A tree to grow (Was: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule))

Haveing taken a day of, I stil lthink I should set some things in perspective. Am 29 Aug 2006 9:51 meinte Jay West: Now, lets just skip some of the more of the rather arrogant satements (my impression here) in your note and refresh my Memory. I got to this list when it was a rather small group. That muyt have been arround late 1997, since Sallam pointed me short after VCF 1.0 here. I joined with a letter to Bill Whiton (sp?), who founded this list not long before. later on I lerned that one of the main reasons that lead to greating this list was the rather questionable handling of strict policies about what's on topic for a 'classic' group in the relevant usenet group (a..f.c ?). I was given a warm wellcome, and what I found was a small group of rather unique and mature people. People that did have a real life, quite a difference to some tight bean counters often found. This rich vault of knowledge not only includes profound computer knowledge, but was eualy visible when the topics discussed went astray. I may not have agreed to quite some topics or viewpoints stated, quite in contrast, but this was one of the very apealing parts of this list. Other than in other places, the people where not steamlined - or more correct filtered out to leave a boring bunch of likeminded. The fact that people who would otherwise maybe never even thought of each other not only cooperated on a very narrowed down topic but rather shared their view and ideas made this list unique among any other I ever been on. Discusions happened on multi levels instead of just hitting each others head, as in most such groups. Mature in every sense of the word. And even the most firce discusion about weapons or cars came in a natural way all back sooner or later to our core topic. I don't remember any intervention of Bill at all. There was no ruling beside two things - The 10 year rule and asking Bill in a nice way to be on the list. This freedom made the list grow. I've been on quite a lot of other lists during the same years, and most died - in my understanding due to much restrictions and atemts to rule. Over the years Bill moved ahead, not realy able anymore to maintain the list active. As one change, subscription became automatic. The basic list culture stayed the same. Since Bill left his former work, the future wasn't secure, and at some point the hosting would have ended. This is where Jay stood up and offered his service to host the list. As far as I remember, there was a geat understanding that the list gets moved to a new server and will be run as the same great forum it has been before. When Jay needed additional support and hardware, he got all support he needed. Any yes, I (and I guess we all) apreciate the effort Jay took to keep the list going on. It was the right thing to do. Ther's no doubt about. Just somewhere on the road the it changed from maintaining a service to the community to an attitude to rule it and force things instead of letting it flow. You are using the term 'took over' yourself, and 'owner' (I somehow missed the moment when the list got sold) ... well, grabbing things and force one opinion onto others sounds not realy mature to me. There's a huge diference between takeing resonsibility and takeing over. In my humble understanding, the list has never become or been your property. If there is any 'owner' who might rule on his own ground, so it is the people. What about just going back to what this list was founded on, freedom and real people? To me such efforts are like planting a tree. One may take a little seed, plant it, look daily after it, use lots of torture devices, cut it all arround, controll every little aspect, and if realy good at it - and lucky - one gets a cute bonsai tree. Just, most of us are lacking the decades of training, and needed discipline and daily routine to get more out than a crippled tree. Or one may just plant a little oak tree in a good spot near a river and let it grow. Walk by every other year to watch it grow to a mighty Oak. It might not become a cadidate for a beauty contest, it may lean to some side, have twisted arms and a rough outside, but it will be a strong and sturdy tree. Only the freedom to grow will make it the Oak it is supposed to be. A place to walk by, a great shade in the hot days, and a secure place to sit down and watch your children grow. Now, Jay, since you took it onto your person, all I ask is to take a step back, think a moment about what is the foundation - for the list and your work - do the right thing ... mabe a few hours under the shadow of a large tree on a beautiful late August day. And have a great one Hans -- VCF Europa 8.0 am 28/29.April 2007 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/