Hi Guys,
Well --- I played with these two machines this evening.
Case anyone missed my original posting - as part of a sizable load
of equipment I picked up this past weekend, I received two homebrew
S-100 systems which are reported to be complete implementations
of a TRS-80 on S-100 cards.
They had been stored for a long time in a cottage, so they were
quite dirty (fortunately no evidence of mice!) - Removed all cards,
cleaned up the slots and connections, checked out the power supply,
reinserted the cards, hooked up a Zenith monitor and fired the
first one up...
Immediately got a "Cass?" prompt, then "Memory size?", and finally:
Radio Shack Model III BASIC
.... normal Model III stuff ...
READY
>
yup - the thing actually works!
This one has:
WAMECO CPU-2 Z80 CPU card
SSM VB1B video card, with fairly extensive modifications, presumably
to make it TRS-80 video compatible.
A standard S-100 memory card (didn't write the type down).
A homebuilt card which has EPROM copies of the TRS-80 ROMs, as well as
a fair bit of logic, speaker circuit, keyboard interface --- I would
guess "Everything else" from the TRS-80.
So, I moved on to the second one - this one has the same cards as the
one above, plus a homebuilt disk controller card. Cleaned it up, checked
the supply, powered it up and --- NOTHING!
Then I remembered that you need to hold BREAK at reset/power-up on TRS-80s
with disks to get to ROM basic ... Tried holding BREAK and voila! - same
prompts as above!
So, I hooked up the drives, powered on - sure enough, Drive 1 came on...
Put in a TRS-DOS disk for the Model III, and hit reset --- Next thing
I know, I'm in TRS-DOS, running exactly like a Model III.
!!!
As Sellam put it so eloquently ... this things are effing cool!
Will take pics this weekend, and try to get them (and more of the new stuff)
on the site sometime next week - will post a notice when ready.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
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Cheers
John
>the attraction is to all the people that burn themselves WHENEVER they
>pick up a soldering iron...
I thought those burns where a right of passage in using an iron!?!
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>From: chris <cb(a)mythtech.net>
>
>>Still, they seem to be selling like mad, but if they're no good for
>>electronics then what's the attraction?
>
>Yeah, I was a little surprised to see in their FAQ's that they say it is
>NOT recommended for electronics use... considering the commercial CLEARLY
>shows a person using it on electronics!
>
>I guess its another example of do as a I say and not as I do (eh, who am
>I kidding, all these "as seen on TV products" use them on TV in ways that
>they tell you not to use them)
>
Hi
It is something like the Sears ad where they took
a pair of pliers to the axle nut of a bicycle. They
even used one of the people that ran a house fixer-up
show to do it. He should have been ashamed of him
self. I couldn't believe they were actually doing
it with a smile.
Dwight
I was in Well territory in 1988.
--
When I was on, it was a vax 750 running BSD with just the start
of all that community stuff. I just used it for mail and reading
news, from a normal shell.
--
The Foothill/Wierd/Halted thing was too damn great.
--
Weird Stuff in Milpitas was great. That was where I found
most of my Xerox stuff. With 20/20 hindsight (and more space)
I should have grabbed things like the PDP12 that came in and
the PERQ 1.
Halted didn't (and still doesn't) do much for me. I got to
know the last batch of folks running Haltek pretty well, and
I was the one that bought their data book collection when they
were forced out.
> The earliest
> development software was full of Xerox copyright notices...
The only direct connection I can think of (which wouldn't have
contained Xerox copyrights) was Bill Duval's assembler, which
was developed on an Alto. The SUMACC port of PCC would have had
lots of MIT/ATT (c)'s, though.
There may have been some Silicon Valley Software (c)'s in things
like the PASCAL compiler.
>From age 15 to 17, I worked after-school at a car stereo company, which,
back then (1968+) meant 8-track mostly, some 4T, and a few 'exotic'
cassette players.
One late spring afternoon, after having been 'out' most of the night,
full day of school, warm late afternoon. music playing - John fell asleep
in the middle of replacing a fried transistor and nodded off - actually I
nodded *onto* my soldering iron and was awakend by the smell and the
sizzle of a neat, surf-board shaped patch of skin being branded into my
*forehead*.
So I got to spend the next three weeks going to classes and explaining
the tribal markings I'd given myself.
Of course, over the years, I've grabbed my share of the stupid end of
hot irons, including dropping one while I was working on the power supply
of my [ob:classiccmp] PDP11/34.
Cheers
John
PS: I was *not*, however, using Nassau solder. I was saving *that* for
eBay... ;}
I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late!
Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers
>from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99.
I have no affiliation with this website.
http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
I have several versions, circa 1982-1985, of Alloy's "TIP" tape program.
However, there is nothing about them that is Altos specific, they had a
"general purpose" S-100 interface board. I believe that they are all 8-bit
CP/M-80 programs. Contact me if you want to discuss further.
Barry Watzman (Watzman(a)yahoo.com)
that way the hot tip lands on your ankle or leg instead of the floor where is can ruin the finish...
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy McLaughlin <randy(a)s100-manuals.com>
That's what they make cords for. Always grab the cord when it is falling.
Randy
>It wasn't falling - it was laying on a desk. I picked it up, but I picked up
>the wrong end. Sizzle sizzle...
Some how many moons ago, I managed to pick up a butane iron by grabbing
the heater on it. The tip of my index finger covered the glowing red air
hole.
That was fun as I screamed and literally had to peel the iron off my now
crispy finger tip (taking a good deal of charred flesh with it).
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
First of all, there is nothing wrong with using the word "registered" in
1985. SRI-NIC (the original ARPANET/Internet registry) had existed long
before 1985. It originally registered hosts and even their users, but when
domains were invented (RFC 882/883 timeframe, 1983-ish) SRI-NIC was
registering them too.
As for DNS use in 1985, consider that 4.3BSD, the first Berkeley release
with DNS, was released in early 1986, and was definitely working well inside
Berkeley in 1985. So Berkeley.EDU was up in 1985, and its DNS implementation
incorporated the changes between 882/883 and 1034/1035, i.e., 1034/1035-style
DNS was in operation in 1985 two years before being formally codified in the
RFCs.
In fact I just checked WHOIS and BERKELEY.EDU was registered on 1985-04-24.
Since it was one of the first, it is in fact quite plausible that there were
indeed 6 domain records in the SRI-NIC registry in 1985.
MS
"rights of passage" are fine, but not everytime...
the medical co-pay would be a killer
-----Original Message-----
From: chris <cb(a)mythtech.net>
Sent: Jan 12, 2005 11:33 AM
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: "Cold heat" soldering?
>the attraction is to all the people that burn themselves WHENEVER they
>pick up a soldering iron...
I thought those burns where a right of passage in using an iron!?!
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
National Instruments Corp. sells a GPIB controller (the NAT9914) which
is compatible with the NEC 7210.
The NAT9914 is their implementation of the TI 9914. The orig 9914 data
sheet scan can be found at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/_dataBooks/TMS9914A_dataSheet_Jun89.pdf
Brad Parker wrote:
> If no one else can dig anything up let me know. I know a lot of
> ex-shiva people - I might be able to find something. I'll send off some
> email.
Any chance you could get a spec for the Shiva Pipe protocol used by the
LANrovers?
-- Adam
Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> I've got a CEC PCI-488 GPIB card that uses it and the "Advanced Programming"
> section of the manual makes a lot of references to the 7210 datasheet...
National Instruments Corp. sells a GPIB controller (the NAT9914) which
is compatible with the NEC 7210. The reference manual (370875A-01,
320744B-0), June 1995 is available at:
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370875a.pdf
NI also makes another controller, the NAT9914 which
has two modes of operation: (a) TI 9914 and (b) NEC 7210.
The manual of the NAT9914 contains full descriptions of both the 9914
and 7210 modes. The NAT9914 Reference Manual (370876A-01, 320775-01),
June 1995 is available at:
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370876a.pdf
**vp
the attraction is to all the people that burn themselves WHENEVER they pick up a soldering iron...
-----Original Message-----
From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com>
Still, they seem to be selling like mad, but if they're no good for
electronics then what's the attraction?
From: Joe R.
Subject: RE: Lots of S-100 card docs avail/wanted
> At 09:53 PM 1/11/05 -0500, you wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
> I think I may have one of these. Years ago I picked up a large metal
> chassis that I was told was a TRS-6000 and IIRC it did have TRS cards
> in it but it was NOT in the usual plastic chassis (I have one of them
> too). I pulled it apart and looked at it and as best I can remember it
> has 3 Mb of RAM, a 68000 CPU and a Z-80 CPU and a LOT of serial ports.
> I also got a huge stack of TRS-6000 disks and docs with it. I thought
> perhaps it was a TRS-6000 that someone had taken apart and mounted
> in a metal chassis but your message makes me wonder. It's been
> years since I looked at the thing and I don't remember what
> form-factor cards are in it.
>
> Joe
Joe:
If you're ever interested in unloading this, and/or the disks let
me know.
If you ever get a chance, I'd love to see some pictures of this beast!
Kelly
>Still, they seem to be selling like mad, but if they're no good for
>electronics then what's the attraction?
Yeah, I was a little surprised to see in their FAQ's that they say it is
NOT recommended for electronics use... considering the commercial CLEARLY
shows a person using it on electronics!
I guess its another example of do as a I say and not as I do (eh, who am
I kidding, all these "as seen on TV products" use them on TV in ways that
they tell you not to use them)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Dunfield [mailto:dave04a@dunfield.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:45 PM
>
>
> >> ** Two of the S-100 homebuilts are actually complete TRS-80's
> >> implemented on S-100 cards - they run the TRS-80 ROMs unmodified
> >> (with disk system) and load/run TRS-80 software!
> >
> >Holy crap II! That is fucking cool! Pictures!!!
>
> I thought so too - Very unique S-100 systems - I will be getting them
> up and running, and will let you know how they work out. They
> are mostly
> homebuilt cards (except for memory).
>
>
> >I want pictures of those homebrew TRS-80 S-100 systems.
> That has to be
> >the coolest S-100 system ever (next to the Atari S-100 stuff
> I've got ;)
>
Are these Z80 TRS-80 systems, or the 68000 systems? There actually were some
S-100 like systems (same connector, different board form factor) of the
model 16/6000 series. They were used in large (for the time) dialup systems.
I think they had 2+meg of ram and 2 or 3 four port serial cards. I have
never seen these, only heard about them. Some were even modified to run
68010 CPUs. There are instructions out there somewhere for this mod, but
no-one seems to have them readily available. They "lore" is that these
instructions were saved in the swap area of one of the install boot
diskettes. I was able to find and extract the games that were hidden there,
but never these instructions.
Kelly
Hello everybody!
You might remember my question about transport-locking HP-IB Harddisks last
year; Al Kossow kindly added the installation manual to his Bitsavers site.
Today I had a go at the drives; two of them (the 7912 and the standalone
7908) were absolutely no problem to do using the information he provided.
The rackmount 7908 however was not - it looked very different inside; a
completely different technology, it must be a later revision. No die-cast
HDA taking up the whole width of the housing, merely a modernish smoked PMMA
(?) hood covering several 8" (if so large) platters in the front-left corner
of the assembly. No accessible spindle drive or actuator to be seen and no
obvious way to lock everything in place.
Can anybody please shed some light on how to prepare this unit? We don't
want to risk transporting it as it is because the head assembly already
moved when I only pulled the drive out of the rack.
TIA,
--
Arno Kletzander
Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen
www.iser.uni-erlangen.de
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
1 GB Mailbox bereits in GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
>> >> ** Two of the S-100 homebuilts are actually complete TRS-80's
>> >> implemented on S-100 cards - they run the TRS-80 ROMs unmodified
>> >> (with disk system) and load/run TRS-80 software!
>> >
>Are these Z80 TRS-80 systems, or the 68000 systems? There actually were some
>S-100 like systems (same connector, different board form factor) of the
>model 16/6000 series. They were used in large (for the time) dialup systems.
>I think they had 2+meg of ram and 2 or 3 four port serial cards. I have
>never seen these, only heard about them. Some were even modified to run
>68010 CPUs. There are instructions out there somewhere for this mod, but
>no-one seems to have them readily available. They "lore" is that these
>instructions were saved in the swap area of one of the install boot
>diskettes. I was able to find and extract the games that were hidden there,
>but never these instructions.
Yes, they are Z80 TRS-80 systems - the guy basically replicated a TRS-80
in homebuilt S-100 cards. I should have pictures up within the next week
or two.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
I have some 400 fingers available for Genicom line printers.
They should fit the models 310/320/33/ & 340.
About 25 are individually packed in platic bags, the others are
in 2 tubes with approx 200 fingers each. There are also 3 extractor
tools and some instruction sheets.
Free for the cost of postage.
Ed G.
Hello,
Is there anyone currently working with Amdahl equipment?
I've got four spools of nine-track magnetic tape with various
labels (AMATS, Amdahl Architectural Test Systems,
Extended Memory Support, etc). I believe these were used
by Amdahl field support.
You can see the labels (and some Amdahl binders) at
www.decodesystems.com/amdahl.html
While I've read "There Are No Electrons" (written by Kenn
Amdahl) I don't happen to have any Amdahl equipment -- so
if there is anyone with an interest in these tapes please contact
me off-list for trades, etc.
Cheers,
Dan
www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html
Another good auction! For my $20 hard-earned dollars I picked up:
a tabletop 9348-012 IBM SCSI (differential) 9-track tape drive (woohoo) so I
can now make software tapes for my PDP's on my peecee!!
Anybody have a manual for this beast?? I will gladly pay copying and mailing
costs!!
an Ohio Scientific 600 Single board computer (circa 1980) w/ power supply and
cassette software along with these manuals:
Servicing Data for Computer Boards 600 & 610 (challenger series)
Assembler editor and Extended Monitor Reference Manual (C1P, C4P and C8P)
Basic Reference Manual (ROM 65D and 65U)
65V Primer
C1P and C1P MF Introductory Manual
The Cip Users Manual
Also a couple of IBM AT's (for the MFM drives)
A couple of SGI Indy's (r5000's)
miscellaneous peecee computer parts
All-in-all a good day!!
Cheers
Tom
--
---
Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to
the beginning.
The newer IEEE-488 chips emulate either the uPD7210 or the TMS9914 or both,
so their docs might have the info you want. You should be able to find the
following online:
National Instruments TNT4882 Programmer Reference Manual 320724-01
National Instruments NAT7210BPD datasheet
National Instruments NAT9914 Reference Manual (9914 but with 7210 mode)
ines ieee488.2 iGPIB Hardware Manual
Computerboards CB7210.2 data sheet
Also, the source for Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD IEEE-488 drivers might be helpful.
-- Adam
On Jan 5 2005, 14:27, Fred Cisin wrote:
> > > In the case of DOS 6.22, the message "Cannot do binary reads from
a
> > > device" is at offset 970F in COMMAND.COM
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Tom Jennings wrote:
> > Sheesh, it only took them 10 years to declare it impossible and
> > test for the error.
>
> Well, ...
> in DOS 4.00, it is at offset 7CCC. It may have been there since
QDOS?
Dunno, I don't have quite such old versions :-) My old copy of "The
MS-DOS Bible" says "every version" -- it means 3.30 and older --
disallows binary reads from devices. The same message is at 5254 in
MS-DOS 3.30 (ditto in PC-DOS 3.30), at 4CA0 in 3.21, and 4CCC in
IBM-DOS 4.01 (from a Compaq). I can't read my MS-DOS 2.10 and 2.11
disks on the hardware I have here. "Binary reads from a device are not
allowed" is the message at 8753 in DR-DOS 3.41.
All the ones that I could boot (ie all but 2.10/2.11) print the message
and then exit when you try COPY /B CON: dummy .
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Jules,
Update to my previous reply: The board found on http://www.moosenet.
demon.co.uk/temp/comps/aim65/board_front.jpg could be a Memory-Mate
board.
>From Electronic Design magazine November 1981:
"..these fit underneith the AIM-65 to privide 16 to 48 kbytes of
RAM expansion, four programable I/O ports, timers and counters, and
PROM sockets. The board interfaces with the Rockwell computer's
expansion connector. Another card, called the STD-Mate, connects
to the Memory-Mate to link the system with an STD-bus motherboard
and card cage, thus permitting STD-bus systems to be developed using
the examine, alter, simple step, trace, breakpoint, and other features
of the AIM-65."
Bill Degnan
Wilmington, Delaware
vintagecomputer.net
On Jan 11 2005, 10:49, Philip Pemberton wrote:
> Nope - the 7210 was NEC's IEEE-488/HPIB/GPIB controller chip. I've
got a CEC
> PCI-488 GPIB card that uses it and the "Advanced Programming" section
of the
> manual makes a lot of references to the 7210 datasheet...
NEC discontinued the 7210 a while ago, but a company called
ComputerBoards makes a drop-in replacement. It has some extensions, so
not everything described in the datasheet would work on a real uPD7210,
but it might help. They have a 14-page data sheet on their website:
http://www.7210.com/frames.html
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
with all the talk about ISA-based SCSI cards, here is 8-bit XT ISA SCSI card
on epay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=167&item=5120034528&r
d=1&ssPageName=WD1V
Cheers,
Ram
(c) 2005 OpenLink Financial
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way arising from its use.
Jules,
Most often expansion boards that came from Rockwell are 6 1/4" x
4" and fit into the Rockwell AIM expansion chassis. I bet this
is a custom (?) XEROX prom monitor card adapted for the AIM 65.
The card would not fit in the Rockwell expansion chassis.
I have a lot of Rockwell hardware and documentation. If you send
me the part # of the board I can look it up to confirm.
Bill
>Message: 22
>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:16:45 +0000
>From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk>
>Subject: AIM65 with unknown second board
>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
>Message-ID: <1105363005.13406.26.camel(a)weka.localdomain>
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Afternoon...
>
>We were given an AIM65 the other day (first time I've seen a real one)
>in a rather fetching custom blue case that has a carry handle on one
>edge. It was apparently used by Xerox for some for of magnetic media
>testing way back when; it still carries a Xerox asset tag on the back.
>
>Unfortunately in between the previous owner saying they wanted it when
>it was retired and them going to collect it, it got thrown into
a skip -
>so there's some damage to the case and the red display cover needs
>replacing. Luckily the electronics survived, apart from one broken
>switch.
>
>Curious thing about the machine is that it has a second board mounted
>under the main board, containing quite a bit of circuitry. I was
>wondering whether this second board is something custom produced by
>Xerox (there are no marks indicating manufacturer) or whether it was an
>official off-the-shelf expansion board...
>
>Quick and dirty pics at:
>
>http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/aim65/
>
>Wish I'd brought the machine home now, but I can get a list of the main
>ICs on that second board when I'm next at the musuem if needs be.
>
>Note that there seems to be no RAM on the AIM65 board itself, -
just ROM
>- but there are 16 4116 chips on the expansion board.
>
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
> Sorry, I want to run either MWM (talk about sick and twisted), [...]
Wow, I thought I was the only one running mwm! I have one of the
original source distributions and have been carrying it with me
all these years. Now it is running on a dual screen machine under
OpenBSD 3.4. Although it was considered slow and bloated when it
came out (14+ years ago), nowadays the same code is considered
fast and slim (times change).
BTW this is what I really really really like about source distributions,
you do not depend on the vendor to port the software.
**vp
>> Took in a big load of S-100 material this past weekend, including
>> 5 complete systems (Altair 8800, Vector-1+, 3 homebuilts), and a
>> total of 76 S-100 cards, with about 40 different types.
>
>Holy crap! Nice haul!
Thanks - it was a big load - took me about two hours to pack *most* of it
into my Jeep Cherokee (with the rear seat folded down) - ended up leaving
a few bits and pieces to pickup later this summer (was located about 700km
>from me).
It was one of those "everything went right" experiences - The Altair is
*mint* - not a mark on the panel or any worn lettering ... My initial
disappointment because it didn't have the silver nameplate (my other one
doesn't either) was quickly put aside when he hauled out the nameplate,
still with it's "pink" protective covering on it. In addition to the Mits
cards listed, it came with the original Mits 4K BASIC and 8K BASIC cassettes,
as well as all of the documentation - and a completely unexpected suprise
was when I noticed the January 1975 Popular Electronics "Altair" issue
laying on top of it (I've been looking for it for a very long time).
A very nice piece, along with the Vector which is also in excellent condition.
>> ** Two of the S-100 homebuilts are actually complete TRS-80's
>> implemented on S-100 cards - they run the TRS-80 ROMs unmodified
>> (with disk system) and load/run TRS-80 software!
>
>Holy crap II! That is fucking cool! Pictures!!!
I thought so too - Very unique S-100 systems - I will be getting them
up and running, and will let you know how they work out. They are mostly
homebuilt cards (except for memory).
>I want pictures of those homebrew TRS-80 S-100 systems. That has to be
>the coolest S-100 system ever (next to the Atari S-100 stuff I've got ;)
I had hoped to update my site within the next week or two, however I expect
it will get pushed off a little now, as some of the new material is worthy
of waiting for - but the update will include photos of the two "TRS-80"
S-100 systems - I'll post a note when I have made the update.
Do you have photos of the Atari S-100 material posted?
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
Hi,
Does anyone have a complete copy of the NEC uPD7210 datasheet? I've just
spent the past hour Google-ing for it and all I've found is a pair of "We'll
give you this d/s if you pay $500" type sites, and a bunch of copies of the
first page or so of the datasheet.
Thanks.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
Warning: Windows is broken. Watch out for glass fragments.
Hi
I use windows for tax programs and digital photos. Beyond
that, I have no use for it. If these were available in
some other form, I'd use that instead.
Dwight
>From: gordonjcp(a)gjcp.net
>
>
>> My usual machine for internet access just croaked (bad checksum in
>> NTVDM.EXE), so, I'm using a Chembook notebook that has several
>
>I'm *amazed* how many people on this list still struggle on with Windows.
>I would have thought most people with the geeky proclivities that would
>lead them into playing with old computers would all be running one of the
>many free OSes.
>
>Gordon.
>
>
Hi
4000 series is good to around 15 volts someplace as I recall.
I don't remember how low it goes but it seems like 2.5v someplace.
It does run slower at lower voltages and even at 5 volts, it
is really slow for logic. It really depends on the application.
Dwight
>From: "Scott Stevens" <chenmel(a)earthlink.net>
---snip---
>
>Doesn't 4000-series CMOS logic operate pretty well at non-5 volt levels
>if powered to such levels? I haven't used any in years, but all the
>'building block' logic components are available, i.e. the 4049 and such.
> A company I worked for made a muscle stim device out of a single 4000
>series 'hex converter' using feedback to make multivibrators, crude
>comparators, drivers, etc. out of the gates. It wasn't powered at 5
>volts, the whole thing ran from a 9 volt battery. The logic thresholds
>for 4000 CMOS are 1/3 and 2/3 of VCC, for whatever VCC you supply, if I
>recall.
>
>
Hello,
indeed it's been a faulty drive. Now the machine works pretty fine.
Thanks to everybody, especially to Scott Quinn for pointing me to the
diagnostic program IDE.
Fabian
the 100ua only applies to the 74L family and it only represents the high logic level current that it will supply into other logic inputs. One of the key design specs for TTL was the input current to guarantee a specific logic level. For normal TTL, TI specs call for -1.6ma for a logic low and 40ua for a logic high (these are input currents). In other words, ten standard TTL loads for both low and high logic levels. Ten was the usual output capability of TTL outputs.
Short circuit current is spec'd too and at a minimum, is 18ma for a TTL output that is high.
You can find the standard logic currents on page 1076 of the 2nd edition on bitsavers and the short circuit current on the same page. Of note, the 18ma was only the minimum short circuit current, TI spec's 55ma for the maximum. It also states that you should not short more than one output at a time. Frankly, as I said before, shorting anything for any amount of time is a great way to create noise transients.
I have tried to never recall anything from memory anymore on this list because there is always someone who disagrees...
best regards, Steve Thatcher
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com>
Sent: Jan 10, 2005 3:46 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: RTL Logic
Hi
The 16ma is for sink of the NPN to ground. The pullup
is limited to around 100ua as I recall.
Dwight
>From: "Steve Thatcher" <melamy(a)earthlink.net>
>
>well, I design by specifications. The TI specs say that the short circuit
current for 74xx series is 18ma which is also not within specs for the general
output current capability of 16 ma. Transient shorts like this are a great way
to generate power supply noise. I guess I never applied any type of "preliminary
hackery" to systems I have developed.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: der Mouse <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca>
>Sent: Jan 9, 2005 5:15 AM
>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: RTL Logic
>
>Except that totem-pole outputs usually have just a transistor to
>ground, but a transistor and resistor to Vcc. This means that the one
>driving the signal low will win, and, provided not too many outputs are
>wired together, it will sink the current without damage. (I've
>actually built circuits that depended on this, though I've never liked
>it and never considered it suitable for more than preliminary hackery.
>I've also always never done it for anything where the conflict will
>last more than nanoseconds, as when building an ~R/~S flip-flop out of
>two cross-coupled inverters rather than the more usual NANDs or NORs.)
>
>
Ok, sorry I can't help.
Then the graphics chip was the NEC7220.
- Henk.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton
> Sent: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 11:49
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: RE: uPD7210 datasheet
>
>
> In message <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011134D0(a)gd-mail03.oce.nl>
> Gooijen H <GOOI(a)oce.nl> wrote:
>
> > it's been a long time, but I vagely remember the 7210 as
> the graphics
> > processor from NEC.
>
> Nope - the 7210 was NEC's IEEE-488/HPIB/GPIB controller chip.
> I've got a CEC
> PCI-488 GPIB card that uses it and the "Advanced Programming"
> section of the
> manual makes a lot of references to the 7210 datasheet...
>
> What I want to do is make the CEC card act like a GPIB device
> that's been set
> to "Always Listen" mode so I can take copies of the screen on
> my HP 1651B
> logic analyser. It shouldn't be too hard to write a bit of
> code to convert
> the Laserjet control codes into a bitmap image...
>
> Later.
> --
> Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3,
> SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
> philpem(a)philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT
> Ethernet, 2-slice,
> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
> ... Eagles Soar!, but weasels aren't sucked into jets!
>
Hi Philip,
it's been a long time, but I vagely remember the 7210 as the graphics
processor from NEC. AFAIR it was used in the HX-10 or something like
that (a small "laptop" thingie).
If the 7210 is indeed that graphics processor chip, I can help.
Possibly that graphics chip has a number that resembles 7210. I that
case I'm of no help - sri
- Henk, PA8PDP.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton
> Sent: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 11:10
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: WTD: uPD7210 datasheet
>
>
> Hi,
> Does anyone have a complete copy of the NEC uPD7210
> datasheet? I've just
> spent the past hour Google-ing for it and all I've found is a
> pair of "We'll
> give you this d/s if you pay $500" type sites, and a bunch of
> copies of the
> first page or so of the datasheet.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3,
> SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
> philpem(a)philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT
> Ethernet, 2-slice,
> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
> Warning: Windows is broken. Watch out for glass fragments.
Hi
The 16ma is for sink of the NPN to ground. The pullup
is limited to around 100ua as I recall.
Dwight
>From: "Steve Thatcher" <melamy(a)earthlink.net>
>
>well, I design by specifications. The TI specs say that the short circuit
current for 74xx series is 18ma which is also not within specs for the general
output current capability of 16 ma. Transient shorts like this are a great way
to generate power supply noise. I guess I never applied any type of "preliminary
hackery" to systems I have developed.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: der Mouse <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca>
>Sent: Jan 9, 2005 5:15 AM
>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: RTL Logic
>
>Except that totem-pole outputs usually have just a transistor to
>ground, but a transistor and resistor to Vcc. This means that the one
>driving the signal low will win, and, provided not too many outputs are
>wired together, it will sink the current without damage. (I've
>actually built circuits that depended on this, though I've never liked
>it and never considered it suitable for more than preliminary hackery.
>I've also always never done it for anything where the conflict will
>last more than nanoseconds, as when building an ~R/~S flip-flop out of
>two cross-coupled inverters rather than the more usual NANDs or NORs.)
>
>
People have made mention of ubuntu in this thread. My boss tried it out and
like it a lot so he created a bootable cd for me and I tried it out on a
computer I built from leftover parts. I used a crappy PC chips system board with
onboard video and sound and put a 3com etherlink III NIC in the only slot and
added a PII 400 and 512M RAM. I booted up the CD and it set up the blank
hard drive and everything else with little intervention. It picked up the video
card and the NIC and connected to my broadband connection. After a few
hardware problems, it's up and running with mozilla. There's a package manager
which can be used to bring down all the updates for installation. I expected to
have to do some user configuration but it was essentially hands off! Runs
pretty good and still plenty of space left on the hard drive. The sound does not
work, but I expected that since I don't know what sound chipset the system
board has.
anyone curious about linux should check it out. also www.ubuntuforums.org
Took in a big load of S-100 material this past weekend, including
5 complete systems (Altair 8800, Vector-1+, 3 homebuilts), and a
total of 76 S-100 cards, with about 40 different types.
I believe I have documentation for them all, which I would like to
eventually make available in electronic form.
As there is really no need for multiple people to scan documentation,
I propose the following:
- If you have already scanned documents for any of these cards, or
otherwise have "electric" form, please let me know.
- If you are looking for documenation on any of these cards, please
let me know and I will move the ones requested up my priority
list.
A=AndiCom B=oBjective designs C=eleCtronic systems
D=Drc E=Ems G=GodBout
H=HomeBuilt I=Ithaca Audio L=simpLiway
M=Mits N=Northstar O=newtrOnics
P=Processor-tech. R=m.t.wRite S=Solid State music
T=Tanner Computers V=Vector Graphic W=WMC
Mfg Model Description
-------------------------------
A AM1000 64k RAM
B VDI Video Display
B Programmable Character Generator
C S-100 Active Terminator
D S-100 Sound Effects
D 32k RAM
E VC8024 Single Board Computer (CPU/ROM/RAM/VID/KBD)
G EconoRam II 8k RAM
G EconoRam IV RAM
G 106C Active Terminator
G 106E Active Terminator
H 1793 Disk Controller
H TRS-80 Eprom Card
H ? (full of sockets)
I IA-1100 Video
L Video/Keyboard
M CPU BD REV.0 8080 CPU Board *
M 88-1 SIO Serial I/O *
M 88-SIOB Serial I/O with Modem/Cassette daughter card
M 4K RAM BD
M 4K Synchronous RAM BD
N MDC-A4 Single-Density Disk Ctrlr *
N MDS-AD Double-Density Disk Ctrlr *
O 64K S-100 memory
P VDM-1 64x16 Video
P CUTS (revB) Cassette/Tape Interface
P 3P+S I/O (rev2) Parallel/Serial I/O
P GPM EPROM
P 16KRA 16k RAM
R I/O - proto
S CB1 8080 CPU
S CB1A 8080 CPU
S CB2 Z80 CPU
S IO-4 Serial/Parallel I/O
S PB1 EPROM Programmer
S VBTC Video
T 32K EPROM II 32K memory (RAM populated)
V 8080 CPU
W MEM-3 32k RAM (2114)
* = I already have these scanned from my other S-100 projects.
Guy was also really into TRS-80's - I received two Model IIIs
and a Model IV-D - also with tons of documenation and technical
material - if anyone is interested in this documentation, contact
me and I will forward an inventory when it becomes available.
** Two of the S-100 homebuilts are actually complete TRS-80's
implemented on S-100 cards - they run the TRS-80 ROMs unmodified
(with disk system) and load/run TRS-80 software!
A few other interesting odds and ends as well, such as a SWTP C-64
terminal and docs, Full collection of Micro-80 magazine, and much
more - this will all eventually get listed on the web site, so check
in in a few months (years?) in case there is anything of interest.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
>
>I've got an RA81 that has bad electronics, so it may (or may not) have a
>good HDA still. If you want it, we could probably arrange something.
Ah. Well, I have an RA81 with good electronics and no HDA :-)
Give me a day or so to see what Jay comes up with.
thanks!
-brad
Hi,
I just found your message on the list from April 2004. Do you still have
the Data General boards, if so I would be interested in obtaining them. Let
me know.
Thanks,
George Wiegand