6 Jan
2019
6 Jan
'19
1:48 p.m.
On Sun, 2019-01-06 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis)
2. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis)
3. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE)
4. off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP
(Dr Iain Maoileoin)
5. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE)
6. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
7. uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jacob Ritorto)
8. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Richard Cini)
9. KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Noel Chiappa)
10. Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Fritz Mueller)
11. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss)
12. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jerry Weiss)
13. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
14. ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (drlegendre)
15. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
16. SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U have one?
or a hi res clean scan? (ED SHARPE)
17. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Al Kossow)
18. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Josh Dersch)
19. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell)
20. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss)
21. Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB (Curious Marc)
22. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
23. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell)
24. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
25. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (devin davison)
26. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
HELP (Bob Smith)
27. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
HELP (Grant Taylor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:10:04 -0800
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!)))
Message-ID: <1651425f-f406-205d-5284-1e6fd1d7c00a at sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
the
"Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'. To
quote:
"The 1966 winner was William J. Elliott, a 12th grade student at West
High School in Minneapolis. His project, ELTRAN, is an algorithmic
language compiler system for the UNIVAC 422 computer. Until the
development of ELTRAN, no compiler existed for the computer."
See PDF page 10 here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/computersAndAutomation/196701.pdf
--Chuck
P.S. One of these days, I'm going to host a course on "how to use
Google".
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:17:52 -0800
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
To: Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!)))
Message-ID: <6e237124-1ac7-700d-b9be-beda8f3a0e16 at sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're
going to find much on it. However, see the post by Steve Schweda
here:
https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-th…
He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some
documentation exists.
--Chuck
On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I use it with a UC07. Not sure what the difference in the
controllers is thought.
Get Outlook for iOS
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 5:46 PM -0500, "Jacob Ritorto via cctalk" <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hey all,
Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to
think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
thx
jake
P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly
to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
bridge
things?
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:35:38 -0500 (EST)
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams
Message-ID: <20190105233538.972AD18C0BE at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
The copy of the KD11-EA engineering drawings (in the 11/34A Field
Maintenance
Print Set, MP-00190) on Bitsavers is missing most of the pages that
hold the
microcode flow diagrams. I have a set of the KD11-EA FMPS (MP-00192),
which
does have all the missing pages, which I can eventually scan.
However, in the
interim, the 11/34 Field Maintenance Print Set Vol. 2 (MP-00082) on
Bitsavers
has a complete set of microcode flow diagrams for the KD11-E (pp. 15-
40 of the
PDF), and they are almost identical to the KD11-EA diagrams.
The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if
each page
had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last
microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The
actual
microinstruction contents seem to be the same.)
I don't know whyo the changed address; I originally thought that
perhaps they
had to re-do the IR Decode ROMs when they added floating point, and
they
needed the original location to handle the start of the floating
point
microcode, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Noel
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:04:29 -0800
From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams
Message-ID: <B740924C-3A2A-467D-BD20-71373D26569D at fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting
RT11(FB,XM)
on the machine and give it a workout.?? This would exercise the
machine
a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much as RSTS.
A few suggestions from my ancient history running RK11-C and a mix
of
DEC and Diablo Drives.? I regularly disassembled, moved cross
country
and reassembled PDP 11/34 and LSI 11/73 systems. I ran them in small
rooms which housed saltwater tanks containing sea creatures.
* Given the age of this equipment, double check all the ground
connections between the cabinets, PDU's, drives, outlets and CPU.
* Carefully check for breaks or problems with drive cables and
terminators.
* I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C if the second disk
bus
is unused.
* Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be booted of
from DK4.
* Make sure you only have one LTC active if a DL11-W and a KW11 are
both in use.
* If you are not using a common PDU for the CPU, Drive and RK11-C
power supplies, make sure they all powered from outlets on the
same
phase.
* Don't leave the disk packs or drives near the tanks.? The squid
have
good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices.
??? Jerry
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:27:15 -0600
From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
Message-ID: <8f48055c-6ca2-d342-25d2-4c2baaedb0d3 at ieee.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Hi Jake,
I don't have a UC04, but its manual states its? Peripheral Interface
is
SCSI single ended.? The pinout is just like the UC07, except for
terminator power.
??? Jerry
On 1/5/19 4:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does drive
selects.
The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a
time. The RK11-D
has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the
G740 I think) that
is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1-
of-4 select
only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D.
So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3.
On
the second
cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If it's
jumpered as drive
0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's
jumpered
as drive 0 and
you connect it to the second connector it's DK4.
-tony
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 23:37:19 -0600
From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
To: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, Fritz Mueller
<fritzm at fritzm.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <0381aa1f-bb09-17c7-490f-ed8247779015 at ieee.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/5/19 11:17 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 09:08:03 -0500
From: Bob Smith <bobsmithofd at gmail.com>
To: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk>, "General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
HELP
Message-ID:
<
CAHtNYbW0GBXV+UPRCwGMZzCnvMNpLCiF5LkG6wez_65w3YxMSQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
https://hapoc2015.sciencesconf.org/file/176702
gives a Little more history on Soviet copies of computers.
The timing of the production of the Capatob 2 seems to make it a
PDP8/L clone, not an M. What is called the 8 is really based on the
5,
used 6-bit bytes, 12 bit words, and was Octal based - memory was the
most expensive part of the system at least through the early 70s, and
thus 12 bit words for double precision, 24bits, was a reasonable
approach for a scientific computer.
bb
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:37 PM Dr Iain Maoileoin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
the
"Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to
12'. To quote:
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:21:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!)))
Message-ID: <1152753582.13550260.1546712513898 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
(COME ON SOCRATES ...? DO YOUR? THING!)
In a message dated 1/5/2019 1:49:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:
no is compiler a small one only 2 do loops allowed...ed#
Sent from AOL Mobile MailOn Friday, January 4, 2019 Chuck Guzis via
cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:On 1/4/19 8:42
PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:> Would be? interesting when you find
it.> Not necessarily "tiny"> Remember WATFOR??? (very impressive!)
I guesss not too many numerical methods types hwere, but ELTRAN is
asubroutine in the EISPACK linear programming set.? Yes, it's all
FORTRAN:
From the subroutine:
cc? ? this subroutine
is a translation of the algol procedure
elmtrans,c? ? num. math. 16, 181-204(1970) by peters and wilkinson.c?
? handbook for auto. comp., vol.ii-linear algebra, 372-395(1971).cc?
? this subroutine accumulates the stabilized elementaryc? ?
similarity transformations used in the reduction of ac? ? real
general matrix to upper hessenberg form by? elmhes.
--Chuck
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:36:56 +0000
From: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP
Message-ID:
<4BDE03FE-1A04-4060-B245-6EFDDC503B42 at csp-partnership.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom.
If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov <
https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ <
https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire-
lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob 2.
I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone board
with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70 front-
panel running on the same infrastructure)
I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this
saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the
reverse engineering on the panel.
Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline it
would be much appreciated.
Iain
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:17:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cclist at sydex.com, COURYHOUSE at aol.com
Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
STUFF!)))
Message-ID: <860959218.13562972.1546715876710 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Chuck! Many thanks!
Update on? 422 UNIVAC? docs . .? some kind? ?people have mailed in?
docs and? ?things? they have? found related to this? 422 UNIVAC ...?
things are? shaping up! Many? thanks? ?to? all? these? folks-
I? fear ever putting power to this? thing... so? may? parts to go?
POP... I have a nice large? Variac.....? ?suggestions?
Ed
In a message dated 1/5/2019 11:18:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:
Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're
going to find much on it.? However, see the post by Steve Schweda
here:
https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-th…
He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some
documentation exists.
--Chuck
On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
the
"Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'.?
To quote:
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 12:58:44 -0800
From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <06515329-3961-4FF4-87FE-C11C3FDEF2AD at fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Well, there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-)
Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with the
non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It behaved
exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping, counting up
errors) on boot.
So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the
issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A
memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen so
far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today.
Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to try
and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault?
I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while
waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish up
the standalone CRC dumper utility today.
Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show up
in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to
interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast
bits on and off the machine soon.
cheers,
--FritzM.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:46:33 -0500
From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
Message-ID:
<
CAHYQbfABUeqYRHVCDGFJW=AWwEmP85aCn5GUNeeVvbxKVNw=Ow at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hey all,
Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to
think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
thx
jake
P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly
to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
bridge
things?
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:51:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Richard Cini <rich.cini at verizon.net>
To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
Message-ID:
<
C8CACE9E45EB766D.E58C2E33-FDBF-42C3-836D-A38B62C941C3 at mail.outlook.com
From: Fritz Mueller
All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing just
fine.
Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12:
"Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.? On Jan 5, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Noel Chiappa via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if
each page
had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last
microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The
actual
microinstruction contents seem to be the same.)
That?s interesting... So what?s at 002 now? Maybe something new was
required there by micro branch/fork logic, so the original contents
had to be moved?
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:06:48 -0600
From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <c8bf1cf0-1cdc-f63b-278a-d0ccd75a86b1 at ieee.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/5/19 2:58 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
On Jan 5,
2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Well,
there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-)
Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with
the non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It
behaved exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping,
counting up errors) on boot.
So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the
issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A
memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen
so far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today.
Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to
try and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault?
I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while
waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish
up the standalone CRC dumper utility today.
Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show
up in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to
interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast
bits on and off the machine soon.
cheers,
--FritzM.
From: Fritz Mueller
All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing
just fine.
Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12:
"Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.? Hey all,
Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I
just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems
to think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
thx
jake
P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to
directly to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
bridge
things?
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:44:51 -0800
From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <2CA1BCC4-8E94-4A21-9A3F-10F3AFFDBA03 at fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Jerry,
On Jan 5, 2019, at 4:06 PM, Jerry Weiss <jsw
at ieee.org> wrote:
Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting
RT11(FB,XM) on the machine and give it a workout. This would
exercise the machine a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much
as RSTS.
Yup, I have previously had RT-11 running on this machine without
incident.
? I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C
if the second
disk bus is unused.
Yep, got that in there.
? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS
can be booted of
from DK4.
Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 disk
selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
? Make sure you only have one LTC active if a
DL11-W and a KW11
are both in use.
Only a DL11-W in this system.
? Don't leave the disk packs or drives near
the tanks. The
squid have good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices.
Ah, haven?t checked that one yet. I will carefully check my basement
for squid!
--FritzM.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:42:10 -0600
From: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
Message-ID:
<
CAFjrmd4Y27od8rxFBHcszAV4=KANscJyuVq31mn6ckE7AQ+wjg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust for
playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
looking
for a home?
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:02:21 -0500 (EST)
From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net
To: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
Message-ID: <2039907214.341781.1546743741252 at email.ionos.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust
for
playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
looking
for a home?
Thanks in advance.
I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I
thought I had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find
it. Would one of those work for you?
Will
"He may look dumb but that's just a disguise."? -- Charlie Daniels
"The names of global variables should start with? ? // "? --?
https://isocpp.org
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 03:03:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U
have one?
or a hi res clean scan?
Message-ID: <2056564350.13640687.1546743809848 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Howdy? from the? ?desert? lands in Arizona!Early in the? HP DOS? PC?
campaign? there was the? monarch? butterfly poster used to advertise?
HP? 150 ... seeking to recreate? a duplicate? in a? corner of? the?
room our? little? hp 150? computer exchange inc? ?demo desk? area?
.... the? poster ( or a? print of it... )? ?is? needed!
What? great? fun we are? having...? got a? 2886a? (need paper feeder?
and receiver? little? flap? things that hung off? printer though)and
the? stake of? all the? '150' blue? box? ?software'? to have there
too? and other things? ? for the era...any other early poster
material? good? too... the monarch? one is? what? sticks in my?
brain...
OK? also the? HP Portable 110? came? along too... interested in Ad?
material for? it... have most of the hardware? to? look? ?interesting
I? think.
THANKS IN ADVANCE? ED SHARPE? ARCHIVIST FOR SMECC
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:55:49 -0800
From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
Message-ID: <9fc4ea8d-2b99-5682-4bef-a25799b4cfd1 at bitsavers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
Hey all,
Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?
Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non-
embedded
scsi adapters.
In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 20:41:21 -0800
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
Message-ID: <97bc8c2b-9143-3d42-4c22-ec58452b17a3 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/5/2019 7:55 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk
wrote:
Al's right; I'll add two things:
1) I've used a SCSI2SD in other systems that formerly used an
Adaptec
4000/5000 controller with some success, but I was only ever able to
get
a single drive to work at a time; you may have similar luck with the
SCSI2SD if you configure it just right.
2) The SCSI2SD does currently have support for emulating some of
these
early controllers/bridges, but the Adaptecs aren't on the list yet
--
however the SCSI2SD's creator has been open to feature requests in
the
past, and might be able to add support, and documentation for the
Adaptect boards is readily available.? (And the SCSI2SD firmware's
open
as well, so you can hack it in yourself if you have the time, etc.)
- Josh
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:17:50 +0000
From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID:
<
CAHkUCCzgCmUGP4fD9aKTtNGVfqWahVRxWgHAVSAiu3FHU2J-8g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hey all,
Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?
Nope. This card
expects pre common command set disks with non-
embedded
scsi adapters.
In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.
?
Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be
booted of from DK4.
Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740
disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
No. One difference between
the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does
drive selects.
The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a
time. The RK11-D
has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the
G740 I think) that
is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1-
of-4 select
only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D.
So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3.
On
the second
cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If
it's
jumpered as drive
0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's
jumpered
as drive 0 and
you connect it to the second connector it's DK4.
-tony
I have used a Diablo drive with 1 of 4 selection on a third party
RKV11
controller which was 3 bit binary.
It only worked as DK1, DK2 or DK4 for obvious reasons.
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:40:10 -0800
From: Curious Marc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>
To: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <technoid6502 at gmail.com>, "General
Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB
Message-ID: <1B9BC890-8E94-4184-A6F8-6AAD35F5F924 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Interconnects at 28Gb/s/lane have been out for a while now, supported
by quite a few chips. 56Gb/s PAM4 is around the corner, and we run
100Gb/s in the lab right now. Just sayin? ;-). That said, we throw in
about every equalization trick we know of, PCB materials are getting
quite exotic and connectors are pretty interesting. We have to hand
hold our customers to design their interconnect traces and connector
breakouts. And you can?t go too far, with increasing reliance on
micro-twinax or on-board optics for longer distances and backplanes.
Marc
?
Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be
booted of from DK4.
Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the
G740
disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? On Jan 4, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley
via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Apropos of nothing, I've been confuse for some time regarding
maximum
clock rates for local bus.
My admittedly old information, which comes from the 3rd ed. of
"High
Performance Computer Architecture", a course I audited, indicates a
maximum speed on the order of 1ghz for very very short trace
lengths.
Late model computers boast multi-hundred to multi gigahertz
fsb's. Am
I wrong in thinking this is an aggregate of several serial lines
running at 1 to 200mhz? No straight answer has presented on
searches
online.
So here's the question. Is maximum fsb on standard, non-optical
bus
still limited to a maximum of a couple of hundred megahertz, or did
something happen in the last decade or two that changed things
dramatically? I understand, at least think I do, that these
ridiculously high frequency claims would not survive capacitance
issues
and RFI issues. When my brother claimed a 3.2ghz bus speed for his
machine I just told him that was wrong, impossible for practical
purposes, that it had to be an aggregate figure, a 'Pentium rating'
sort of number rather than the actual clock speed. I envision
switching bus tech akin to present networking, paralleled to
sidestep
the limit while keeping pin and trace counts low.....? Something
like
the PCIe 'lane' scheme in present use? This is surmise based on my
own
experience.
When I was current, the way out of this limitation was fiber-optics
for
the bus. This was used in supercomputing and allowed interconnects
of
longer length at ridiculous speeds.
Thanks for allowing me to entertain this question. Though it is
not
specifically a classic computer question, it does relate to
development
and history.
Best,
Technoid Mutant (Jeff Worley)
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:45:39 -0800
From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <52B95127-1712-4E7E-AF23-879C42FD7F1D at fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:17 PM, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
Hi Tony,
I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C backplane, appearing on
sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the last
paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual?
On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all
other jumpers are unpopulated.
--FritzM.
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:51:18 +0000
From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID:
<
CAHkUCCwiheajcd31QFD6YMEQVVDk8qM98arTz9RTqy5pPMCmDA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Easy enough experiment to try; would need to
re-jumper the G740
disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does
drive selects.
... The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C
backplane, appearing
on sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the
last paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual?
On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all
other jumpers are unpopulated.
Ooops...
Yes, you do have to fit the jumper there. Actually, is there a good
reason not to fit all
jumpers on that board?
-tony
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:58:48 -0800
From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
Message-ID: <AE581820-081C-44E4-A543-406FC31FB533 at fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually, is there a good reason not to fit all jumpers on that
board?
Looking at it, I was just wondering the same thing!
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:53:34 -0500
From: devin davison <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com>
To: wrcooke at wrcooke.net, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
Message-ID:
<
CAOpB=UM9O-iJHzRjfgo805+qJ52OzjPPGmH1O=cyH9yq380PmQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I have a stockpile of them. Will get you pictures tomorrow.
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 11:59 PM Will Cooke via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On
January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust
for
playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
looking
for a home?
Thanks in advance.
I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I
thought I
had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find
it. Would one
of those work for you?
Will
"He may look dumb but that's just a disguise." -- Charlie Daniels
"The names of global variables should start with // " --
https://isocpp.org
Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom.
If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov <
https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ <
https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire-
lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob
2.
I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone
board with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70
front-panel running on the same infrastructure)
I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this
saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the
reverse engineering on the panel.
Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline
it would be much appreciated.
Iain
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:42:15 -0700
From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
HELP
Message-ID:
<
aec7d8ba-4356-8f6f-9bfe-16ac4932cbc0 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/6/19 7:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote:
What is called the 8 is really based on the 5,
used 6-bit bytes, 12
bit
words, and was Octal based
Is "byte" the correct term for 6-bits? I thought a "byte" had
always
been 8-bits. But I started paying attention in the '90s, so I missed
a lot.
I would have blindly substituted "word" in place of "byte" except
for
the fact that you subsequently say "12-bit words". I don't know if
"words" is parallel on purpose, as in representing a quantity of two
6-bit word.
Will someone please explain what I'm missing that transpired before
I
started paying attention in the '90s?