap would be ridiculously large, but some format
to store the text and positions, and the line segments should be able to
bring it down to very manageable size.
1:21 p.m.
On Oct 5, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at
xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2016, Al Kossow wrote:
That's true, but Al was talking about programs processing those images. While the
file may be compressed, when opened and read into memory the full uncompressed image is
generated. And it might well be a byte per pixel even for B&W images, because that
makes the code simpler and much faster. That said, images in the 100 megapixel range are
not much trouble for modern computers. Lots of gigapixels, that might be different.
paul
There are very few imaging programs that can
handle an image that large.
You run into this with scans of blueprints.
There you have TWO size issues. The original may have enormous physical dimensions.
A well chosen image format shouldn't have much problem with file size, since the
blueprint ia all B&W single bit, made up of line segments and text. An uncompressed
bitmap would be ridiculously large, but some format to store the text and positions, and
the line segments should be able to bring it down to very manageable size. 
12 Oct
12 Oct
3:46 p.m.
On 04/10/16 05:49, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi All
I have just had a huge DEC Miro Fiche library given to me.
It has the portable (weighs a ton) reader with it.
On trying it out. I found the results were awful.
A good clean of the light path and removal of some disintegrating foam
improved things no end.
That left two issues:
1. The reader was for x 42 but the fiches are x52.
2. The plastic fiche holder consisting of two sheets of stiff
and clear plastic connected together at one end is scratched to hell.
Any idea eactly which fiche reader you have? I have one that DEC FS used
to lug around on site visits.
I'll dig it out tomorrow (if I remember) and make a note of exactly
which one I have.
I've never noticed an issue with reading the fiche I have - but then
most of my fiche came with the reader and so
obviously matched up. But I do have some fiche that came to me
separately (not all DEC fiche, but all DEC-related)
and that all looks good too.
How can you tell whether fiche is intended for 42x or 52x or whatever?
(I had a quick look at one or two and I couldn't
see anythig obvious ...)
BTW: I did semi-catalogue what I have (i.e. listing the fiche part
number and the documents contained therein).
Has anyone thought of putting together some sort of registry?
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
2874
days inactive
2882
days old
20 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
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a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
aek＠bitsavers.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
j_hoppe＠t-online.de -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
shaunhalstead＠gmail.com -
spacewar＠gmail.com