wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
29 Dec
2018
29 Dec
'18
10 a.m.
wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING? bound or unbound... dtop us a
line off list please.... ed#? SMECC
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
29 Dec
29 Dec
11:49 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
I just passed along three boxes of these to the VCFed collection.
Eventually I assume there will be a library to make these available onsite,
not sure.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 1:01 PM ED SHARPE via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or
unbound... dtop us a line off list please.... ed# SMECC
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
noon
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 12/29/18 11:49 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
I just passed along three boxes of these to the VCFed
collection.
Eventually I assume there will be a library to make these available onsite,
not sure.
Stupid question, but doesn't IEEE CS already have these archived? (Yes,
I know for access, you need to cross their palm with silver, but it
might point to copyright issues).
--Chuck
12:05 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 12/29/18 12:00 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Stupid question, but doesn't IEEE CS already have
these archived?
of course they are
we are speaking with paper obsessed siverfish lovers here though
4:35 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
At 12:05 PM 29/12/2018 -0800, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 12/29/18 12:00 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Coming from you that's a worrying comment, unless you are joking.
So Al, just curious, once bitsavers has scanned the manuals and stuff people send them,
what happens to those paper originals?
Does bit savers return them? Or make them available to others?
Can people sending manuals to bitsavers get a guarantee (if they ask for it) the originals
won't be destroyed?
I'm asking while bearing in mind an instance of tech history loss in Australia a few
decades ago, particularly tragic.
An outfit called High Country Service Data, located in the Kosciuszko area, had a vast
collection of service and
user manuals, including a lot of early Oz-tech stuff like from BWD.
Their business model was 'rented lending library.' You contacted them (phone or
post) and if they
had the manual you wanted they'd post it to you for a fee. You kept it a limited time,
then posted back to them.
Eventually scanners became available. HCSD thought their business would work better if
they eliminated
physical storage costs. They 'scanned' all the manuals (ultra crap resolution,
B&W, stupid ignorant
goofs, etc) then.... DESTROYED the originals. Because they didn't want to sell or give
them away
or even donate to the Australian national library, since that might create a competitor.
This is not conjecture; the HCSD owner (who made those decisions) personally
'explained' that to me on the phone.
The prime benefit of silverfish infested bulky piles of old paper, distributed widely
among individuals who
value history, is that no central entity can just suddenly decide to destroy them all, for
whatever reason.
Or 'mass edit' the digital files, like some corporations have been culling
schematics from their archives of
digitized old manuals.
Having freely available digital copies is great. Kudos to bitsavers.
But the paper originals have to be preserved in a distributed way too. For *many*
reasons.
I also have a question about a specific silverfish infested paper manual.
On 22 Sep 2018 you wrote, Re: Manual for Documation TM200 punched card reader
Stupid question, but doesn't IEEE CS already
have these archived?
of course they are
we are speaking with paper obsessed siverfish lovers here though
I'm pretty sure I just saw a paper copy of the
TM200 manual
which is different from the M200. I'll have to dig around to
try to find it again.
I guess you never found it? I've asked you about it a couple of times since and
you've
ignored my queries. If you do find it, after you've scanned it I'd like to buy it
if possible.
I can't find any other copy and I do need it to get the machine's electronics
going.
Also I'm another paper obsessed siverfish lover. Aka PDF-hating cynic who thinks
current
digital document file formats and display utilities are still far too primative to be
acceptable for convenient common use and as a reliable 'sole copy.'
They are still a last resort.
Guy
PS naphthalene. Hmm, I'd better stock up before it's banned here too.
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/health-and-wellness/mothballs-warning-soun…
6:30 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
I wish I would have known. I joined IEEE Annals at the beginning. I
eventually dropped my subscription because I found that the inaccuracies
would just make me mad.
I threw out a bunch of ACM SIGPLAN notices (the local library didn't
want them) from the 1978s. Still need to get rid of a pile of old CACM
rags as well as IEEE Computer. I'm staring at a pile of IEEE Micro and
a bunch of PC-related magazines from the 80s-90s (e.g. "DOS Developer's
Journal", which became "Windows/DOS Developer's Journal", which became
"Windows Developer's Journal", which was then thankfully put out of its
misery by merging into Doctor Dobbs').
I still have a bunch of "PC Tech Journal" and other various periodicals.
If anyone's looking for something special, let me know. They'll all be
gone to the recycler by the end of January.
--Chuck
30 Dec
30 Dec
11:31 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 6:35 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 12:05 PM 29/12/2018 -0800, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Eh, he's probably not.
I love paper and I love scanning, and I dedicate a lot of space and
time to both. I can't keep everything but I keep a lot more than one
man without a warehouse should.
I do know now, though, that when I get that big document warehouse
(climate-controlled, of course) that I fill with every manual on
Earth, with room for extra-planetary docs, should they survive the
shipping process, it will be called the "Silverfish Motel".
-j
On 12/29/18 12:00 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
Coming from you that's a worrying comment, unless you are joking. Stupid question, but doesn't IEEE CS already
have these archived?
of course they are
we are speaking with paper obsessed siverfish lovers here though
5:04 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On Dec 29, 2018, at 7:35 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 12:05 PM 29/12/2018 -0800, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
I wonder also. I once sent some manuals to Bitsavers, and they duly got scanned. (Thank,
Al, they came out well.) I didn't get them back. I don't think I asked for that,
in which case it's reasonable enough that Bitsavers didn't go to the extra expense
of returning them.
It might be helpful to state the policy (or choice, if any) explicitly so people know what
to expect.
paul
On 12/29/18 12:00 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
Coming from you that's a worrying comment, unless you are joking.
So Al, just curious, once bitsavers has scanned the manuals and stuff people send them,
what happens to those paper originals?
Does bit savers return them? Or make them available to others?
Can people sending manuals to bitsavers get a guarantee (if they ask for it) the
originals won't be destroyed? Stupid question, but doesn't IEEE CS already
have these archived?
of course they are
we are speaking with paper obsessed siverfish lovers here though
31 Dec
31 Dec
9:44 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 12/30/18 5:04 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
It might be helpful to state the policy (or choice, if
any) explicitly so people know what to expect.
I will return documents if requested.
Originals may or may not be donated to CHM for archiving, depending on
if they are duplicative or are of duplicative scope.
I do not archive any paper myself.
Currently, I am being asked to reduce my backlog inside of Shustek
and am making some hard choices.
1 Jan
1 Jan
1:16 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
At 09:44 AM 31/12/2018 -0800, you wrote:
On 12/30/18 5:04 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Hopefully those hard choices don't involve dumpstering anything?
Would they be less hard, if you mentioned here what your storage difficulties
involve, and asked if anyone could help with that? Pretty sure you'd find
willing helpers. Who love silverfish.
Don't be like ManualsPlus: "Oh my gosh we have 300,000 manuals and one week
before they have to go to the bin. Err, maybe we should ask for help now."
Reading between your lines above, I gather that once you've scanned manuals,
if CHM don't want them and the donor didn't ask for their return, they are
disposed of?
Respectfully, I suggest there are better alternatives. Such as offering them for
sale or giveaway. And that you could probably find volunteers to provide all
the required work and temporary storage.
Btw, the Documation TM200 punch card reader manual I'm seeking and you may have,
hasn't turned up at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/documation/
so presumably is still in your backlog. If you happen to see it, that's ONE
hard choice I can definitely solve for you. Being on the other side of the
globe means I unfortunately can't be much help with bulk material storage.
Much as I'd like to.
Guy
It might be helpful to state the policy (or
choice, if any) explicitly so people know what to expect.
I will return documents if requested.
Originals may or may not be donated to CHM for archiving, depending on
if they are duplicative or are of duplicative scope.
I do not archive any paper myself.
Currently, I am being asked to reduce my backlog inside of Shustek
and am making some hard choices.
7:05 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 1/1/19 1:16 AM, Guy Dunphy wrote:
Btw, the Documation TM200 punch card reader manual
I'm seeking and you may have,
hasn't turned up at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/documation/
so presumably is still in your backlog
I was mistaken. I only had M200 manuals and every one of those is now on line.
8:53 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 4:16 AM Guy Dunphy via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
At 09:44 AM 31/12/2018 -0800, you wrote:
I will return documents if requested.
Originals may or may not be donated to CHM for archiving, depending on
if they are duplicative or are of duplicative scope.
I do not archive any paper myself.
Currently, I am being asked to reduce my backlog inside of Shustek
and am making some hard choices.
Hopefully those hard choices don't involve dumpstering anything?
Would they be less hard, if you mentioned here what your storage
difficulties
involve, and asked if anyone could help with that? Pretty sure you'd find
willing helpers. Who love silverfish.
Don't be like ManualsPlus: "Oh my gosh we have 300,000 manuals and one week
before they have to go to the bin. Err, maybe we should ask for help now."
Reading between your lines above, I gather that once you've scanned
manuals,
if CHM don't want them and the donor didn't ask for their return, they are
disposed of?
Respectfully, I suggest there are better alternatives. Such as offering
them for
sale or giveaway. And that you could probably find volunteers to provide
all
the required work and temporary storage.
<snip
Guy
I have a lot of ACM SIGPLAN Notice, event proceedings and "Communications"
in my document library. Also some DECUS proceedings. Not too much from
the IEEE.
There is an older website registry of computer preservation hobbyists out
there, listed by interest and location but I don't it's actively managed.
It could be assumed to include document preservation for thise looking for
a home for their docs. This site has been around since 90's but has been
updated a few times since launch
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html
Someone should probably mirror this page or even take it over.
Another possibility ... On the bitsavers website it might be nice to add a
section where people can see what docs are available for pick up/rescue
opportunities.
Personally I limit my doc storage to what I can store in proper
conditions. No silverfish. I will even bathe moldy docs under florescent
light as needed, to help control mold. Too much light hurts the paper so
only what is needed to restabilize.
Personally I am looking for ComputerWorld newspapers from the 60's and
early 70's, People's Computer Company newspapers, and early SIG club
docs... should anyone be looking for a home for these.
Bill
On 12/30/18 5:04 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> It might be helpful to state the policy (or choice, if any) explicitly
so
people know what to expect.
2 Jan
2 Jan
11:47 a.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 1/1/19 8:53 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On the bitsavers website it might be nice to add a
section where people can see what docs are available for pick up/rescue
opportunities.
I've added a section on the purpose and methodology of bitsavers on the bottom of
the main bitsavers.org web page.
I also started a bitsavers twitter feed over the weekend.
http://twitter.com/bitsavers
1:01 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
I will certainly follow that one, my twitter is @billdeg btw.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:43 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 1/1/19 8:53 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On the bitsavers website it might be nice to add
a
section where people can see what docs are available for pick up/rescue
opportunities.
I've added a section on the purpose and methodology of bitsavers on the
bottom of
the main bitsavers.org web page.
I also started a bitsavers twitter feed over the weekend.
http://twitter.com/bitsavers
10:16 p.m.
New subject: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Al Kossow via
cctalk
Sent: 02 January 2019 19:47
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: wanted back issues IEEE ANNALS OF THE HISTORY OF
COMPUTING bound or unbound... dtop us a line off list please.
On 1/1/19 8:53 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
You might actually getting me looking at twitter on a regular basis...
Dave
On the bitsavers website it might be nice to add
a section where
people can see what docs are available for pick up/rescue
opportunities.
I've added a section on the purpose and methodology of bitsavers on the
bottom of the main bitsavers.org web page.
I also started a bitsavers twitter feed over the weekend.
http://twitter.com/bitsavers
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