19 Oct
2011
19 Oct
'11
12:10 a.m.
On 10/18/2011 11:16 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
Let's see. I don't use it, nobody I know uses it, nobody I work for
now uses it, nobody I've ever worked for (save for a few suits who raped
the companies) has used it...
Then I've been involved in it for a bit longer than you have, from
the CP/M days, probably not enough of a difference to be particularly
meaningful.
Ah-HA. This may explain the difference in what we see.
I assume that by "business computing" you mean bunches of suits
shuffling papers around, making faces at each other across conference
tables, all while randomly mentioning products like "Excel" and names
like "Bloomberg" and "Kiewit" to try to make themselves sound cool.
Please note well that, while I do firmly believe that you're an
asshole of epic proportions, what I said in the previous paragraph is
not intended to disparage YOU in any way, shape, or form.
Anyway, I work exclusively in technical computing. Always have. Now
I'm thinking that this may be a "different worlds" kind of thing.
So my beef with you, then, wouldn't be a matter of "this prick
doesn't know what he's talking about", but more a matter of "this prick
thinks the whole data processing world is exactly like the little corner
of it that HE works in".
(and I might, maybe, just be guilty of the same thing!)
My view of that side of "computing" is that it's common to tolerate
crappy tools. I don't understand that mindset, but then, I'm very
intolerant of crappy tools
I assert that it's unprofessional (but not commonly viewed as such)
to NOT tell people when they're being idiots.
In this crowd of mostly people who don't work in this industry? I
couldn't care less. Nobody here is hiring. (well, almost nobody, but
I'm not moving again! ;))
Flame away if you like, but bear in mind that it makes
you look
stupid and seem immature.
Maybe even as stupid and immature as calling anyone who disagrees
with you "unprofessional". Don't start a fight and not expect
to...well, get a fight.
You've
misidentified the causality graph here. I don't say
Microsoft sucks because I dislike it, I dislike it because it
sucks. When they create a viable product, I will use it, recommend
it, and sell it. In the past, when they did, I did. I am getting
a little tired of having to explain that to people who snap and
snarl without listening first.
*I* dislike it because it sucks, too. Our opinions have little
bearing on the continents-full of people using it, though. You also seem
to think that I am somehow fantasizing and/or
imagining how things work in this industry, rather than actually
working here and getting paid for my expertise. While there are
plenty of people on this list for whom that's true, as this list is
a community of hobbyists, I assure you that's not the case here.
I work in the field every day and have watched the rise of MICROS~1
since my getting into the industry in 1988; before that, I watched
from the sidelines from around the time of the introduction of the
IBM PC, which is, coincidentally, about the time I got interested in
computers and computing. I mean, shit,
you act like you think I've never seen the inside of
an office before, any office, least of all a technical one. That's
ironic, because while it's rather far from the truth, it sure is
how YOU come off.
[Shrug] No skin off my nose, but I'm working in the business
computing world still and I know what it's like. You don't seem to. Great way to grow and learn, that. Block out anyone
who corrects
you. Let us know how you get on with that, won't you?
Likewise. I haven't kill-filed you yet, I felt bad after flaming you
so hard. I felt even worse after coming to the realization that I
started typing about in the above paragraph. I still think you're an
asshole, but I think we may be talking about two very different parts of
the world. IF that's the case, then we were both wrong to make the
assertions we made.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, much of the technical world
that *I* work in doesn't use Windows, and never really has. The people
that did are dropping it left and right, as tools become available for
non-proprietary OSs. I got a new (awesome) job about two weeks ago at a
company that develops automation and embedded systems stuff, and in the
entire company there is precisely ONE computer running Windows...and
that one will likely be ditched before long.
And of course
you know I can't let this part go. You assert that
my attitude is "unprofessional" because I don't simply obey the
magazine ads or the nontechnical people making technical decisions,
and instead get paid to make technical recommendations for
technical things based on real technical observations and technical
experience? That's just absurd.
No, not at all. I assert that it's unprofessional to go around
calling people arseholes and liars and idiots. Or swearing all the time.
Oh good heavens.
Or claiming that tools used by more people than live
in your
entire country are useless rubbish.
Those particular tools ARE. And, really? 350 MILLION people run
Windows? Did you get that straight from Microsoft?
One other interesting thing is your assertion that non-Windows people
tend to be "prima donna" types. I agree with this, but once again you
got the causality relationship wrong. People who are overly anal about
quality, "right tool for the job", etc are often viewed as prima donnas.
(and rightfully so!) For THAT VERY REASON, they tend not to run Windows.
Or claiming that the former
richest corporation in the world, owned and run by the former richest
man in the world, are incompetents.
Wait, you've GOT to be an American. Are you really claiming that
having money implies technical competence, or otherwise defines the
intrinsic value of a person or company in other than financial terms?
Seriously?
So all someone has to do to be competent in your eyes is go out and
rob a bank, no matter how stupid they may be? You said yourself that
company is a bunch of crooks. (paraphrased)
In fact,
that's the very ESSENCE of professionalism. Anything less
is fanboy ass-kissing. I've been a good plumber for as long as
you've been breathing, and you're trying to tell me what kind of
pipes the world uses. Ha! *plonk*
So tell me, top-quoting boy, how do you feel this enhances your
reputation for professionalism, skill and knowledge? :?) I'm not offended and it doesn't really matter
to me if you read this
or don't, but man, you really need to "take a chill pill" and calm
down and learn to accept what you can't change.
"What I can't change", riiiight. Now you're trolling.
And as far as chill pills, I seem to recall your being the one who
burst out flaming and screaming today, throwing around insults like a
spoiled little shit.
You change people's minds by showing them that you
understand them
and then gradually leading them in the direction of better tools,
methods and practices, not by shouting at them and calling them
idiots.
And once again you misunderstand. I'm not trying to change anyone's
mind. Here? On THIS list, for free? Are you kidding? I have bills to
pay and work to do, and I use the very best tools that I've found in my
time of doing this. Sometimes, when I'm asked for help, or when I'm
paid for it, I help others use good tools.
And I'm certainly not trying to convince YOU, because you're
obviously the second biggest Microsoft devotee on this list. Your
occasional "I hate it too" crap doesn't fool anyone, because in the very
next breath you sing its praises and proclaim that it's the only thing
the world REALLY uses, and everyone else is deluded or something. Come
ON, man.
But please do consider what I typed above, about technical vs.
business computing etc etc. All assholeness aside, on both your part
and mine, that may be the reason why we have such different views on the
FACTS (not opinions) of the industry.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
New Kensington, PA