All,
Figures I'd be out of town when this topic came up; I'd been
waiting for a quiet moment to ask about them as well.
I remember *lusting* for a digital group system just before dad
bought a TRS-80 Model 1. (He was right, Tandy made systems for a lot longer
than digital group did. :-()
digital group chassis had a backplane bus which could accomodate
processor cards carrying any of the 4 processor architectures mentioned by
Sam (6502, 6800, 8080, and the super-powerful chip of the future Z-80).
They offered a storage system using cassette tapes but recording to them
digitally, not tone-encoded, which they called the phi-deck (I think). They
sold a separate cabinet which would hold up to 4 of those, for a pretty
large (for those days) total storage - over a megabyte, if I recall
correctly.
They sold a fair selection of software. I recall OASIS (sic?) as
the name of one of the operating systems, and OPUS-1 and OPUS-2 as the
names of two levels of a programming language (I think).
I trashed my promotional literature describing all of this years
and years ago, once we decided to go the TRS-80 route. Sigh. If anyone can
amplify or correct any of this, or better yet has a working system, I'd
love to hear more about it.
Oh yes, there was a picture of one of the cabinets on the cover of
Byte magazine just before they went out of business. Along with many other
systems, suspended in space around a shattering crystal goblet with the
Title "Breaking the Sound Barrier". The cover story was about computers
with sound-generation capability. This would be maybe 1-2 years after the
introduction of the Z-80, I'd guess, but don't remember better than that.
More and better information, anyone?
- Mark
Technically, everyone is wrong. Now, if he gave you the disks/manuals/etc.
and did the upgrade, he'd be wrong. If you didn't upgrade, you'd be in the
clear. You were a pirate before, a pirate now, and will always be a pirate
if you keep the upgrade installed and use it.
I guess that leaves only one thing to say: Arrgh! Join the crew, matey! :P
But if you got the disks from an entirely anonymous source, you wouldn't
know the history behind the software, and you could use the software with a
slightly less guilty conscience if you were so inclined. Everything is
relative, no two cases are the same, and some leeway needs to be taken into
consideration where software "piracy" is concerned. I think there's a
pretty big grey area there, IMHO.
At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz
>software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks
>for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives
>me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc.
>
>Who (if anyone) is wrong?
>
>Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original
>disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate
>before?
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Please contact Mr. Grier directly if you're interested. Thanks!
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:34:42 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Aaron J. Grier" <agrier(a)poofy.goof.com>
>To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG, port-pmax(a)NetBSD.ORG
>Subject: tk50s up for grabs in Portland, OR
>Sender: port-vax-owner(a)NetBSD.ORG
>Delivered-To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG
>
>
>in the basement of the Reed College library, there's a wall of tk50s which
>are being tossed. (All have been run through a bulk-eraser...)
>
>If you can get 'um before the custodians come and trash them, they're
>yours. (I've already got my fill.) Drop me an email, and I can meet you
>to help carry them to your vehicle.
>
><sigh> at least they'll be giving away the hardware to students...
>
>----
> Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofy.goof.com
> agrier(a)reed.edu | agrier(a)metro.grumblesmurf.net | ...!reed!vla!agrier
> DECBEE65 0DEE3A0C 1ED7F54D 9E023CC4 and 0x0663D1A9 at a server near you.
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i
plugged it in, it worked"
I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one.
Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i
want it.
Andrew
Hello,
My company currently has several examples of antique computers,
software, and various hardware pieces from the early eighties on.
We tend to hold onto things in our warehouse and have accumulated boxes
of stuff. Some items include:
Apple Lisa (one 3.5 drive) unknown model
Apple III (one of my personal favorites)
Tons of Apple Hardware including II+, IIe, and GS carcases
AE Hardware (remember the Ram Charger and Vulcan Hardrives?)
Different Upright Macs including 128's, 512's, and the Plus
We used to sell a bunch of this stuff in the late eighties, and most of
these items were returned without packaging and such, so we could never
get refunds for them.
I would be interested in receiving an e-mail from someone to discuss the
values of some of these items.
Thanks
--
Sincerely,
Thomas Veselenak
Product Development Manager
Scantron Quality Computers
Brighter Paths
20200 9 Mile Rd.
St. Clair Shores MI, 48080
Phone: 800-777-3642 Ext. 712
Fax: 810-774-2698
>These were commonly advertised in the back of _BYTE_ and other computer
>magazines in the late 70's and early 80's. Is there any indication of
>a manufacturer or brand name for the case?
>
>Tim.
Not that I can see. The panneling is made of wood (I got i off my trunk and
can take a closer look), it looks like a home job (a well done one).
Fran?ois.
Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK
web site file library...
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:27 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please!
>
> >
> > Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking
> > machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage.
> Onscreen, I
> > have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an
> arrow
>
> I have an Apricot F1 Technical Manual here, mainly because it's the only
> thing that I've found that's at all relevant to the Apricot PC which I
> have.
>
> > pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing.
> > When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and
> a
> > number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any
> proud
>
> OK, here's the error table from Appendix A of the manual :
>
> Boot ROM Error codes :
> 20 ROM checksum test
> 22 SIO register test
> 25 RAM test
> 28 Floppy Controller test
> 29 CTC clock chip test
> 33 Clock interrupt test
> 35 Drive 0 test (can it step correctly?)
>
> Disk Error codes :
> 2 Drive not ready, or disk removed during boot
> 4 CRC error, corrupt sector
> 6 Seek Error, unformatted or corrupt disk
> 7 Bad media, corrupt media block
> 8 Sector not found, unformatted or corrupt disk, bad load address in label
> 11 bad read, corrupt data field on disk
> 12 disk failure, disk hardware or media fault
> 99 Non-system disk. Not a valid boot disk
>
> I assume you are using an Apricot boot disk. This machine, while based on
> the 8086 and running MS-DOS, is certainly not a PC-clone. According to
> the manual, this machine uses double-sided 80 track 720K disks (my,
> older, machine uses single-sided disks).
>
> I don't know if boot disks for other Apricot machines will work. The
> hardware is somewhat different (the F1 doesn't have the 8089 'I/O
> coprocessor' (a fancy DMA chip) that's fitted on the PC).
>
> If you are using an Apricot boot disk, I'd firstly try a different one,
> and then suspect disk drive or disk controller problems. The Apricot uses
> a Western Digital 2797 disk controller. There's a few tweakers associated
> with this chip as well.
>
> > Any help appreciated.
> > Cheers
> > Andrew
> >
> >
>
> -tony
I also need alignment for a drive on my 8800b. I have the documentation and procedures plus the MITS program to step to a specific track. In addition to an oscilloscope, one tool needed for alignment is a hammer! The biggest problem will be finding an alignment diskette. The Pertec drives are 32-hard-sectored eight-inch. Most eight-inch drives are soft-sectored. Assuming your drives are one drive per case, they are probably a FD410 with a DC motor. If your drives are two drives per case, they are probably FD511s with a AC motor. Both drives can read the same diskettes. I also have a supply of blank diskettes.
I would appreciate any suggestions on locating an alignment diskette. I would also like to hear from anyone with working drives. I would like backup and add to my MITS software collection.
Tom Sanderson
wts(a)exo.com
http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment
From: "Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:13:10 +1100
Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me
that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk
drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment
disk is required.
I suspect an oscilloscope as well.
I have two questions;
1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of
whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself
2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required.
Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the
same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I
suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life.
I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but
one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2
when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is
operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later.
Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no?
Cheers
Andrew
> AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous
> version at the dealer to order the upgrade.
Not any more . I have a customer who has her old disks.
>
I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them
as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic
equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few
cents worth of gold.
While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes
me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of
us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are
much more constructive.
I've attached a post from a recycler. He may or may not be willing to
sell useful and undamaged parts as well. Those who are interested, please
contact him directly.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500, in
misc.industry.electronics.marketplace you wrote:
>>Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!news(a)tiac.net
>>From: "Jim Sciuto" <goldtek(a)juno.com>
>>Newsgroups: alt.electronics,alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard,aus.electronics,comp.sci.electronics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,japan.handmade.electronics,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace
>>Subject: Millions in Gold From Old Computer Equipment
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500
>>Organization: Goldtek
>>Lines: 57
>>Message-ID: <6bt5cb$3ht(a)news-central.tiac.net>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts3.danve.ma.tiac.com
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360"
>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
>>Xref: Supernews70 alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard:2371 aus.electronics:9618 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:202541 japan.handmade.electronics:133 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:11083
>>
>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>
>>------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360
>>Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>
>>
>>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can =
>>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more =
>>information visit my web site.=20
>>
>>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jim=20
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
