- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Mac Classic near death... or at least an OOBE...

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

So, there's a Mac Classic that was dropped off at my friends' store (otherwise headed for the skip/dumpster) and I "rescued" it. Yes, I used quotes, as there was this "weird" bright yellow and purple goo emanating >from the unit. Thinking something completely odd was spilled *into* the unit, I took it apart to find the damage. Turns out, the PRAM battery was in such bad shape that it was the source of both the purple (rust & other dissolved metals) and yellow (still not sure what that is) goo. I had to pry the motherboard out of the unit (slightly destructively) due to the corrosion on the rails on one side of the motherboard rails just to remove the motherboard. Whatever was bent can be unbent, but will need a *lot* of cleaning to refurbish. The contacts for the PRAM battery were completely gone on the (+) side, and gosh-darned near gone on the (-) side (enough so that it couldn't be repaired). I removed the PRAM battery & holder (with a pair of pliers as it was also damaged to an unrepairable state). That said, what do I actually do with the thing? My idea: Disassemble the unit and turn it into a 68K "microcontroller" trainer unit with a recent(ish) Flash ROM and Static RAM. Yes, I have the technology to build that. Or... back to the original destination (bad). Anyone want it for price of shipping? And yes, for those "keeping score" I have now built a "Mac Cracker." Do I get a prize for being the "Last Geek Ever" to build one? ;-) Laterz, "Merch"

15 years, 8 months

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More SCSI Confusion

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

Right now I have two disks and one CD-ROM in my Alpha 433au (all attached to the internal ribbon cable, if you have seen my question about the storage shelf, that is not connected in this instance). The SRM recognises them correctly thus: dka0.0.0.1009.0 DKA0 COMPAQ ST32550W 6415 dka400.4.0.1009.0 DKA400 MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-508 XS03 dka600.6.0.1009.0 DKA600 IBM-PSG DDYS-T18350N M S96E However, when I start the Debian installer, during the boot sequence it does a SCSI reset and then only recognises the first disk, thus: scsi(0:0): Resetting SCSI BUS scsi0 : QLogic QLA1040 PCI to SCSI Host Adapter Firmware version: 7.65.06, Driver version 3.26 Vendor: COMPAQ Model: ST32550W Rev: 6415 Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 So, for whatever reason, the CD-ROM and the other hard disk disappear. I have checked the termination and it *seems* to be correct in that the disks and the CD-ROM are not (or *should* not) terminating anything. There is a terminator at the end of the SCSI cable, and I believe the QLA1040 SCSI adapter does its own termination: >>>sh pk* pka0_host_id 7 pka0_mode ultra pka0_soft_term diff Does anyone have any suggestions why the SCSI reset during boot should make the CD-ROM and the other HDD disappear? Thanks Rob

15 years, 8 months

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S-100 history (was Re: CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 10/18/10, David Gari <dgari at msn.com> wrote: > > I may be able to help. I've worked for Morrow Designs (Thinker Toys), > Wordstar (MicroPro) and Stoneware (DBMaster). Yes, I am older than Godbout. > I have pwned two Altairs and an IMSAI. I took a tour of the giant (empty) > Cromemco facility back in the day. Sooo much promise. So sad. Sounds like you have a few stories to tell. My only experience with Godbout gear was using a couple of the full-sized boxes loaded with SRAM cards, serial ports (over a dozen lines) and a MC68K processor board - it was a proof-of-concept prototype for an X.25 WAN router that was a logical descendant of the CompuServe PDP-11-based serial I/O nodes (same architect, different company). I don't remember a single problem with the hardware - rock solid. When the company closed, I gave a 4' stack of enclosures to a friend in town. I should ask him if he's ever done anything with them (I am positive he hasn't discarded them - he's not the type). I have a Morrow Designs OEM ADM-20 terminal that I took with me to VCFmw, but I was unable to get more than baud barf out of it. I should hang an HP 4951 off of it to see what it's really doing. Care to share any interesting stories from the S-100 trenches? -ethan

15 years, 8 months

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Joining the list

by dm561＠torfree.net

I see there still are a few folks on Erik's VC forum trying unsuccessfully to sign up on cctalk; wasn't there some talk recently about taking some of the load off Jay's plate and giving approval authority to one or two other people? Or are new members intentionally being discouraged to keep down the volume, etc., as some folks are speculating? mike

15 years, 8 months

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Babbage Analytical Engine - CBC interview

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

For those that can listen to CBC Radio 1 / As-It-Happens show / tonight 6:30-8:00, there is to be an interview with the guy that wants to build the Analytical Engine.

15 years, 8 months

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Total Loss of Memory Re: Dyspeptic archaeologists [was RE: Xerox Alto on ebay (not mine!)]

by chd＠chdickman.com

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> wrote: > > Doesn't matter that it's crap if it contains an interesting verb form > not seen before, or mentions an historical fact only known previously > from a single source. > I keep thinking that Today will be lost forever because nobody thinks it is important NOW. Example: My daughter does not save her digital pictures on a computer because it is too much trouble and, besides, there is more room on the memory card. When the room gets too low, she deletes pictures from her camera because they are from last year and who cares about last year.

15 years, 8 months

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Xerox Alto on ebay (not mine!)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> Emulators are great for a lot > of things (offtopically, especially running WinXP in a sandbox) but > aren't nearly so helpful when trying to get original hardware working > again... I have to disagree. Only last Wednesday I was single shotting my simulator and the real hardware to find where they diverged. It showed up the fault after a few hundred instructions instead of running for a half a second before crashing (by which I mean the hardware stopping because it detected the loading of an instruction where one of the digits was not binary coded decimal). I am also working on a deeper simulator which models the actual gates of the computer and their interconnections. The source code of this describes the computer in great detail and I would say would be better than real hardware from some purposes. It will also allow monitoring of signals with a virtual oscilloscope and maybe one day, the introduction of simulated faults to test the brains of anyone mad enough to want to see how the original engineers would tackle faults. One day it might even have a 3D graphical interface where you can walk around the machine, open covers and connect your virtual 'scope and the original sounds recorded from the real hardware, like the drum running up. Roger Holmes ICT 1301 + many Apples - ][, ///, Lisa, and Mac up to the latest MacBook Pro.

15 years, 8 months

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Babbage Analytical Engine - CBC interview

by ragooman＠gmail.com

-----Original Message----- Date: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:31:40 pm From: "William Donzelli" Even the Romans had something like mass production for their armies. Romans invented the Hamburger :) =Dan

15 years, 8 months

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Applicon VAX 11/751 available

by legalize＠xmission.com

I didn't buy it, but I spotted a VAX 11/751 with Applicon branding on it at a surplus dealer. I will upload some photos I took to a picasa web album tonight. If there is any interest in purchasing it, contact me and I'll put you in touch with the dealer. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 8 months

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Tony and museums (was Xerox Alto..)

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 12:35:47 +0100 From: Andrew Back <andy at flirble.org> Subject: Re: Xerox Alto on ebay (not mine!) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> On (21:02 15/10/10), Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Teo Zenios wrote: > > > There are many old machines that are worth preserving but are better > > > off > > > in a museum then in somebody's cluttered basement left to rot. > > > > There are cases where that's true - but I know how museums can't > > possibly > > I feel even more strongly about this, having dealt with some particularly > clueless people at musuems and related organisations [1]. To the extent > that no part of my collection is ever going near a museum. Tony, does a week ever pass where you don't feel the inescapable urge to flame those who work at museums, regardless of their knowledge, ability and track record? You are rude and insulting. Yes, damned rude even. How dare you make such sweeping generalisations? If the subject of your disapproval were a particular race or subscribers of a certain religion this would not be tolerated. Yet somehow it is and you get to flap your jaw, spewing out utter nonsense asserting that everyone who works at a museum is an idiot, and we have to put up with it. And *you know full well* that there are plenty of people who work and volunteer at museums on this list. Oh, I'm not one, in case you wondered. ... So, how about this. Have you ever considered that if you slightly adjusted your attitude and learnt to work with people rather than lambasting them, you might actually contribute to the preservation of computer history for future generations. But, no, it's much easier to take the moral high ground and boast about how clever you are and how much of an idiot most everyone else is. Andrew --------------- REPLY: Whoa! Talk about "rude and insulting," and making "sweeping generalizations"... He said he's dealt with "some particularly clueless people at museums;" how did you get "everyone who works at a museum is an idiot" out of that? And if he and Curt decide that based on their bad experiences they won't lend their systems again to a museum, I think that's their choice to make. Finally, to suggest that he hasn't in fact "contributed to the preservation of computer history" is preposterous and highly insulting; I don't see many reverse-engineered HP schematics or extremely helpful posts "working with people" on here with your name on them... Not many of his contributions are relevant to my interests but I for one certainly appreciate the time he spends helping the folks on here, in the HP community and elsewhere (even if his rants are a little repetitive at times) ;-) Sheesh! mike

15 years, 8 months

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Xerox Alto on ebay (not mine!)

by ken＠seefried.com

>(I often think that the downside of ebay is that an item goes to the person > with the deepest pockets, and they're not necessarily the best person to treat > an item nicely)>> >> So eBay is precisely like every other market on the planet.>> >> Shocking. <rolls eyes>><rolls eyes back> I don't think that I claimed that it wasn't. My point was >that it often has a downside when it comes to getting items to people who are >best capable of preserving them for future generations. My appologies, Jules. I had taken your comment as Yet Another instance of the weekly "eBay sucks because people pay more than I would and, as a special snowflake Classic Computer person, I'm an authority and anyone who pays more than I would is an idiot" thread, when in reality it was Yet Another instance of the weekly "eBay sucks because anyone who outbids me is certainly almost possibly definately as far as I'm concerned, as a Special Snowflake classic computer person, unworthy to own it" thread. I sometimes lack the patience to keep track of the multitude of ways that list members condescend to the world at large. My bad.

15 years, 8 months

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ProFiles magazine scans.

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> >> I've taken this as an opportunity to reorganize the documentation > section of the retroarchive.org site a bit - It's now split between > hardware& software docs instead of being mixed together. > >> > >> http://www.retroarchive.org FWIW, Norton Internet Security 2011 calls http://www.retroarchive.org a "known malicious web site" for a "malformed container violation" which Norton characterizes as a virus. Tom

15 years, 8 months

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OT: definition, Dazzled (was Tony and museums)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 19:58 -0500 10/17/10, Fred wrote: >I remember when the dimmer switch was a button for the left foot. Me too, from last week when I drove my (1968 Plymouth) station wagon. "Dazzled" here in the US has a slight connotation of being befuddled by something wonderful, as opposed to something merely bright. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dazzled illustrates this; although the first (and presumably most common) definition has to do with excessive light, the second definition uses synonyms like "astonish" and "impress" and all three of the example sentences for the verbs have the traditional associations with pretty things (women, gems, splendor). -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

15 years, 8 months

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CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues

by js＠cimmeri.com

Well, I know it works, 'cause I've done it myself, but it's been awhile. It doesn't work 100% like an original or a Cromemco ZPU, though. After making all the mods to the CPUZ, you have to bring the CPA itself through all its updates if it hasn't been already, then you have to check the buss lines structure between the two boards to ensure are signals are what they should be... especially the ground lines. This last step is because the CPUZ is S-100 IEEE-696 compliant, whereas the CPA was not... John Singleton Subject: CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues From: Nick Allen <nick.allen at comcast.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 00:34:56 -0500 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Anyone have any experience getting the front panel of an IMSAI computer to work with a CompuPro CPU-Z S100 board? I read the documentation (http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/compupro/cards/CompuPro%20CPU-Z.pdf), and there seems some configuration required, I obviously am missing something as it is not working properly even after I attempt the config in the documentation. If you currently have a board working and can share a photo, or can provide any technical assistance, I would be extremely grateful! Nick

15 years, 8 months

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AT&T 3B1 Boot PROM and system software images?

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, Does anyone have images of the Boot PROM and system software for an AT&T 3B1? I've been skimming the 3B1 tech-ref which Steven Hirsch scanned, and it looks to me like an emulator wouldn't be too difficult a prospect. Take the UAE 68k emulator core, bolt on an emulation of the disc controllers, and write something to emulate the display controller. Link against SDL, add salt and pepper to taste. Problem is, the Boot ROM doesn't seem to have been imaged, and the same applies to the software discs. I've had a quick look on my 'usual haunts' (Bitsavers, the Bluefeathertech archive, and Google) but haven't managed to find anything useful... Have any of these items been imaged? Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 8 months

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AT&T 3B1 Boot PROM and system software images

by djg＠pdp8online.com

> Problem is, the Boot ROM doesn't seem to have been imaged, and the same > applies to the software discs. I've had a quick look on my 'usual > haunts' (Bitsavers, the Bluefeathertech archive, and Google) but haven't > managed to find anything useful. > Disk images here http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/ATT/unixPC/

15 years, 8 months

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Oldest original proper computer (stored program etc)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > >> I'm not counting the Zuse in Germany as its not a stored program >> machine, and anyway I'm not sure if it is a replica or the original. > What Zuse you are refering to? There are "many". > > The Z22 at the ZKM sholud be complete and and operable. (If the people > at the ZKM have not ruined the machine meanwhile.) It is tube based and > was build 1958. It is a stored program machine for sure. Main memory is > a drum with 8192 words. It is original and has been kept in working > condition most if its lifetime. I was referring to a wartime machine, I think it was Z4 with external tape program. As far I recall it can't do loops and uses relay logic. More of a programmable calculator than a computer. Any idea how often Z22 is actually powered up and run? I must read up on it. Thanks for replying. Roger Holmes.

15 years, 8 months

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W. Donzelli on Babbage & Machining

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

A top-notch machinist even of that time probably could make Babbage's machine. The question I have is - What would he use it for? Computing! Murray

15 years, 8 months

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CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues

by dgari＠msn.com

I may be able to help. I've worked for Morrow Designs (Thinker Toys), Wordstar (MicroPro) and Stoneware (DBMaster). Yes, I am older than Godbout. I have pwned two Altairs and an IMSAI. I took a tour of the giant (empty) Cromemco facility back in the day. Sooo much promise. So sad. If you send me full specs, a case of Seagram's 7, and a detailed symptom of the problem, I will try to help. dgari at msn dot com > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 08:09:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: Scott LaBombard <labomb_s at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <828014.33056.qm at web110803.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Nick Allen <nick.allen at comcast.net> > > > > Anyone have any experience getting the front panel of an IMSAI computer to work > >with a CompuPro CPU-Z S100 board? > > I read the documentation > >(http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/compupro/cards/CompuPro%20CPU-Z.pdf), and > >there > > seems some configuration required, I obviously am missing something as it is > >not working properly even after I attempt > > the config in the documentation. > > > > Hi Nick, > > Assuming that you followed the 'Imsai Front Panel Usage' section in the > referenced document, I would also take a look > at S100 bus pins 54 and 20. I haven't touched any of my Imsai's in several > years, but I do recall struggling to get a > CompuPro motherboard working with the front panel. If memory serves, at a > minimum I had to cut the trace leading to > pin 54 (External/Slave Clear) on the front panel PCB itself. I noticed in the > CPU-Z schematic that it is indeed driving > pin 54 on the bus, so that may well be the issue. > > As for pin 20, it is GROUND in the IEEE 696 spec. I can't tell if the CPU-Z is > driving that pin on the bus or not... if it > is, you may want to cut the trace leading to it on the front panel board as > well. > > I have additional notes re. another potential additional change that may be > required (somewhere) ...I'll attempt to find > them. In the mean time, I would try the pin 54 mod first, and then add the pin > 20 mod if necessary. > > > Scott

15 years, 8 months

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The MERT Operating System and the 3B20D

by spedraja＠gmail.com

A comment from MrBill about the *Bell System Technical Journal online*website make me review the last issues of this magazine in PDF available there. The volume 62 issue 1 talks about the MERT Operating System. What's about this OS and platform (3B20D) ? Something availble ? Emulation/Emulators in project or even possible to do ? Sergio 2010/10/18 Bill Bradford <mrbill at mrbill.net> > The telecom nerd in me just exploded. > > Bell System Technical Journal, 1922-1983. > > http://bstj.bell-labs.com/ > > -- > Bill Bradford > Houston, Texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks >

15 years, 8 months

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Oldest original proper computer (stored program etc)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

My ICT 1301 restoration is now officially a working group of the Computer Conservation Society. The Science Museum's Ferranti Pegasus and Elliott 401 have been shut down for over 18 months and the Harwell Witch project has not returned the machine to a working state yet. Though I don't believe its true, I was told my machine is currently the oldest original working computer. Not counting replicas or machines which don't have stored programs. My machine was installed in 1962 (and designed in the late 1950s). I'm sure some of you know of earlier machines which can still run programs, even if the peripherals don't all work. I would like to establish if mine is the oldest in the UK, in Europe or whatever and where it stands in the world rankings, like is it in the top ten? It looks like the IBM 1620 in the states is probably older but when was that particular machine (rather than the type) first installed? The 1401 of course is another candidate but I think the particular one being restored was first installed in 1964. Are there other? I'm not counting the Zuse in Germany as its not a stored program machine, and anyway I'm not sure if it is a replica or the original. It is surprising if it survived the extensive bombing by the USAF and RAF during WW2 unless it was stored in a bunker/cave/mine. There is an older machine in Australia which was working but apparently it too is currently has not run for some time. Many museums seem to be either afraid of damaging their machine by powering them up or unwilling to pay the operating expenses (electricity, paper, paper tape, punched cards etc). There are machines like the ICT1200/HEC in museums here in the UK but no plans to restore them, and the very early machines were broken up years ago and the CCS has been building replicas of several, including the Manchester Baby. Can anyone on the list help with details of working machine of the first and second generation?

15 years, 8 months

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another alto on ebay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

110599066440 Pretty lame listing. No useful pictures. He CLAIMS it is an Alto I, but you can't tell anything from the listing picture

15 years, 8 months

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Xerox Alto running?

by jws＠jwsss.com

Does anyone have one of these in running (reliable) condition? I found a lot of documentation of an attempt to run one at Digibarn for the 30th anniversary of the Alto, which did not appear to be successful, and that got me to wondering if there was a working one anywhere. Nick would probably be advised to look at that documentation as well as other web pages I've sent him as far as planning what he tries to do with his system. It appears there were maybe 3 sets of spares for the Digibarn one (just >from the video) and the photos showed in the background they went from morning light to darkness trying to get it working before giving up. I am not familiar with the person who was trying the bringup, but assuming he was one familiar with the Alto and with all those resources, it says a lot about getting one of these w/o extensive knowledge (true of any vintage system) and trying to bring it up. It's the nature of some designs they always did something you could nurse along to running, and some, perhaps like the Alto may be pumpkins until a lot of things work, and it can be very difficult to figure out if you are damaging them along the course of the effort (2 steps forward 3 back). http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/xerox-alto/

15 years, 8 months

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Confused by Alpha 433au and SCSI

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have a BA356 shelf with a DS-BA35X-FB personality module. The personality module has two high density connectors on it, I think they are 68-pin. The pins are too small for me to be able to count them reliably, but the cable has a 68-pin SCSI Wide connector on the other end. The second connector on the personality module is not connected to anything, I do not have a terminator for it and I am unsure if I need one. I have connected this to my 433au which has a Qlogic QLA1040 SCSI adapter in it. I have been unable to locate any documentation for either the personality module or the SCSI adapter. I am having problems getting the SRM to recognise the disks in the shelf. Sometimes it will see no devices at all, not even the CD-ROM connected to the internal SCSI cable. Other times it will see a ton of disks as shown in this partial extract from the console: >>>sh dev dka0.0.0.1009.0 DKA0 dka100.1.0.1009.0 DKA100 dka101.1.0.1009.0 DKA101 dka103.1.0.1009.0 DKA103 dka105.1.0.1009.0 DKA105 dka107.1.0.1009.0 DKA107 dka1100.11.0.1009.0 DKA1100 dka1102.11.0.1009.0 DKA1102 Just now I tried with one SBB in slot 0 and I got this: >>>sh dev dka400.4.0.1009.0 DKA400 MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-508 XS03 dva0.0.0.0.1 DVA0 ewa0.0.0.3.0 EWA0 00-00-F8-75-BE-63 pka0.7.0.1009.0 PKA0 SCSI Bus ID 7 5.57 pqa0.0.0.4.0 PQA0 PCI EIDE pqb0.0.1.4.0 PQB0 PCI EIDE When I added a second SBB in slot 1 then I got this: >>>sh dev waiting for pka0.7.0.1009.0 to poll... waiting for pka0.7.0.1009.0 to poll... waiting for pka0.7.0.1009.0 to poll... dva0.0.0.0.1 DVA0 ewa0.0.0.3.0 EWA0 00-00-F8-75-BE-63 pka0.7.0.1009.0 PKA0 SCSI Bus ID 7 5.57 pqa0.0.0.4.0 PQA0 PCI EIDE pqb0.0.1.4.0 PQB0 PCI EIDE >>> I am not quite sure what is going on, what the jumpers on the personality module do, whether I need to insert a terminator on the second personality module connector, or whether there are some jumpers on the QLA1040 adapter that need to be set, or is there something else I need to do. Anyone have any clues? Thanks Rob

15 years, 8 months

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another alto on ebay

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

> > 110599066440 > > Pretty lame listing. No useful pictures. He CLAIMS it is an Alto I, but > you can't tell anything from the listing picture > It's not, it's an Alto II XM, here are pics from a very similar close S/N system taken from VCF MW. You can see from those pictures the chip dates are in the late 70's and therefore the unit on Ebay is also a later version. http://vintagecomputer.net/vcfmw-ECCC_2010/Xerox_Alto-II-XM/ Bill

15 years, 8 months

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CompuPro CPU-Z with IMSAI and Front Panel issues

by nick.allen＠comcast.net

Anyone have any experience getting the front panel of an IMSAI computer to work with a CompuPro CPU-Z S100 board? I read the documentation (http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/compupro/cards/CompuPro%20CPU-Z.pdf), and there seems some configuration required, I obviously am missing something as it is not working properly even after I attempt the config in the documentation. If you currently have a board working and can share a photo, or can provide any technical assistance, I would be extremely grateful! Nick

15 years, 8 months

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3B1 tech ref scans

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

I have finished scanning both binders. Please contact me private e-mail if you are interested in them. Steve --

15 years, 8 months

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Seeking Commodore SX keyboard and cable

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I acquired a Commodore SX a few years ago, but it lacks a keyboard cable and one of the keyboard latches is broken. Does anyone here have a spare keyboard and cable for the Commodore SX? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

15 years, 8 months

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at&t unix pc

by emu＠e-bbes.com

Hi all, anybody still cares about them? Got a pile of them, so if anybody is looking for something specific, please let me know (will take a while until I get into this pile). Any good web page with hardware information of those? Cheers

15 years, 9 months

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IP Fragments - Worth doing, testing strategies?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 09/30/10 06:42, "Michael B. Brutman" <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> wrote: > I have been working on my TCP/IP stack for DOS, adding IP fragmentation > support. There are not too many more features that I want to add to > make it 'complete' before I open source the code and IP fragment support > was a big one. > > I am having a terrible time testing it though. It seems that IP > fragments out in the wild are pretty rare. I tried connecting to a slew > of remote FTP sites hoping to find one that was behind a really bad > network, and thus would have fragments coming from it. No joy. > > It seems that there are a lot of tricks out there to prevent fragments > from being created, especially when using TCP. The only way I can test > the code is to send myself oversized UDP packets. If it works for UDP > then it should work for TCP too, but I'd really like to test the TCP > path explicitly. Combine the tricks with modern broadband and getting > fragments is really difficult. > > Why? Are you handling UDP and TCP differently at the IP level??? I've written my own TCP/IP (for a PDP-11), and the fragment reassembly code I mostly tested using ICMP, since that was so easy. The IP code is totally protocol-agnostic, so if it works for one protocol, it will work for any. If you haven't done your code this way, then maybe you should rethink that part. TCP is, as you noted, explicitly trying to avoid fragmentation. So it's not an easy protocol to use to test this. > Even on the home network I am having a hard time getting fragments. I > put a Linux box between the DOS PC and a Windows machine, and set one of > the Ethernet MTUs to 576. Well, that didn't force fragments because the > Windows box is too clever. I could start turning everything off in the > registry, but I really don't want to get that involved. > > Off the top of my head I think I am going to have to get another Linux > box and dumb that down, if it is possible. Dumbing Linux down to turn > off the features and then restoring it to a good state is probably > safer/easier than doing it with Windows. > I doubt that would help you either. If you read through the TCP specs, you'll find how the path MTU, and thus MSS is determined. And I doubt you can turn those knobs off. > Does anybody have a good technique for setting up a simple network that > will result in IP fragments of TCP? > > Nope. And I don't really think that it should be neccesary. > On a related note, is this even worth it? I don't know of anything that > needs to send fragments except for NFS over UDP. There might be other > applications that send big packets over UDP but those would be the only > class of applications that absolutely require fragment support. With > TCP it is nice, but a user should be able to get around any problem by > setting the local MTU to 576. > > Yes, I think it is worth it. Not only can packets be fragmented along the way, but you are not even guaranteed that 576 byte packets will not get fragmented. IP requires that you should always be able to pass through 576 byte packets, but it don't actually say anything about fragmentation in this case. If you dig really deep, you'll find that the guaranteed minimum packet size that IP needs to handle without fragmentation is 65 bytes. All above that could get fragmented, so fragment reassembly is a good thing to have. I think, for instance, SLIP interfaces usually run with an MTU of 296, or something like that. But, with all that said, several IP implementations do take a short cut with regards to fragmentation and either totally skip it, or just implement reassembly, and not fragmentation. You can get away with that most of the time, even though it is breaking the requirements. Johnny

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identifying terminal by escape codes?

by jonnosan＠gmail.com

>The "device control" codes appear to have their familiar uses: > >DC1 = ctrl-Q = reader on >DC2 = ctrl-R = punch on >DC3 = ctrl-S = reader off >DC4 = ctrl-T = punch off >However, it isn't yet clear whether the device being used is truly a >reader/punch, or that these codes are used for some analogous purpose >to turn on/off read/write of another device. That would (to me at least) seem inconsistent with my theory that this is a dialect of Tektronix 4010 control codes - I can't work out any sensible interpretation of the sequence 1) 1D Group Separator 2) 37 7 3) 7F DEL 4) 20 SPACE 5) 40 @ 6) 1F Unit Separator 7) 12 DC2 8) 1D Group Separator 9) 37 7 10) 7F DEL 11) 20 SPACE 12) 40 @ 13) 1F Unit Separator 14) 14 DC4 that would allow for lines 1-6 and 8-13 to be both graphics control codes (positioning the cursor) and lines 7 & 14 to be turning a device on & off. of course, I may be tracing the execution flow wrong, and there could be errors in the dump... >> The escape sequences I see are: >> HEX ASCII >> 1) 1F 26 24 <x y z> : ESC & $ <xyz> >> 2) 1F 26 27 <x y z> : ESC & ' <xyz> >> 3) 1F 26 21 <x y z> : ESC & ! <xyz> >> >> where 1,2,3 are all output at different times, with <x y z> being >> values I haven't yet determined (they are register values i.e. set at >> runtime, whereas the first 3 bytes are hardcoded) >The first value is hex 1B, of course (not 1F). yes - my bad! >The x,y,z values apparently represent a record number (128-byte records). >x is an ASCII digit (30 - 39 hex) >y is an ASCII digit (30 - 39 hex) >z has the range 40 - 5F hex (at sign through underscore)

15 years, 9 months

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Legendary steampunk computer 'should be built' - programmer • The Register

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/05/analytical_engine_build_call/ -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy in the internet.

15 years, 9 months

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identifying terminal by escape codes?

by jam＠magic.com

> >Bears a strong kinship IIRC, to the Beehive Super Bee. > > > >--Chuck > > I cant find a full spec for that terminal, just termcap entries, and a > field service manual for a "mini bee" that I think is related, but > neither seem to fit beyond potential use of "unit seperator (0x1F) as > a "new line" marker (although even that seems a bit iffy, since the > 1F is followed by 0D 0A, i.e. CR/LF) > > I realised I didn't post any actual 'escape' sequences, just uses of > control codes I haven't seen much use of before (US,GS, DC2, DC4). The "device control" codes appear to have their familiar uses: DC1 = ctrl-Q = reader on DC2 = ctrl-R = punch on DC3 = ctrl-S = reader off DC4 = ctrl-T = punch off However, it isn't yet clear whether the device being used is truly a reader/punch, or that these codes are used for some analogous purpose to turn on/off read/write of another device. > The escape sequences I see are: > HEX ASCII > 1) 1F 26 24 <x y z> : ESC & $ <xyz> > 2) 1F 26 27 <x y z> : ESC & ' <xyz> > 3) 1F 26 21 <x y z> : ESC & ! <xyz> > > where 1,2,3 are all output at different times, with <x y z> being > values I haven't yet determined (they are register values i.e. set at > runtime, whereas the first 3 bytes are hardcoded) The first value is hex 1B, of course (not 1F). The x,y,z values apparently represent a record number (128-byte records). x is an ASCII digit (30 - 39 hex) y is an ASCII digit (30 - 39 hex) z has the range 40 - 5F hex (at sign through underscore) James Markevitch

15 years, 9 months

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new vintage web site

by shumaker＠att.net

FYI 10 SEPT 2010: MARYLAND INSTITUTE FOR TECHNOLOGY IN THE HUMANITIES (MITH) LAUNCHES VINTAGE COMPUTING SITE: MITH is very pleased to announce a new Web site <http://mith.umd.edu/vintage-computers/> devoted to its sizable (and growing) collection of vintage computers, retro software, and other artifacts from the early era of personal computing. The centerpiece of the site is a a considered metadata and modeling approach to computing hardware, whereby individual components of the vintage machines are documented, contextualized within their relation to the system as a whole, and expressed using Dublin Core. The site gathers links to other recent MITH projects in born-digital cultural heritage, and serves as a clearing house for our expanding portfolio in this area. It also includes newly written non-specialist's documentation for the FC5025 Floppy Disk Controller, a device used to retrieve data off of obsolescent media formats. The site is presented using the content management tool Omeka. It was researched and designed by Walker Sampson, who recently completed an MLS from the School of Information at the University of Texas; Sampson was in residence at MITH this past summer under the auspices of the IMLS-sponsored Digital Humanities Model Internship Program. MITH's Associate Director Matthew Kirschenbaum comments, "This site demonstrates the role that vintage computing can have in the environment of an active digital humanities center; as born-digital cultural heritage becomes ever more important, centers such as MITH will play a part alongside of libraries and archives in addressing its long-term presentation and curation." SOURCE:http://mith.umd.edu/mith-launches-vintage-computing-site/

15 years, 9 months

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Multimeter recomendations

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

As all of us who do hardware repairs know, a multimeter is an essential piece of test equipment. Until a couple of days ago, I used a Fluke 85 (original series). It did what I wanted, there were 2 parts of the design I didn't like, but apart >from that it was great The 2 thing I didn't like were 1) You have ot dispmantle the meter to change the battery, and it's assembeled with self-tapping screws going into the plastic case. I don't know how many insertions they will stand. 2) The most switch used resistive traces on the PCB with a wiping contact to connect them to an analogue input on the main chip. If that wiper didn't make contact properly, it sometimes got into the wrong mode. It owuld even sometimes power itself up (and flatten the battery) when in the off poosition. Anyway, I was using this iustrument on Saturday (actualy for testing the PSU, etc, in an HP2623 graphics terminal) with no problems. I put it away in my tool drawer. On Sunday I got it out for some other tests and discovered the display had failed. It's totally black for half the height, I asusem the liquid crystal material has leaked out (although the glass is not obviously cracked or broken). AFAIK nothing fell on it in the tool drawer (there are no really heavy tools in there anyway), it wasn't dropped, etc. Just one of those things. Alas Fluke say they can no longer supply the display for this insturment as a spare part. Given that I need the standard functions only (including a good continuity tester!), don't need excessive accuracy, and would like to be able to fix it if anything goes wrong, does anyone have any recomendatins? I am not conviced I should buy another Fluke, BTW. Long shot : Does anyone have a defective original-series Fluke 80 with a good display (maybe the ASIC has died or something). I would be interested in buying it. -tony

15 years, 9 months

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identifying terminal by escape codes?

by jonnosan＠gmail.com

>Bears a strong kinship IIRC, to the Beehive Super Bee. > >--Chuck I cant find a full spec for that terminal, just termcap entries, and a field service manual for a "mini bee" that I think is related, but neither seem to fit beyond potential use of "unit seperator (0x1F) as a "new line" marker (although even that seems a bit iffy, since the 1F is followed by 0D 0A, i.e. CR/LF) I realised I didn't post any actual 'escape' sequences, just uses of control codes I haven't seen much use of before (US,GS, DC2, DC4). The escape sequences I see are: HEX ASCII 1) 1F 26 24 <x y z> : ESC & $ <xyz> 2) 1F 26 27 <x y z> : ESC & ' <xyz> 3) 1F 26 21 <x y z> : ESC & ! <xyz> where 1,2,3 are all output at different times, with <x y z> being values I haven't yet determined (they are register values i.e. set at runtime, whereas the first 3 bytes are hardcoded)

15 years, 9 months

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I-mode phone

by evan＠snarc.net

A curator at the Computer History Museum needs to borrow (or obtain) a first-gen I-mode cell phone. This is for a long-term exhibit on the history of portable computing. I'm involved in the project, so I offered to ask around, including here on cctalk. However they need is * quickly *. If anybody has one they're willing to part with, please email me off-list ASAP.

15 years, 9 months

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identifying terminal by escape codes?

by jonnosan＠gmail.com

I am trying to disassemble some ROM dumps from the SacState 8008 machine (per http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-September/291012.html ) I can see a lot of escape codes being sent, but they don't make sense (to me at least) as Tektronix 4023 escape codes, which is the terminal type reported as being used with that machine. For example, the first thing output after a restart is: HEX ASCII 1F Unit Separator 0D CR 0A LF 3F ? pressing the keys "!\h" would generate this sequence: 1D Group Separator 37 7 7F DEL 20 SPACE 40 @ 1F Unit Separator 12 DC2 1D Group Separator 37 7 7F DEL 20 SPACE 40 @ 1F Unit Separator 14 DC4 Does anything there look familiar to anyone at all? this would be some kind of terminal from early to mid 70s. Cheers Jonno

15 years, 9 months

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Apple IIe manuals have been claimed

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Thanks for all the responses! The IIe manuals have sold.

15 years, 9 months

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FS: Apple IIe manuals

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Continuing to clear the bookshelves :) I have a set of original Apple IIe manuals for sale. Apple IIe Owner's Manual, IIe Reference Manual, 80-Column Text Card, Reference Manual Addendum (Monitor Listings), Extended 80-Column Text Card Supplement, DOS Programmer's Manual, ProDOS User's Manual, ProDOS Supplement to the IIe Owner's Manual, AppleWriter II, & Super Serial Card User's Manual. http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… $20.00 plus 8 lb (Media Mail) postage from zip 65775. Also an original Apple II Reference Manual: http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… $5.00 plus 1 lb postage. please contact me off-list if interested. I've got the //e also with Duo-Disk floppy drive, but it won't be worth the postage! thanks Charles

15 years, 9 months

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Microwriter MW4 help

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

Thanks, yes a schematic would be great. Can I post it to the web please? I'm sure Tony knows the following, included as background. Here's the adapter I used to read the 2564 in a 2764 programmer: 2564 pins?????? 2764 pins 20 (A11)??????? 23 (A11) 23 (A12)??????? 2 (A12) 2+27(CS1+CS2)?? 22 (OE) 1 (Vpp)???????? 28 (Vcc) 22 (PD/PGM)???? 20 (CE) (NC)??????????? 27 (PGM) All other pins connected straight through. The above can't be always used in the reverse direction (eg using a 2764 in a 2564 socket), as CS1 and CS2 may or may not be tied together depending on the circuit. Also programming a 2564 uses a different algorithm to programming a 2764. For example, on a 2764 Vpp can be left at programming voltage of 21V during a verify cycle, whilst on the 2564 Vpp is at 25V for programming and 5V for verifying / reading (I assume the 25C64 is similar but with a lower Vpp). Regards, John ============================================================== Tony Duell ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 11 15:29:35 CDT 2010 > I've finally made an adapter to read the 2564 on my programmer (which can o= > nly read the 2764). There were about 5 pins to rewire=2C I'll write some no= > tes later on the differences. > > I've upload the ROM image to: > > http://www.vintagecomputers.btinternet.co.uk/mw4/mw4.zip THanks. I've downloaded it, it unpacks OK. I wondered why the file was larger than ecxpected, but then saw you'd included both hex and binary images. I will probably burn it into a 27C64 (those I have, and my programmer can easily handle them) and make an adapter to use it in the MW4. Then we can see if that gets mine working. I won't be doing this just yet (I've gor various other things to do), but I will let you know how I get on when I do do it. If you are going to disassemble the ROM, do you need schematics of the MW4 hardware? -tony

15 years, 9 months

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IP Fragments - Worth doing, testing strategies?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 10/01/10 00:22, "Michael B. Brutman" <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> wrote: > Sean Conner wrote: >> > While I'm familiar wih IP, I haven't tried implementing it, but, what if >> > you were to set an MTU size of around 50 bytes? The IP header (sans >> > options) is 20 bytes, and the TCP header is another 20. I would think >> > setting the MTU to just above 40 might cause some fragmentation (I thought >> > of suggesting an MTU of just above 20, but then you're testing for IP >> > fragmentation, and not TCP fragmentation. >> > >> > I tend to do stupid stuff like that, but then again, I*was* hired to >> > write testing code at my current job ... >> > >> > -spc (In thoery, IP should work with an MTU of 30 bytes, right?) > The IP header is 20 bytes without any IP header options, and the TCP > header is another 20 bytes without any TCP header options. The minimum allowed MTU is actually 68. (I wrote 65 erronously in a previous mail.) See RFC 791, page 24. In addition to the 68 bytes for a single fragment, an IP stack must be able to handle 576 byte packets, but there is no requirement that this isn't sent in fragments. The receiver must, however, always be able to handle atleast 576 byte packets. > My implementation has room for 10 fragments per packet (configurable > with a #define), which is great for a 'normal' MTU size. If I tested > with a ridiculously small MTU it would wind up throwing a lot of things > away, but many implementations do the same thing. You should allocate that stuff dynamically. > My fragment problem is mostly on the source side - the source machines > are too clever about trying to probe and eliminate fragments. > > Linux has also been 'interesting' as a gateway. Some kernel versions > allow TCP fragments through even though they have bad checksums. I > throw away any packet with a bad checksum. Mixing NAT (Network Address > Translation) and fragments was problematic in my setup too - I think > that Linux was completely screwing up the payload checksums for TCP. What are you talking about? IP fragments for TCP don't have checksums of the TCP payload. There is only a checksum for the IP header. Only the final destination reassembles the packet, and can do a checksum of the TCP packet. Johnny

15 years, 9 months

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Seagate ST39173N 9.1GB Narrow SCSI Drive failure

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

Hi, Apologies that my first post to this list for a while is one requesting assistance, but my unjustified faith in hard drive technology has bitten me... The Seagate drive in my VAXstation 4000/90 (running OpenVMS 7.3) failed recently and it hadn't been backed up for quite a while. We had a power surge which tripped the main circuit breaker, and when I reset the breaker and turned the box back on the drive failed to spin up. The drive is recognized by the firmware, except that the capacity column shows ... instead of a figure. An LED on the controller circuit board lights a couple of times reinforcing that the drive electronics are talking across the SCSI bus, but as I say the drive refuses to spin up. The box was running a website dedicated to HECNet (it was at http://www.hecnet.eu) using the WASD webserver and was able to report on issues with the network and current HECnet nodes. My (limited) diagnostic skills would point towards a drive motor controller failure, or less likely sticking heads. Given that the drive has been powered down and up on a number of occasions without issue I'm thinking it is probably a controller failure rather than a head problem, but I'm open to alternative opinions. Does anyone have a Seagate ST39173N drive they would be prepared to part with for a reasonable amount of money? At the moment the only drives I can find are in the region of $150 which is more than I can comfortably part with on the off chance that swapping the controller board might give the drive new life. Many thanks for the help. Mark.

15 years, 9 months

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Old calculators

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I have more calculators accumulated over 30+ years than I'll ever play with, so would like to find new homes for a few. http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/PA030021.jpg >From left to right: -RadioShack EC-220 (Cat No 65-604). Working. -Unitrex "Memory-8". Missing battery compartment cover. Working. -Commodore MM2 "Minuteman 2". Not working. Comes with wall wart. -TI SR-51-II. Not working. Several years ago I put new nicads in the battery pack and it worked then. With case, wart & manual. -Unknown mfg. "4-banger" with LCD display and incandescent backlight. Works but has air bubble partially obscuring LSD's 2/3. This one was written up in "73 Magazine" in the late '70's or early '80's and was available from Meshna, Poly Paks or a similar surplus place. Would like to get $10 for all five, plus shipping from US zip 65775.

15 years, 9 months

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at&t unix pc (big black binder scan)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 5:34 -0500 10/12/10, Mark D. wrote: >If Al could send me the guidelines, I'll happily see what I can do. At 5:34 -0500 10/12/10, Alexandre quoted Dave: > > I for one would thank you wholeheartedly. > > Make that two :) ...three! -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

15 years, 9 months

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VTL/Dutchess logic

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, VTL stands for Vendor Transitor Logic. I (finally) found it in a S/34 hardware manual. VTL is Texas Instrument TTL chips with IBM part numbers. Henk www.ibmsystem3.nl

15 years, 9 months

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OT : RJ45 Telecom wiring

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Can anyone suggest URLs, etc that give the wiring of RJ45 sockets. in telecom applications. Not 10bse<n> (which from what I understand are not strictly RJ45's anyway), or ISDN, but older telecoms. The web pages I've found soe far give the wiring for up to 4 POTS lines on an RJ45, which is, again, not what I am looking for... In particular : What pins would I expect to find a normal 'switched' telephone line on (4 and 5, I think?) What about a 2-wire leased line ('private circuit')? Or a 4-wire one? Why would there be a resistor of about 866 ohms connected between pins 7 and 8? Why would pins 3 anf 6 be shorted together? In case anyone's wondering, I've bought a non-working telephone line simulator, and am trying to make sense of the numerous relays connected to the telephone connectors, which are RJ45s (genuine RJ45s, with the extra polarisation notch). Books on US telcoms practicce are few and far between over here... Thanks in advance for any help... -tony

15 years, 9 months

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Microwriter MW4 help

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

Hi, John S <john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com> wrote: >>> I recently obtained a Microwriter with an LCD display. >>> >>> Else it may be faulty >>> I found Tony's post from 2009 asking for a 'good' EPROM image maybe >>> mine is failing in a similar way. > >Tony wrote: >> FWIW, I am still stuck... I am pretty sure the Firmware EPROM in mine is >> corrupted, some 'chords' do not produce the characters I would expect >My one can generate all the letters, numbers and punctuation marks so fingers crossed the EPROM is>OK. >> IIRC, the EPROM is a 25C64 (which is slightly different to the more common >> 27C64). If you have a programmer capable of reading out that device, it >> would be interesting to compare the ROM in mine with it. >OK, I'll try and read the EPROM. This might take me some time, but I am keen to >do it as there is very little technical stuff about the MW4 on line. I've finally made an adapter to read the 2564 on my programmer (which can only read the 2764). There were about 5 pins to rewire, I'll write some notes later on the differences. I've upload the ROM image to: http://www.vintagecomputers.btinternet.co.uk/mw4/mw4.zip The file looks OK, but there are a lot of FF bytes on the ROM, which hopefully imply that the whole 8K bytes weren't needed rather than the ROM is faulty. Hopefully Tony can compare this with his ROM and come back with any further tips or questions. >I might try and disassemble the code too Not yet tried DASMx <http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pclare/DASMx/> (thanks for the link Phil), maybe one day. Regards, John

15 years, 9 months

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The "death" of GEOS

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

Interesting read since I haven't played with GEOs for a couple of years now. I know people who still used GEOs for the C64, but the PC version has been in limbo for a while http://www.osnews.com/story/23882/The_Death_of_GEOS_

15 years, 9 months

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Monrobot

by evan＠snarc.net

Does anyone know of a good history, online or in print, regarding the Monrobot computers? I found some technical info at Bitsavers and on Ed Thelen's site, but I'm looking for info about the people behind the company in the 1950s.

15 years, 9 months

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