11 May
2009
11 May
'09
5:44 p.m.
************************ Reply:
M H Stein wrote:
What dumb argument? Yes, one of the points of a list like this is to ask
for and give help, but even in this day and age concepts like "please" and
"thank you" and showing appreciation instead of complaining and taking
others and their contributions for granted still have some value.
The OP asked for information and help about 22disk and IMD and despite
the denigrating tone of his questions the authors of both of these programs
took the time to answer his questions at length and in detail, enabling him
to resolve his issues, and apparently someone on this list also took the
time to send him the TD disks that he asked for.
What are his final words on the issue? Appreciation for those people and
this list which gave him access to them?
No, now that he got what he needed from the list he tells us, "I'm getting
real, real tired of the tone on this list and will probably take a break from
any posting here. Now I'm beginning to understand why folks like Sellam left."
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
If Chuck and Dave and the person who sent the disks had the same attitude
and had left the list (and, considering the crap that Dave has had to put up
with in the past I wouldn't blame him at all) then OP would still be staring
at his 820 paperweight.
When someone suggests to OP that his negative tone and attitude might
annoy some people who might then be less eager to help him next time,
then that might be seen as an opportunity to improve those "bad interpersonal
skills" that you mention, instead of evoking a defensive response...
m
---------------------------
Nice to know at least one person gets what I was trying to say!
I thought that there are two CCTalk lists: CCTalk for on *and* off topic posts, and
CCTech for only on-topic posts. Therefore, I don't get why a few people have posted
or emailed me insulting and provocative messages trying to push me around about what or
what not to read and post (eg. Gordon). I only take posting orders from list moderators
or owners. I'd been following the Xerox thread as I have some knowledge about it, but
began to have reactions to how the OP Steven was utilizing the membership-at-large.
I've only posted two "reactions" emails -- the few others were either
on-topic, jokes, or explanation-of-jokes.
I'm acquainted with this OP. I typically enjoy his posts in other groups, and have
helped him out before, even once by testing video equipment he mailed to my house. So
why my reactions?
Putting aside Steve for a moment, once in awhile, I witness an OP come along and take
these mailing lists and online groups for granted.. treating the really wonderful and
astonishingly knowledgeable and smart people of these groups as *only*
"resources" to do their bidding. There are "regulars" of this kind of
behavior, and then there are those who just occasionally forget their manners due to
excitement or having a rough time in life.
Further, at these times, the "resources" are seemingly expected to drop
everything they're doing like they're some help desk, and respond ASAP for
whatever is needed since the OP's particular project is of the greatest import and
urgency. Lastly, after the OP has usually managed to guilt-induce or otherwise garnish
an incredible outpouring of help from the "resources," almost without fail the
OP then expresses little to no appreciation! What??!
Every time I witness this pattern, it amazes me. Well, I know it's not my job to
protect memberships, but dammit, if something bothers me, I don't see why I
shouldn't say something. Feedback between humans is essential for growth, period.
Here's an example: if women had never told me how incredibly stupid I was being with
them in my 20's and early 30's, I'd have never matured. I'd still be
pining away as one girlfriend after another leaves me, without knowing why. Luckily, a
few women were brave enough to slam me with the truth. It eventually hit home, I slowly
grew up, and women stopped leaving me as quickly or at all (unless I wanted them to..
lol).
Back to OP Steve. His approach (on this particular topic *only*) warranted feedback,
plain and simple. He was coming across as spoiled, impatient, humourless, and bad moody.
Not in every post. But in enough. "The real real tired of tone on list"
comment was last straw for me. A huge outpouring of help, one little comment from me
trying to encourage him to push himself a little harder, and now the TONE of this entire
list is TIRING? Well, to that implied FU, FU too!
My resultant comments, as Battle politely and privately pointed out to me, perhaps should
have been emailed privately. Maybe I goofed, or maybe the feedback has more impact if
it's public. Who knows.
If an OP is going to denigrate the whole group and pack up their toys and go home just
because ONE guy gives them a smidgeon of feedback they find unpleasant, despite the
vastly greater benefits they derived, then maybe that's just what they need to do.
It's their call whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot or not.
Human interaction IS MESSY. It's always got good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant,
elegance and sloppiness. I say, deal with it, listen to it, learn from it, be thankful
it's there at all.
jS