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101090 discussions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 15:26, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > I'm already doing it to an extent. I have a 10x20 room in the middle > of my house. Sounds pretty cool... > This room is not quite ideal; it could be bigger. I've had some sort of workshop or hobby room in every house I've lived in, and I've noticed there seem to be only two sizes: too small, and not big enough. > away with that. Also if I was building from scratch, I think I would > do the raised-floor thing. Maybe use aluminum diamondplate squares. > (or not... I do walk around barefoot in there a lot) Don't, it's cold and noisy, and actually less strong than most computer flooring. I had the choice of carpet-tiled floor panels or vinyl. If you could get linoleum instead of vinyl, that's even better (more expensive, though). I went for vinyl because it's easier to sweep than a carpet (in a workshop, where there's sawdust and metal swarf) and much easier to lift vinyl-covered panels (the panel lifter is a suction device like the ones glass workers use for large sheets of glass) than carpet (velcro-backed lifters work on some types, but most use metal teeth to bite into the carpet tile). I was also put off by experience at work: the hardware techs tell me that the failure rate on PSUs and fans has risen three-fold since we moved from a building with a vinyl-surfaced flooring to one with carpet (more dust). However, carpet is much better acoustically. > In this house the floors are concrete and all at the same height, so > I'd rather keep it that way rather than having to step up into the > computer room. It doesn't cost much to have a layer of concrete screeding added. The utility room which occupies the part of the garage I didn't get, plus the extension, is 4" concrete screed on top of 2" expanded polystyrene insulation/damp-proofing, to make the two floors the same level. If it's not practical to raise the floor elsewhere, you might consider excavating the middle room a few inches. Damp isn't a big issue unless the level would be below the water table; in my room, there was an extra damp-proof layer added (basically thick polythene sheet) bonded into the existing damp-proof course in the original brick walls (and the interior layer, which is 4"x2" timber framing with glass fibre fill, set 2" back from the brickwork, sits on top of that, one layer of the sheeting continuing up the inside of the brickwork for a couple of feet). There's a 5" step up to our new utility room; that's very little really, but I'm going to build a small ramp so I can trundle a rack or the trolley in and out (I sometimes take stuff to University Open Days and suchlike). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 11 months

College

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Passer, Michael <PasserM(a)umkc.edu> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:48 PM Subject: OT: College >degree. Doing so right after high school is the path of >least resistance--it _is_ harder when you're older (from >experience). However when older it can be a more directed activity. >have filled that time--such as having served in the Peace >Corps, the military, or a real-world job--that might just >have made a person who waited to go to college appreciate >the opportunity laid before them. A person who did such a >thing may well be a better candidate for it. Big time. >While there is no shortage of the kind of people >who will not take a second look at those whose resumes >don't fit the mold, there are also plenty of others less >closed minded who would likely be more satisfying to >work for. so very true. Those are the people willing to offer challenges that both benefit the business and the people. Allison

25 years, 11 months

PDP-11/44 on eBay

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Well, it says "do not assme item includes anything other than what is shown in the pictures" and the pictures clearly show the cardcage full of cards, so I wouldn't worry too much. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 11 months

Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Howdy all, Another free for all question: How much time do you devote searching for old machines? How much time "Playing" (fixing, using etc...) these machines? I've found lately that when I'm done with the rounds (that is when I can do the rounds) I usually don't have time to do the play and the machine often end up on a shelf (or floor or table or....) until I finaly free myself up. Also as the collection grows I have less time to spend with each machine and some don't get out anymore (C64, C128, ADAM etc...). It seems that the longer the setup time the less likely the machine is going to be used. I used to try to get one representative of each group easilly accessible but it is now impossible. What do you do? How do you manage your "quality" time with your machines? Do you feel guilty for neglecting that old (insert machine name here)? Francois

25 years, 11 months

Available: RL02K-DC disk pack

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody have a use for an RL02K-DC disk pack? In original box, even. I had intended to make it into a clock, but the shock meter isnt red yet, and it would be a sin to destory a still-usable piece of no-longer-made media... Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+

25 years, 11 months

Your dream computer room.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 17:22, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Peter Turnbull wrote: > > Six weeks ago was the point at which it all got moved out, > > and the conversion/extension work began. By this weekend, > <extreme jealousy> Well, I can temper that a little, maybe :-) Firstly, it's smaller than it sounds, and secondly, this is the culmination of 10 years saving to do it: when we moved here 10 years ago, it was obvious that the garage was designed to be extended to the house, joining the car port and leaving the latter as the garage (it would then be fully enclosed). However, the week we got the keys, I was made redundant, and all plans/dreams were put on hold. After a while I went back to uni to finish my degree[1], and it wasn't at all clear that we'd stay in York when I graduated. I got a job on a 2-year contract as a sysadmin at the uni, still no security, and meanwhile my wife was doing a weekly commute to work in Edinburgh (200 miles away) because she had too good a job to give up. So we continued to save any spare money, and last year my job was made permanent (with a raise) at about the same time my wife landed a good job in Yorkshire. We spent quite a while chewing over plans before we decided to call the builder, organise a loan, and the garage plus small extension is now (nearly) a computer room-cum-workshop and a utility room (for the washing machine, freezer, etc). A lot was done "on the cheap". I got the flooring from someone who reclaims such things from old buildings; a friend was buying a large quantity and I got mine extra cheap -- but I had to spend a weekend with a blowtorch removing the old glue from the supports, wire brushing them, and a day getting them cut down to size and so on. Another day sorting out good panels from bad (on top of 7' stacks) and moving them 25 miles (and they're heavy!). I got the modular shelf supports as surplus, from another building project, along with locks and door fittings I wanted. I got a lot of network cable and fittings cheaply, over a period of time. I got a patch panel free, a while ago, for example. A local kitchen unit supplier has a 50%-or-more-off sale -- guess where I got the cupboard units. My 5" metalworking vice was a "found object" several years ago. [1] Actually, to start again from scratch. First time around, I went to University straight from school, realised partway through 1st year I'd made a bad course choice, and gave up. Anyway, it was so many decades ago that it counted for zero credit. > Ok. Let's start a fun thread for a change. Who among us didn't > spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal > "fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient > time/money/space? Much what I'm doing now, but bigger, of course :-) The new room is 2.7 metres (9') by 4.6m (15'). One side is computer space, the other side will have my drill, miniature lathe, electronics bench, workbench and vise, etc. Only about 1/2 - 2/3 of my collection of micros will fit and be usable, and there's no room for the PCB developing tanks I acquired, nor for my photographic tanks and enlarger. Nearly all the DEC equipment will fit in the two racks. Honest. OK, maybe something will have to go on top. What did that brochure say the maximum floor loading was? I'd make it two rooms, each about 10' x 15', one for computers, the other for electronics/photo/mechanics. Or maybe the PCB and photo stuff should be separate again, away from the dust. Lots of power sockets in both; let's say one twin socket per linear foot of wall. Surge and RFI suppressors, of course, and separate circuits for computers/electronics/tools. RCD on the tools but maybe not the minis. Network connections (or rather, structured wiring, since some will be used for serial or control lines) everywhere, even beside the lathe (maybe I'll use those stepper motors one day). One bench with a built-in light box. Floor-to-ceiling shelves, fully adjustable, in units 600mm wide (2') and 700mm deep for all the micros. And their monitors! I'd want about 4 of those units (I will have 2). Make them strong (the brackets in mine are rated for a 67kg load). Space to walk all round the 19" racks (I'll have about 20" behind mine, accessible from one side only). A place to put the microfiche reader where I can use it with moderate comfort (it used to be on top of a 5' high shelf unit!). Desk space for a few favourite machines, and a trolley with 'scope, BBC Micro, terminal and printer, and of course make sure there's space to wheel it around to where it's needed. Plenty of bookshelves - I have a full set of RSX manuals, two sets of RT11, one Solaris, lots of other Unix, Acorn, programming, and networking stuff, and shelfloads of data books. I just had to turn down a couple of shelfloads of SGI manuals because I have no room left :-( Leave some wall space for a noticeboard and/or whiteboard. Air conditioning would be nice, but I've settled for a large(ish) extractor fan. No budget left! Heating is, of course, largely by minicomputer :-) though now there is a small central heating radiator and we have a portable dehumidifier which I used to use to keep the workshop air dry (cheaper than heating, and saves a lot of tools from condensation/damp damage). Good lighting -- I'd go for those fluorescent fittings with the aluminium diffuser grids built in if I could afford it (they're about 70 UKP a throw). Ah well, next time around ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 11 months

PDP-11/44 on eBay

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

Someone just listed an 11/44 on eBay today; the URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=369721415 System seems to include no disk or tape other than "dual tape drives" (e.g., dual TU58's ...). It has no bids right now, so I couldn't even make a guess at what the reserve is. I'd bid on it myself, if I had a reasonable way to get it to the East Coast .... --Pat.

25 years, 11 months

Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I've asked around at a couple of prominent computer museums, but >> they all just shrug their shoulders when I ask them how they >> archive and index the original software, like they've never considered >> it to be important. I really feel like I'm talking to all the >> wrong curators, because they seem to have no interest in the subject >> at all. >Assumptions like these don't take into account lack of staff or lack of >funding for such projects. I'm sure that's a good part of it. Another part of it is that I get the sense that most of the curators don't trust anyone else with what software they do have (whether it be punched cards or paper tape) and they'd rather just let it sit and rot away rather than do something to archive it. I'm not exactly a newbie to the field of archiving software and data - for example, the DECUS PDP-10 and PDP-11 software collections I maintain represent several thousand input tapes and floppies covering the last five decades, and Mentec will shortly be issuing CD's containing DEC PDP-11 OS archives I've archived over the years - but I get the feeling that I'm not "a member of the club" when it comes to dealing with museums and other archives. Maybe my technical background (physics, math, and computers) puts me at a severe disadvantage compared to folks who are trained to be museum curators or librarians. Whatever the reason, so far most of my offers to volunteer my equipment and time to archive the old software is simply ignored. Sometimes I get a polite letter back, but never do I get the impression that there's some coherent plan to usefully archive the old software. In some cases I'm told that archiving is flat out impossible for technical reasons (I once had a heated debate with a SI curator who insisted that 8" floppies couldn't be read or written anymore.) Or maybe I feel too strongly that all the stuff should be archived, and my strong feelings immediately put me in the "crackpot" category as far as museum curators are concerned. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 11 months

Choose Dumpster #1, Dumpster #2, Dumpster #3

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

For me something about dumpsters seems to have a siren call like mermaids luring ships on the rocks. My son laughs every time I'm driving down the street and all of a sudden announce, "is that a full dumpster over there?" My feeling is that when somebody puts stuff in the dumpster they are "saying it has no value", I just want to prove them wrong. Having the "eye" to find the value in the trash, to recognize "good stuff". I'm like an archeologist walking through an area looking at rocks hoping to find the fossil missing link. The auction location scenario is a contest to see who can discern the "true" value of stuff and convince everyone else to drop out. The vintage machine and software that may be for sale seem to be more of a "known" commodity. Maybe it's the adventure, the thrill of discovery, the agony of lifting trash to find the pearl. I haven't had a breakdown yet but it could be caused if I had to choose between 3 dumpsters being approached by a single trash truck. Wait a minute it could be worse, 3 dumpsters each being approached by a trash truck. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 11 months

Your dream computer room.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> >spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal >"fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient >time/money/space? Wooha, now there a blue sky idea. Simple though, 1000sqft with net power drops from the ceiling, floor would not be raised but work benches for smaller systems plus a rolling work bench for doing repair work. One wall would be manuals and spares. Oh yes, Air conditioning for the bigger boxen and me too. Allison

25 years, 11 months

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