14 Apr
2013
14 Apr
'13
5:54 a.m.
On Apr 14, 2013, at 7:22, "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
wrote:
I acknowledge that I am
probably the only person on this list
who prefers an emulator for the PDP-11 over a real DEC
CPU and hardware associated with that solution.
However, I am extremely curious!!! What are the criteria which
determine if the original hardware is chosen over an emulator
which runs 150 times faster - assuming at the very least that
choosing the emulator is equal or less expensive than the
original hardware AND running under the emulator also
supports all the other computer requirements for that user.
There is more to vintage computing than just software!! I agree!! Can you
describe what is included in "more"?
(a) Extra noise
(b) Extra heat
(c) Total cost is more
(d) Slower CPU
(e) Slower disk I/O
(f) Slower ethernet
(g) Less disk space
(h) Smell, touch and feel of original hardware
I am not suggesting that (h) is better than (a) -> (g), but it would
help if you could explain why. I will accept: "That is just the way
it is!" as the explanation.
(h) is part of it, but for some of us, it's also the feeling of
accomplishment for keeping a 30+-year-old computer alive.
The way I explain it to family and friends who don't get
why I like spending time in the basement with old, loud
computers when I have perfectly fine ones upstairs is that
it's like people who maintain classic cars. Old cars are slower,
less reliable and guzzle more gas than even a cheap newer
one, but for some reason it's socially acceptable for people
to tinker with *those*.
For some of us (like me) for whom these machines are
actually OLDER than us, it's a way of understanding computing
of the past in a way that an emulator just won't do. For example,
I mentioned that on Simh on a somewhat older laptop ran
an RSX11-M SYSGEN in about a minute and a half, while a
real 11/23 took about three hours. That was quite the revelation for
me, and it's not something I would have fundamentally understood
without the real hardware.
The "collecting" aspect of it is fun as well, though I imagine that
novelty wears off when you have a full basement and difficulty
lifting even a BA11 box.
I'm not saying your points are invalid, because they're not. If
I were trying to maintain a commercial PDP-11 installation that
didn't have special hardware to consider, I might prefer
an emulator because it'll be faster and possibly more reliable
(though I'm going to count on my 11/23 outliving my next 3 x86
servers). It's a different set of considerations.
- Dave
Dave McGuire
wrote:
If you
don't already have any DEC systems to run 2.11BSD, then
I suspect that staying with SimH is probably a better alternative.
There is more to vintage computing than just software! But then that turns on the question - is there even a
cheap PDP-11
that can run 2.11BSD? I don't need a speed demon but how small is too
small vs big enough?
Is there any particular reason that real DEC CPUs are
important?