Logic Analysers

Different strokes for different folks. I've only used a logic analyzer once and even for that I found it cumbersome and inadequate. I needed it to solve a sequential problem that had a lot of time sequential actions. Things like is does this, then this, then that. Ignore it and restart if it does this and then something else. I find that I can work faster with a 'scope. If I have issues with something not of the bus or processor, most things have EPROMs and I write test code. Most logic analyzers are not real good at showing voltages. Contention on a bus may be missed. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 7:27:07 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Logic Analysers On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote: Yes, subject to the following unlikely cases : 1) There is a standing wave developed between the pins. Technically that trace is a transmission line. I have never heard it happen between ICs next to each other at 8-bit micro speeds though. 2) There is a bad connection (IC socket?) on one of the pins 3) If you have a very fast logic analyser you might be able to see the propagation delay as the signal gets to each pin (remember a foot is about a nanosecond. So you are talking 10s of picoseconds delay). You will not see that with the sort of analyser you or I have :-) If you try your test with 4 of your logic analyser channels on the A4 pins of the EPROMs, I assume you get different traces for each channel -- that is what you are commenting on. What happens if you swap the logic analyser channels round? Incidentally, I'd better comment on the Logic Analysers I use. I use them a lot more than a 'scope, but that's because of what I generally need to do. 1) (Is is an LA?) The HP LogicDart. 3 Channels, 100MHz. No external clock facility. But it is pocket sized. HP called it the 'advanced logic proble' and that's really what it is. A better version of the blinking-light probe I used to use. Great for checking clocks, power supply voltages (it has a voltmeter function), serial data streams, etc. Normally the first instrument I grab for an unknown logic problem just to eliminate the 'sillies' 2) An old Gould-Biomation K100D. 16 channels 100MHz. with external clocking. I do have the 32 channel adapter for it which can only work with an external clock. This was my first LA and I still have a soft spot for it. 3) An HP1630. I forget which one, probably a 1630G. It does all I want. I was also AFAIK the last HP LA to have a proper component-level service manual. It's also a classic computer in its own right (6809 + 6829 MMU). Oddly the CRT is scanned vertically, I have no idea why. -tony