- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by steven＠malikoff.com

Looks like the recent recovery in Germany had a precedent. These two happy guys have lugged their 360 out of the building BUT look at the extra they snagged with theirs, and in great condition too! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1965-TORINO-Prototipo-auto-GIULIA-SPORT-Special… ;)

7 years

2
1
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One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

I finally got around to reading that note. My principal reponse is that it got so far down into details that I couldn't see the larger picture any more. Going back to the original IBM 801 work, the RISC concept is very simple: to make the overall system as fast as possible; it did this by making the CPU cycle time as short as possible. This results in a CPU that is not as easy to work with; therefore the compiler has to be 'smarter'. In other words, engineering complexity is moved from the hardware to the software. This is an an acceptable tradeoff; the complexity in the software is not a recurring cost, whereas extra gates add cost to every machine produced. Moreover, while the more complex compiler may be more time-consuming to run, that cost is only paid once, whereas the efficiency of the binary is felt every time the program is run. Focusing on what features a CPU does or does not have in some ways misses the whole point of RISC: it's not about what specific features the CPU has, in isolation; it's about looking at the system as a whole, all the way up through the compilers, to maximize performance. I recall Tom Knight laying out the implication for CPU design very simply, in a seminar I took back when the idea had just come out: look at the CPU design, and find the longest signal path; this will set the lower limit on the clock time. Redesign to remove that path; since the capability that needed it will inevitably be used only part of the time, the execution increase caused by losing it will be outweighed by the speedup of all the other instructions. The other thing one needs to remember, talking about RISC, is that it's now been almost 40 years since the concept was devised (an eternity in the computing field), and the technology environment has changed drastically since then. So RISC has changed and adapted as that environment changed. Nowadays, when people throw a billion transistors at each CPU, the picture is somewhat different. Register widows were just the first instance of this sort of thing; we have this unused area of the chip, what can we put there? >> On 6/15/19 3:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: >> CISC design is now needed to handle the 'extended features'. ... RISC came >> along only because Compilers could only generate SIMPLE instructions, that >> matched the RISC format. No; compilers had been created that could use the more complex CISC instructions of, say, a VAX. RISC post-dated a lot of those developments, and had an entirely different point. > From: Chuck Guzis > For what it's worth, the number of instructions in the ISA does not define > RISC, but rather that the instructions execute quickly. Some RISC > implementations have large instruction sets. Right; what's reduced is the complexity of the instructions, which leads to the speedup which is the goal, not the number of them. In fact, a RISC CPU may actually have more instructions, e.g. separate ones for different cases, with the compiler being given the responsibility of picking the right one, instead of the CPU figuring it out as it goes. > RISC does carry a penalty in that you're executing more instructions to get > something done, so your code space is larger; but, you hopefully have them scheduled > such that the whole task runs faster. This in another aspect, which I've mentioned before, behind the rise of RISC, which is the changing size and speed of main memory, relative to the CPU. Simpler instructions are faster, but a given task will need more of them. This is acceptable if the memory can supply them fast enough. If the memory bandwidth is less, more complex instructions make sense, to get more out of the limited bandwidth. Also, if memory is of limited capacity, or expensive, then more complex instructions make sense, since more can be done with a fixed amount of memory. (The PDP-11 still scores very high in code density.) This too, however, has been overtaken by the march of technology. Still, the basic idea of RISC still applies; make the CPU clock rate as fast as possible by making the instructions simple, and let software deal with the resulting issues. Noel

7 years

2
1
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Old DEC stuff in Bedford MA

by sales＠elecplus.com

There is an elderly gent in Bedford, MA that was a DEC dealer back in the day. The following inventory is what he has posted on a service I belong to. He is very deaf, and he can't hear me over the phone. He is open 9-5 M-F. Someone needs to go and dig. I don't think he knows where everything is anymore, and I don't think he can reach high places or lift medium-heavy things. Not affiliated with seller, etc. Charlie Burgess 119A Great Road Bedford, MA 01730-2720 781-275-6800 qeiinc at verizon.net 0132727 03-211265-0 06-888E7620 06-98805420 06-98826020 06141 10-09397-01 10-13102-00 10028002 10028102 10058100 10104 101066 10183/10184 109831-00L 11-10364 11/23-AW 11/34A-HC 11/730 11/750-CA 11/84-AC 1110 11130-DC 11150-CH 11213 11214 11592-906-1 117838-A 12-04403-01 12-09403-01 12-10152-0 12-11196-02 12-11477 12-11519 12-11563 12-11580-01 12-11581-00 12-11583-00 12-11583-01 12-12157-00 12-12199-00 12-12904-00 12-13097-00 12-13185-00 12-13186-00 12-13369-00 12-13686-00 12-14333-JO 12-14360-00 12-14614-02 12-15050-00 12-15292-00 12-1529600A 12-15297-00 12-15336-00 12-15336-08 12-15336-11 12-15360-00 12-15394-00 12-15558-00 12-15633-00 12-15663-00 12-16166-00 12-16166-02 12-16308-00 12-16391 12-16552 12-16827-00 12-17431-00 12-17431-01 12-17474-00 12-17606 12-18320 12-18416-00 12-18633-00 12-19245 12-19245-00 12-19245-01 12-19266 12-20267-01 12-22196-01 12-22196-02 12-22271-01 12-22707-01 12-23196-01 12-23607-04 12-23609-04 12-23609-11 12-23609-15 12-23609-19 12-23609-21 12-24701-10 12-26339-01 12-27591-01 12-28258-01 12-28508-01 12-29258-01 12-29635-01 12-30552-01 12-32022-01 12-32728-01 12-33626-01 12-35173-01 12-35759-01 12-39921-02 12-45246-03 120119-01 123 1351922 13C27A-30 1412DA 16-12256-0 16-12398 16-12497-01 16-1389700B 16-14110-00 16-17186-01 16-19001-01 1616-010 1632TTL 1664ATTL 17-000-82-0 17-00004-00 17-00079-00 17-0008202D 17-00083-06 17-00083-10 17-00083-37 17-00083-49 17-00087-00 17-00100-00 17-00107-01 17-00193-00 17-00198-15 17-00233 17-00254-00 17-00254-01 17-00277-04 17-00280-00 17-00282-00 17-00282-01 17-00282-03 17-00284-00 17-00285-00 17-00285-02 17-00286 Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years

1
0
0 0

Software for Fairy YL-23 IC tester wanted

by roelof_klaas＠yahoo.com

Hello fellow collectors, I have this Fairy YL-23 IC tester / programmer with ISA bus. http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/Fairy_YL-23_Eprom_Programmer_resources_page.… The problem: I have no documentation and no software for it. Can anyone help me getting PC software for it? Thanks in advance!Regards, Roland Huisman

7 years

2
1
0 0

List search option?

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

Is there a list search option on the archives? As in if I wanted to find a relevant thread for part number ABC123 I could search that somewhere?

7 years

4
5
0 0

Data General Eclipse S140 for sale in Fremont

by sellam.ismail＠gmail.com

Hello Folks. I'm just passing along this ad I came across whilst perusing Craigslist: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/clt/d/fremont-s140-data-general-eclipse/69… Asking price is $1,500. I have no relation whatsoever to the sale or the seller, just passing along. Sellam

7 years

2
1
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PDP-11/23 for sale in Portland OR

by scott.l.baker＠gmail.com

The system consists of: 1) a 19" rack-mountable CPU chassis 2) a 19" rack-mountable floppy-disk drive (and bootable RT-11 floppy-disks) 3) Zenith Z-29-A RS232 terminal The boards included are: M8186 KDF11-A 11/23 CPU ????? 256KB parity RAM ????? DSD-440 floppy disk interface ????? bus grant continuity card M8028 DLV11-F Async interface M8012 BDV11 Bus terminator, bootstrap and diagnostic ROMs M8016 KPV11 Power fail, realtime clock, (termination) Also included are several 8" floppy disks with RT/11 and other system software. If interested, send me a message. Thanks, Scott

7 years

1
0
0 0

Value of Burroughs B9974 disk pack

by aperry＠snowmoose.com

When I worked for Burroughs/Unisys, I was one of the last people working on software for B1000. I think I was the sole user of the B1965 at their Lake Forest (Orange County) California office in '88-89. I was surrounded in my cubicle by all of the disk packs for that system. My favorite systems while at Burroughs was the B1000s. One of those type of disk packs is up on eBay right now and I am trying to decide whether to buy it. It is $60 plus another $40 for shipping. Is that too much? I almost never see Burroughs stuff, so, if I want Burroughs stuff, I should just get it, right? alan

7 years

4
10
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Value of Burroughs B9974 disk pack

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Alan Perry > a chance to see and touch something that I haven't seen in decades > that was once a big part of my life. I know exactly what you mean. PDP-11's were a huge part of my professional life: -11/20: the first computer I actually used, in high school -11/45: the computer on which I took my first programming course in the CS Dept (amazingly, my group later traded the next computer for that very computer, years later) -11/40: the first computer that was 'mine', in the sense that I controlled it -11/70: the computer I did a lot of my early Unix learning/work on -11/03: my first packet switch code ran on one of these -11/23: the most widespread machine that my early packet switches ran on -11/73: the timesharing machine at the company that productized my packet switch code I'm very fortunate to now have a lot of PDP-11's in my collection. (Including an /04 and a /34, machines I never used BITD.) I had no contact with PDP-11's for many years, but only a few years ago someone here gave me an -11/84 (if I drove to Wisconsin to get it :-); I stopped off at my in-law's house to overnight on the way back with it, and they later told my wife it was the happiest they'd ever seen me! Noel

7 years

1
0
0 0

Modems and external dialers.

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Liam Proven > Now, my tablet and iPhone and Android phones need *at least* 3 or 4 > apps updating every day. ... The OS needs to be replaced every month > or two to fix all the flaws in it, and that's a gigabyte or so of > storage. > I am *furious* about this. > ... > I had a better *phone* and a better *PDA* 20 years ago. Great rant. I myself much prefer my Windows98 machines to my Windows 10 laptop, which I had to buy because i) many Web sites won't work without the latest and greatest browser (in many cases because of the nitwitted craze for not just HTTPS, but the latest and greatest security option for it - but let me not get derailed into that rant into lemming-like stupidity), and those are only available for the latest and greated bloatware OS. Noel

7 years

2
1
0 0

IBM VM/CMS documentation

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

I am looking for documentation of the NUCEXT CMS macro/function in IBM's VM/SP, VM/HPO, VM/XA or VM/ESA from the mid 1980s to the mid 1990s. SC19-6209-0 "VM/SP CMS Command and Macro Reference" from September 1980 available on bitsavers.org does not contain any reference to NUCEXT, apparantly because it had not been developed at that time. The next version of this manual that I can find on bitsavers is SC19-6209-4 "VM/SP CMS Command Reference Release 5" from December 1986, however by that time, the macros section had been moved into a different manual ("VM/SP CMS Macro Reference" I think, which I have not been able to locate anywhere). Other manuals also reference "VM/SP Data Areas and Control Block Logic, Volume 2" which I have not been able to find any versions of either. I am aware of z/VM manuals available on the IBM website which contain some information about NUCEXT but I would prefer to use the older manuals if at all possible as internals tend to be documented in far more detail in the older manuals and the newer manuals contain a lot of unwanted complexity due to the need to document newer features that I don't have any interest in, plus the replacement and obsolesence of features I am interested in. Does anyone have a CMS command and Macro Reference, CMS Macro Reference or Data Areas and Control Block Logic, Volume 2 manual from the mid to 1980s to the mid 1990s who would be willing to scan information about NUCEXT for me? Regards, Peter Coghlan.

7 years

2
3
0 0

looking for info on SIMMS

by useddec＠gmail.com

I'm sorting out a bunch of SIMMS and would like to identify the type of system they are from and the size. Does anyone know of any published lists that could help me ID them? So far I have found: MS02 MS02-AA 54-19813-AX Clearpoint D52/8MB Clearpoint 32MB Kingston KTV-5000/32 Kingston KTV GX/32 8Mx72 Micro Tech MB 360436M-7 Micro Tech MT18CD472F6-6X 20-47083D7 MT8D132G-6 54-24829-DA 54-20352-01 54-21139-CL 54-21225 54-20410-01 54-20116 Thanks, Paul

7 years

4
3
0 0

M7264 Troubleshooting

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Allison >> "The console emulator Octal Debugging Technique (ODT)is a portion of >> the processor microcode ... The console ODT implemented on the LSI-11/23, >> PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/23-PLUS is identical." > However LSI-11/23 whatever that is, typo? No, that's exactly what's in the manual I cited; as you say, though: > That always had me during my yeas at DEC going which one are you > talking about, as every thing had at least three names (never > minding numbers) and one was usually ambiguous or a nonspecific > family name. DEC's naming of systems always drove me wild. To me, the worst one is the lack of a name for a system including a KDJ11-A; as someone here pointed out, the name "-11/73" is properly only applied to systems with a KDJ11-B and no PMI memory. As I understand it, DEC apparently didn't sell KDJ11-A's in complete, new, systems (it was just an upgrade board), so no number was ever allocated. Noel

7 years

1
0
0 0

cctalk Digest, Vol 57, Issue 12

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, maybe there's a short between RXD and TXD, or possibly the GND is unconnected... This could cause an echo on the cable, and while the console is echoing too, this give an infinite repetition, only ended by the limited console buffer size... Andrea

7 years

2
1
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M7264 Troubleshooting

by vintagecomputersmn＠gmail.com

I have been working on it for the past week, and I would say the I have my system 95% functional as of now. On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 9:05 AM Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote: > > unlike my M8017, it will actually respond to my inputs on my > > terminal. I'm pretty sure I may just have the card configured > > incorrectly, but I'm not going to worry about that for now. > > If the M8017 is actually broken, I would be more than happy to trade a > working, tested DLV11-J (useful for TU58 emulation :-) for it, as I'd > like to have a DLV11-E for my collection. > Taking a closer look at it, it appears that I did not have my connector built correctly. It seems to work now. I got the tu58em software running on my laptop, interfected to my system via the DLV11-J I have. I was able to load XXDP and RT-11 more or less without a hitch. Typing in the bootstrap code is a real pain to do every time I want to boot the system, so I really need to get that MXV11-A working. While RT-11 boots, I am seeing some oddities that don't show up under a normal 11/03 emulated under SIMH. - Upon startup, the DIR command will refuse to list the directory, and just return a "?MON-F-Trap to 4 020142" error. This issue can be corrected by running V2.1 BASIC or another application, which then after the DIR command will work normally. - Also upon startup, sometimes normal RT-11 commands such as DATE and D will return ?KMON-F-File not found DK:*.SAV. This has like a 50% chance of happening. - Saving a file under K52 where the file length has been shortened will also return a ?MON-F-Trap error, and refuse to save the file correctly. This only happens sometimes. I am betting (or hoping) that this is just an issue with the TU58 emulator I am using, and not something wrong with the CPU. I have parts on the way for a RX02 emulator, so hopefully that will fix some of the issues I have having (and make it faster too). On top of that, the RUN/HALT and LTC lights on the front panel still do not function, even thought the switches clearly work and the computer responds accordingly. I am betting this is an issue with on the board somewhere, but as it does not impede functionality I am fine with it for now. One last question, besides TU58 and RX02, are there any other good storage options for a Q/Q 16 bit backplane PDP-11. I know there are SCSI hard drive boards for the 18 and 22 bit backplanes, but it would be nice if there was one that could work with my 16 bit H11A. Well, this project has been a lot of fun. Thank you for all the help you guys have gave me. Gavin.

7 years

1
0
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In search of an ancient IEEE-754 floating point test suite

by web＠loomcom.com

One of the projects I've been working on recently is adding floating point accelerator emulation to the SIMH 3B2/400 emulator. I _think_ I've done reasonably well, in that the simulator passes all of the accelerator diagnostics that AT&T wrote for their own product, but frankly these tests are rather cursory and don't validate much. I'd like to compile a set of IEEE-754 tests on the 3B2. Unfortunately, the only compiler I have ready access to on the 3B2 is AT&T's pre-ANSI C compiler, so not a lot of modern C is going to work. Does anyone know of a period-appropriate set of IEEE-754 tests that could be compiled on SVR3? -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA web at loomcom.com

7 years

6
8
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TurboDOS for S-100, IMS or L/F Technologies

by new_castle_j＠yahoo.com

Sure, I will list out the hardware I'm planning on using. IMS A645 Z-80 Processor IMS A631 serial/parallel I/O IMS A930 Floppy controller IMS A465 64K RAM IMS 1100 Winchester Hard disk controller IMS 862 User Processor (Z80) IMS 1081 User Processor (186) IMS 1120 Tape Controller Earth Computers ARCnet board -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/11/19, Bill Degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: TurboDOS for S-100, IMS or L/F Technologies To: "Jonathan Haddox" <new_castle_j at yahoo.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2019, 6:47 PM On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 12:55 PM Jonathan Haddox via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I'm restoring an IMS - L/F Technologies S-100 Bus computer.? I've got all the pieces except for the Operating System.? I'm hoping that someone here may have a disk stashed away.? From the literature I have read, I would need TurboDOS version 1.40a or 1.41c from IMS or L/F Technologies.? I've seen TurboDOS 1.3 versions out in the wild from IMS, but the 1.4 version was greatly enhanced and offered better compatibility with my specific hardware.? I'd be much obliged if anyone can help. Thanks, Jonathan new_castle_j? at yahoo Can you detail the associated hardware (drive controller, drive model, CPU, etc.)

7 years

2
1
0 0

Need a part for Sun 2/120.

by earl.baugh＠gmail.com

I?m in the process of restoring a Sun 2/120 and realized that the unit I have doesn?t have the back plate and cables for monitor and keyboard/mouse. I have spare parts to trade for 2/120 ( including a sun 2/120 keyboard cable I found today. ) or can do $$ Earl Sent from my iPhone

7 years

2
1
0 0

TurboDOS for S-100, IMS or L/F Technologies

by marvin＠west.net

If I read the archive properly, there is a copy of TurboDos 1.4x in Don Maslins archives on Bitsaver. The files included are: Name Format Description 143GEN ZIP TD 1.43 DO/GEN/PAR files for ADC 143KERN ZIP TD 1.43 Kernel files 143REL ZIP TD 1.43 REL files for ADC 143MAC ZIP TD 1.43 MAC files for ADC 143DOC ZIP TD 1.43 FILES - incl ADC Hope this helps! Marvin > I'm restoring an IMS - L/F Technologies S-100 Bus computer. I've got all the pieces except for the Operating System. I'm hoping that someone here may have a disk stashed away. From the literature I have read, I would need TurboDOS version 1.40a or 1.41c from IMS or L/F Technologies. I've seen TurboDOS 1.3 versions out in the wild from IMS, but the 1.4 version was greatly enhanced and offered better compatibility with my specific hardware. I'd be much obliged if anyone can help. > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > new_castle_j at yahoo

7 years

1
0
0 0

Computer Reset in Dallas has re-opened... temporarily

by lproven＠gmail.com

AIUI the owner is now in a nursing home. Thanks to Justin Scott and a group of enthusiasts, rather than sending all the stock to the scrappers, the store is occasionally re-opening in an effort to sell as much as possible to collectors. It's here: https://www.computerresetdallas.com/contactus.htm Address: 9525 Skillman St, Dallas, TX 75243 There's a FB group here -- an event will be posted whenever it's open: https://www.facebook.com/groups/627459117730981/ (Last Saturday, next Saturday, for example.) This is the GoFundMe for the owner: https://www.gofundme.com/7uagmw-elderly-couple-in-need-of-help There was a walkthrough on Youtube but it's gone. :-( There's something for everyone. PDP, Vax, all manner of PCs including PCJr, IBM portables, PS/2s, some complete and boxed, Amigas, NeXT, TRS-80, terminals, all sorts. The owner and his wife are now in sheltered accommodation and won't be able to return. This is a last-ditch volunteer effort to stop all the vast warehouse's contents being recycled and to make some money for them to support them in their last years. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

7 years

1
0
0 0

VAX ODT console fault

by bear＠typewritten.org

Folks; I have a BA23 VAX of unknown provenance, which tonight I moved from the project backlog to the workbench. It comes up and passes selftest. But any key I press on the console terminal is repeated a couple dozen times (to the limit of the input line length?). This makes it impossible to interact with ODT. Is this a normal sort of well-understood failure mode? In this session excerpt, the only thing I am sending is <BREAK> (giving me the normal chevron prompt), <ENTER> (giving me the repeated chevrons, sometimes with other characters in the pattern), ?, and h. I did not type any colons at the [XQA0] prompt, though I did try to backspace them. The behavior is the same if I remove all boards besides the KA655-B and 16 MB memory board. KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. Loading system software. No default boot device has been specified. Available devices. -DUA0 (RA81) -DUA1 (RA81) -XQA0 (08-00-2B-19-A2-D7) -XQB0 (08-00-2B-0D-83-C0) Device? [XQA0]: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : \ \\ ?26 VAL TOO LRG Device? [XQA0]: (BOOT/R5:0 XQA0) 2.. -XQA0 ?4B CTRLERR, XQA0 ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000C1A Failure. >>>A0 ?22 ILL CMD >>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>>>A>>^C >>>???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?22 ILL CMD >>> >>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>> ?22 ILL CMD >>> >>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>> ?22 ILL CMD >>> >>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>^C >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?22 ILL CMD >>> >>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>^C >>>hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?22 ILL CMD >>> >>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>?2>>>\>\\^C >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?22 ILL CMD >>> ok bear. -- until further notice

7 years

3
3
0 0

What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Liam Proven > This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be > 441 ICs. I wondered if it was fair to list the DEC 23B00A2, etc that hold the ucode as separate parts; they might have been a bunch of 256x4 PROMs, and the separate part numbers were just for the different programming. (Whether differently programmed PROMs count as 'different' parts for the purposes of this table I leave aside.) Looking at my M7232 card, though, I think they may be masked ROMs; the only part number on them looks like a manufacturer applied one with the DEC number. Interestingly, about a third are MMI parts, and the rest are NS. I wonder if neither manufacturer had enough capacity alone, or if DEC just wanted multiple sourcing. (The parts appear to be basically the same, in terms of speed, format, etc so it appears either could have provided any of them, modulo the programme.) Noel

7 years

1
0
0 0

wanted - HP 1000 series boards - 12103L and 12016A

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

Hi, I'm looking for some older HP 1000 A class parts and wanted to see if anyone had them... below is what I need... If you have them, let me know. 12103L? 4MB Memory Board 12103-66002 4MB Memory Board 12103-69102 4MB Memory Board 12016A? SCSI Interface Board 12016-69102 SCSI Interface Board Thanks Jesse Cypress Tech jesse at cypress-tech.com

7 years

1
0
0 0

What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?

by lproven＠gmail.com

Found on Hackernews but by our very own Seth Morabito... ? This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be 441 ICs. Impressive! ? https://loomcom.com/blog/0044_what_makes_a_pdp_11_35_tick.html -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

7 years

8
13
0 0

HP9816 PAL16L8

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made > a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the > same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was > done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots > on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back I thought I was the only one! Back when I first used a PAL, I also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers how to get that programmed into the device. It was pretty annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first. It seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was just going to turn around and turn the equations back into the matrix wiring I had just marked up. BLS

7 years

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HP9816 PAL16L8

by pieroandreini＠vodafone.it

Many thanks to all those who are helping me!Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.

7 years

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HP9816 PAL16L8

by pieroandreini＠gmail.com

desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991

7 years

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Modems and external dialers.

by cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net

Does anyone have any experience working with modems that didn't include internal / auto dialers? They came up in a conversation in a newsgroup and I realized that I know of them, but know virtually nothing about them. I think they were separate devices, which probably means that they likely had separate serial ports to talk to each of them. Did they support some sort of pass through? Or did they really require two serial ports on the host? -- Grant. . . . unix || die

7 years

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Kids these days...

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

Get a load of this: http://www.gopherprotocol.com I pointed them to RFC 1436 in case they haven't been paying attention. I eagerly await their next protocols, IPX and TCP/IP! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

7 years

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Old soaftware and documentation

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Cindy Croxton > I have a large qty to donate Roughly what does it go to - old PC's; Windows boxes; etc? Noel

7 years

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Old soaftware and documentation

by sales＠elecplus.com

I have a large qty to donate to a vintage computer group. I do not want to ship. Someone in Austin or San Antonio area want to come and get it? I would like it gone before this Saturday. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years

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HP9816 PAL16L8 (alan@alanlee.org)

by pieroandreini＠vodafone.it

> L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) > should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all > the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same > (vs reading the fuse data). > > -Alan > > Good luck. unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the jedec file

7 years

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SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAME

by aek＠bitsavers.org

pretty cool.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6E0_qgfGGQ

7 years

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VCF Midwest: Hotel Reservations Open

by silent700＠gmail.com

After long delay, we can finally share the location of this year's show! Room registration is open and awaiting your reservation. We've got a new venue this year and that means a new table layout, which we're hard at work on and will be posted Real Soon Now. Then we can start signing up exhibits and vendors. Look for another announcement email when we're ready to begin. Here are the vital accommodation infos: WHERE: Waterford Banquets/Clarion Inn, 933 S. Riverside Drive, Elmhurst, IL WHEN: September 14-15, 2019 HOW MUCH: We have a group rate of $109/night for single or double-bed rooms RESERVATIONS: We have a direct link for our group code. Note that the dates default to the entire block (Wed-Mon) and you will have to adjust them to your needs. LINK: https://www.choicehotels.com/reservations/groups/gw24z4 OTHER STUFF: Please make use of our group code if you're staying with us. Every room (and room-night) counts toward reducing our venue costs and increases the chances of being invited back next year! If you book with AAA or another group plan, please let the hotel know that you are attending VCF Midwest and they will credit your stay to our block. RESERVATIONS MUST BE MADE BY AUGUST 24, 2019! NO GROUP RATE WILL BE HONORED AFTER THAT DATE! Note: If the online form is not working or not giving you the group rate, please call the hotel directly at 630-279-0700 before contacting us! Oh yes, we figured new location = new era = new website. Besides, some found the old site a bit unfriendly and primitive, what with all that green monospace nonsense, like it's some kind of old computer or something. This new "interactive[1]" look is sure to impress. Surely. nothing says "user-friendly" like... http://vcfmw.org Thanks to all and we'll see you in September, -j [1] In that it's "not batch".

7 years

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HP98035 Real Time clock and AC5954N clock chip

by curiousmarc3＠gmail.com

All HP fans in general and Tony in particular, I have the exact same problem. HP98035 real time clock module (http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=168), plugged into a HP9825T (http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=171), accepts commands, reads back all 8's. Battery is new, is charging and at the correct voltage. Documentation says "never run the module without the battery or it would damage the AC5954N clock chip". When I got the module it had not battery in it, so this is what could have happened. Tony, did you eventually repair your module or find some data on the clock chip? Marc List: classiccmp <https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp&r=1&w=2> Subject: AC5954N clock chip (I think) From: ard () p850ug1 ! demon ! co ! uk (Tony Duell) <https://marc.info/?a=104957097300008&r=1&w=2> Date: 2001-08-26 22:55:32 <https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp&r=1&w=2&b=200108> [Download RAW message <https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp&m=104961357310567&q=mbox> or body <https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp&m=104961357310567&q=raw> ] I've got a non-working HP98035 real time clock module (for HP9825, etc) on the bench. It accepts commands, it sends something back, so I think the bus interface and microcontroller are all fine. The problems are : The real time reads back as 88:88:88:88:88 There is no activity on the crystal connected to the AC5954N clock chip (or at least I think it's a clock chip). Enabling the oscillator testpoint doesn't do a darn thing (well, the control/setting latch U7 changes state so again the microcontroller is doing something). There is no activity on any of the pins on the chip. It is getting power (it's not a problem with the NiCd battery). I suspect the chip. Has anyone come across it? It may be a common digital clock/calendar chip, or at least related to one (if it is HP-custom). It doesn't seem to be particularly designed for a microprocessor bus -- the output may be for direct driving 7-segment displays or maybe a multiplexed BCD output to link to a display decoder/driver. Thanks in advance for any help. -tony

7 years

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Alfaskop terminals and SPL programming language.

by mattislind＠gmail.com

I have been scanning a few manuals and brochures related to the Alfaskop series of IBM 3270 compatible and Uniscope 100 compatible terminals. http://www.datormuseum.se/peripherals/terminals/alfaskop Unfortunately very little seems to be saved regarding this series of quite successful terminals. In total around 900.000 units were produced. Starting with the dumb 3100 with delay line memory, to the 3500/ 3700 with a TTL CPU and the the 4100 series with 6800 CPU and finally the 91xx series with 68k CPU (I believe). There is a brief history on the wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfaskop) One interesting thing with the 41xx series is that it has a general purpose real time operating system described in this manual http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Alfaskop/Alfaskop_Syst… This manual refers to a SPL programming Language, and a SPL reference manual, which I am lacking. The SPL language seems to have realtime constructs like WAIT, DECLARE TASK, POST etc. Is there anyone that recognize the language or is it an invention made by Datasaab back in the days? Another interesting feature is that the 41xx series made use of a star coupled 300 kbit/s sort of network. Mainly to communicate with the likewise networked floppy drive or communication controller. The terminal could be configured to work stand alone with a floppy drive or using a communication controller as it seems. Depending on what it was configured for, the terminal could either run various terminal emulations, the Alfaword wordprocessing package or even the UCSD p-system. It would really be very interesting to find any of this software. So if anyone knows anything I am interested.

7 years

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M7264 Troubleshooting

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Allison > ODT for the two systems are very different. .. KDF-11 the ODT is part > of the higher level code. The larger cards (11/23 and 23+) boot to > resident (ep)rom. Ah, no. (Well, the KDF11 CPU's can boot to EPROM, which in the -11/23+ can be on the CPU card; the -11/23 is a dual card and has no functionality on the CPU card except the CPU.) The ODT in the KDF11's (and KDJ11's) is, just like in the LSI-11's, microcode, not macro-code. From the 1982 'microcomputers and memories' handbook, pg. 161 (in Chapter 7, "Octal Debugging Technique (Microcode ODT)"): "The console emulator Octal Debugging Technique (ODT)is a portion of the processor microcode ... The console ODT implemented on the LSI-11/23, PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/23-PLUS is identical." and on pg. 154: "Unlike the LSI-11 and LSI-11/2, the LSI-11/23 does not enter console ODT upon occurrence of a double bus error" >From which I think is quite clear that the KDF11's have microcode ODT. Noel

7 years

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M7264 Troubleshooting

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

A follow-up to close out something: > OK, now a picture of the bus with no console card: > http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/jpg/BSYN-BDAL_NoMem.jpg [Note: image re-named, to correctly say what it's showing] > It's a bit hard to interpret what's going on here .. The long assertion > of BSYNC is undoubtly the CPU trying to get the console CSR to respond, > and eventually timing out. Not sure what the short assertion following > it is - without looking at the ucode for the ODT, there's no way to know > what the CPU's doing. > Even harder to understand is what the BDAL line is doing. It looks like > it's un-asserted (0, i.e. +3V) on the falling (electrically - rising, > logically) edge of BSYN (which would be incorrect - see above). And then > it hops around while BSYNC is asserted, which makes no sense at all to > me. So this makes a little more sense now. This is actually showing a NXM cycle to main memory (apparently to address 0), hence the '0' on BDAL10. (The second assertion of BSYNC must be somehow associated with the NXM.) Apparently it doesn't even try to talk to the console card unless the memory is there OK; if it can't see the memory, it must just reset and try again. Here: > http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/jpg/BSYN-BDAL_NoCon.jpg is a system with memory, but without a console. A very similar picture, but here BDAL10 _is_ '1', as expected. So the original picture did in fact indicate what the problem was - had I known enough to know how to interpret it! Schaeffer's Law strikes again! Although I still don't understand why the LSI-11 wants to see main memory on the bus, in order for ODT to run. ODT doesn't use memory at all; ODT on the KDF11 CPUs will run without any memory. Noel

7 years

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HP9816 PAL16L8

by pieroandreini＠gmail.com

desperately looking for jedec file of PAL16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991 for my HP9816

7 years

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M7264 Troubleshooting

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mister PDP > Wow, I wasn't aware that the ODT console needed memory to run. It was news to me too! (And apparently to most others here too?) I was going to look at those confusing bus cycles, using an only slightly mis-addressed console, and wanted to first check that that console worked when properly configured; so I plugged in it and an LSI-11/2 CPU - nothing. Switched to a different CPU (maybe the first one died), _still_ nothing? So I tried an -11/23, ODT worked! So, the console worked; the chances of two CPUs that were working a week ago suddenly both dying seemed slim... what else could it be? And the /23 works with no memory! Odd. Will definitely have to make a note of that LSI-11 behaviour on the CHWiki. > I plugged in my 32kw module with my M8017-AA, and it fired right up to > ODT without a hassle. Yee-hah!!! EXCELLENT!!! Well, it took a while, but we finally got there! Do let us know how it goes with your next steps - and if you have an issue, let us know! (Hopefully, next time, we won'tbe so clueless! :-) Noel PS: Might be useful to check that the DLV11-J works; having a stock of known-good boards you can swap in is such a tool for QBUS debugging.

7 years

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Old CoCos and similar things

by sales＠elecplus.com

I have a few of these that need to be tested. I am certain they have not been plugged in for many years. Is the anything special I need to do before I just plug them in and turn them on? Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years

2
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M7264 Troubleshooting

by vintagecomputersmn＠gmail.com

Wow, I wasn't aware that the ODT console needed memory to run. Checking on my board, it looks like the 4kw was disabled. I plugged in my 32kw module with my M8017-AA, and it fired right up to ODT without a hassle. Seems that was the issue all along. On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 3:08 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote: > Hi, sorry I'm slow to do those tests; got distracted by the power > card stuff. > > So I've just dicovered that in a system with _only_ an LSI-11/2, > and a console, ODT doesn't start. I had to plug a memory card in > as well for ODT to work. (Confused the dickens out of me!) > > Is the RAM on your CPU card configured off? > > Noel >

7 years

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tape seals?

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, I think someone was looking for tape seals for 9 track tapes, a few weeks ago. If they can contact me offline, I have about 20 of varying sizes for shipping cost or local pickup. Stan sieler at allegro.com

7 years

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PDP-11/10 PSU Repair/Warning

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Systems_Glitch > I believe the big difference was in the current-supplying capability on > the +15V rail -- 1A vs. 4A. Ah, thanks for the tip. I have an H742, so I was exable to examine it, and the 5409730 (difference details on that below). The transformer may also be different (see below). The other differences seem to be mechanical; a larger cooling fan on the 7420, and the sheet-metal enclosure that holds the the power control board, transformer and fan is in two parts, bolted together. Interestingly, in light of your issue, the H7420's all have a fuse in the AC supply line to the 5411086; it's mounted on the enclosure. Nothing in the H742, though. > I believe it was mentioned as an upgrade thing in one of the technical > manuals I'd read some time ago. If you happen to recall where that was, I'd be very interested to see it. Upgrading from an H742 to an H7420 appears to be relatively simple; the pinout on the Mate-N-Lok which carries the outputs from the power board (DEC's name for it changes) is the same in both versions. (Have yet to look at the two Mate-N-Lok's on either side of it; I guess those carry the ~30V AC to the bricks.) Upgrading an H742 _to_ an H7420 appears to be more problematic. To start with, the power board is mounted vertically (on the inside face of the enclosure) in the H7420, but horizontally (above the transformer) in the H742. Maybe they changed the transformer too? Will have to check. It's also possible that was caused by the switch to the larger fan. Anyway, the 5411086 might not fit in the horizontal; plus the interface is different (see below). > It would be easy to make up a new harness to swap one in place of the > other, since the 5411086 goes to a Mate-n-Lok that plugs into the power > distribution board. Yes and no! The 5409730 and the 5411086 are significantly different, mechanically. The former doesn't have the edge connector (the one that burned out on you), rather it has a short 12-wire pigtail to a female Mate-N-Lok which plugs into a hole in the enclosure. That's for the _outputs_ - the AC input is in a separate 4-pin Mate-n-Lok (physically exactly like the one on older disk drives on PC's) which is mounted onto the board. (4 pins since there are two differnet AC inputs - one pair is filtered through what seem to be hefty coils in the input wiring.) The harness used in the BA11-K is also significantly different from the one in the H7420; the former has a male Mate-n-Lok, the latter is a female. The pinout appears to be a subset on the BA11-K, only 9 of the 12 pins are wired; assuming standard colour coding, the +8V DC is missing, as is the second ACLO and DCLO. Although, as you say, one could make a new harness. Speaking of which, do you know of a source for the connector that goes onto the edge connector? (Some of my BA11-K's are missing the harness.) I'm slowly adding all this info to the CHWiki. Noel

7 years

1
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MacPlus Boot Disk Needed

by brain＠jbrain.com

A friend at work picked up a nice MacPlus but no boot disk.? I have no Mac compatible drive options here, so I am hoping someone might be able to help.? I believe it can run OS6.0.8 on 800K floppies, but others might know more.? Happy to pay for disk, work, and shipping.? Was going to buy from BMOW, but they are out of stock. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

7 years

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PDP-11/10 PSU Repair/Warning

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Anderson >> (I also should check to see if the H742 uses the same 15V board; it >> uses the same 'bricks', so it may.) > Didn't the H7420 , which replaced the H742, use that also? The H742 uses > a different one . Oooh, good catch! The H742 uses a 5409730, but the H7420 does use the 5411086, the same as in the H765. I always wondered what the difference was between the H742 and H7420. I wonder if the two boards (and thus the the power harness) have an identical pinout, or not. Noel

7 years

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WTB: V53C104HP45 DRAM

by cctalk＠ibm51xx.net

Long shot but any one have any V53C104HP45 they care to part with? TIA-Ali

7 years

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PDP-11/10 PSU Repair/Warning

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Systems Glitch > I finally fixed the power supply in my PDP-11/10S ... For those who > have original 5411086s that haven't failed yet, you might want to > make up a little pigtail with an inline fuse holder. Congratulations, and a great blog write-up. The issue you point out (lack of fusing for some components on the +15V board) will of course apply to not just -11/10S's, but any -11 which uses the H765, either for the CPU box (e.g. /04, /34) or for an expansion box. This is important enough that I think I'll add a writeup to the CHWiki article for that: http://gunkies.org/wiki/H765_Power_System which restates the problem, and the proposed solution. (I also should check to see if the H742 uses the same 15V board; it uses the same 'bricks', so it may.) Noel

7 years

2
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Catatonic Rockwell AIM-65

by mark＠matlockfamily.com

Rick, I have a Rockwell AIM-65 and back in the day did a lot of laboratory data acquisition and other things with them. I interfaced one to an atomic absorption graphite furnace to collect the readings and compute the parts per billion of various trace minerals in samples to translate 6 bit ticker tape code at 66.67 baud to 9600 baud ascii for a PDP-11/44. I did development on the AIM-65 and then transferred the code on EPROMs to Rockwell RM6500 single board cards usually. At home I made a ballistic chronometer with some aluminum foil and a resistor and my trusty AIM-65. The most interesting project was an instrument I designed to measure how stable a vegetable oil was to oxidation. The AIM-65 would test 16 samples using a wire wrapped relay board to sequence through the signals, an Intersil 7109 12 bit A/D chip, a conductivity circuit, 32 Kbytes of RAM to hold data for plotting and a small 4 inch wide Radio Shack Pen Plotter. We built about five of them to use within our company, but had requests from customers for the instruments. Eventually, we out licensed the patents to an external company and I rewrote the software to run on a IBM PC. Later I rewrote the software in LabVIEW and it still runs in many labs where vegetable oils are refined or used. The analytical method for it is called the ?Oil Stability Index? and I wrote the official method (AOCS Cd12b-92) that defines it. If you search for ?Oil Stability Index? you?ll find it is widely used in the field. It is also sometimes called the Rancimat method after another automated instrument introduced later that works in the same way. When I do get my AIM-65 out to play, it often is catatonic at first. I?ve found that (at least for mine) it is related to the inexpensive IC sockets Rockwell used in it. Usually some Deoxit or tuner cleaner on the sockets and reseating some ROM chips is all that is needed to get it going. That said you certainly could have more complicated issues as well. Best, Mark

7 years

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PDP-11/10 PSU Repair/Warning

by systems.glitch＠gmail.com

full writeup here: http://www.glitchwrks.com/2019/06/05/pdp1110-psu-repair I finally fixed the power supply in my PDP-11/10S, it turned out to be a shorted bridge rectifier on the 5411086 board, which provides +15 VDC, LTC, and AC LO/DC LO. Unfortunately, when it failed, the rectifier burned up the edge connector traces for the AC input to the board. I ended up cutting the edge connector traces away (what was left) and soldering on a pigtail to connect to the Mate-n-Lok coming from the AC transformer. I added a 15A inline fuse, in the repair. For those who have original 5411086s that haven't failed yet, you might want to make up a little pigtail with an inline fuse holder. It'd be easy to make up such that it could plug into the existing harness without permanent modification, and it'll save your edge connector traces if the rectifier shorts. It can happen in the other regulator modules too, but they use a Mate-n-Lok instead of an edge connector, so any damage would be repairable. Anyway, the PDP-11/10S is back up and running! Thanks, Jonathan

7 years

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