Yes, I could do, easily. And if I manage to get a replacemnt displayu and the self-tapped holes doen't last, I may well do that. But if I buy a new, expensive, multimter, I don't want to have to modify it. The Fl;uke 85 cost around 5 times as much as a no-name meter with the same specifications on paper. Yes, the Fluke is probably more accurate, But it should also be better built, and I am not convinced it is. Since I was prepared to pay for a Fluke origianlly, it should be obvious that the price was not the primary consideration in choosing a meter. In particualr, had it been, say, $20 more to cover the cost of having tapped bushes, etc, I would not have worried. As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I recently bought the new Big Trak toy. This is assembled by self-tapping screws going into the plastic -- which is what I'd expect in a toy. But the battery cover, the part that the average owner has to remove and replace many times, is fitted with machine screrws into tapped bushes. Now, if they can do that in a cheap toy, they darn well should do it in an expensice measuring instrument. -tony

Oh so do I. Look, I mentioned I'd bought a Big Trak. You don't honestly think I need a toy plastic 'tank' do you? I bought it, intending to modify it. Ditto. I take just about everyhing apart to check it's been assembled properly (often it has _not_!) and to do modifications. But I don't do mods for no good reason. And to be honest, the sort of measuredments I need a DMM for are pretty standard ones. If I am spending a few hundred pounds/dollars on such an instruemnt, I darn well think it shouldn't need modifying... And _that_ is my main complaint. It can't bee a leakage or safety issue in that the self-tapping screws are metal (of course), and there would be no electrical difference if they were machine screws and tapped bushes. Probalby some idiot bean-counter had figurted out how to save $1 per insturment (not realising that had they sold them at $10 more, they'd have sold the same numbero of units), but in the process has got me sugggesting to all and sundy that Fluke is perhaps not the great brand it once was... -tony

On 22/09/10 22:11, Fred Cisin wrote: Sounds like me. Something else "more important" always gets in the way... -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Tony Duell wrote: Yes, you do! I've got stuff in the back of my refrigerator much older than that. I've got projects that I've NOT been working on for almost half a century :-)

On 23/09/2010 1:11 PM, Ian King wrote: Welll for me that would be ... open a lemonade stand :)

Tony Duell wrote: Well, I'm not sure I'd want something that wasn't sealed anyway, just so dirt couldn't get in there. There's a little rubber strip around the battery cover on one of my meters, for instance. I just wonder if you could chop the part of the case that sits over the battery and somehow turn it into a removable battery cover... Ahh, so the black portion is 'jagged' then? From your original description it sounded like a regular rectangular section corresponding to the lower half of the display, which did seem more like a driver-type fault. Something more irregular does seem more like a broken LCD :-( Maybe try the local Freecycle list? Given the population density around you, I expect there's a healthy nearby list, and such a meter's the sort of thing someone might have lurking in their loft that they'd completely forgotten about :-)

On 9/20/10, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: That material in that size happens to be the feedstock for Makerbot and RepRap 3D printers. It costs anywhere from $10-$15/lb, so a small snip for hole repair would be more in postage than for the plastic. -ethan

Do you REALLY think that Tony does not know to turn back the screw to find the thread start??? Everybody that I have evr met who did NOT know to do that was under 30. Somehow, the absolute basics of even working with threaded fasteners have fallen from the educational system, and people are re-inventing basic normal techniques. When is the demo on how to suck eggs?

Gene Buckle wrote: That one allways puts me to sleep. PS. topic . All ways keep spare batteries them too!

Gene Buckle wrote: No I only like green apples ... Still I think a good anlog meter, would still have its place as I find autoranging can take too long to find a value if you are checking power supplies.

At 01:15 PM 9/21/2010, Fred Cisin wrote: When I read it, I was waiting for something tricky like slipping in a bit of tissue paper to tighten up the hole. At 01:21 PM 9/21/2010, Fred Cisin wrote: Last flyer I saw, they were giving them away. - John

At 04:05 PM 9/21/2010, Fred Cisin wrote: What does that do? Heat helps it? - John

Now that trick I'd not come across. Mind you, I find isocyano acrylic hydro-copolymerising adhesives to be anything but 'super' :-) A trick which I do not claim any kind of originality for works on plastics that you can find a solvent for (dichloromethane works on quite a few plastics, it's sold as 'plastic weld'). What you do is put the bits together and run a brush dipped in the solvent along the cracks. That much is stnadard. Then take a piece of cotton fabric (an old shirt or similar) and cut a pieve to fit over the back of the broekn area. Put it in place and paint it with the solvent. Then force it into the softened plastic forming a sort of composite matrieal. It makes the repair a lot stronger. -tony

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, John Foust wrote: Those of us that build R/C airplanes use a product called "microbaloons" that are used this same way, quite often mixed with epoxy. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

On 14/10/10 02:11, fjgjr1 at aol.com wrote: Oh, cyanoacrylates are fun! Especially... * Sticking things together with them, then realising you need to do make a few 'final adjustments' with a power tool. Hit it with the Dremel... and you get a cloud of dust and fume which makes chopping onions seem like a fun occupation! * Gluing your fingers to whatever you're working on, the desk, the drill, etc. Thank $DEITY for acetone, Pacer Z7 Debonder and Swarfega! * The inevitable splattering. Thin CA mixes are evil. Thicker mixes (like ZAP Thick-CA) not so much. * Exothermic reactions when you glue your fingers together, then immediately hit them with debonder. That's right kids, the debonder acts as a partially-effective accelerant... Truth be told, I prefer epoxies, they're much easier to handle, if a lot slower to set. I keep a good stock of Araldite Rapid resin and Milliput epoxy putty on hand... But yeah, the bicarb-and-superglue trick works great. Just make sure you use a thin CA mix, the thicker ones don't work as well, and Superglue Gel doesn't work at all if memory serves. -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

Philip Pemberton wrote: Did they change the formula for Araldite at some point? I remember it being great stuff when I was a kid, but then when I used it in more recent years it just didn't seem as good. Various other substances seem to have suffered over the years due to replacing of harmful chemicals in them with less-harmful counterparts which don't work as well, but I'm not sure if that's why Araldite didn't seem as good. I've not found a really good off-the-shelf epoxy here in the US yet - various ones that are OK, but not as robust* as I'd like. * Although I did patch a damaged cylinder bore with some a few weeks ago as a test - so far so good. It should take the maximum temperature, but whether the heating/cooling cycles or oil contact eventually kills it remains to be seen. If it dies, it's out with the chemical metal :-) cheers Jules

An old trick for moderately-sized self-tappers is a bit of insulation stripped off some hookup wire and put down the hole first :-) And that's probalby more than they're worth ;-) -tony

I assume those are E-bay prices? Or is there somewhere else I should be looking? As I mentioend, I don;'t think my 85 failed due to external impact. It wasn't dropped. Nothing fell on it. Yes, it was in a tool drawer, with fairly small tools in boxes. Not in a tool box with hammers, etc. I don;t think a ruggedised version would have helped. While a bench DMM would be nice _too_, at this point I am looking for somehting I can easily carry about, use in the field, etc. And _old_ HP DMM would be nice (either BCD or GPIB interface, etc). But they sell for excessisve prices on E-bay, even when they are 40 years old. Yes, I could repair them (all TTL, etc), but... Sounds very nice, but I'll bet it's not cheap :-). For that sort of thing I'd problaby use my HP3421 anyway... -tony

I am going to be very wary about buying an old Fluke instrument now. Since they don't have spares for old models, and since they use a lot of custom parts which are not used elserwhere, if there are any problems I could be in the same situation I am in now. I've looked at those on THe Agilent website. They look nice, but without seeing one and/or a full service manual (which doesn't seem to be available) I can't comment any further. I am living in the wrong city :-( -tony

Yes, I looked at the service manual for my 85 to get the part number of the display. That one you were supposed to repair to component level, but it's one SMD ASIC, a handful of precision resisotrs, etc, the display, the range swtich parts, and so on. The only source for most of the parts would be Fluke. And of course the time you tend to need spares is when the instruemnt is getting old. Whcih is when they no longer have them :-( I think there are instructions on calibrating it, something which I probably don't need... :-) This is one thing that Fluke got right on the 85. The mode switch consists of a normal swich wafer soldered to the PCB. There's a plastic splndle that goes inot that with a hexagonal socket on the top end. A wiper assembly clips on the back (it will on;y fit one way round) to contact the resistive tracks on the PCB to tall the ASIC what mode it should be in. (the wafer does things like selecting current shunts IIRC). The switch knob comes off with the top case. Now the neat part is that there's a mounted pointer on the top of that little plastic spindle, and legends mounlded itno the top PCB cover (which also carries the display. So what you do is put he spindle throug hthe wafer (I can't rememebr ifit will fit 2 ways round, if so, you have to work out which one makes sense, then clip on the wiper (that will only fit one way. Then fit the PCB covers/display. The pointer on the spindle now points to a legend on the upper PCB cover. you set the user knob to the same position (say DCV) and then put the case together. CLIP? Err, no thanks. \ppounds 300 is a considerable expenditure for me, and I expect ot be able to keep it going... What has gone wrong with the world? Surely the sort of person who buys a 300 quid multimeter may well be an electronics engineer quite capable of repairing it. Yes, I discovereed this too... I just hope the current range probes neer get connected straight across the mains, or if the do, then some other fuse/breaker trips first. Or across a chargerd car battey (which could easily supply 1kA). Both of those I do work with, of course, but it's never eeally worried me... -tony

The point is that I don;'t like wating money. And I don't like throwing stuff away that could be repaired. I have no particualr love of the Fluke 85, and I don't even have a love of Fluke. The reason I asked if anyone had a dead 85 was that I have one with a dead display. If there's been a dead one out there with some other fault, then either maybe I could have bought it to extract the display and fix mine, or maybe the owner of that one would want to buy mine for parts. Either way it wuld seem to get an instrument workign again. Wait a second. This display fialed for no discenrable (to me) reason. It was OK one day, I put the meter away fairly carefully (I put it in the tool drawer, I didn;t drop it, or throw it in), next day it had lost some liquid crystal. There's no reason to believe that if I'd had a spare meter it would nevessarily still be good. And ICs do fail even when not pwered... Firstly, I don;t have $85 sprre at the moment. Sad, but true. I certainly don't have 2 or 3 times that amount. Not to mention shipping (based on ther things sent to me from the States, I would estimate abotu $30 per meter). And VAT (tax). In any case, if I buy 3 old Fluke 85s on E-bay, I am getting towards the price of a new Fluke (or Agilent) meter. And at least in the case of the Flike I'd get effective at least a 10 year warranty on it. Not that I like trusting warranties, and not that I like instruments without service manuals, but it would seem a lot more sensible ot do that that stock up on old insterumnwets that may or may not have failed by the time I need them, and for which spares are unavailable. It's a pity I am not looking for a benchtop or rackmount instrument. There are plenty of thsoe from HP and/or Fluke. And they still seem to ahve real service manuals. The older ones have few, if any, custom parts (in the case of HP, you might find a 'nanoprocesosr' (HP's microcontroller), but AFAIK that was always ROMless and was used in enough other products to be able to find them quite easily [1]. Of course I can't afford them either, but at least they'd meet my other reuirements. [1] If anyone has the instruction set for this, I am looking for it... I don't get it. Some new Agilent bench DMMs have proper service manuals. With component-level scheamtics etc. They are all SMD inside, the manuals have warnings that using the wrong tools will ruin the PCB and void the warranty (which seems reasonable enough). Now why isn't such repair supported on the hendheld ones? Should I conclude that some of them are direct-on-board epoxy-capped chips? I'd expect that in a cheapo DMM, I am not at all happy about it in a 300 quid instrument. -tony