- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Help to format diskettes for At&t 3b1 or Altos systems in a PC

by spedraja＠gmail.com

I need and be happy to receive some help to format diskettes for At&t 3b1 or Altos ACS/586/686 systems in a PC. I tried to do it in one 286 PC with one TEAC HD unit with bad results. I've encountered some documents in the Net about the matter but nothing definitive. -- Saludos - Greetings - Freundliche Gr??e - Salutations Sergio ----- "No creas todo lo que ves, ni creas que estas viendolo todo"

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:14:38 -0600 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <E1Px1RU-000789-Ic at shell.xmission.com> > > > In article <4D75366B.21696.2604652 at cclist.sydex.com>, > "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes: > > > We may be using flash both for external storage and internal storage. > > Flash memory is problematic for secure data. Basically, its nearly > impossible to securely erase a file from flash based disks. I don't know how that can be true. I can understand deleting doesn't work but is it true a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx onto the flash card doesn't fill it with zeros? And even if it doesn't, how hard is a flash card to destroy? Hard disks are tough as nails but flash memory can be snapped in two with your hands or a pair of pliers and burned...

15 years, 4 months

8
7
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs (6809)

by julianskidmore＠yahoo.com

Hi folks, > > At 23:56 -0600 3/7/11, Jules wrote: > >Yes, that seems to be the 'famous' one that gets mentioned everywhere. > > It > >seems it was of the shift-add variety. Anyone recall if it would work > > with > >signed integers? (I'm just trying to work out how the math works for > > signed multiplies at the moment) Mark Tapley wrote: > MUL is unsigned arithmetic only. Actually this isn't *quite* true. An n x n bit unsigned multiplier producing a 2n bit result also produces the correct signed results for the bottom n bits. Thus the 6809's MUL instruction produces the correct answer to A = -20 * B = -3 as it will store -60 in the B register. The reason is because with the n x n bit multiplier multiplying a * b, where b is -ve => a* ((2^n) - (-b) ) = a*(2^n) + a*b = a*b since a*(2^n) doesn't contribute to to the lower n bits. Consider a 2-bit multiplier dealing with the -ve * -ve and -ve * +ve cases: 01 * 10 = 0010, = -2 correct. 01 * 11 = 0011, = -1 correct. 10 * 10 = 0100, = 0 correct. 10 * 11 = 0110, = 2 (or -2) correct. 11 * 11 = 1001, = 1 correct. -cheers from julz

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

A first for the VCF ..... epic technical poetry!

by evan＠snarc.net

On the Day #2 of the VCF East 7.0 (Sunday, May 15), there will be something new and different -- folk singer Mike Agranoff will perform his 1987 epic poem "The Ballad of Captain Crunch" and other technical-themed works. Really! VCF East site: http://www.vintage.org/2011/east VCF on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vcfeast7 (please 'like' us there)

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

40 pin DIP chip tubes?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Any idea where I can get some cheap? I'd like to store these 6805 chip pulls in something better than a plastic bag. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 4 months

10
21
0 0

Heath H-1 analog computer

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Hey folks! I'm giggling like a little girl here, so I just wanted to share. :) Recently I was lucky enough to acquire a Heath H-1 analog computer from a very cool guy named Norman in Maine. My lady and I drove up there to pick it up. It's...just plain awesome. I've just finished putting together a page about it here, with pictures: http://www.neurotica.com/wiki/Heath_H-1_Analog_Computer -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 4 months

9
17
0 0

New year finds

by spedraja＠ono.com

Having in mind the recent mention in this list of one rare TRS-80 in eBay... I'm searching for ONE or a COUPLE of these items in this new year. * One Tandy 16 with Xenix * One unibus PDP-11 (35, 40, 45, 70...) to run early Unix family versions * One HP1000, 2000 or 3000 * One AT&T 3B2. I got one 3b1 and one 3b2/400, but this last in near to go down and need a replacement. * Xenix for the Altos 586, better in floppy format. I got one system but ist Xenix kernel is damaged. The rest is operative. * MP/M in 8" floppied for one Altos... 5-15 or 8000 ? I'm not sure about the model nor the terminal that it needs (VT-220 would be fine?) * One BA80 monitor for one compact (and funny) Nixdorf 8870. I got too one PDP-8/E needed of some boards to be operative, but it can wait by now. All in the most compact but operative versions available (not the monitor, of course). I have space available for them, but not in excess. All of them in the EU (European Union) area. Sergio

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

TRS-80 hiding?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Hey folks. Check out eBay #310298743467. Is that a TRS-80 Model I hiding inside the bottom front of that scan controller? It sure looks like one to me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Heath H-1 analog computer

by dougcoward＠hotmail.com

Congratulations Dave. I have only seen one up close - one time. About 15 years ago I did get ahold of most ot the manuals from the heathkit manual replacement service, all except the es-600 function generator manual. I still have not found a reason it is called the HC-1. I just call it the Heath Electronic Analog Computer Model ES-400, because es-400 is the model for the cabinet kit. I have a magazine cover about the Heath Analog Computer at http://www.cowardstereoview.com/analog/readlist.htm I've envious, Good Luck with it. --Doug Coward Poulsbo, WA The new home of the Analog Museum and History Center is http://www.cowardstereoview.com/analog

15 years, 4 months

5
10
0 0

IBM PC Convertible Speech Module.

by netsurfer_x1＠fastmailbox.net

Anyone here have the speech module for an IBM PC Convertible they want to get rid of? I just got one of these laptops & was hoping to score one. David M. Vohs Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64, 1802, 1541, Indus GT, FDD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Original Apple Macintosh, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer III. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy 200, PDD-2. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Comrex HDD, Titan graphics/MS-DOS board. "Scout": Otrona Attache. (prospective) "Pioneer": Apple LISA II. "TMA-1": Atari Portfolio, Memory Expander + "Centaur": Commodore Amiga 2000. "Neon": Zenith Minisport.

15 years, 4 months

5
6
0 0

BIOS/Clock battery replacement

by Hollandia＠ccountry.net

One of my computers is a 486SX. The soldered-in battery is apparently failing; after a period of power-off, the time is badly off at re-start. The date and BIOS are so far unaffected. The motherboard has provision for an off-board battery. I am thinking of using a socketed CR2032 battery which I believe is rated at 3 volts. The manual for the computer describes the off-board battery as 3.6 volts. Is it asking for trouble to use a 3v rather than a 3.6v battery? If so, where are the 3.6v batteries available? Thanks, Kurt

15 years, 4 months

9
12
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

> Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 12:06:10 -0800 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4D77DDB2.5030004 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/9/11 11:46 AM, vintagecoder at aol.com wrote: > > > I don't know how that can be true. I can understand deleting doesn't > > work but is it true a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx onto the flash > > card doesn't fill it with zeros? > > From reading the papers, there are many redundant cells, and the > controller between you and the flash is free to remap and lie about what > it has really done, including continuing to erase cells that have been > marked for garbage collection long after writing has stopped. I understand that and it makes sense "deleting" data or trying to overwrite a filesystem record doesn't necessarily do what we think. But filling the drive to its capacity with a utility like dd using zeros or random data has to work because you can read the data back, so it's really there. > This invalidates assumptions of repeatability of data recovery assumed for > forensic evidence. Interesting and I'm not sure I got what you mean. > Concern from the data security folks is what is really still there > on the parts if you go directly to the chips and bypass the controller. Right, for data that was "deleted", but new data that was written has to end up on the chip somewhere...and this means it really does replace what was there before, unless there's extra capacity there...in which case some number of passes of filling it with random data has to work eventually, by definition. Otherwise it's a bit bucket and not a storage device ;) > I'm concerned about the optimizations they mention in the controller > firmware geared to proprietary file systems (NTFS). What if these are > accidentally performed on some file system that ISN'T and NTFS file > structure? I saw a good piece on this point to the issue that most of the cards are optimized towards FAT32. It explained it may be harmful performance wise to other file systems that are based on spinning media and write small blocks, since the flash works best with much larger fixed blocks depending on manufacturer. I guess we will see some interesting file system development as people address these issues both from hardware and software angles.

15 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

... or mid-late '70s and early '80s CPUs, to be more specific. Can anyone furnish me with a better knowledge as to which processors of that kind of time period had hardware multiplication and division support? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_multiplier mentions the 6809, but I'm curious as to which* others had such hardware features (and when they started moving from simple shift-add routines to more complex approaches which used more silicon - or did that not happen until much later in the 80s?) * mainframe, mini, micro; I'm not picky. I'm more interested in building up a picture of how widespread hardware support was, and the various approaches that designers used. cheers Jules

15 years, 4 months

14
49
0 0

Digital archiving tools

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> OTOH I keep all of my images compressed, precisely because I want to know if any copy has been corrupted. Specifically I prefer bzip2 (even though a lot of my imaging activities from the 1990's, before I knew about bzip2, are squirreled away in zip files and I have not necessarily moved them to bzip2). If for some reason the only copy of a bz2 file became partially corrupted I could know which parts were good and which parts were bad: RECOVERING DATA FROM DAMAGED FILES bzip2 compresses files in blocks, usually 900kbytes long. Each block is handled independently. If a media or transmission error causes a multi-block .bz2 file to become damaged, it may be possible to recover data from the undamaged blocks in the file. The compressed representation of each block is delimited by a 48-bit pattern, which makes it possible to find the block boundaries with reasonable certainty. Each block also carries its own 32-bit CRC, so damaged blocks can be distinguished from undamaged ones. bzip2recover is a simple program whose purpose is to search for blocks in .bz2 files, and write each block out into its own .bz2 file. You can then use bzip2 -t to test the integrity of the resulting files, and decompress those which are undamaged.

15 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

List issues

by a50mhzham＠gmail.com

Can someone please explain what the problem is with my posts? I mean technically, not in terms of relative value to the discussion. I am (I'm pretty sure) legitimately subscribed to the list. You can ask Al Kossow who I am. I believe I have been a subscriber since 2002, although I only have messages dating back to 2004 to prove it. I was formerly subscribed as tpeters at mixcom.com. That was email address from the late 1990's until it was lost when my ISP got out of the business. In December 2010 I re-subscribed as a50mhzham at gmail.com and this is the address cctalk is sending all posts to. Except mine. I have just logged in and checked my options. Apparently I'm set correctly (settings are all as I expect them to be) especially "Receive your own posts to the list? " which is set to "Yes." I find I can no longer post. I do not see my own posts. My last few messages about SA-801 floppy drives were accused of being spam, with some sort of trojan or virus attached. What's going on? Why, if I get the posts from everyone, do my own not appear? How is it that I can log into http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctalk with no problem, and yet be unable to post? Please help. -Tom Peters 150 . [Language] Then there's the apocryphal statement attributed to Alexander Haig: "There isn't a word in the English language that can't be verbed." NEW: a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square EN53wc LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician ? Registered Linux User 385531

15 years, 4 months

5
7
0 0

AlphaMicro 68000 system, eBay BIN $125, located in Turlock, CA

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

I saw this on eBay. No connection with the seller. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Alpha-Micro-S-100-68000-Server-AM-1072-VCR-i-o-…

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:30:30 -0600 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 22 > Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 12:46:24 -0800 > From: Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4D77E720.3050100 at brouhaha.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Richard wrote: > > Flash memory is problematic for secure data. Basically, its nearly > > impossible to securely erase a file from flash based disks. > > vintagecoder at aol.com wrote: > > I don't know how that can be true. I can understand deleting doesn't > > work but is it true a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx onto the > > flash card doesn't fill it with zeros? > > That's *exactly* the problem. It doesn't. dd only fills the blocks > that are currently in use, but the card may have spared out marginal > blocks that still contain residual user data. Then I would think a few passes of filling it with random data should work. > This is true of modern hard drives as well. I like flash because you can snap them in pieces easily ;) All the theory comes to an end at my pair of vice grips! > > That's why the "secure erase" commands were added to the ATA command > set, and the drive is supposed to erase even the spared blocks. I don't trust that to work. But I do trust my vice grips.

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:37:13 -0600 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 13:39:02 -0800 > From: Christian Kennedy <chris at mainecoon.com> > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <77B95B40-4467-469B-B8EB-203C21DEAE3D at mainecoon.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > On Mar 9, 2011, at 12:46 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > > > That's why the "secure erase" commands were added to the ATA command > > set, and the drive is supposed to erase even the spared blocks. > > Sandforce takes this one step further in that their SSD drives have AES > encryption turned on by default. If you issue a ATA secure delete to the > drive the key is wiped and regenerated, rendering all of the data in > flash, both primary and spare, into garbage. That's a good theory, but you have no way of knowing whether there's key escrow or not. The safest thing is to use your own encryption, then you know the key will not wind up on the drive somewhere. That's pretty easy to do on Windows or Linux these days.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

No Idea who invented the hard drive (IBM maybe?) but Hitachi is selling out its division to WD who will now be number one in the market beating out Seagate. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9213599/Western_Digital_to_buy_Hitac… My stock of HDs has plenty of names that no longer exist (Fujitsu, Maxtor, Connor, Micropolis, Quantum, and maybe a JPS drive). I am sure there are dozens of companies that died before my collecting interest. I wonder if WD will be the last company standing making spinning disks before SSD takes over all markets.

15 years, 4 months

9
13
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:30:30 -0600 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:14:38 -0600 > > cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > > > > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > > > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > > > To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > Message-ID: <E1Px1RU-000789-Ic at shell.xmission.com> > > > > > > > > > In article <4D75366B.21696.2604652 at cclist.sydex.com>, > > > "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes: > > > > > > > We may be using flash both for external storage and internal > > > > storage. > > > > > > Flash memory is problematic for secure data. Basically, its nearly > > > impossible to securely erase a file from flash based disks. > > > > I don't know how that can be true. I can understand deleting doesn't > > work but is it true a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx onto the flash > > card doesn't fill it with zeros? > > You can't use dd to erase an individual file. You don't have to and that's not the point. The point is you can make a flash drive unrecoverable using dd. If you want individual files to be unrecoverable, just encrypt the whole flash device and never write anything to it in the clear. Easy to implement and a good general solution. > In addition, there are all the machinations that Al mentioned. The device > pretends to be a disk, but it isn't a disk. Doesn't matter as far as I can tell. It has to store the data you give it somewhere, or it wouldn't be useful. Therefore you can get it to overwrite whats already there, just not at the filesystem level.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Who will be the last HD maker down the road?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

> Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:05:30 -0500 > From: Joachim Thiemann <joachim.thiemann at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Who will be the last HD maker down the road? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <AANLkTinuT62O+YRh=V9h3Ad9zEjGwN_W4z-kvTjSRj+B at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > Writing a '0' to a location of the flash that used to be '1' MIGHT > leave the internal analogue state at a higher level than if the bit > previously was '0'. If you then operate the flash in abnormal > conditions (messing with the supply voltages) you MAY be able to get > the memory into a state where the reading thresholds are "just right" > to get the old state. That only gets you so much. If I copy a stream from /dev/urandom to the card having an occasional bit recoverable isn't going to help because of all the bits that can't be recovered. From what I have read I am alot more confident flash can be safely erased with software than I am about a physical drive since magnetism is harder to clean out than flash. Seems to me the point is not relying on a filesystem delete operation but actually filling the drive with random data. And as I said destroying flash is alot easier than smashing a hard drive.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

ZX-80 in good condition needed for MARCH museum

by evan＠snarc.net

Hello all, We're conspicuously in need of a Sinclair ZX-80, in good condition, for our computer museum here in New Jersey. Normally we only accept donations, but in this case we're willing to negotiate a trade / purchase, depending on individual needs vs. our surplus inventory. Please contact me OFF-LIST (thanks) if you have one to part with. Thank you. - Evan (evan at snarc.net)

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by ken＠seefried.com

On 3/9/2011 1:00 PM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Since the 9450 implemented the MIL-STD-1750A architecture I occasionally wonder why 1750a wasn't more widely adopted commercially, given a fairly open specification, relatively easy to implement, mature tools ecosystem and built in revenue opportunity from the military. Tangentially, I've got a complete Performance Semi P1750A chipset including MMU. I need to build something with it, if I could ever find enough doco to really understand it. KJ

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

cataloging metadata standards -- which are important?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Which metadata standards are important to computer collections? CollectiveAccess supports these out of the box: <http://wiki.collectiveaccess.org/index.php?title=Installation_Profiles_in_t…> - PBCore <http://www.pbcore.org/> - DublinCore <http://www.dublincore.org/> - SPECTRUM <http://www.collectionstrust.org.uk/index.cfm/collection-management/spectrum/> - VRACore <http://www.vraweb.org/projects/vracore4/> - CDWA/CCO <http://www.getty.edu/research/publications/electronic_publications/cdwa/> <http://www.vrafoundation.org/projects.htm> - Darwin Core <http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/index.htm> - DACS <http://www.archivists.org/governance/standards/dacs.asp> - ISAD(G) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISAD(G)> - MARC <http://www.loc.gov/marc/> Are there metadata standards in use by CHM that would be important to support for exchange of catalog metadata? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 4 months

1
1
0 0

2D barcode for program listings used in 80s magazines?

by legalize＠xmission.com

What was the name of that 2D barcode like print pattern that was used in the 80s in magazines to provide machine readable source listings? I remember these appearing in BYTE, at the very least, although I seem to recall them appearing in other magazines as well. The idea was that you would use a wand type scanner to read the 2D strips of data instead of entering the program listings by hand. It seemed to be mostly used for long BASIC source code listings, although I think I remember seeing it on some assembly hex dumps as well. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 4 months

5
6
0 0

2" floppy disks (Zenith Minisport laptop)

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Hi, I've had 2 of these for a while. Took a gander at one of them last night, and lo and behold, there was a disk in 1. Depressing the button did nothing to free the disk, so I too pliers and yanked it out. It was a thing of beauty. Unfortunately though the platter was all mangled up. Ok. Took the thing apart and the substrate or whatever the h* measured maybe a hair over .001" using a cheap caliper (won't mention country of origin). Took apart a 3 1/2" disk and it's platter measured about .003". Became feverish and measured a video tape and it was oh .00075". I'm aware that the oxides used differs on different media. But, and I realize there's a discrepancy in the thickness, but are the platters used in a 3 1/2" disk compatible w/the 2" standard. These things are just so friggin cute, I'd like to see them running again. I doubt anyone is manufacturing 2" disks out there. And incidentally does anyone know what computers used the Fujitsu M2551a 5 1/4" floppy drive? Something tells me it may have been used in the AT & T 6300/Olivetti?/Xerox? units, but I'm not sure.

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

anyone using collectiveaccess for their collections?

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://collectiveaccess.org/> Its open source (GPLv2) software for cataloging collections. Does anyone have any experience with it? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 4 months

3
11
0 0

[rescue] Stuff to dispense with pt 1.

by robert.herget＠gmail.com

Hi, Im interested in your Onyx prototype machine. What all does it come with? Robert Herget

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

National Software Reference Library

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.nsrl.nist.gov/Project_Overview.htm for an example of a large (about 18 million unique sums) database of file hashes It is interesting that they don't claim that they are all valid files, just that they have a hash and a file/path name from a known source

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

>> [HP PA-RISC in 9000 840 done in TTL] > That's a useful one to know about! Was it a microcoded design, or was the > instruction decoding more logic-based? (which might explain the PALs!) I'm not enough of a PA-RISC conniseur to claim that there's nothing like microcode In there but... PA-RISC was a very consciously RISC effort. Shift-and-add instructions are part of the PA-RISC instruction set. Deragatory remarks from CISCy folks complained that PA-RISC instructions were in fact microcode :-). Some block diagrams are in the CE handbook at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/9000_800/ According to openpa.net, they did a lot of good stuff with just 150 chips. I contrast with other minis of the 70's and early 80's which did much less with many more chips. From openpa.net: The TS-1 was the first PA-RISC production processor, introduced in 1986. It integrated version 1.0 of PA-RISC on six boards (each 8.4?11.3?) of TTL. Details: PA-RISC version 1.0 32-bit Three-stage pipeline The CPU consists of six separate boards: I-unit: the Instruction Unit Register File Board, contains general and control registers E-unit: the Execution Unit TLB, the translation lookaside buffer with 4096 entries for 2?KB pages Cache controller with split instruction and data caches ? 64?KB for each I and D FPC, the floating-point coprocessor, handles FP operations parallel to the CPU/ALU (the ADD/MUL/DIV chip was taken over from the HP 9000/550 FOCUS system) 4096-entry TLB off-chip, direct-mapped Off-chip L1 cache of 128?KB (I/D) direct-mapped/one-way associative Physical address space of 27-bit (128?MB main memory could be addressed) 8?MHz clock speed Six (some sources say five) printed circuit boards, implemented in FAST TTL and (25ns and 35ns) SRAMs/PALs, which each about 150 ICs Tim.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> background: I'm revisiting a homebrew microcoded CPU that I started > thinking about a few years ago (with the intention of making it > predominantly from LS-TTL if I can get enough parts together). I hadn't > considered hardware multiply or divide before (the intention was just to > have library routines in software), but if it was relatively common on > systems between the mid-70s and early-80s then maybe I'll include > something. Simple shift-add multiply with unsigned integers is simple > enough, but I'm thinking that if I do it at all it'd be nice for it to work > with signed integers, too, so I've got some head-scratching to do :-) As to "common", if your CPU starts looking like a 68000 or 8086, then you'll probably have both signed and unsigned multiply and divide. (I think the original x86 had some instructions to assist with BCD multiply?) 68000 or 80x86 hardly seem like clever minimal instruction sets today... and for a long time those implementing CPU designs have tended towards RISC. e.g. PA-RISC was in production from 1986 through 2008, was a high performance micro, and had no hardware multiply. If you're looking for a good model for implementing in 74xx series logic, keep in mind that in 1986, HP was selling their new workstation, the HP 9000 840, which had its CPU largely implemented in 74F series logic (I think there were some PAL's etc. but my memory fades). IMHO unsigned multiply will usually be most appropriate for the bit twiddling a micro has to do. BUT... if you're gonna do Fortran benchmarks, you probably want signed multiply. (This is a sore point when it comes to implementing bit-twiddling multiplies in Fortran. Understandable because Fortran was designed around ones-complement processors.) Tim.

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Digital archiving tools

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

What you want, for goals #1 through #3, are simply disk and tape images, as commonly used with all the major simulators/emulators and tools. #4 and #5 are not part of the disk and tape images themselves, but you layer on top with checksums (Aka md5sum's) and geographically diverse storage networks etc. It's important not to confuse the image, with the media on which the image may currently be residing. A well-thought out image container format will outlast many generations of media. (And indeed have; RT-11 Logical Disk containers have existed since the 70's, and DECUS TPC-style tape images for nearly that long). This is why #1-#3 have to be decoupled from #4 and #5.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs (6809)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 23:56 -0600 3/7/11, Jules wrote: >Yes, that seems to be the 'famous' one that gets mentioned everywhere. It >seems it was of the shift-add variety. Anyone recall if it would work with >signed integers? (I'm just trying to work out how the math works for signed >multiplies at the moment) I have a scanned .pdf of the 6809 programmer's manual here, happy to send out if anyone wants it, but it's 12.8 MBytes. (I got it >from the freescale website, since reorganized; it's online at http://www.maddes.net/m6809pm/ .) It says the MUL instruction A x B -> D (unsigned) takes 11 MPU cycles. ADD instructions take a minimum of 2 cycles, as do shift (roll, etc) instructions. So I think maybe there must have been some silicon (vs. microcode) involved in the multiply? I don't see how the shift-add sequence could be done in only 11 cycles. MUL is unsigned arithmetic only. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

15 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

need Radio Electronics from 1980

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

not sure if the Unicorn-1 robot series went beyond 1980. I need all of them regardless.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Lorlin Impact Test System Disk...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I recently picked up a RL02 pack from a recycler. After doing my usual tear-down and clean process, I tested the pack on my 11/34C. It was 100% error free - and was initialized for RT-11. It is the system pack for a "Lorlin Impact Test System", Software Version 1.0M. It contains the IMPACT drivers (IMPACT.SYS) and the IMPACT main program (IMPACT.SAV). I do not have any Lorlin Impact hardware - so I plan to wipe the pack clean and use it for other purposes. However, before doing so, I wanted to pass it by this list - in case someone has a PDP-11 based Lorlin Impact system - and doesn't have this software. If you need this pack (or a copy of just the Lorlin Software), please contact me off list. Regards, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley, AF6WS Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

15 years, 4 months

5
10
0 0

New to the List -- Criteria for Being Salvageable? -- Query

by captainkirk359＠gmail.com

Hello fellow classic computer enthusiasts. I'm quite new to the list, but an avid fan of all things "retro" computerwise. Though, at present I don't have anything that could be described as a "classic" system beyond a KSR-33 teletype made by Leigh up here in Canada sometime during the 60s or 70s. Now, on to what the main thing I wanted to discuss... I'm a student at Brock University in southern Ontario, and I've noticed that the faculty of computer science has a small collection of quite vintage machines; from what I remember there's a "classic" PDP-8, a PDP-8/L and an HP2116 I think. They also have a nice ASR-33 teletype in the collection, as well as various other tidbits. So, my question is what would the criteria be to be able to make those systems capable of being run once more? From a cursory visual inspection, the PDP-8 appears to be complete, FLIP-CHIP wise, the PDP-8/L is enclosed but dusty, and I think the HP - which is open - has a pretty nice loadout of cards. So going by modules I would say all the hardware is there (save power supplies?), so what would be needed to bring up one of those systems? And more importantly, would any one be interested in signing (an online) petition to the BrockU CS Faculty to convince them to try and restore one of their minis and their terminal back into a functional state? And as a final query, I have no idea if this could be considered off topic or not, but are there any DEC enthusiasts in southern Ontario? (And any who are willing to part with a PDP-11 or OMNIBUS based PDP-8?) Cheers everyone, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

I Never Knew That The VT100 Was A Computer :-)

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270716450383&ssPageName =ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 Regards Rob

15 years, 4 months

9
18
0 0

"300 Baud" magazine shuts down

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Issue #3 is unfortunately the final issue. You can now get PDF files of issues 1 through 3 from their web site: http://www.300baudmagazine.com/

15 years, 4 months

4
3
0 0

New to the List -- Criteria for Being Salvageable? -- Query

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:33:09 -0500 > From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <captainkirk359 at gmail.com> > Subject: New to the List -- Criteria for Being Salvageable? -- Query > > ...And as a final query, I have no idea if this could be considered off > topic or not, but are there any DEC enthusiasts in southern Ontario? > (And any who are willing to part with a PDP-11 or OMNIBUS based > PDP-8?) > > Cheers everyone, > > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove ----- Reply: ----- Several on this list are in the GTA and Ottawa area that I know of, but I don't know what if anything they want to part with ;-)

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:41:43 -0800 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs > > The 701 had multiply and divide instructions as did the 650. But > then, the IBM 603 could multiply and the 604 could multiply and > divide. > > --Chuck ----- Reply: ----- I suppose within the paradigm of the day you could consider the 603 and 604 "numeric co-processors", the only electronic (tubes of course) components in an otherwise electro-mechanical "system". The 603's claim to fame is that it's considered to be "the first mass-produced commercial electronic calculating device" and the 604 which came two years later in 1948 was an improved version which, as Chuck points out, added division capabilities. Having myself worked with the 604 (640 kilos/4 m3) I had to chuckle at its being called 'a miniature electronic calculator'; the word 'miniature' certainly had a different meaning in the context of the day: http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/604.php Wish I'd kept my IBM manuals, including the 604; the person to whom I sent them years ago (you know who you are ;-) solemnly promised to make them available on the 'web, but I haven't found them so far... BTW, FWIW with a little fancy programming the 40x series of 'tabulating machines' could also be made to multiply, albeit *very* slowly... ;-) mike

15 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 15:27:46 -0800 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs > > There were math co-processor boards (AM9511, AM9512, for example) for > S100 systems. ISTR that there was even a TRW bipolar (16x16? Huge > chip that ran hot as a pistol) for the S100 bus. > > --Chuck ----- Reply: ----- Also Cromemco's Maximizer co-processor and the XXU 68020/68881 (and later 68040) processor boards.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by rickb＠bensene.com

Konrad Zuse's Z3 relay computer, built in 1941, had hard wired 22-bit floating point multiply, divide, and square root instructions. That is likely the first implementation of hardware multiply and divide in a computer. Multiply took up to 3 seconds.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

The IBM 1130 had 16x16 multiply and divide in 1967. Shift and add. It was not a microcoded machine. On average, a multiply took 26 usec, and 11 of those were the overhead of fetching the instruction and operands.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

I Never Knew That The VT100 Was A Computer :-)

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 15:02:57 -0800 (PST) > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Subject: Re: I Never Knew That The VT100 Was A Computer :-) > It had some damage; I had to retrieve it after the college dumpstered MY > collection (in spite of specific paperwork from the dean authorizing it!) > I'd like to drop it on a college administrator's head. > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com ----- Reply: ----- No wonder you're grumpy... m

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

hardware multiply/divide functionality in CPUs

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 03/07/11 23:57, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote: > EAE was PDP-8 Actually, Tony is totally correct. There was an EAE for the PDP-11 as well, and it is a Unibus device, with a few registers in floating space. You load some of them with the arguments, and then read out the result at another register a little later. It was produced before the EIS came about, and probably only sold with the 11/20 and 11/15. But it should work on any Unibus machine. > The PDP11 series had multiple implementations including the FPP (2901 based) > and the FIS for the 11/23cpu (F11). The 11/44 had a FPU that used a carload > of 2901s. FIS first came on the 11/40. The same opcode space was then reused for the FPP on the 11/45 and onwards. 11/23 never had FIS, but the 11/03 did. 11/23 had an optional FPP chip, however (and CIS). In fact, the only two machines to have FIS was the 11/40 and 11/03 (and I know the 11/35 as well, but that is just a derivative of the 11/40). Why the 11/03 got FIS is beyond me, but maybe they didn't have enough transistors to implement the FPP, but wanted something, and reused that design instead, since you at least have some software that supports it. I'm pretty sure the FIS for 11/03 was an option, though, and not included in every machine. The FIS for the 11/40 definitely was. As far as integer multiply/divide goes, the 11/40 had EIS as well, but it was optional. Just like FIS. Johnny

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Pick-up: Cromemco System 3 - So Cal

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Local folk, Item: Cromemco System 3 Quantity: 1 AKA: Giant monster. Please come and take it away. Orange County, CA 92656 Thanks- Steve.

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

"300 Baud" magazine shuts down

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Eric writes: > Issue #3 is unfortunately the final issue. > You can now get PDF files of issues 1 through 3 from their web site: > http://www.300baudmagazine.com/ And I never knew it existed until now :-(. The enthusiastic attitude and WIDE pop-culture-artifact orientation reminds me a lot of CHAC newsletters (did they/Kip Crosby do anything past the mid-90's?) Tim.

15 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

Free: Stack of Victor or Sirius floppy disks

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Yes, a whole stack of 5-1/4 inch floppy disks for your Victor computer. All copies, no originals. Are they any good? Who knows! Do you want them? Heck yeah! Pay shipping and we can make it so. No sniping allowed.

15 years, 4 months

9
13
0 0

photos from the Living Computer Museum (Seattle, WA)

by legalize＠xmission.com

On a trip to Seattle last week, Rich Alderson was nice enough to show me around the Living Computer Museum's hardware collection. Here are captioned photos from my trip. <https://picasaweb.google.com/legalize.slc/LivingComputerMuseum#> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

15 years, 4 months

4
3
0 0

"300 Baud" magazine shuts down

by david＠classiccomputing.com

> Eric writes: >> Issue #3 is unfortunately the final issue. >> You can now get PDF files of issues 1 through 3 from their web site: >> http://www.300baudmagazine.com/ > > And I never knew it existed until now :-(. > > The enthusiastic attitude and WIDE pop-culture-artifact orientation > reminds me a lot of CHAC newsletters (did they/Kip Crosby do anything > past the mid-90's?) > > Tim. Ahhhhh, it doesn't remind you of my little publication at all? http://www.classiccomputing.com/hb.html Kip's web page stopped updating around 1997 and I haven't spoken with him in detail about what happened. I'm trying to get an interview going with him. He went on to co-author a book about Windows 98 and I don't know after that - http://www.amazon.com/Windows-1998-Bible-Frederic-Davis/dp/0201696908/ref=s… Best, David Greelish, Computer Historian Classic Computing The Home of Computer History Nostalgia http://www.classiccomputing.com Classic Computing Blog Classic Computing Show video podcast "Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast Retro Computing Roundtable podcast Historical Computer Society

15 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb