cctalk Digest, Vol 38, Issue 16

Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Geoffrey Reed) 2. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Chuck Guzis) 3. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Liam Proven) 4. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Fred Cisin) 5. TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T) 6. Re: HP 9836U processor mystery... (Josh Dersch) 7. Re: Playing with HP2640B (CuriousMarc) 8. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (CuriousMarc) 9. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti) 10. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins) 11. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins) 12. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Mattis Lind) 13. RE: Playing with HP2640B (Rik Bos) 14. DR-DOS (Liam Proven) 15. Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T) 16. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) 17. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) 18. Re: DR-DOS (william degnan) 19. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (Anders Nelson) 20. Re: DR-DOS (geneb) 21. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) 22. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) 23. Re: DR-DOS (geneb) 24. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Eric Schlaepfer) 25. Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Peter Allan) 26. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Paul Berger) 27. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti) 28. Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Chuck Guzis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:30:08 -0800 From: Geoffrey Reed <geoffr at zipcon.net> To: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <D63332E6.5367F%geoffr at zipcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" On 11/15/17, 9:44 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk" <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org on behalf of cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB unformatted capacity LS-120 and LS-240 (which sadly I can?t remember the specs of :( ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:51:19 -0800 From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> To: Geoffrey Reed via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <a5877e73-9b6c-f5fa-afdf-ef59f1f6caa1 at sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 11/16/2017 12:30 PM, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk wrote: unformatted How about the Caleb "it" drive (UHD144): http://www.obsoletemedia.org/caleb-uhd144/ I've still got a stack of those drives and media. Or the DTC "TakeTen" drive (got the drive but no media), or the Qume Hyperflex drive or the Kodak/Drivetec floppy drives or the DTC TeamMate for Apple... The list is very long indeed. --Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:28:19 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: Geoffrey Reed <geoffr at zipcon.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <CAMTenCE8EoxJxw_W_wBz+53Hfp752Ji2+kw60X8LKxoecvon3A@ mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 16 November 2017 at 21:30, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > unformatted Just FYI, your quote marks render on Linux as superscript 2s. Using an Apple device? You might want to turn off smart quotes... https://www.jordanmerrick.com/posts/ios-11-smart-punctuation/ http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/26/tips-turn- off-ios-11-smart-punctuation-to-avoid-data-entry-problems -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 15:27:53 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1711161437490.4440 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed drive On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: I know that, but I was addressing the entire group with my rant, and not everybody is as closely familiar with these details as you are. Actually, when speaking about the MEDIA, it is much easier to create a name that is both accurate and unambiguous. For example, with 5.25" disks, we have "5.25 inch with 300 Oersted" and "5.25 inch with 600 Oersted". Of course, if somebody wants to be difficult, there are still variant forms, including both 10 and 16 sector hard-sectored, Amlyn 600 Oersted with special cutouts for the disk changer, Twiggy, no-notch disks for some minor tamper resistance in software distribution, etc. recording True. 1M By "Some specifications", I meant specifications of SOME examples of the most common form of each size. I was absolutely not intending it to be an exhaustive, comprehensive list of all possibilities. THAT is exactly what I was including as examples in my later "exceptions" list. Although a different disk size, that is the same engineering kludge as the Weltec 5.25" 180RPM drive. Again, just listing examples of most common, NOT intending it as a list of all possibilities that were theoretically possible. I have never seen an ED disk recorded FM, and do not believe that there was ever a commercial system that used that. If you know of one, please give us the details! It can be a very long list. I was trying to stick with ones that were very close to the main branch of our "current" evolutionary tree, but there isn't a clear boundary. I estimate that there were approximately 2500 different microcomputer floppy disk formats, with a large portion of those being variant forms, not just different choices of number and size of sectors, directory location and structure, etc. I implemented just over 400 formats in XenoCopy that were straight-forward to handle with IBM PC hardware. Those are not all that could have been implemented, nor does it deny the existence of many variants, or completely different ones that are not feasable with PC. I have NEVER thought that you were dumb. Everything that I have seen of your posts has been competent and well-informed. But, I don't think that you follow what I was attempting to convey. I wanted to: 1) rant about marketing creating terminology, including "double density" and "high density". And creating a new definition of Megabyte (1,024,000) for the "1.44M" format (1,474,560 bytes/1.40625Mebibytes) 2) state my opinion that using the specific one that comprises at least 75%? of the use of a given configuration as the name for that configuration creates a name that is admittedly inaccurate, and fraught with exceptions, nevertheless relatively unambiguous, at least to the extent that purchases will usually be usable. If I buy "360K diskette", it will usually be the 300 Oersted 5.25 inch, and be the closest of what is available to buy for 87.5K TRS80, Apple2, PET, Osborne, PC 160K/180K/320K/360K, DEC Rainbow, Canon AS100, Elcompco, Eagle, Otrona, etc. Yes, there were people who used 41 or 42 tracks of a 40 track drive, but I consider those to be "corner cases", to be considered as alterations, not as the main form. Admittedly, there were differences in testing between SSSD, DSSD, DSSD, DSDD, and 48tpi v 96tpi marketing of disks with the same chmical formulation. Purchasing diskettes now for something such as a DEC Rainbow, I would settle for the 360K testing. If I buy "720K 3.5 inch diskette", I expect to receive 600 Oersted 3.5" If I buy "1.44M Diskette", I expect to receive a "HD" 3.5 inch diskette, with about 720 to 780 Oersted. BUT, as you've pointed out, when we refer to the DRIVE, we can't really be certain that it won't be misinterpreted unless we list every spec that we expect it to conform to. Or order by manufacturers model number. Shugart/Matsushita 455/465/475 Tandon TM100-2/TM100-4 Teac 55B, 55F, 55G, 55FG, etc. (EXAMPLES. NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS A "complete" LIST) BTW, Tandon made a 100tpi drive (TM100-4M) for Micropolis compatability, but many/most? of those are mislabelled "TM100-4" (missing that critical 'M' modifier!) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 21:16:08 -0600 From: Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs Message-ID: <CAEfH1SGBOxKUXW3rQmNGaLxsnVDZ3=D-Pe-+A9NTLRFtjJ+itg at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have imaged disks and scanned docs for an old software authoring tool from Texas Instruments, "NaturalLink". It runs on early IBM PCs and was included with some docs I was given for the TI Professional Computer, an almost-PC clone. There are a number of ads and articles about NaturalLink in the various trade mags available via Google Books. The docs are here: http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/index.php?dir=%2Fcomputing%2FTI/NaturalLink And the disk images are here: http://nocarrier.net/archive/floppy_images/PC/TI/NaturalLink/ Regular 360k MS-DOS images. I haven't tried them in DOSBox yet but it'll probably run there. I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if anyone wants them. They're not light. I can include the NaturalLink disks as well, otherwise those will stay in my library. Unfortunately I don't have any of the (special format) OS media for the Professional. Enjoy! -j ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:11:57 -0800 From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: HP 9836U processor mystery... Message-ID: <CADBZjLZ9AeUWiQhuo_-F+xZjPA=p9De=MDG3n+km0tRWWyTAfQ at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote: pins I picked up a 68012 (cheap) and stuck in in the 9836U this evening. It works, and is identified as a 68012 during power-up diagnostics. So now we know. Now what am I gonna do with all that address space? :) - Josh ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:12:54 -0800 From: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com> To: Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <C27C94AA-8CEB-4330-9D51-760B18A13CB1 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? Marc On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing the "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping out from the screen down into the bottom. The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine. Just needed some adjustment to the brightness. With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial terminal to a Linux box. Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp2644/diag.html and ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644 I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but just hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no difference. The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe there is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though. Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000 which should then be within the available space. The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It has a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small programs above on a HP2640B? The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special considerations. Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on bitsavers. /Mattis ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:25:43 -0800 From: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com> To: Ethan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? Message-ID: <DCE4C2E5-58CF-4CEF-87F0-B0B11833D622 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I use shadow boxes from Michael's to display my boards. They have many kinds http://www.michaels.com/-black-shadowbox-studio-decor/ M10322044.html?dwvar_M10322044_color=Black Marc On Nov 16, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: This message has no content. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:09:58 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711170954380.25118 at linuxserv.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, CuriousMarc wrote: What we did on one of our 2645 terminals was the hot wire method. We then attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case. BTW is it really an implosion protection? I don't think so because since the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be completely different in this aspect compared to European ones. Christian ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:10:25 +1100 From: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com> To: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <45A317C7-55D2-49BC-892D-460322C6EDB8 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Marc, in addition to Mattis? forthcoming reply, my recent experience with a moldy 2624A was that the hot wire method was very poor. Too hard to get the wire in, didn?t melt the ?glue? very well, smelly. Gave up when the wire broke. What worked best for me was a flat blade screwdriver that was small enough to sit sideways in the gap between the front glass and the tube. I sliced sections of the glue and picked them out with a hook. I also squirted in a combination of RP7 and household cleaner but not sure either did anything other than lubricate the surfaces - they may have helped lift the glue a bit. My ?glue? was like a layer of silicon rubber which hung on for as long as possible but I got it all off without any damage. I replaced the front glass and held it on with a bead of black silicon rubber used for shower glass. I spaced it from the tube with pieces of wire around the edges and pulled them out when the silicon dried. Worked well for me but keen to hear how Mattis went. I didn?t try the hot water soak but it would probably help. David Collins cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: the out dev_en/hp2644/diag.html just difference. there has programs ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:13:00 +1100 From: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com> To: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <555C99B3-D2B1-4D83-97E7-025672F96790 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Christian do you know the gauge of the wire you used ? And the current? Maybe I should try that approach again! David Collins cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? Marc then attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case. the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be completely different in this aspect compared to European ones. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:52:47 +0100 From: Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com> To: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <CABr82SJ6oWNN7Ga6LJ=5LYfoZj3EYStYDrFatZGBXBhoSCp5Gw at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The screen on my HP2640 had degenerated quite far. It was only a spot in the middle, 2 by 4 inch, that still attached the glass to the CRT. I used a thin fish fillet knife to dig through the remaining glue. Before https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23622163_10155696765784985_ 6518064439030378363_n.jpg?oh=44cbf7f7f00d6e25155c208124e20a38&oe=5AA7349D The result after: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23621971_10155696757184985_ 1959733265676657917_n.jpg?oh=36a20689c0fb5a16de7fc4df138a40e0&oe=5A9993B1 Anyhow, I researched the glue a bit. The glue is, as far as I understand, PVAc (PolyVinylAcetate, sometimes also known as PVA). PVAc is not soluble in water. It takes quite high temperature to melt it. However PVAc is soluble in many esters. I bought some Butylacetate. It dissolves sample bits of glue from HP2640 quite well and rapidly. Butylacetate has quite high boiling temperature (about 120 degrees centigrade) and thus does not evaporate that quickly. So my idea is now to test on a 2645 screen or VR201 screen by adding some butylacetate and seal with some thin plastic wrap foil and let it dissolve a bit. Then use the fish fillet knife again and repeat the process. /Mattis ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:12:29 +0100 From: "Rik Bos" <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> To: "'Mattis Lind'" <mattislind at gmail.com>, "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: &lt;004401d35f9d$57dcf900$0796eb00$(a)xs4all.nl&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I did it by heating the crt to about 50-60 degrees celsius and used a putty-knife. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/albums/72157689357633754 The photos are from a Philips P2000M system but I did it the same way with my 264X terminals and 9845's systems. It takes about half an hour to heat and separate the screen from the crt . -Rik the thin fish fillet understand, PVAc water. many from HP2640 (about idea is and use the fish ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:30:20 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CAMTenCEZycvAXZbfE8Zcz-_CE6Z70D5OTdGLMkHuDpBGJvZutQ@ mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I hope this is vintage enough. I've been playing around some more with my projects to create VMs / bootable USB keys with PC DOS 7.1 and DR-DOS. Right now I'm focusing on DR-DOS 7.1 and the DR OpenDOS Enhancement Project, because that's FOSS and AFAICS it can be redistributed, which I can't with DR-DOS 7.02/7.03/7.04/7.05 or DR-DOS 8/8.1, which were commercially licensed. I found a download of the last build released: https://archiveos.org/drdos/ First, it's the wrong size. VirtualBox can't mount it. VMware can. I truncated it to exactly 2880 sectors using the advice from ``jleg094'' here: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39141 VBox mounts that. But it won't boot, nor in VMware -- it just displays 2 dots and freezes. Embarrassingly late in the troubleshooting process, I've found why. I didn't think to check what was on the image! Foolish of me. I mounted it on a pre-booted VM and looked, and it's blank! There's nothing in the image at all. So, I mounted the empty image file as a loop device, copied the boot files in there and then the rest of the files in the distro archive. And lo, it works! It boots my VM just fine, and it's now running 7.01-08. All I need to do now is work out how to make the hard disk bootable, and I'm in business. The DR-DOS 7 SYS command won't do it, as the files aren't named IBMBIOS.COM and IBMSYS.COM -- they're DRBIO.SYS and DRSYS.SYS. I copied them to the expected names. SYS completes but the disk won't boot. Next step will be to try with Norton Disk Doctor. Anyway, if anyone wants a bootable diskette image with DR-DOS 7.01-08, complete with FAT32 support -- apparently it can even boot from it -- let me know. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:28:21 -0600 From: Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs Message-ID: <CAEfH1SFfc8ne599yLNgS2NJ4pS3TF_mba0CxZpMXuFXbyx2fEg at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Nov 16, 2017 21:16, "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote: I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if anyone wants them. They're not light. Oops, forgot to mention location. I'm in the USA, near Chicago. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:10:21 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CAMTenCFFB4RK7vJGqR=mupppQpwHPiMbuehL-BX_XYG5tJfOeg at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Might be more helpful to include downloads! I'm still working on VMs, but I know have bootable diskette images of both. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time either has been made available. DR-DOS 7.08 is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz8nrdv7h4sgr6o/drdep7018.zip?dl=0 You'll need the rest of DR-DOS 7.01 to install a complete OS but that's widely available. A bootable PC DOS 7.1 diskette image is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsujtvp0gs44qcx/PCDOS71.vfd?dl=0 This is a VirtualBox disk image, containing the PC-DOS 7.1 files from the IBM ServerGuide Scripting Toolkit, as made available by IBM and described here: http://toogam.com/software/archive/opsys/dos/ibmpcdos/getpcd71.htm If you get that first, AIUI that gives you a licence to a personal-use copy. I have not modified these files in any way except to combine the separately-downloadable files and the boot disk image, and to remove any non-PC DOS files from the disk image. Again, the rest of the OS must be taken from a copy of PC DOS 7.01. That too is widely available. Feedback welcomed. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:12:08 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CAMTenCH-N2WVbDffCsAdHixyMrm+cw1WBB=OqVoiR3WL7F=yJw at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It is *not* my day. I don't know how a copy-and-paste of some plain text magically acquired attachments; that was not intentional. My apologies. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:12:55 -0500 From: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CABGJBueQSQ2q_9P5qaX=iX_nuA0+8YCXfWY1hUc=qGwJzGs2Yg at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help if I am imaged and uploaded to my site? Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Nov 17, 2017 10:10 AM, "Liam Proven via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:35:13 -0500 From: Anders Nelson <anders.k.nelson at gmail.com> To: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? Message-ID: <CAJ2mpAg1Vwn1+cKZ2znQqu7U97k1kwViyc3L+Bj+ KnTcEJa6pg at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I mounted a core memory plane in a shadowbox from Target and used a large paperclip cut into sections as the mount hardware. Folded over and hot-glued one end to the read of the shadowbox backing, placed the memory plane at the desired height and folded over the other end of the paperclip section. I also put a piece of heatshrink tubing on the paperclip end that contacted the memory plane soas not to scratch it. Pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dzSX21lOC34MaJxm2 =] -- Anders Nelson +1 (517) 775-6129 www.erogear.com On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:25 AM, CuriousMarc via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 07:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1711170743080.30810 at deltasoft.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, william degnan via cctalk wrote: if Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've got a machine that I can build the original sources on. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:52:08 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CAMTenCEnjvFRMv6899eBOZBVcmCSkYQA0K9gcF+Ae0BDLTNnMw at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 17 November 2017 at 16:12, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote: if What I'd suggest is checking what's there first. :-) I have DR-DOS 6, from VetusWare. There's a copy on WinWorld but it's some homemade disks, lacking an installer, IIRC. I have physical media from the early 1990s somewhere! I have DR-DOS 7.01/02/03/04/05/8.0/8.1 mostly from WinWorld . I own an original open source release of 7.01, including sources, direct from Caldera, on CD. This is from before they changed their mind and back-pedalled. I have a full boxed copy of PC DOS 7. It was distributed with Microsoft Virtual PC, which itself is a free download now. So the VM is out there and freely available. My VM is built from the free download version, with ViewMax taken from the download of DR DOS 6. I have a working VM of PC DOS 7.1 but I'm still working on that. I don't currently have a bootable USB of it -- making new bootable volumes is non-trivial. It's not as simple as SYS or FORMAT /S, alas. Neither works. I don't think it was meant to, TBH. Ditto the later OEM releases of DR DOS 7.04/05 -- these were only on Disk Manager and PartitionMagic boot disks, AFAIK. The whole OS was not updated. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:03:25 +0100 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> To: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <CAMTenCFo9R+EHj9PxF-9xgFikXZQ1MdAyVaT37diA7GEmzT9M w at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 17 November 2017 at 16:44, geneb via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: got a Thanks! For now, I'm trying to avoid building anything. I believe that the build process is horribly complex -- I can find the link to a description of the horrors somewhere. Something like 9 different compilers are apparently used. So I hope not to need that, but appreciate the offer! What I am planning to do is combine the released boot files for PC-DOS 7.1 and DR-DOS 7.01-8, both with FAT32 and LBA support, with the rest of the released OSes of both, to make something as complete as possible. My plan is then to add on top of that a graphical shell -- DOSSHELL for PC DOS, ViewMax for DR DOS. And then add some useful shareware/freeware utilities and apps, to make a complete useful working environment, for example able to boot off a USB stick for a distraction-free, non-Internet-capable, writing tool. There seems to be considerable interest in such things these days, and of course, the problem with apps that provide distraction-free clean-screen writing/editing environments is that you can always just switch apps to something else. I have DESQview and DESQview/X running in a VM, but not on bare metal. QEMM seems to have problems on 21st century PC hardware, which is perhaps unsurprising. On one of my own Lenovo notebooks, I have a bootable partition with PC DOS 7.01, MS Word 6, WordPerfect 6.2, Norton Utilities and some other tools. With power management, but not networking or anything. This works for me, but they can't be distributed; they're licensed tools. MS Word 5.5 is a free download, though. I was planning to add tools such as PC Write, PC Outline, As-Easy-As, WordPerfect Editor, a Norton Commander clone -- stuff that _is_ distributable. I also need to add a current DOS antivirus, unfortunately. I think there still are some. The theory is to produce something functionally rich that runs in a VM -- because then I know the hardware environment and can configure things for it. And something much less functionally-rich that can boot and run off a USB stick on almost any hardware. DR-DOS should be re-distributable. PC DOS, I fear not, at least not fully legitimately. But my download diskette image contains nothing that IBM itself currently does not offer for free unrestricted download. I'm hoping that the company will tolerate that, at least. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:20:06 -0800 (PST) From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DR-DOS Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1711170817380.32638 at deltasoft.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, Liam Proven wrote: wrote: got a If you've got the same MRS disc that Roger sent me, you've got the whole build environment already. You can kick it off with a single command. The only caveat is that you need to boot into OpenDOS/DR-DOS in order to get enough free lower RAM to run the build process. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:04:07 -0800 From: Eric Schlaepfer <schlae at gmail.com> To: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <CAJEzEZGKGL0Yh8LuLnAVEBQmXWbY_3MjwFN6hx42bEDGvQNc5Q at mail. gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Check your email. How can you tell if it uses a 600 RPM mechanism or not? On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote: cctalk at classiccmp.org> out use my talk, other ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:24:00 +0000 From: Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s Message-ID: <CAJCrz550ajCzQuMz-t+zMF34Dk3YwtvwPCGU0Om9swUg- MkXhQ at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I was a student at Manchester University from 1974 to 1980. During that time I used the University of Manchester Regional Computer Centre (UMRCC) computer system. The so-called Joint System consisted of a CDC 7600 with an ICL 1906A front end. We used to submit card decks via a Systime (a PDP-11 clone, I believe) that functioned as a remote job entry service. I am trying to find out information about the structure of those card decks (mine were used for shopping lists years ago), and in particular, what the first card in the deck was that routed the job to the correct computer. I have found information about JOB cards for both ICL computers running George 3 and for the CDC 7600 running SCOPE 2.1 (which is what the computers ran), but I believe that neither of these gives the full story about what we used on the Joint System. Does anyone who used this system, or similar ones in the UK, recall anything relevant? If you have suggestions about where else to post this query, I would be grateful for that too. Cheers Peter Allan ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:26:05 -0400 From: Paul Berger <phb.hfx at gmail.com> To: Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <71be6676-c829-33e3-4e48-b3ca4eedcefc at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I just checked my 9122C I happen to have open and the interval between index pulses is 199.66mS? which would be 300 RPM, which is good news for me I can now proceed with adapting a more common 1.44 drive to replace my broken one. Paul. On 2017-11-17 1:04 PM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote: mechanism. cctalk at classiccmp.org> out use my talk, other ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:31:07 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711171829260.29647 at linuxserv.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, David Collins wrote: It was a wire for cutting polystyrene blocks. The current was a fews amperes, I think, driven off a bench power supply. Christian ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:57:36 -0800 From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s Message-ID: <0ba9f9e5-3b8d-cbbb-5d91-e1a9b9f10e48 at sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 11/17/2017 09:24 AM, Peter Allan via cctalk wrote: an decks the I can't help you with your specific case, other than to mention that Purdue University for a time used a 6500 front-ended by a couple of IBM 7094s (IIRC, and it's been a long time--could have been 7090s), that might give you a clue. The VIM community wasn't large. modified by various sites. I imagine that the corresponding code in the SCOPE 2.x JS code was similarly tweaked. --Chuck End of cctalk Digest, Vol 38, Issue 16 **************************************