24 Apr
2002
24 Apr
'02
3:18 p.m.
It depends on where you put the boundary of the enclosure. In the case of the
VAXen we had once upon a time, since the computer occupied multiple racks, and
the PSU's/UPS' occupied multiple racks, the building was the enclosure.
Nothing from DEC could be considered inexpensive to be a toy, though.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:34 PM
Subject: "Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
An
easy way to spot a product intended for the toy market as opposed to
one intended to be seen as a computer, is that the disk drive interface
is external.
You're calling the entire DECstation 5000/2xx line "products intended
for the toy market as opposed to one intended to be seen as a computer",
since they have no internal mass storage.
I'm not so sure I understand what Dick is asserting here... If he means
"no internal mass storage; all disks external", I think we can all come up
with a raft of exceptions (from my own collection, DECMate I, VAX-11/750,
PDP-11/70, VAX 8200, PDP-8/L, MINC-11... hardly computers for the "toy
market"). One might argue that mini-computers would not be confused
with toys, but from a form-factor standpoint, A DECmate-I CPU, for example,
is smaller than a TRS-80 Model III. A MINC-11 isn't particularly large
compared to a full-tower case (and the BA32 that contains is about the
same size; the 42" rack just has room for cables; no active components).
If he means "no internal mass storage interface", he might have something
of a point. Ignoring audio cassette, I can think of few computers more
complicated than a traditional "single-board" computer that lack an in-
cabinet mass storage interface. The PET, VIC-20 and C-64 all interface
to disks (floppy _and_ fixed (D9060/D9090 for the PET, anyway)) without
any sort of hardware or ROM pgrade, but the disk is external. The ZX-80-
family lacks any sort of internal disk interface. The Elf, the VIP, the
KIM, SYM, AIM-65, etc., all SBCs and all lacking disk interfaces. Non-
Zorro-equipped Amigas (A1000, A500, A500+) have floppy but not hard disk
interfaces in-box, but the A600 and A1200 have 44-pin internal IDE ports.
Does that make the A500 a toy, but not the A600?
I would propose that the label "toy" might be suitable for machines that
have external disk controllers _and_ an external network interface (if
any; I'll bend and accept a serial port as a network interface if it runs
some network protocol - SLIP, PPP, LocalTalk, DDCMP...) I'm not sure
how to classify single-boards, though. By the nature of them being
simplistic in design and user-interface, they appeal to the electronics
hobby market more than the home/kids market. Kids wanted a TI-99/4 or
a VIC-20 or a C-64. Kids were not so enthusiastic about a Z-80 starter
kit (which happens to have two S-100 slots and an intergral EPROM
burner) or a KIM-1 or a COSMAC Elf.
Mind you, I love toy computers. They have been fun and profitable for
me. Others, though, need that "bittybox" label to glorify whatever
they like at the expense of others. Let's at least agree on what
constitutes a "toy", even in the most general of terms.
Meanwhile... Back To The Toys!
-ethan
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