- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

Apropos of nothing, I've been confuse for some time regarding maximum clock rates for local bus. My admittedly old information, which comes from the 3rd ed. of "High Performance Computer Architecture", a course I audited, indicates a maximum speed on the order of 1ghz for very very short trace lengths. Late model computers boast multi-hundred to multi gigahertz fsb's. Am I wrong in thinking this is an aggregate of several serial lines running at 1 to 200mhz? No straight answer has presented on searches online. So here's the question. Is maximum fsb on standard, non-optical bus still limited to a maximum of a couple of hundred megahertz, or did something happen in the last decade or two that changed things dramatically? I understand, at least think I do, that these ridiculously high frequency claims would not survive capacitance issues and RFI issues. When my brother claimed a 3.2ghz bus speed for his machine I just told him that was wrong, impossible for practical purposes, that it had to be an aggregate figure, a 'Pentium rating' sort of number rather than the actual clock speed. I envision switching bus tech akin to present networking, paralleled to sidestep the limit while keeping pin and trace counts low.....? Something like the PCIe 'lane' scheme in present use? This is surmise based on my own experience. When I was current, the way out of this limitation was fiber-optics for the bus. This was used in supercomputing and allowed interconnects of longer length at ridiculous speeds. Thanks for allowing me to entertain this question. Though it is not specifically a classic computer question, it does relate to development and history. Best, Technoid Mutant (Jeff Worley)

7 years, 3 months

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Vintage-computing relevant IOBCC entry

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bill Degnan > I attempted to port the same version of unix to an rl02 disk pack and > to run on an actual 11/40. I was able to get ir to boot up to the # > prompt but my system does not have a working EIS card to proceed any > further. I"m incredibly surprised that you got to the prompt! First, the V6 RL bootstrap uses ASH, part of EIS. And then the C compiler makes extensive use of EIS instructions, so anything in C (the OS, 'init', 'sh', etc) may have EIS instructions in it. Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
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Data General Eclipse microcode manual

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Guys, Do any of you know where I could get hold of DG document(s) describing the microcode of their Eclipse family. It was wide yellow manual with brown plastic ring binding. It brings back happy but foggy memories. "The Soul of the New Machine"(book) tells me that the instruction set was built from the microcode by some genius overnight. Probably an urban myth! Who knows. Many thanks, peter

7 years, 3 months

1
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Microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs

by bygg＠cafax.se

> Few people (but most are right here) can recite PI to enough digits to > reach the level of inaccuracy. And those who believe that PI is exactly > 22/7 are unaffected by FDIV. (YES, some schools do still teach that!) Why remember the digits, when a small program can provide them? +0un qn"E20Un' 0Uh 0uv HK Qn<j 0uq Qn*10/3Ui Qi<\+2*10+(Qq*qi)Ua 0LK Qi*2-1Uj Qa/QjUq Qa-(Qq*Qj)-2\10I$ Qi-1ui> Qq/10Ut Qh+Qt+48Uw Qw-58"E48Uw %v' Qv"N:Qv,1^T' QwUv Qq-(Qt*10)Uh> :Qv,1^T !Can you figure out what this macro does before running it? It was written by Stan Rabinowitz with modifications by Mark Bramhall and appeared as the Macro of the Month in the Nov. 1977 issue of the TECO SIG newsletter, the "Moby Munger". For information on the TECO Special Interest Group, write to Stan at P.O. Box 76, Maynard, Mass. 01754! --Johnny

7 years, 3 months

5
4
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I don't recall off the top of my head whether the location of that > shared block of memory is in the per-process swappable kernel data > (which is included in the process core dump). So I checked, and the swappable per-process kernel data does in fact include pre-computed contents for all the memory management registers, so we'll be able to see (from the process core dump) where the code and data segments were. On another front, that error message ("Memory error") is produced when a process gets a 'memory management trap' (trap to 0250). This could be caused by any number of things (it's a pity we don't know the contents of SR0 when the trap happened, that would tell us exactly what the cause was). With working hardware+OS, it's usually the result of a bad pointer in the program. In a tested program like 'ls', I don't think that's the case. It's most likely caused by faulty memory, but it's also faintly possible that the MMU has an issue. I'll look at the process dump a little later today, and see if I see anything of significance. Noel

7 years, 3 months

1
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Bogus "account hacked" message

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

About two hours ago, I received an email to the address I only use for cctech/cctalk. It claimed my email account had been hacked and threatened all sorts of dire consequences if I didn't deposit $1000 in bitcoins in some place within 48 hours. I am 100% certain that the claims in the message are completely bogus and none of the threats will be carried out. It is likely that email addresses belonging to other list members are also to be found wherever my email address was scraped from so I just wanted to warn other list members about this scam in case they receive similar emails. (I received the scam email directly, not via the cctech listserver). Regards, Peter Coghlan.

7 years, 3 months

19
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Vintage-computing relevant IOBCC entry

by lproven＠gmail.com

/* You are not expected to understand this. */ https://www.ioccc.org/2018/mills/hint.html -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

7 years, 3 months

2
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller PPS: > I could work to extract the core file I just checked, and the binary for the 'ls' command is what's called 'pure code'; i.e. the instructions are in a separate (potentially shared) block of memory from the process' data (un-shared). I don't recall off the top of my head whether the location of that shared block of memory is in the per-process swappable kernel data (which is included in the process core dump). I'll check tomorrow, when I'm not sick as a dog (pretty miserable right at the moment). It would be east to mod the OS to print all that info when that illegal instruction trap happens - but that will change the size of the OS, so will probably change the location the process is at; so that might cause the symptoms to change. Ditto for recompilling 'ls' to make it a unified blob. > Assuming that doesn't create another core file... :-) :-) Don't worry, we'll nail it! Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
2
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Anyone want an irman (Infrared to serial dongles)

by guykd＠optusnet.com.au

At 11:05 PM 8/01/2019 +0000, you wrote: >While tidying up I've found a few Irman infrared to serial dongles > >https://web.archive.org/web/20060314052558/http://www.evation.com/irman/ind… > >they connect via a 9 pin serial plug and then convert any consumer >remote IR signals they receive into serial. > >No additional power required, good wide angle reception, open source >driver still available > >https://sourceforge.net/projects/libirman/ > >Could make an interesting project for anyone who wants to control >their VAX / S-100 / homebrew retro board with a serial port via a >remote :) > >The company making them went away about a decade ago, so I'm counting >that as in retro territory. > >I have four for the price of shipping if anyone is interested, based >in London/UK. > >(Around 2000 we had an office music system based around a DNARD/Shark >running mserv & irman where everyone had a random remote at their desk >and could use it to rate/skip/queue something they liked, and the >system generally trid to pick from music which most of the people >currently connected liked... ahh, fun days :) > >David I'll definitely take one. Or preferably two, if that doesn't clash with anyone else wanting one. I'll send my address via private email. Can you accept Paypal for the postage? Guy

7 years, 3 months

1
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Anyone want an irman (Infrared to serial dongles)

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Chuck we would like a couple..? ed at smecc Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, January 8, 2019 Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On 1/8/19 3:05 PM, David Brownlee via cctalk wrote: > While tidying up I've found a few Irman infrared to serial dongles > > https://web.archive.org/web/20060314052558/http://www.evation.com/irman/ind… > > they connect via a 9 pin serial plug and then convert any consumer > remote IR signals they receive into serial. I just posted on github a little project that takes a cheap surplus (my last ones cost $5 NOS) IBM iPoint IR keyboard and converts it to PS/2 keyboard protocol using a cheap STM32F103 "Blue Pill" and a 3-terminal 38KHz IR receiver.? I'm currently writing the USB version which will support the "nipple mouse" as well. The keyboards aren't bad--they're made by Silitek ca. 1992 and have a decent feel for a rubber dome keyboard. The point is that with modern MCUs, any IR stuff is easy-peasy.? My little Chinese LCR tester even reads and displays IR codes. --Chuck

7 years, 3 months

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Anyone want an irman (Infrared to serial dongles)

by abs＠absd.org

While tidying up I've found a few Irman infrared to serial dongles https://web.archive.org/web/20060314052558/http://www.evation.com/irman/ind… they connect via a 9 pin serial plug and then convert any consumer remote IR signals they receive into serial. No additional power required, good wide angle reception, open source driver still available https://sourceforge.net/projects/libirman/ Could make an interesting project for anyone who wants to control their VAX / S-100 / homebrew retro board with a serial port via a remote :) The company making them went away about a decade ago, so I'm counting that as in retro territory. I have four for the price of shipping if anyone is interested, based in London/UK. (Around 2000 we had an office music system based around a DNARD/Shark running mserv & irman where everyone had a random remote at their desk and could use it to rate/skip/queue something they liked, and the system generally trid to pick from music which most of the people currently connected liked... ahh, fun days :) David

7 years, 3 months

2
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller PS: > I could work to extract the core file Can PDP11GUI save output from the -11's console? If so, just say 'od core', and send me the output. Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
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KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller >> the last microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. > So what's at 002 now? Maybe something new was required there by micro > branch/fork logic, so the original contents had to be moved? Well, it turns out I've been transcribing the ucode flow diagrams from the 34, as part of a deeper look at the 34. (Dave B and I need a PDP-11 in the FPGA on the QSIC, to run the USB protocol on; rather than using a microcontroller, we decided the hack value of putting an -11 in there was too much to resist. It's also practical, though - we're already very familiar with it, have a good toolchain for it, etc. One option for that - we know about the existing FPGA -11's - was cloning the /34.) So according to that table: http://gunkies.org/wiki/KD11-E/EA_microcode there is no uinst at 002 now! So I have no idea why they moved it. (The place they moved it to, 0744, seems like it was the first empty location.) There is a dump of the 34A microcode here: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1134/m8266_ucode.out.txt and for 002 it gives Called by......... = IR or BUT only NEXT MPC.......... = 015 but 015 doesn't seem like a useful place to branch to? Maybe location 002 was just abandoned (I have no idea why), and that's some leftover trash? BTW, the engineering drawings contain three errors (fixed in the table above; see the notes there), so I suspect they were drawn up by looking at a set of the listings. I wonder if the actual source has survived? Probably not, alas... Noel

7 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > Kernel boots on my actual hardware, but an "ls" in single-user mode > generates a "Memory error -- core dumped". Oh, yeah, your hardware definitely has issues, then. > So evidence is mounting that I really do have some sort of issue with > my MS11-L. If so, I'm rather suprised that the DEC diagnostics didn't pick it up. > Tried a multi-user boot for kicks You're stu^H^H^Hbrave! > I'm actually able to "ls" under that. Yeah, probably your process wound up at a different place in physical memory (although there are a zillion other ways one could get that effect, depending on exactly what the issue is - e.g. maybe a bad bit in the memory word where the process table happened to wind up). > I could work to extract the core file The 'ls' one, please (shorter/simpler); I can poke around in that, and see if I can find any clues as to the cause. > probably the best application of effort would be to do develop/run more > diagnostics on the MS11-L OK. I also have a little memory diag that I wrote myself that you could try. Let me know if you'd like it; it's currently for the /23+/73 (and it would probably work on the /70, I'd have to check) so I'd have to tweak a few things to get it to run on a /45. Best way to get it to you would be to send you the Unix assembler source, if you can get that onto the disk, then you could: as memptst.s mv a.out /memptst and just boot it. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > I should go read up on QSIC. There's not much on the Web, alas. We have two working prototypes (a wirewrap QBUS mother-board with bus transceivers, level converters, etc, connected to an FPGA prototyp ung card by flat cables), and working FPGA code to emulate an RK11, using a uSD card for actual storage. It's good enough that the /23 can boot and run V6. We also have working indicator panels: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html but the inlay we've done: http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/indicator-panel-printed.jpg is not a straight copy of an existing panel (those all have lots of lights that only make sense with a real drive, and leave out others that would be really useful, e.g. the address). Here: http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/manual.pdf is the firat crack at the manual for the production version (the RP11 is not done yet). > I could really use a "USIC"... :-) That's next, after the QSIC is out. It will include Able ENABLE: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Able_ENABLE functionality, so UNIBUS machines can have more than 256KB of main memory. > Probably the best thing would be to pop a ROM out of a working /34 and > read it out? Is that how you've gotten your authoritative version? I didn't get it, I found it on BitSavers - I assume that was what whoever provided it did. But it's actually stored in 12 4-bit wide PROMs, U95-U118 (roughly). Noel

7 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller >> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/ > Hmm, this link didn't work for me Arggh, sorry. I simply copied the link from my page: http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/V6Unix.html and didn't check it. :-( I'm a bit suprised that Warren broke everyone's deep links by re-organizing... > I found I think equivalent mirrored at: > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/ > ...which directory contains several file system images and one tape > image, "v6.tape". Argh. I thought there _used_ to be disk images there - maybe they got removed? Anyway, the one you want is now here: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/V6Root Just decant all the bits onto a RK pack, starting at block 0, and you should be able to boot that pack. (I'll fix my page a little later, burned out after the microcode transcription!) > Is that tape image maybe not compatible with SIMH's tape format? It's just a plain copy of the contents of a V6 distribution tape. IIRC, SIMH wants 'tape' files with meta-data such as the length of each tape record, file marks, etc. Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > Oh, one last thing: if anybody else out there has a real working '11/45 > + RK05 and wants to try this RSTS image, let me know, and I'll send you > a copy (all 2.5MB of it, hah). It'd be interesting to see if this a > really just limited to my machine? Good idea. Two more along the same lines: Try running your RSTS image on Ersatz-11, see if it's a simulator issue. And try bringing up Unix V6 on your machine; if it's a hardware issue with your machine, it might show with that, too. (I can help with fault analysis on V6, if _anything_ doesn't work properly.) It will need a single RK pack, I can help with providing the image, if needed. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

by iain＠csp-partnership.co.uk

Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom. If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov <https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ <https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire-lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob 2. I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone board with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70 front-panel running on the same infrastructure) I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the reverse engineering on the panel. Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline it would be much appreciated. Iain

7 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > I've thought about that; Unix V6 is actually next on my list of OS's to > try. I think I have seen a fairly detailed set of instructions on > building an image from this from the commonly available distribution > tape. Yeah, one comes with the V6 distribution: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Setting_up_UNIX_-_Sixth_Edition (That's just a 'do this and then do that' list - if you want to know what it's actually _doing_, this: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_UNIX_Sixth_Edition gives the technical details.) Alas, the instructions don't have a lot of detail on how to create the /45 version (it's quite simple - basically one just includes m45.s instead of m40.s in the linker command line :-); I guess I'll do up a cheat sheet. > But if you have an RK05 image already ready to go, go ahead and send it > over and I'll give it a try! Well, there are single-RK05 images up already: http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/ but they only include binary for /40's (which will run on a /45 of course; they distributed only the lowest-common-denominator binary, to make their life simple; people have to build their own binary - system and commands - if they want to upgrade). But if you'd like me to make up an RK05 image with a /45 system on it too (one gets to specify what one wants to load at boot time); let me know, and I can whip it up - but really, it's drop-dead simple to build a /45 version if you have the /40 version running. Note: the pack images on the distribution tape _do not_ include the bootstrap in block 0; use the one I linked to above. > It wasn't clear to me last time I looked that I could build V6 to run > off a single pack without having a second RK05 drive and pack available > for swap? No, the image above is for a single RK drive machine; it will run that way, albeit things are a bit cramped. What it does is put a file system in blocks 1-4000, and it uses blocks 4000 and up as the swap area (I forget which one block 4000 itself goes with :-). > Day gig starts back up today after winter break, so less bandwidth for > PDP-11 hacking now unfortunately! :-( Well, at least you have something to go back to; the spousal unit works for NASA, and they're all getting an enforced extended break (much to her annoyance). Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Grant Taylor > Is "byte" the correct term for 6-bits? I thought a "byte" had always > been 8-bits. I don't claim wide familiary with architectural jargon from the early days, but the PDP-10 at least (I don't know about other prominent 36-bit machines such as the IBM 7094/etc, and the GE 635/645) supported 'bytes' of any size, with 'byte pointers' used in a couple of instructions which could extract and deposit 'bytes' from a word; the pointers specified the starting bit, and the width of the 'byte'. These were used for both SIXBIT (an early character encoding), and ASCII (7-bit bytes, 5 per word, with one bit left over). > I would have blindly substituted "word" in place of "byte" except for > the fact that you subsequently say "12-bit words". I don't know if > "words" is parallel on purpose, as in representing a quantity of two > 6-bit word. I think 'word' was usually used to describe the instruction size (although some machines also supported 'half-word' instructions), and also the machine's 'ordinary' length - e.g. for the accumulator(s), the quantum of data transfer to/from memory, etc. Not necessarily memory addresses, mind - on the PDP-10, those were 18 bits (i.e. half-word) - although the smallest thing _named_ by a memory addresses was usually a word. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > Thanks, Noel -- I'll give that a try! Sure - always glad to help with anything V6 related - that's my chief technical amusement, now that I'm retired! :-) Any questions/issues, let me know, and I'll try and get right back. When booting UNIX, remember make sure the switches on your /45 are set to 0173030, so it comes up single-user! (Might we worth checking to see if all the bits in the SR are working, but you've probably already done that as part of bringing the machine up? I wonder if a failure there could cause the RSTS issue? It's so cool that you have a working /45! I have yet to start on mine...) And do icheck/dcheck every time you bring it up, and make sure to 'sync' before halting... These old systems are not as robust in terms of the file system! And when it gets to putting together a /45 version of the OS, that new page I just did should help. Noel

7 years, 3 months

1
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VueSCAN

by cctalk＠ibm51xx.net

Does anyone know if old versions of VueSCAN worked on anything below XP (e.g. Win 9x, 2K or even gasp 3.x)? Thanks. -Ali

7 years, 3 months

4
6
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I guess I'll do up a cheat sheet. OK, first crack here: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Upgrading_UNIX_Sixth_Edition If there are any improvement I can/should make, please let me know. Thanks! Noel

7 years, 3 months

1
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VueSCAN

by couryhouse＠aol.com

no only hp scan jets no other brands and only the first few models.? thanks though. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Monday, January 7, 2019 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2019, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > my foggy? brain? remembers them? as? I retied? ?the biz? end of > things? before? ? win 95? ?came out. About 1992. After Windoze 3.00 (I got "beta" Windoze 3.10 in August 1991, public release soon after?), and about the time of 3.11 I have a couple of parallel/SCSI scanners new? in box to get rid of.? I don't know if their drivers were TWAIN.

7 years, 3 months

1
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VueSCAN

by couryhouse＠aol.com

my foggy? brain? remembers them? as? I retied? ?the biz? end of things? before? ? win 95? ?came out. and? I? seem to remember? twain? as a term? used? with hp scanjets? before retirement.\ when i? ?left? ?scanjet? ?2c? was? current? color? product.]anyone? coming thou? az? ?with a? scanjet iic? in the? car...? it? would? be? welcome here..we? have? an orig? ?hpscanjet? b/w? ?but? can use another one? for an offsite? display also. ed sharpe archivist for smecc In a message dated 1/7/2019 2:11:37 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: > On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 at 02:39, Ali via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:>>? I wonder if there were ever any TWAIN drivers for Win 3.x..... Yes, but I think that you needed WIN32S installed. On Mon, 7 Jan 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:> This is stretching my powers of recollection -- and in my world, back> then, if you could afford (and wanted) a scanner, you used a Mac --> but I think so, yes. 1) some could not afford Mac? (rarely any in the skip)2) some did not have control over employer's purchasing decisions3) depending on what was being scanned, other factors influenced platform > We are all aware of what that acronym means, yes? But few pay any attention to any technology without an interesting name.And of those who do and the rest, never the twain shall meet. --Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com

7 years, 3 months

2
1
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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing just fine. Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12: "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems." :-) Noel

7 years, 3 months

5
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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

On Sun, 2019-01-06 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8 Nothing has changed as regards the number of bits in a byte, a nybble is 4 bits, 8 to the byte, and x to the word - this last varies widely depending on architecture. Still, in Spirit, on an octal processor a whole number is a six bit 'byte', so the term is appropriate, especially to avoid confusion with the word size of two six bit 'bytes'. Fun. Jeff

7 years, 3 months

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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave Wade > The only machine I know where a "byte" is not eight bits is the > Honeywell L6000 and its siblings I'm not sure why I bother to post to this list, since apparently people don't bother to read my messages. >From the "pdp10 reference handbook", 1970, section 2.3, "Byte Manipulation", page 2-15: "This set of five instructions allows the programmer to pack or unpack bytes of any length from anywhere within a word. ... The byte manipulation instructions have the standard memory reference format, but the effective address E is used to retrieve a pointer, which is used in turn to locate the byte ... The pointer has the format 0 5 6 11 12 13 14 17 18 35 P S I X Y where S is the size of the byte as a number of bits, and P as its position as the number of bits remaining at the right of the byte in the word ... To facilitate processing a series of bytes, several of the byte instructions increment the pointer, ie modify it so that it points to the next byte position in a set of memory locations. Bytes are processed from left to right in a word, so incrementing merely replaces the current value of P by P-S, unless there is insufficient space in the present location [i.e. 'word' - JNC] for another byte of the specified size (P-S < 0). In this case Y is increased by one to point at the next consecutive location, and P is set to 36 - S to point to the first byte at the left in the new location." Now imagine implementing all that in FLIP CHIPs which held transistors (this is before ICs)! Anyway, like I said, at least ITS (of the PDP-10 OS's) used this to store ASCII in words which contain five 7-bit _bytes_. I don't know if TENEX did. > I also feel the use of the term Octet was more marketing to distance > ones machines from IBM..... Huh? Which machine used the term 'octet'? Like I said, we adapted and used the term 'octet' in TCP/IP documentation (and that's definite - go check out historical documents, e.g. RFC-675 from 1974) because 'byte' was at the time ambiguous - the majority of machines on the ARPANET at that point were PDP-10's (see above). Interestingly, I see it's not defined in that document (or in the earlier RFC-635), so it must have already been in use for an 8-bit quantity? Doing a little research, there is a claim that Bob Bemer independently invented the term in 1965/66. Perhaps someone subconciously remembered his proposal, and that's the ultimate source? The term is also long used in chemistry and music, of course, so perhaps that's where it came from. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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Decus #8-250 Fast Fourier Transform

by djg＠pdp8online.com

Anybody on the list get these tapes? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Decus-8-250-Fast-Fourier-Transform-FFT-Software-on… I missed seeing that auction.

7 years, 3 months

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ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust for playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around, looking for a home? Thanks in advance.

7 years, 3 months

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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: William Donzelli >> in 1980, there were more PDP-11's, world-wide, than any other kind of >> computer. > I bet the guys at Zilog might have something to talk to you about. I was quoting my memory of a DEC ad in the WSJ, which now that I go check, says the -11 was "the best-selling computer in the world" (the ad was in 1980). There are a number of possible explanations as to why it makes this claim: - some marketing person made it up - they were only counting things that were general-purpose (i.e. came with mass storage and compilers) - they didn't consider micros as "computers" (many were used in things like printers, etc, and were not usable as general-purpose computers) Etc, etc. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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IDOL/VS Manual

by silent700＠gmail.com

I am preparing to scan this manual on the IDOL/VS database system, which was initially a product of "Systems Specialties" but was later purchased by MAI for their Basic Four systems. I can't find any documentation on this product on Bitsavers or anywhere else. If anyone is aware of this manual online, please let me know. And if anyone wants the original once it's scanned, I'll be happy to send it for the cost of postage from 60070. J

7 years, 3 months

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Miscellaneous Equipment for free (Mostly DEC) in Lexington KY

by useddec＠gmail.com

Any Uni-bus or PDP8 items? I have plenty of boxes or I would jump on it, but if some one picks them up I have most of the boards. Thanks, Paul On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 2:06 PM keith--- via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Miscellaneous Equipment for free (Mostly DEC) in Lexington KY. Local > Pick highly preferred. > > I need to empty my storage unit. I have various pieces available for > free, local pickup. > > One thing to note, it has not been stored properly. It has been stored > in a rental storage unit with no heat or cooling. I do not know if any > of the units are still functional and there is no power at the storage > unit to verify the equipment. > > 1) BA23 Chassis. Was a PDP11/23 at some point but there are no cards > or drives. It is in the tower configuration but the front cover is > missing. > > 2) DecStation 3100. Appears complete and in decent condition. > > 3) VT220 terminal. Very yellowed > > 4) A few LK201 keyboards. Not pretty > > 5) VRM17-HA Monitor. 17" monochrome monitor for a Vaxstation. It did > work at one time but see above. Yellowed. > > 6) IBM CRT VGA Monochrome monitor > > 7) Macintosh SE. With Ethernet! Very Yellowed. > > 8) BA213 Chassis. Some corrosion and possible water damage. Back-plane > looks very good. Insulation is deteriorating. This was a Microvax 3500 > at one time until the mice got in. > > Picture are available here: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/stupido/albums/72157702145168162 > > I may add more equipment to the list as I sort things out. I want to > empty the storage unit by the end of this month. Anything that I can't > or don't want to keep then will go to recycle. > > thanks > > Max >

7 years, 3 months

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off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr > I think it's also telling that the IETF uses the term octet in all of > the specifications to refer to 8-bit sized data. Yes; at the time the TCP/IP specs were done, PDP-10's were still probably the most numerous machines on the 'net, so we were careful to use 'octet'. Although the writing was clearly on the wall, which is why it's all in octets, with no support for other-length words (unlike the ARPANET, which sort of supported word lengths which were not a multiple of 8 or 16 - which was actually use to transfer binary data between 36-bit machines). > It *may* have been the IBM 360 that started the trend of Byte = > 8-bits Yup. And then the PDP-11 put the nail in that coffin (and in 1980, there were more PDP-11's, world-wide, than any other kind of computer). Noel

7 years, 3 months

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Microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

What defines a 'modern processor'. The term is pretty slippery. The Crusoe used microcode to emulate x86 and could therefore emulate any processor architecture Transmeta wanted. Crusoe was a pioneer in the low power market, the processor dynamically clocked itself in very small steps depending on need. This is a familiar feature now but was pretty revolutionary for the time. Interestingly, Linux Torvalds was in on the design and was on the board of Transmeta. A fair number were sold to Sony for their VIAO series of notebooks. Does Crusoe qualify as a 'modern' processor? In my book yes, but I have a very old book.. :0 best, Jeff

7 years, 3 months

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Microcode dated?

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

On Sun, 2019-01-06 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis) > 2. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis) > 3. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE) > 4. off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP > (Dr Iain Maoileoin) > 5. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE) > 6. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller) > 7. uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jacob Ritorto) > 8. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Richard Cini) > 9. KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Noel Chiappa) > 10. Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Fritz Mueller) > 11. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss) > 12. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jerry Weiss) > 13. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller) > 14. ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (drlegendre) > 15. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (wrcooke at wrcooke.net) > 16. SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U have one? > or a hi res clean scan? (ED SHARPE) > 17. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Al Kossow) > 18. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Josh Dersch) > 19. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell) > 20. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss) > 21. Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB (Curious Marc) > 22. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller) > 23. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell) > 24. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller) > 25. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (devin davison) > 26. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? > HELP (Bob Smith) > 27. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? > HELP (Grant Taylor) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:10:04 -0800 > From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> > To: Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) > Message-ID: <1651425f-f406-205d-5284-1e6fd1d7c00a at sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Okay, I think I found the reference to it. > > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in > the > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'. To > quote: > > "The 1966 winner was William J. Elliott, a 12th grade student at West > High School in Minneapolis. His project, ELTRAN, is an algorithmic > language compiler system for the UNIVAC 422 computer. Until the > development of ELTRAN, no compiler existed for the computer." > > See PDF page 10 here: > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/computersAndAutomation/196701.pdf > > --Chuck > > P.S. One of these days, I'm going to host a course on "how to use > Google". > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:17:52 -0800 > From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> > To: Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) > Message-ID: <6e237124-1ac7-700d-b9be-beda8f3a0e16 at sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're > going to find much on it. However, see the post by Steve Schweda > here: > > https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-th… > > He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some > documentation exists. > > --Chuck > > > > > On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Okay, I think I found the reference to it. > > > > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in > > the > > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to > > 12'. To quote: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:21:53 +0000 (UTC) > From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) > Message-ID: <1152753582.13550260.1546712513898 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > (COME ON SOCRATES ...? DO YOUR? THING!) > > In a message dated 1/5/2019 1:49:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: > > no is compiler a small one only 2 do loops allowed...ed# > Sent from AOL Mobile MailOn Friday, January 4, 2019 Chuck Guzis via > cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:On 1/4/19 8:42 > PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:> Would be? interesting when you find > it.> Not necessarily "tiny"> Remember WATFOR??? (very impressive!) > I guesss not too many numerical methods types hwere, but ELTRAN is > asubroutine in the EISPACK linear programming set.? Yes, it's all > FORTRAN: > > From the subroutine: > cc? ? this subroutine is a translation of the algol procedure > elmtrans,c? ? num. math. 16, 181-204(1970) by peters and wilkinson.c? > ? handbook for auto. comp., vol.ii-linear algebra, 372-395(1971).cc? > ? this subroutine accumulates the stabilized elementaryc? ? > similarity transformations used in the reduction of ac? ? real > general matrix to upper hessenberg form by? elmhes. > --Chuck > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:36:56 +0000 > From: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP > Message-ID: > <4BDE03FE-1A04-4060-B245-6EFDDC503B42 at csp-partnership.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom. > > If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov < > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ < > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire- > lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob 2. > > I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone board > with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70 front- > panel running on the same infrastructure) > > I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this > saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the > reverse engineering on the panel. > > Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline it > would be much appreciated. > > Iain > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:17:56 +0000 (UTC) > From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cclist at sydex.com, COURYHOUSE at aol.com > Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR > STUFF!))) > Message-ID: <860959218.13562972.1546715876710 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Chuck! Many thanks! > Update on? 422 UNIVAC? docs . .? some kind? ?people have mailed in? > docs and? ?things? they have? found related to this? 422 UNIVAC ...? > things are? shaping up! Many? thanks? ?to? all? these? folks- > > I? fear ever putting power to this? thing... so? may? parts to go? > POP... I have a nice large? Variac.....? ?suggestions? > Ed > > In a message dated 1/5/2019 11:18:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: > Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're > going to find much on it.? However, see the post by Steve Schweda > here: > > https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-th… > > He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some > documentation exists. > > --Chuck > > > > > On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Okay, I think I found the reference to it. > > > > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in > > the > > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'.? > > To quote: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 12:58:44 -0800 > From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <06515329-3961-4FF4-87FE-C11C3FDEF2AD at fritzm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > From: Fritz Mueller > > > All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing just > > > fine. > > > > Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12: > > "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.? > > Well, there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-) > > Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with the > non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It behaved > exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping, counting up > errors) on boot. > > So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the > issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A > memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen so > far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today. > > Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to try > and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault? > > I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while > waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish up > the standalone CRC dumper utility today. > > Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show up > in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to > interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast > bits on and off the machine soon. > > cheers, > --FritzM. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:46:33 -0500 > From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: uc04 + scsi2sd ? > Message-ID: > < > CAHYQbfABUeqYRHVCDGFJW=AWwEmP85aCn5GUNeeVvbxKVNw=Ow at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hey all, > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just > bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to > think > there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck. > > thx > jake > > P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly > to > plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller > bridge > things? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:51:54 +0000 (UTC) > From: Richard Cini <rich.cini at verizon.net> > To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? > Message-ID: > < > C8CACE9E45EB766D.E58C2E33-FDBF-42C3-836D-A38B62C941C3 at mail.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > > I use it with a UC07. Not sure what the difference in the > controllers is thought. > > > > Get Outlook for iOS > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 5:46 PM -0500, "Jacob Ritorto via cctalk" < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey all, > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just > bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to > think > there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck. > > thx > jake > > P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly > to > plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller > bridge > things? > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:35:38 -0500 (EST) > From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu > Subject: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams > Message-ID: <20190105233538.972AD18C0BE at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > > The copy of the KD11-EA engineering drawings (in the 11/34A Field > Maintenance > Print Set, MP-00190) on Bitsavers is missing most of the pages that > hold the > microcode flow diagrams. I have a set of the KD11-EA FMPS (MP-00192), > which > does have all the missing pages, which I can eventually scan. > However, in the > interim, the 11/34 Field Maintenance Print Set Vol. 2 (MP-00082) on > Bitsavers > has a complete set of microcode flow diagrams for the KD11-E (pp. 15- > 40 of the > PDF), and they are almost identical to the KD11-EA diagrams. > > The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if > each page > had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last > microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The > actual > microinstruction contents seem to be the same.) > > I don't know whyo the changed address; I originally thought that > perhaps they > had to re-do the IR Decode ROMs when they added floating point, and > they > needed the original location to handle the start of the floating > point > microcode, but that doesn't seem to be the case. > > Noel > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:04:29 -0800 > From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams > Message-ID: <B740924C-3A2A-467D-BD20-71373D26569D at fritzm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if > > each page > > had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last > > microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The > > actual > > microinstruction contents seem to be the same.) > > That?s interesting... So what?s at 002 now? Maybe something new was > required there by micro branch/fork logic, so the original contents > had to be moved? > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:06:48 -0600 > From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org> > To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <c8bf1cf0-1cdc-f63b-278a-d0ccd75a86b1 at ieee.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 1/5/19 2:58 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk < > > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Fritz Mueller > > > > All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing > > > > just fine. > > > Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12: > > > "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.? > > Well, there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-) > > > > Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with > > the non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It > > behaved exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping, > > counting up errors) on boot. > > > > So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the > > issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A > > memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen > > so far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today. > > > > Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to > > try and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault? > > > > I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while > > waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish > > up the standalone CRC dumper utility today. > > > > Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show > > up in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to > > interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast > > bits on and off the machine soon. > > > > cheers, > > --FritzM. > > > Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting > RT11(FB,XM) > on the machine and give it a workout.?? This would exercise the > machine > a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much as RSTS. > > A few suggestions from my ancient history running RK11-C and a mix > of > DEC and Diablo Drives.? I regularly disassembled, moved cross > country > and reassembled PDP 11/34 and LSI 11/73 systems. I ran them in small > rooms which housed saltwater tanks containing sea creatures. > > * Given the age of this equipment, double check all the ground > connections between the cabinets, PDU's, drives, outlets and CPU. > * Carefully check for breaks or problems with drive cables and > terminators. > * I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C if the second disk > bus > is unused. > * Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be booted of > from DK4. > * Make sure you only have one LTC active if a DL11-W and a KW11 are > both in use. > * If you are not using a common PDU for the CPU, Drive and RK11-C > power supplies, make sure they all powered from outlets on the > same > phase. > * Don't leave the disk packs or drives near the tanks.? The squid > have > good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices. > > ??? Jerry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:27:15 -0600 > From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org> > To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? > Message-ID: <8f48055c-6ca2-d342-25d2-4c2baaedb0d3 at ieee.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hi Jake, > > I don't have a UC04, but its manual states its? Peripheral Interface > is > SCSI single ended.? The pinout is just like the UC07, except for > terminator power. > > ??? Jerry > > On 1/5/19 4:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: > > Hey all, > > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I > > just > > bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems > > to think > > there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck. > > > > thx > > jake > > > > P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to > > directly to > > plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller > > bridge > > things? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:44:51 -0800 > From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <2CA1BCC4-8E94-4A21-9A3F-10F3AFFDBA03 at fritzm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Jerry, > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 4:06 PM, Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org> wrote: > > > > Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting > > RT11(FB,XM) on the machine and give it a workout. This would > > exercise the machine a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much > > as RSTS. > > Yup, I have previously had RT-11 running on this machine without > incident. > > > ? I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C if the second > > disk bus is unused. > > Yep, got that in there. > > > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be booted of > > from DK4. > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 disk > selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? > > > ? Make sure you only have one LTC active if a DL11-W and a KW11 > > are both in use. > > Only a DL11-W in this system. > > > ? Don't leave the disk packs or drives near the tanks. The > > squid have good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices. > > Ah, haven?t checked that one yet. I will carefully check my basement > for squid! > > --FritzM. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:42:10 -0600 > From: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo > Message-ID: > < > CAFjrmd4Y27od8rxFBHcszAV4=KANscJyuVq31mn6ckE7AQ+wjg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust for > playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around, > looking > for a home? > > Thanks in advance. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:02:21 -0500 (EST) > From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net > To: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo > Message-ID: <2039907214.341781.1546743741252 at email.ionos.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > On January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust > > for > > playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around, > > looking > > for a home? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I > thought I had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find > it. Would one of those work for you? > > Will > > > "He may look dumb but that's just a disguise."? -- Charlie Daniels > > > "The names of global variables should start with? ? // "? --? > https://isocpp.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 03:03:29 +0000 (UTC) > From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U > have one? > or a hi res clean scan? > Message-ID: <2056564350.13640687.1546743809848 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Howdy? from the? ?desert? lands in Arizona!Early in the? HP DOS? PC? > campaign? there was the? monarch? butterfly poster used to advertise? > HP? 150 ... seeking to recreate? a duplicate? in a? corner of? the? > room our? little? hp 150? computer exchange inc? ?demo desk? area? > .... the? poster ( or a? print of it... )? ?is? needed! > What? great? fun we are? having...? got a? 2886a? (need paper feeder? > and receiver? little? flap? things that hung off? printer though)and > the? stake of? all the? '150' blue? box? ?software'? to have there > too? and other things? ? for the era...any other early poster > material? good? too... the monarch? one is? what? sticks in my? > brain... > OK? also the? HP Portable 110? came? along too... interested in Ad? > material for? it... have most of the hardware? to? look? ?interesting > I? think. > THANKS IN ADVANCE? ED SHARPE? ARCHIVIST FOR SMECC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:55:49 -0800 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? > Message-ID: <9fc4ea8d-2b99-5682-4bef-a25799b4cfd1 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: > > Hey all, > > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? > > Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non- > embedded > scsi adapters. > > In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters > with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04 > does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 20:41:21 -0800 > From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? > Message-ID: <97bc8c2b-9143-3d42-4c22-ec58452b17a3 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > On 1/5/2019 7:55 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? > > Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non- > > embedded > > scsi adapters. > > > > In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters > > with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04 > > does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000. > > > Al's right; I'll add two things: > > 1) I've used a SCSI2SD in other systems that formerly used an > Adaptec > 4000/5000 controller with some success, but I was only ever able to > get > a single drive to work at a time; you may have similar luck with the > SCSI2SD if you configure it just right. > > 2) The SCSI2SD does currently have support for emulating some of > these > early controllers/bridges, but the Adaptecs aren't on the list yet > -- > however the SCSI2SD's creator has been open to feature requests in > the > past, and might be able to add support, and documentation for the > Adaptect boards is readily available.? (And the SCSI2SD firmware's > open > as well, so you can hack it in yourself if you have the time, etc.) > > - Josh > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:17:50 +0000 > From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> > To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: > < > CAHkUCCzgCmUGP4fD9aKTtNGVfqWahVRxWgHAVSAiu3FHU2J-8g at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be > > > booted of from DK4. > > > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 > > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? > > No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does drive > selects. > The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a > time. The RK11-D > has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the > G740 I think) that > is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1- > of-4 select > only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D. > > So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3. > On > the second > cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If it's > jumpered as drive > 0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's > jumpered > as drive 0 and > you connect it to the second connector it's DK4. > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 23:37:19 -0600 > From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org> > To: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, Fritz Mueller > <fritzm at fritzm.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <0381aa1f-bb09-17c7-490f-ed8247779015 at ieee.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 1/5/19 11:17 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk > > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be > > > > booted of from DK4. > > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 > > > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? > > No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does > > drive selects. > > The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a > > time. The RK11-D > > has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the > > G740 I think) that > > is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1- > > of-4 select > > only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D. > > > > So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3. > > On > > the second > > cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If > > it's > > jumpered as drive > > 0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's > > jumpered > > as drive 0 and > > you connect it to the second connector it's DK4. > > > > -tony > > I have used a Diablo drive with 1 of 4 selection on a third party > RKV11 > controller which was 3 bit binary. > It only worked as DK1, DK2 or DK4 for obvious reasons. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:40:10 -0800 > From: Curious Marc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com> > To: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <technoid6502 at gmail.com>, "General > Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB > Message-ID: <1B9BC890-8E94-4184-A6F8-6AAD35F5F924 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Interconnects at 28Gb/s/lane have been out for a while now, supported > by quite a few chips. 56Gb/s PAM4 is around the corner, and we run > 100Gb/s in the lab right now. Just sayin? ;-). That said, we throw in > about every equalization trick we know of, PCB materials are getting > quite exotic and connectors are pretty interesting. We have to hand > hold our customers to design their interconnect traces and connector > breakouts. And you can?t go too far, with increasing reliance on > micro-twinax or on-board optics for longer distances and backplanes. > Marc > > > On Jan 4, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Apropos of nothing, I've been confuse for some time regarding > > maximum > > clock rates for local bus. > > > > My admittedly old information, which comes from the 3rd ed. of > > "High > > Performance Computer Architecture", a course I audited, indicates a > > maximum speed on the order of 1ghz for very very short trace > > lengths. > > > > Late model computers boast multi-hundred to multi gigahertz > > fsb's. Am > > I wrong in thinking this is an aggregate of several serial lines > > running at 1 to 200mhz? No straight answer has presented on > > searches > > online. > > > > So here's the question. Is maximum fsb on standard, non-optical > > bus > > still limited to a maximum of a couple of hundred megahertz, or did > > something happen in the last decade or two that changed things > > dramatically? I understand, at least think I do, that these > > ridiculously high frequency claims would not survive capacitance > > issues > > and RFI issues. When my brother claimed a 3.2ghz bus speed for his > > machine I just told him that was wrong, impossible for practical > > purposes, that it had to be an aggregate figure, a 'Pentium rating' > > sort of number rather than the actual clock speed. I envision > > switching bus tech akin to present networking, paralleled to > > sidestep > > the limit while keeping pin and trace counts low.....? Something > > like > > the PCIe 'lane' scheme in present use? This is surmise based on my > > own > > experience. > > > > When I was current, the way out of this limitation was fiber-optics > > for > > the bus. This was used in supercomputing and allowed interconnects > > of > > longer length at ridiculous speeds. > > > > Thanks for allowing me to entertain this question. Though it is > > not > > specifically a classic computer question, it does relate to > > development > > and history. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Technoid Mutant (Jeff Worley) > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:45:39 -0800 > From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <52B95127-1712-4E7E-AF23-879C42FD7F1D at fritzm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:17 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk > > > > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 > > > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess? > > > > No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does > > drive selects. > > ... The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. > > Hi Tony, > > I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C backplane, appearing on > sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the last > paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual? > > On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all > other jumpers are unpopulated. > > --FritzM. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:51:18 +0000 > From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> > To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: > < > CAHkUCCwiheajcd31QFD6YMEQVVDk8qM98arTz9RTqy5pPMCmDA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C backplane, appearing > > on sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the > > last paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual? > > > > On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all > > other jumpers are unpopulated. > > Ooops... > > Yes, you do have to fit the jumper there. Actually, is there a good > reason not to fit all > jumpers on that board? > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:58:48 -0800 > From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: <AE581820-081C-44E4-A543-406FC31FB533 at fritzm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > Actually, is there a good reason not to fit all jumpers on that > > board? > > Looking at it, I was just wondering the same thing! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:53:34 -0500 > From: devin davison <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com> > To: wrcooke at wrcooke.net, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo > Message-ID: > < > CAOpB=UM9O-iJHzRjfgo805+qJ52OzjPPGmH1O=cyH9yq380PmQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have a stockpile of them. Will get you pictures tomorrow. > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 11:59 PM Will Cooke via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > > On January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust > > > for > > > playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around, > > > looking > > > for a home? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I > > thought I > > had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find > > it. Would one > > of those work for you? > > > > Will > > > > > > "He may look dumb but that's just a disguise." -- Charlie Daniels > > > > > > "The names of global variables should start with // " -- > > https://isocpp.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 09:08:03 -0500 > From: Bob Smith <bobsmithofd at gmail.com> > To: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk>, "General > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? > HELP > Message-ID: > < > CAHtNYbW0GBXV+UPRCwGMZzCnvMNpLCiF5LkG6wez_65w3YxMSQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > https://hapoc2015.sciencesconf.org/file/176702 > > gives a Little more history on Soviet copies of computers. > The timing of the production of the Capatob 2 seems to make it a > PDP8/L clone, not an M. What is called the 8 is really based on the > 5, > used 6-bit bytes, 12 bit words, and was Octal based - memory was the > most expensive part of the system at least through the early 70s, and > thus 12 bit words for double precision, 24bits, was a reasonable > approach for a scientific computer. > bb > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:37 PM Dr Iain Maoileoin via cctalk > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom. > > > > If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov < > > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ < > > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire- > > lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob > > 2. > > > > I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone > > board with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70 > > front-panel running on the same infrastructure) > > > > I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this > > saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the > > reverse engineering on the panel. > > > > Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline > > it would be much appreciated. > > > > Iain > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:42:15 -0700 > From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? > HELP > Message-ID: > < > aec7d8ba-4356-8f6f-9bfe-16ac4932cbc0 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 1/6/19 7:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote: > > What is called the 8 is really based on the 5, used 6-bit bytes, 12 > > bit > > words, and was Octal based > > Is "byte" the correct term for 6-bits? I thought a "byte" had > always > been 8-bits. But I started paying attention in the '90s, so I missed > a lot. > > I would have blindly substituted "word" in place of "byte" except > for > the fact that you subsequently say "12-bit words". I don't know if > "words" is parallel on purpose, as in representing a quantity of two > 6-bit word. > > Will someone please explain what I'm missing that transpired before > I > started paying attention in the '90s? > > >

7 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

by couryhouse＠aol.com

have no idea but do have a feeling it might have been like a 'tiny fortran' Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, January 4, 2019 Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: On Sat, 5 Jan 2019, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > ELTRAN THE COMPILER > ANY DOCS? ANY ONE? USED IT? > (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)) Was? it? one? of the? ones based? on Valtrep? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2017-March/033410.html -- Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com

7 years, 3 months

4
5
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uc04 + scsi2sd ?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

Hey all, Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to think there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck. thx jake P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly to plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller bridge things?

7 years, 3 months

5
4
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SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U have one? or a hi res clean scan?

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Howdy? from the? ?desert? lands in Arizona!Early in the? HP DOS? PC? campaign? there was the? monarch? butterfly poster used to advertise? HP? 150 ... seeking to recreate? a duplicate? in a? corner of? the? room our? little? hp 150? computer exchange inc? ?demo desk? area? .... the? poster ( or a? print of it... )? ?is? needed! What? great? fun we are? having...? got a? 2886a? (need paper feeder? and receiver? little? flap? things that hung off? printer though)and the? stake of? all the? '150' blue? box? ?software'? to have there too? and other things? ? for the era...any other early poster material? good? too... the monarch? one is? what? sticks in my? brain... OK? also the? HP Portable 110? came? along too... interested in Ad? material for? it... have most of the hardware? to? look? ?interesting I? think. THANKS IN ADVANCE? ED SHARPE? ARCHIVIST FOR SMECC

7 years, 3 months

1
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KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

The copy of the KD11-EA engineering drawings (in the 11/34A Field Maintenance Print Set, MP-00190) on Bitsavers is missing most of the pages that hold the microcode flow diagrams. I have a set of the KD11-EA FMPS (MP-00192), which does have all the missing pages, which I can eventually scan. However, in the interim, the 11/34 Field Maintenance Print Set Vol. 2 (MP-00082) on Bitsavers has a complete set of microcode flow diagrams for the KD11-E (pp. 15-40 of the PDF), and they are almost identical to the KD11-EA diagrams. The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if each page had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The actual microinstruction contents seem to be the same.) I don't know whyo the changed address; I originally thought that perhaps they had to re-do the IR Decode ROMs when they added floating point, and they needed the original location to handle the start of the floating point microcode, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Noel

7 years, 3 months

2
1
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ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Chuck! Many thanks! Update on? 422 UNIVAC? docs . .? some kind? ?people have mailed in? docs and? ?things? they have? found related to this? 422 UNIVAC ...? things are? shaping up! Many? thanks? ?to? all? these? folks- I? fear ever putting power to this? thing... so? may? parts to go? POP... I have a nice large? Variac.....? ?suggestions? Ed In a message dated 1/5/2019 11:18:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're going to find much on it.? However, see the post by Steve Schweda here: https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-th… He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some documentation exists. --Chuck On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Okay, I think I found the reference to it. > > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in the > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'.? To quote:

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ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

by couryhouse＠aol.com

(COME ON SOCRATES ...? DO YOUR? THING!) In a message dated 1/5/2019 1:49:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: no is compiler a small one only 2 do loops allowed...ed# Sent from AOL Mobile MailOn Friday, January 4, 2019 Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:On 1/4/19 8:42 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:> Would be? interesting when you find it.> Not necessarily "tiny"> Remember WATFOR??? (very impressive!) I guesss not too many numerical methods types hwere, but ELTRAN is asubroutine in the EISPACK linear programming set.? Yes, it's all FORTRAN: >From the subroutine: cc? ? this subroutine is a translation of the algol procedure elmtrans,c? ? num. math. 16, 181-204(1970) by peters and wilkinson.c? ? handbook for auto. comp., vol.ii-linear algebra, 372-395(1971).cc? ? this subroutine accumulates the stabilized elementaryc? ? similarity transformations used in the reduction of ac? ? real general matrix to upper hessenberg form by? elmhes. --Chuck

7 years, 3 months

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ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

by couryhouse＠aol.com

no is compiler a small one only 2 do loops allowed...ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, January 4, 2019 Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On 1/4/19 8:42 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Would be? interesting when you find it. > Not necessarily "tiny" > Remember WATFOR??? (very impressive!) I guesss not too many numerical methods types hwere, but ELTRAN is a subroutine in the EISPACK linear programming set.? Yes, it's all FORTRAN: >From the subroutine: c c? ? this subroutine is a translation of the algol procedure elmtrans, c? ? num. math. 16, 181-204(1970) by peters and wilkinson. c? ? handbook for auto. comp., vol.ii-linear algebra, 372-395(1971). c c? ? this subroutine accumulates the stabilized elementary c? ? similarity transformations used in the reduction of a c? ? real general matrix to upper hessenberg form by? elmhes. --Chuck

7 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning >> On Dec 31, 2018, at 6:32 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >> ... >> There are one or two bits in a register of the RK11 that have a >> different meaning/function, depending on the controller being a -C or >> -D. > If someone can point me to the description of the differences I should > be able to say what RSTS will do with them. AFAIK, the only difference (in programming terms) between the -C and -D is that the -D has dropped the maintainance register. Although I cheerfully admit I haven't sat down with -C and -D manuals and done a bit-by-bit compare. I just did that (I used the "RK11-C Moving Head Disk Drive Controller Manual", DEC-11-HRKA-D, and the 1976 "Peripherals Handbook"), and found in the following: In the RKDS: bit 7 has changed the definition slightly ("Drive Ready" to "R/W/S Ready"), but seems to be basically the same. In the RKCS, bit 9 is "Read/Write All" in the -C, and unused in the -D; bit 12 is "Maint" in the -C, unused in the -D. In other words, a -D driver should work just fine with a -C, IMO. Noel

7 years, 3 months

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ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

by couryhouse＠aol.com

ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? ANY ONE? USED IT? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)) ED#

7 years, 3 months

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Microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

>-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Carlo Pisani via cctalk >Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2019 5:35 PM >To: ben; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: Motorola M88K books & user manuals (looking for) > >> I was never a fan of RISC architecture as does not fit the standard high >> level language model. Everybody wants a 1 pass compiler, thus the RISC >> model. If you are doing your own RISC model, you might consider a model >> that supports Effective addressing better since we have got the point >> where fetching the data is taking longer than processing it. > >yup. I am a 68k programmer so I know what you mean. >the 68k is more comfortable to be programmed in assembly, and even the >EA modes (especially in the 68020 and CPU32) help a lot. > >unfortunately, the 68K is very complex to be designed, and the first >68020 used microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs. > >... I'm curious as to why you make this claim that microcode is no-go in "modern" designs. Could you please elaborate on this point? I don't see why the alternative random control logic would be a better proposition. Thanks, paul

7 years, 3 months

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music dec tapes? (paper)

by tdk.knight＠gmail.com

anyone seen these music tapes before i grabed this trays for the oddnes of the content of these tapes? also apears to have the software to play them? https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Lot-of-15-digital-decus-Paper-Tapes-w-Case/27362862… https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Lot-of-8-digital-decus-Paper-Tapes-w-Case/273628539… would this be some weird synthy type thing? control points for the sound boaerd used for automation on some fancy desk? or somthing els?

7 years, 3 months

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SPACE WAR for PDP-11 - link issues

by mattislind＠gmail.com

So after some intensive transcribing work I finally got all files into source files ready for assembling using PAL11-S. Assembling under PAL11-S rooted out a bunch of errors and then when side by side comparing the output listing with the PDF I found a bunch of more errors. The next step involved linking and during the first run a number of errors surfaced again. On the last run I only had two undefined: $ICO and $ICI. It makes sense since these two are part of the FPMP-11 package and used for number conversion. However adding the FPMP-11 object as an extra input in the link does not resolve these two undefined symbols. Does anyone have a clue on how to get a proper link with FPMP-11 for these two symbols? Here is the repo with PDF files, source PAL files, LST files and OBJ files as generated by PAL11-S: https://github.com/MattisLind/SPACEWAR /Mattis

7 years, 3 months

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Which DEC machine made use of th pre Flip-Chip board?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > I cannot figure out which early machine it comes from. They're called 'System Modules': http://gunkies.org/wiki/System_Module and they were used from the PDP-1 through (I think) the PDP-7; at least, this PDP-7 internals image: https://www.soemtron.org/images/jpgs/decimages/sn113robertjohnson85680004.j… seems to show System Modules at the top, and FLIP CHIPs at the bottom. (I'm pretty sure even the first PDP-8 - the 'straight 8' - uses only early FLIP CHIPs - transistorized ones.) The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little puzzling; it says (p. 2) that "INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated circuits"? Noel

7 years, 3 months

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wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.

by couryhouse＠aol.com

wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING? bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.... ed#? SMECC Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

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