cctech Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9

Thanks -----Original Message----- From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of cctech-request at classiccmp.org Sent: 09 September 2020 18:00 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9 Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ftgh 95 ohm coax (Don Stalkowski) 2. Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? (Jules Richardson) 3. Re: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases (Matt Burke) 4. Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 (Liam Proven) 5. Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? (Liam Proven) 6. RE: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases (Electronics Plus) 7. Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? (Fred Cisin) 8. Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? (Doug Jackson) 9. Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? (Fred Cisin) 10. Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 (Grant Taylor) 11. Re: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases (jim stephens) 12. Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 (Grant Taylor) 13. Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 (Liam Proven) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 12:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: dstalk at execulink.com (Don Stalkowski) To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: ftgh 95 ohm coax Message-ID: <20200908163307.241BDBEEAD4 at cel2.x> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ftgh: a few lengths of 95 ohm coax pickup-only here in London, ON ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 16:12:09 -0500 From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> To: Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? Message-ID: <30e83f7c-26ee-0ad0-907d-cd6a3efa4e56 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed On 9/7/20 6:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: OK, it boots off a DOS 3.3 floppy if that floppy is inserted before it attempts to boot from the hard disk. If I wait for it to do its "system file not found" bit, followed by a subsequent prompt to insert boot media and press a key, it attempts to access the floppy drive but then goes off into la-la land. Odd. But anyway, taking the successful floppy boot route, I can certainly access the hard disk in terms of bringing up directory listings and TYPEing files to the display. So far, attempts to run anything from the drive just result in a lock-up (keyboard immediately unresponsive, hard reset required). There appear to be DOS utils on the drive, and command.com, but I've not checked for hidden system files yet. fdisk shows the partition as active. No, but I see that the minuszerodegrees site has an image, so I'll write that out and see what happens. Looking at the drive contents, incidentally, I didn't see anything that explains (or interacts with) that unusual video hardware - it basically just holds DOS and a bunch of documents written by the original owner. Maybe they got suckered into buying this fancy graphics hardware without having any actual need for it, and then of course EGA and VGA came along and rendered it obsolete anyway. Yes - something that people often seem to forget, too. I've run into that quite often, where someone will hang onto an old drive because of the contents, but they'll dump the controller that it was formatted against. I don't think there was any kind of standard at all for what the low level looked like - vendors were free to do what they wanted in terms of what values they used for flags and how they actually ordered things within the sector header. I suppose there were some tweaks made over time for optimization or reliability (or at least, recovery) reasons, too, which is why even a single vendor had a few different incompatible formats. I expect it was the same in the SCSI and IDE worlds, but of course with those "the controller" which handles formatting is really part of the package, so it wasn't an issue. Jules ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 23:11:01 +0100 From: Matt Burke <matt at 9track.net> To: Josh Dersch via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases Message-ID: <91d46a24-04df-20c7-d154-d17064116c6f at 9track.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 05/09/2020 20:19, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: To use the VAXstation 100 with VMS you need to install the "VAXstation Software" layered product. I have not come across any original copies however DEC later contributed the source code to the DECUS library under submission V00376. The submission consists of a CMS library and some other source files. The only place you can reliably get this from is DECUServe as you need to get the files whilst preserving their RMS attributes. Then you need to compile the code and create an installation kit to use the software. The good news is that I've already done all of this so here is a link to the source and installation kit on Simh tap files: http://www.9track.net/bits/dec/vs100/v00376.zip http://www.9track.net/bits/dec/vs100/vsta012.zip This was built on VAX/VMS V4.4 with: Bliss-32 V4.3 FORTRAN V4.7 Pascal V3.7 CMS V2.3 MMS V2.2 I also have a VAXstation 100 that I hope to get working some day but I need the M7452 card and a VS10X-EA mouse. I did win an M7452 on eBay about 10 years ago but the seller then said that he had already sold it. I've not seen another one since (well not one for an affordable price. I did find a reseller that wanted $1000 for one). Matt ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 00:42:19 +0200 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 Message-ID: <CAMTenCFtWq=TCgFb22jS4GhH2i=qgWEnFSVBqkSpSdr97TUwbw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 08:18, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: Something like this any help? https://winworldpc.com/product/netware/5x I have physical media of this somewhere: https://archive.org/details/Netware_5_Operating_System_3_User_Demo_Novell -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 00:46:18 +0200 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? Message-ID: <CAMTenCHotTw2=rULsgbg1LWKF4vBnoz5BeyoV9N2TjaTNJcdmQ at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 06:47, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: Agreed. (Like I'd dare to differ with Fred.) My 2?'s worth is just: for an XT, if you want to fit a CF card or something, try DR-DOS 3.41. It's out there in various places. RAM usage as small as MS-DOS 3.3 but offers most of the benefits of MS-DOS 4 and some of MS-DOS 5 (both of which take a *lot* more RAM on an XT-class machine.) -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 17:48:37 -0500 From: "Electronics Plus" <sales at elecplus.com> To: "'Matt Burke'" <matt at 9track.net>, "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases Message-ID: <007501d68632$30c06410$92412c30$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" There is a DEC dealer in the UK that has M7452 cards listed as in-stock. Contact Spencer Dye at sales at swancomp.co.uk. Old mouse I have located, but he has to check if it is actually in stock, and if it works. Cindy -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Matt Burke via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2020 5:11 PM To: Josh Dersch via cctalk Subject: Re: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases On 05/09/2020 20:19, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: To use the VAXstation 100 with VMS you need to install the "VAXstation Software" layered product. I have not come across any original copies however DEC later contributed the source code to the DECUS library under submission V00376. The submission consists of a CMS library and some other source files. The only place you can reliably get this from is DECUServe as you need to get the files whilst preserving their RMS attributes. Then you need to compile the code and create an installation kit to use the software. The good news is that I've already done all of this so here is a link to the source and installation kit on Simh tap files: http://www.9track.net/bits/dec/vs100/v00376.zip http://www.9track.net/bits/dec/vs100/vsta012.zip This was built on VAX/VMS V4.4 with: Bliss-32 V4.3 FORTRAN V4.7 Pascal V3.7 CMS V2.3 MMS V2.2 I also have a VAXstation 100 that I hope to get working some day but I need the M7452 card and a VS10X-EA mouse. I did win an M7452 on eBay about 10 years ago but the seller then said that he had already sold it. I've not seen another one since (well not one for an affordable price. I did find a reseller that wanted $1000 for one). Matt ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 16:04:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.2009081521250.17983 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 8 Sep 2020, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote: file How large is the drive? If it is over 32MB, then try to find DOS 3.31 or newer. MY preference is MS-DOS 6.22 access to in a Date and time of Command.com and any other DOS files will identify the version number. DIR /A or DIR /A:H will let you see the hidden files (presumably IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS; PC-DOS had IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM instead) Can you COPY files from the HDD to floppy? Being able to access contents of files, but not RUN them seems odd. IF the DOS on the floppy misunderstands the partition table, then root directory might look OK, but sub-directories might not be where it thinks they are, . . . >> No, but I see that the minuszerodegrees site has an image, so I'll write that NOT a big deal. It's merely the only method directly from IBM for doing low level format. In most cases, Speedstor is more useful for LLF. just they it It is probably completely CGA compatible, unless you invoke of of its other modes. The ROM on the video card may be a BIOS extension, in which case access to extended modes may be handled internally in various programs. For instance Windows 3.x, PC PAint, Pagemaker, and Xerox Ventura let you configure for a variety of video hardware. Otherwise, check to see if CONFIG.SYS has DEVICE commands to load any device drivers, usually .SYS, although sometimes .COM OEMs It always seemed counter-intuitive that makers of HDD hardware for XT didn't slavishly mimic IBM's XT HDD. And especially counter-intuitive that different vendor Xebec controllers didn't always interchange. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 09:16:42 +1000 From: Doug Jackson <doug at doughq.com> To: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? Message-ID: <CAM_9E61O0gf_8_jPRCHfKfZMcA-1Okbdhvt-vT=ufVTChcC6PA at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I recall some of the high end cards in the CGA / EGA era had adon boards that were connected with a 20 or 36 pin jumper cable across the top of the boards - They also ran more than 64K or ram, such as the ATI Wonder boards. Maybe it's like that - the ATI boards had 256K so they could page. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: doug at doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net ----------------------------------------------------------- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, 8 Sep 2020, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote: > > OK, it boots off a DOS 3.3 floppy if that floppy is inserted before it > > attempts to boot from the hard disk. If I wait for it to do its "system > file > > not found" bit, followed by a subsequent prompt to insert boot media and > > press a key, it attempts to access the floppy drive but then goes off > into > > > How large is the drive? > If it is over 32MB, then try to find DOS 3.31 or newer. > MY preference is MS-DOS 6.22 > > > > access > > the hard disk in terms of bringing up directory listings and TYPEing > files to > > in a > > lock-up (keyboard immediately unresponsive, hard reset required). There > > appear to be DOS utils on the drive, and command.com, but I've not > checked > > > Date and time of Command.com and any other DOS files will identify the > version number. > > DIR /A or > DIR /A:H > will let you see the hidden files (presumably IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS; PC-DOS > had IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM instead) > > Can you COPY files from the HDD to floppy? > > Being able to access contents of files, but not RUN them seems odd. > IF the DOS on the floppy misunderstands the partition table, then root > directory might look OK, but sub-directories might not be where it thinks > they are, . . . > > > >> > No, but I see that the minuszerodegrees site has an image, so I'll write > that > > > NOT a big deal. It's merely the only method directly from IBM for doing > low level format. > In most cases, Speedstor is more useful for LLF. > > > Looking at the drive contents, incidentally, I didn't see anything that > > explains (or interacts with) that unusual video hardware - it basically > just > > they > > got suckered into buying this fancy graphics hardware without having any > > actual need for it, and then of course EGA and VGA came along and > rendered it > > > It is probably completely CGA compatible, unless you invoke of of its > other modes. > > The ROM on the video card may be a BIOS extension, in which case access to > extended modes may be handled internally in various programs. For > instance Windows 3.x, PC PAint, Pagemaker, and Xerox Ventura let you > configure for a variety of video hardware. > Otherwise, check to see if CONFIG.SYS has DEVICE commands to load any > device drivers, usually .SYS, although sometimes .COM > > > OEMs > >> of Xebec! > > Yes - something that people often seem to forget, too. I've run into > that > > quite often, where someone will hang onto an old drive because of the > > contents, but they'll dump the controller that it was formatted against. > > It always seemed counter-intuitive that makers of HDD hardware for XT > didn't slavishly mimic IBM's XT HDD. And especially counter-intuitive > that different vendor Xebec controllers didn't always interchange. > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 16:28:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.2009081624080.17983 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 9 Sep 2020, Doug Jackson wrote: page. I had a CGA "double board" that did 640x400 or 640x200 by more colors. It was not the same as this one, but might have been internally similar. But I don't remember ATI premium CGA. ATI had some interesting EGA boards, including one that had an add-on that included the mid-board connector for Compaq luggable internal video! Otherwise, you were stuck with Compaq CGA or Compaq EGA. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 19:18:04 -0600 From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 Message-ID: <9cbe174f-7eb1-bd77-88d9-a433449278f6 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 9/8/20 4:42 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: I'm very familiar with WinWorld and VetusWare. I quite like them. They are on the short list to find things like this. There is high overlap between a number of these places. That being said, I haven't tested that specific ISO. But that's mostly because I've long had a version of NetWare 5.1. Now that I'm looking for specific things, particularly patches, I decided to send a broadcast message. I've been focusing on 5.1 and I've not yet broadened my net to include 5(.0). I was sort of hoping that someone might have had the support pack files tucked away somewhere. I'm currently working on re-organizing my 48 GB of Novell software. Partially to normalize the names and location, as well as to be able to tell what I do and do not have. Thank you for the reply Liam. You re-enforced the fact that I need to get a better understanding of what /specific/ versions I have and the things I know about are. -- Grant. . . . unix || die ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 20:25:19 -0700 From: jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: ISO: DEC VR100 and early X releases Message-ID: <7487c5f1-bfe6-0d6d-8b37-ee0668c2540c at jwsss.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 9/8/2020 3:48 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: and if it works. They aren't the "normal" DEC hockey puck mice.? it's sort of like a PS2 mouse with I think an odd ball.? I had hands on Josh's and one for Paul Birkel (for too long, but they have them now), and the mouse was odd. I don't know how Josh is doing, since is is working, but the cabling on the mouse cord had degraded and had goo on it like the black crap you get form the wrong type of rubber when it turns tar like. Glad Josh got his going, pulling for Paul to get his running.? And interesting they may be a third one. So cool Cameron Kaiser collected two and passed them along. thanks Jim ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 22:33:47 -0600 From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 Message-ID: <1668c3d3-f0c9-c574-e30f-e879893223a0 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 9/8/20 7:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: The particular ISO that you linked to is Novell NetWare 5.1 (Support Pack 0). So it needs support packs installed on it. I've learned that there are different Support Packs, "Domestic" and "International" having to do with the 128-bit vs 56-bit encryption woes of the '90s. -- Grant. . . . unix || die ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 13:08:43 +0200 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: NetWare 5.1 / BorderManager 3.5 Message-ID: <CAMTenCEQu_=MTZHP+o9e4Ho5Y+7Uk-XBhn1dSbcJyu1uwS65Tw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 06:34, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 9/8/20 7:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > > The particular ISO that you linked to is Novell NetWare 5.1 (Support > Pack 0). So it needs support packs installed on it. But that's good, isn't it? I confess I may have misread your original message as being "I need NW5.1 with no SPs." Was that wrong? But if you have SP0, no bugfixes, then surely you can just install the SPs on top of it to get to whatever level you want? My $DAYJOB was part of Novell until about a year ago. I _may_ be able to find internal download links still but I am not confident. Want me to start asking around? I may need some fairly specific info as there are few Netware folk left now. E.g. how many separate SPs did NW5.1 get? Do you need both US and ROW versions? Oh dear... TBH I have a suspicion nobody may have kept stuff like that, even inside Novell... :( -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 End of cctech Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9 *************************************