27 Jun
2012
27 Jun
'12
9:01 a.m.
On 27 June 2012 05:50, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
That is not uncommon in the UK - although oddly it seems slightly
better than 2-3Y ago now. Not that this has done me any good at all
personally.
On 06/26/2012 01:23 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
?As am I. ?People are talking about it like it's the first small form
factor Linux machine.
It's the first at toy-level prices, perhaps.
?About
the Raspberry Pi in particular...I'm having a very hard time
getting excited about it. ?It's a neat board, to be sure, but it's only
the twentieth or thirtieth design just like it (and nobody got this
excited about its predecessors), and you can't actually GET one without
spending months on end on a waiting list.
I am a bit surprised by the sheer level of hype myself, but I think
the extreme cheapness is what is driving people.
?That must be it. ?See below.
This might be harder
to understand in America, where even in bad times, you guys typically
have lots more disposable income than we do -
?I'm afraid this hasn't been true for a while. ?Of my "top ten"
in-person friends, seven are unemployed, five have been unemployed for
more than two years, and eight have lost their homes. ?And they are all
educated professionals; most are engineers. ?I'm not trying to start an argument, but I must
assert that the
typical "everyone in America is rich" image that many people outside of
America seem to believe (NOT saying you said that, but it's along the
same lines) has never been true...but the American propaganda machine is
perfectly happy to propagate that rumor. ?Our roads and bridges are
crumbling, our homes are owned by banks and rotting/falling down due to
unoccupancy, adults are living with their parents (I understand this is
acceptable in other societies, especially in South America...we are very
different, it means "loser" here), the homeless population is
overrunning the public parks and soup kitchens...it really is quite a mess.
I can't say what things look like from an American POV. What I can say
is 2 things:
[1] It's broadly like that here, too, and the improvement, if any,
since it all went pear-shaped in 2008 is marginal.
[2] I wasn't saying "everyone in America is rich". What I was saying
is somewhat different: that many things in the USA are much cheaper
than they are in Europe and that this has been true for most of my
life, AFAICT. Most USAnians are largely or completely unaware of this.
(Additionally, USAnians seem to have more disposable income -
something that may have changed in recent times.)
Examples:
From this site:
http://www.newyorkstategasprices.com/
I am taking the price of a US gallon of petrol as about $3.50.
That is ?2.25.
A US gallon is 3.78 litres. That is 92? per litre or ?0.60 (60p) a litre.
From this site:
http://www.petrolprices.com/
... I am taking the UK price to be about ?1.30 a litre, that is, $2.02.
So in Britain, petrol - "gas" - is $7.63 a US gallon.
If you think things in the USA are bad now, imagine what would happen
if the price of gasoline went from $3.50 to over $7.50.
(My estimate of 4-5x was way off; forgive me, I do not own a car, have
not ridden a motorcycle in 5y now and have never used a motor vehicle
outside the UK. I have not bought petrol in many years; it is a fairly
meaningless metric to me personally.)
Compare a pair of Levi's 501s on Amazon US:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-k…
$43.
And on Amazon UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field…
?39.
?39 is $60.
40% more in the UK.
From my few visits to the US, you can regard this as
typical. Whatever
you pay for something, we will probably pay 40% to 100% more for
it.
It is not that the average USAnian makes more money or has more money.
It's that for all that US$1 = just UK?0.60, that $1 will buy as much
or more than that 60p would buy here.
Since pay rates are about the same - citations:
Average US, $47K
http://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/article/average-salary-in-united-states/…
Average UK, ?30K
http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-ave…
?30,000 is about ?47,000.
So we make about the same, but yours will buy you about 40-100% more
goods. *That* is a very big, real difference.
For what it's worth, the UK is not a particularly expensive country by
European standards. A cup of coffee in a caf? here might be ?1.50; in
Norway or Sweden, ?4 or so. A pint of beer in London is about
?3-?3.50; in Norway or Sweden, ?6-?7. There are cheaper countries than
here - a pint in the Czech Republic would be about 30-40p - but also
ones where everything is twice as expensive.
The average USAnian has a quality of life approaching that of the
richest, most expensive countries in the world, but the cost of living
is that of one of the cheaper countries in the developed West.
/That/ is what we get irked about. /That/ is why people get jealous and bitter.
?Thanks, Wall Street...and my stupid fellow Americans
for living beyond
their means and shopping at WalMart, so our money goes straight to
China, never to return.
Welcome to the C21. The same is happening across the developed world.
?Yes, this is true. ?It has never happened at this
price point. ?I have
a slightly more powerful machine that I paid, I think, $80 for two years
ago. (no silver spoon here, that was a big stretch!) ?The only real
difference about the Raspberry Pi is that it's very, very inexpensive.
?Still, that's not what people SAY about it. ?They go on and on about
how unbelievably awesome it is...So small, power sipper, graphics
capability, networking, real OS, blah blah blah. ?For the things people
actually SAY about it, it is far from unique!
Ah, but because of its fame, it's appealing to people who don't really
know anything much about computers. The R? has a crappy, low-power CPU
and not much RAM, but a good powerful GPU which is sadly proprietary,
undocumented and with closed-source drivers. However, it's a good stab
at a minimum spec which will run Linux with a GUI and a desktop.
?True, but any old PC that one can pick up for free on
trash day meets
all these requirements, and is even cheaper. ?Just larger and more
power-hungry.
Yes, but [a] it's not cool or trendy or new, [b] it's big and ugly and
boring, [c] it will require some expertise to refurbish and get
working, [d] it will be easily damaged by knocking it over or blocking
its vents. And it will cost a lot to run.
Cost of electricity in the USA: 11? per kWh
Cost of electricity in the UK: 22? per kWh
Citation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Global_electricity_price_c…
As I said, assume /everything/ here is about twice as expensive.
Kids seem to be finding the prospect of a tiny, cheap computer /just
for them/ which they can play with and which it doesn't matter if
they break appealing and enticing.
Also, adults are using them for lots of fun projects:
Robot planes (article by me):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/12/raspberry_pi_drone/
Robot boats:
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/06/27/raspberry_pi_skippers_journey_across_…
You could not do stuff like this with an old PC.
?The board I have is similar to a Beagleboard
(it's a "Hawk Board").
More expensive, yes. ?I guess that really is the difference...but as
above, that's not what everyone talks about when they rant and rave
about the Raspberry Pi. ?It seems to have gotten some sort of bizarre
cult status almost overnight, and I think that's just weird.
It is a bit, but that is fashion for you. The world of trends and
fashion is perhaps one that seldom impacts your average geek. ;?)
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
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