- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by spacewar＠gmail.com

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:45 AM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote: > The CM100 apparently only works on PC and XT era hardware. I saw > mentions on the web that even a 25 Mhz PC is incompatible. I have some CM100 drives, which may or may not work at this late date due to a combination of age and poor environmental conditions in storage. I do not have a CM153 interface card. The interface consists of three or four RS-422 pairs. At one time I reverse-engineered the 8051 firmware in the drive and understood the details of the interface quite well, but I've forgotten them and cannot currently locate my old notes or the service manual. Still, if a CM100 is useful to you, let me know.

11 years, 7 months

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11/73 (ba23) bringup after 12 years in deplorable storage conditions

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Robert Jarratt > There is no printset that I am aware of the for the H7864 PSU. Really? Wow. With all the machines that used BA23 boxes (both -11s and uVAXen), you'd think that the printset for _one_ of them would have included the H7864. That was common DEC practise; the print-set for the 11/xx system as a whole usually included the prints for the 'standard' power supply for that machine. (That's how we have the prints for the H786 BA-11N power supply - as part of the prints for the 11/23 - someone kindly pointed that out to me.) So I'd check out all the machines that came in a BA23, and look for the print sets for them, and see if any has the H7864 included. (If anyone finds them, do let us know if you succeed - I have a feeling I'll be needing them before too long! :-) Noel

11 years, 7 months

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dec rainbow claimed

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

The dec rainbow was claimed yesterday by a listmemeber. J

11 years, 7 months

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The Whetstone Benchmark

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

This is an interesting read about the history of the Whetstone benchmark and a good summary of vintage performance: http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/whetstone.htm Mark.

11 years, 7 months

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PET 6540 ROM operating temperature

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hey all -- A quick one -- what's the normal operating temperature for the old MPS6540 ROMs used in the original Commodore PETs? I noticed last night after running mine for ~30 minutes that the ROMs were very hot, to the point of being painful to touch. The machine is running fine as far as I can tell -- though I haven't verified the contents of the ROMs, BASIC runs without any apparent issues. Voltages are normal (just a shade under 5V). I've not experienced ROM chips that run so very hot -- is this normal? Thanks, Josh

11 years, 7 months

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equipment available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

DEC Rainbow, working. No shipping - local pickup only, Colorado Springs area. Email me off-list if interested. J

11 years, 7 months

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11/73 (ba23) bringup after 12 years in deplorable storage conditions

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Roe Peterson roeapeterson at gmail.com > I would remove all the boards, blow it out, insert the minimum board > set, (CPU, memory, DL console, maybe bus terminator depending on > backplane) and just turn it on. That long in storage, I think that I'd probably go for powering it on with a dummy load first. It's not _that_ much more work, and it could save some expensive/rare electronics. It you don't have any QBUS Minimum Load Modules, get a couple of high-wattage resistors (down at Radio Slack, if necessary) and rig the equivalent. The M7556 MLM draws 1A of +5V, and I like to run two for testing. RS sells 10-Ohm/10-W resistors (ISTR they had smaller ones too, but I needed to test a 12V supply, hence the 10-W), so buy four... Probably a good idea to throw a 'scope on the DC power, too, check for ripple, etc. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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old DEC boards

by sales＠elecplus.com

NC won't save by PN, but they will save by general description, like the ones with the purple or white tabs on the ends, they can pull those easily enough. If these are still wanted, can people please send me some pictures? What will probably be sent is a box of x number of boards weighing x pounds that have purple tabs, or white tabs, or whatever is asked for. Also need to know what people want to pay. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-792-3400 phone 830-792-3404 fax sales at elecplus.com AOL IM elcpls

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: tony duell > Err, isn't the first question 'Do you have a logic analyser?' Depends on who you're talking to... :-) > From: Ben Sinclair > I did find a Sigma brand M8043 equivalent on eBay for a decent price > (via a make best offer). Is using non-DEC hardware just adding more > variables, or are they generally okay? There are 3 factors to consider in using non-DEC boards these days, I find. #1 - Can you get documentation? (In this case, yes. I have some where the answer is a resounding no, e.g. a Clearpoint DCME/Q4E 4MB PMI memory card.) #2 - Can you get the cables/etc? I don't know the answer in this case; I will note that this apparently doe not use the same cable as a DLV11-J - it uses a 40-pin header - _but_ you may be able to plug your DLV11-J cable into it. There's an page that talks about it a bit: http://www.avitech.com.au/pdp-11-03/ba11nc.html#SCD-DLV11J/8P although note that there seems to be something wrong with the URL for the image of the board on that page, this works: http://www.avitech.com.au/pdp-11-03/pictures/SCD-DLV11J-8P_640X480.jpg and according to that page, you can plug a 10-pin shell into the 40-pin header. Seems slightly dubious to me, but maybe it'd work! #3 - How good were the boards when they were new? Reliable, flaky, etc? In this case, Sigma mostly made pretty good stuff, although I have no experience with this particular card. Your call! Noel

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > It doesn't seem to work on mine, so maybe I am having an interrupt > problem on the DLV11! Definitely an interrupt problem of some kind! But this is a big step; knowing we have a specific problem, we can try and track it to its lair. > I have V6 jumpered, V7 jumpered, and V5 on X to 0. According to the > manual, that's the factory setting. Is that how you have yours setup? Yes. So the first question is 'do you have a spare DLV11-J you can swap in'? I'm assuming the answer is 'no'. :-) Where are you located? Noel

11 years, 7 months

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VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello Andreas, hello Adrian, I'm interested on all UNIBUS (and possibly QBUS boards) and also to VAX 2000. I'm ready to pay an amount (but I expect it should be in proportion with the weight). How much would you ask to pick and ship? Andreas: I can't reach you via direct email, please check your SPAM service and contact me! Thanks Waiting for acknowledgment. Thanks Andrea

11 years, 7 months

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teaching young IT certed person about old minis/mainframes

by tom_a_sparks＠yahoo.com.au

A question for the ones that work in the industry and are working with old mini and/or mainframes: How do you teach a young IT certed person about the old minis/mainframe that your department maintains?

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > Thanks a lot for your help Noel! Sure, glad to help. I'm at just about this stage with my 11/23's, so it's no biggie. > I did write a Ruby program to enter programs in from files via ODT, so > I can probably run your test that way, assuming it's a set of addresses > and values. I can do that. Here you go (in Unix assembler, which is somewhat different >from the DEC one in some syntax details, notably '/' for comment, not ';'): br4 = 200 stack = 2000 conregs = 177560 rcsr = 0 rbuf = 2 tcsr = 4 tbuf = 6 rint = 100 . = 60^. conr; br4 / 1020 200 . = 1000^. test: mov $stack, sp / 12706 2000 mov $conregs, r1 / 12701 177560 / mov $rint, rcsr(r1) / 12761 100 0 mov $rint, (r1) / 12711 100 1: wait / 1 br 1b / 776 conr: movb rbuf(r1), tbuf(r1) / 116161 2 6 rti / 2 (The numbers on the right are hand-assembled octal, but I did put it through the assembler to make sure I'd gotten it right. The commented out instruction is clearer, but adds one word to the required type-in.) Here it is in address/location form: 60 1020 62 200 1000 12706 1002 2000 1004 12701 1006 177560 1010 12711 1012 100 1014 1 1016 776 1020 116161 1022 2 1024 6 1026 2 Start with "1000G" to ODT. It should echo everything you type, using interrupts from the console DL11 to do so. I did try this on my machine to debug it, and fixed one minor thinko (I had used "rts pc" instead of "rti"). After that, worked like it says on the tin. My machine is (at the moment) basically identical config to yours: an 11/23, a memory card (NatSemi), and a DLV11-J. (No terminator/ROM, it's in a Sigma box which has termination built in.) > That PDF is the one I was looking at OK. > though it looks like there are more diagnostics available for the 23+, > so that might not be completely equivalent to the test available for > the 23. Yes, that was my sense too. > I'm hoping a memory test shows that I have some problems there, which > is potentially the easiest thing to fix. Do you have a memory test, yet? I am planning on whipping up one of those too, for my own use, although it will be more elaborate than that console interrupt test. If you can use octal dumps to load, I can produce that form pretty easily: let me know what syntax your loader takes. > Someone told me a while back that the M8044 memory tends to be fail, so > maybe I should look for something else. Interesting; I have a whole stack, and the first one I tried seemed not to work. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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DELUA technical manual, VAX diagnostic

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

We have a crumbling DELUA in the VAX-11/780-5 at LCM. There is a copy of the *User's* Manual at Bitsavers, but not the *Technical* Manual. Does anyone happen to have a copy lining the hamster cage floor, vel sim.? The User's Manual refers to a diagnostic, EVDYB, which "runs under the VAX diagnostic supervisor (VDS)." Does anyone here have either of those things, or pointers to them? In the mean time, I'm going to try to get the PDP-11/70 to run CZUAD from a simulated TU58, but I'm told that getting the DELUA into and out of the crowded Unibus backplane is an exercise in bloodletting. Thanks, Rich Rich Alderson Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Ave S Seattle, WA 98134 http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

11 years, 7 months

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WG: Re: VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK

by aswood＠t-online.de

Adrian and all listeners to this list, as promised I'd like to specify my interest more in detail. I'm esp. interested in the - VAX 7710, various processors + memory - AlphaServer GS60e - VAX 6610 and some of the smaller Alphas or all stuff fitting into the van. I'd take a 7,5t van to go from Germany to the UK to pick up these items. As in 2003, when I went with Fred (van Kempen) to London to pickup a large PDP11 systems at Zetter, I'm offering interested persons to accompany this trip to the UK. On the other hand I'd offer the possibility to pick up items into the van to carry these to continental Europe to be distributed to interested persons. Accompanying people, or for items to be carried to Continental Europe would have to share costs for the van and the ferry costs to the UK. @Adrian - what is the time frame for picking up these items? Andreas -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK Datum: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:48:44 +0100 Von: Andreas Holz <aswood at t-online.de> An: "binarydinosaurs at gmail.com" <binarydinosaurs at gmail.com> Adrian, we are interested - in all stuff. Please give me time until tomorrow to specify our interests in detail. Andreas > Am 17.11.2014 um 18:02 schrieb Adrian Graham <binarydinosaurs at gmail.com>: > > Folks, > > Thanks to building reductions we're having to offload all our old VAX kit > and I'd much rather see it go to someone who can use them, even as spares. > There's also a load of UNIBUS and QBUS spares, too many to list. > > Big stuff: > > VAX 7710, various processors + memory > AlphaServer GS60e > Possibly VAX 6610 > > Less big stuff: > > Alpha 2100 + spares > Alpha 2000 > Alpha 800 > Alpha 1000 x3 > AlphaStation 2xx x4 (spares only) > 2 MicroVAX 2000 > Various VAXstations, 3100s etc + spares > Several BA415 VAXen, 3400/3800/4200/4300 > VAXstation 4000s > Possibly an Alpha1200 and DS20 (big box version) > > Collection only, obviously these things are HEAVY. > > Cheers, > > -- > adrian/witchy > Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair >> Is there a DL11 diag you can run on it? (If not, I can whip up a >> simple test to check it out.) > The diagnostics manual mentions this: > NDLAA0.BIN DLVll-J (M8043 & FALCON) LOGIC TEST > But, the only XXDP disks I have are the ones from AK6DN, and that test > doesn't appear to be on any of them. OK. Give me day or so, and I can whip up a really small test that you can toggle in to check out the interrupt on the console line. I won't be able to give it to you in a down-loadable format, alas: I'm working with a Unix (V6) toolkit, and at the moment I don't have the ability to produce DEC-format binary files, just Unix a.out. At MIT we did have a complete set of things for V6 Unix for doing DEC-compatible stuff (MACRO, LINKER, along with programs to convert back and forth between .REL and a.out format, and also to convert things to .LDA format), but at the moment the backup tapes I have which contain all that are in the process of being read, so there's no point to re-writing them all. > I've run a memory test program I found that's not part of XXDP, and I > believe it's fine, but is there a test in XXDP I could run? Sorry, I don't know anything about XXDP. Maybe someone else knows? > I don't see anything in the XXDP manual related to an M8044/MSV11. I'm not sure they'd have a MSV11-D-specific test program; it has no control registers or anything, so just a generic memory test is all you can do with it. > I moved all of the jumpers from my old M8186 to the new M8186. It works > just the same... It still fails that CPU test. So it's not a CPU problem. Starting to sound like maybe a DLV11-J problem - or maybe the test wants something we don't know about? > I found the microfiche for the KDF-11B on Bitsavers, but they're > missing the one for the KDF-11A unfortunately! That might still be useful. I wanted to look at the -11B one, but I'm not sure I've found it; is this it: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/xxdp/fiche_200dpi/0170_CJKDJB0_1123B.pdf The KDF-11A and KDF-11B are _almost_ identical, programming-wise (they use the same chip-set) - the only differences I know of are that the -B has i) a built in LTC register, and ii) Bootstrap and Diagnostic registers. > I wish I had the microfiche for this CPU, as the one for the KDF-11B > lists the hardware requirements! Looking at that CJKDJB0_1123B thing, it does seem to want things specific to the -11B (e.g. it tries to test the second on-board serial line). If it's not a simple DLV11-J problem, I see dis-assembly in our future, sigh. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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Coleco Adam

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

After searching since the late-90's, in the last month I've finally had some real luck on the Coleco front. First I got a ColecoVision, and then this last Saturday I was able to get a Coleco Adam quite reasonably. In doing some research I've learned that I should be able to replace the printer with an Arcade power-supply that supplies +12V, +5V, and -5V. I also see that I can get a IDE/CF adapter that lets me use a CF card as a drive. Now for my questions, what software is available for the Adam that can make use of a CF card 'disk drive'? Also, I gather that the system will erase any magnetic media when turned on or off? What is it that actually does this, is it the power supply, cassette drive, or something else? Zane

11 years, 7 months

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Calling Philip Pemberton - UNIX PC/3b1 Emulator follow-up

by mediatransferfiles111＠gmail.com

Philip, I have studied the documentation on your work on your 3b1 emulator project. I am trying to rebuild a bootloader for a Convergent Technologies MightyFrame, and I have several working UNIX PCs that I am using for study, since they are similar...(by no means identical, but similar enough). You seem to have done some fantastic work on I see your posts on comp.sys.3b1 from 3+ years ago, and I am very impressed with your ability to decode the design of the UNIX PCs bootloader file. I was wondering if I could request some help with doing the same for our MightyFrame bootloader. I'd love to chat. I've sent a few emails to the address you provide on your 3b1 emulator site, as well as responded to your 3-year-old comp.sys.3b1 thread. Congratulations on some fantastic work, and I look forward to connecting with you. Sincerely, -AJ Palmgren http://MightyFrame.com ---------------------------------------- */usr/lib/iv/s4load.verbose* Download the s4load.verbose source code <http://6reoquestions.com/misc/MightyFrame/ATT7300/Files/s4load.verbose> Here Philip Pemberton discusses the code inside of s4load.verbose <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21msg/comp.sys.3b1/VDPaYJCs0RM/dtXb5rVZ1F…> For reference, Philip is the author of a 3b1 emulator project <http://www.philpem.me.uk/code/3b1emu/>.

11 years, 7 months

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Looking for access or scans or info on WPNews

by jason＠textfiles.com

Hi, everyone. I?m looking for WPnews, or Word Processing News, published out of Burbank in early 80s. Editor: Barbara Elman. A friend is doing research in word processing history and this would help a lot.

11 years, 7 months

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Visual Technology Visual 1050 site

by rich.bramante＠gmail.com

Thanks to Jay, the previously orphaned Visual 1050 information site has a new home on classiccmp: http://v1050.classiccmp.org. This is a repository for all the information I could find on this early-80's CP/M system including photos, documentation, source code, emulation instructions, etc. etc. Please take a look if interested and let me know if there's anything additional you can contribute. Thanks again Jay!

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > I don't believe I have any discontinuity, but how would I tell? Well, usually, it's caused by leaving a card or grant jumper out. I don't think I've ever seen anything else cause it, although I suppose an electronics failure on a card (failure to pass the grant) could also cause it. But neither of those sounds like it's happening here (since you have only one card that can interrupt...) > I think with my backplane (H9273) I'm supposed to put everything down > the left side, with the BVD11 at the bottom. Right. The 9273 is a so-called Q/CD backplane, which means the QBUS (which only takes one dual slot) runs down the left side (when looking at it from the side the boards plug into); all the RHS slots are wired for C-D interconnect. > Currently I have starting from the top left and going down the left > side: M8186, M8044, M8043, then the BVD at the very bottom. That sounds right. And the chances of the 8044 not passing the grant are zilch, since it has very substantial grant jumpers. So unless your backplane is damaged (again, very unlikely), or the grant drive on the CPU card is bad (possible, I suppose), the grant should be getting to the DLV11-J (I'm assuming that test uses the console DL11 to test interrupts - can't think what else it could possibly be using :-). So, if the CPU checks OK, maybe the DLV11-J has a problem with interrupts? Is there a DL11 diag you can run on it? (If not, I can whip up a simple test to check it out.) > I have another memory board, but I know it's bad, so I can't try that! Probably the one you have passes the memory diag, though, right? If it's not an issue with the DL11 interrupting, it sounds like we may have to dig into that diag to find out what it thinks it's doing when it blows up. If I can get my tool-chain working (currently downloading the abs-loader isn't working right somehow), I'll see if I can figure out how to load it, and DDT along with it, and poke into it. Locating the fiche would be another way to go... Noel

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by spacewar＠gmail.com

John Foust wrote: > Apart from the card and the drive, there's the question of > the DOS driver software disks. I imagine it was just an API > and there weren't any tools at the DOS level. I'm pretty sure they provided the API used by MSCDEX, though I don't know where that API (MSCDEX bottom side) is documented. > You mentioned you'd never seen the SCSI CM110. This fellow > seems to have one. It looks like he had connections to Eindhoven. Cool! I'd like to get one someday, but it's not a high priority. Same with DEC KRQ50 (M7552) controller for RRD50.

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:03 PM 11/18/2014, Eric Smith wrote: > I do not have a CM153 interface card. The interface >consists of three or four RS-422 pairs. At one time I >reverse-engineered the 8051 firmware in the drive and understood the >details of the interface quite well, but I've forgotten them and >cannot currently locate my old notes or the service manual. Yes, googling turned up a number of your messages from a decade or more ago. You still have a pile of them, but you never had an interface card? As I said, there's a fellow on eBay selling them cheap and new-in-box for $10. Apart from the card and the drive, there's the question of the DOS driver software disks. I imagine it was just an API and there weren't any tools at the DOS level. You mentioned you'd never seen the SCSI CM110. This fellow seems to have one. It looks like he had connections to Eindhoven. http://home.claranet.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/sroom.html - John

11 years, 7 months

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Big VAX shipping in Europe

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

> I would *love* to get my hands on the larger VAXen. It would be such > a pity if they'd to to the scrapper... I do even have space and > three-phase power for thembut I see no straight-forward way to ship > them over here... OK, I am curious. No, I am not interested in the machines (unless it was a VAX 9000). How much could one reasonable expect to pay for getting a big VAX, lets say a 350 kg in the typical DEC cabinet, from mainland Europe to Britain? Or from Britain to mainland Europe? Or even to and from Scandinavia? Sure, one could hire movers and riggers - pay them enough and they will deliver a locomotive - but what about typical on-the-cheap hobbyist methods? -- Will

11 years, 7 months

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Looking for a Linux-usable EPROM programmer

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

If anyone is looking for a USB attached programmer, I picked up a Batronix BX40 Bagero II programmer recently, which is supported under Linux, OS X and Windows. This specific model doesn't handle PAL, GAL, MCU or NAND flash, but they have another model that does. It doesn't even require an external power supply.

11 years, 7 months

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VAXen in Hawai

by stephane.tsacas＠gmail.com

Civil Bytes: Our New Governor Should Upgrade State?s Sorry Technology http://www.civilbeat.com/2014/11/civil-bytes-our-new-governor-should-upgrad… -- Stephane

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: John Wallace > Perhaps not so obviously,11/23 boards were available in variants with > or without floating point, and (iirc) with or without memory management > unit (MMU) (correction welcome). No, you're right on target. (Although one couldn't have FP without the MMU; the FP registers were actually in the MMU chip, see MicroComputers+Memories '82 pp. 350-351. > is it vaguely conceivable that the diagnostic in question needs a piece > of hardware that isn't on the board in question Hmm. Possible, but from what I know, unlikely. That test claims to test: Part 1 - the CPU checks out the basic PDP11 instructions in every addressing mode with various data patterns. Part 2 - tests all trap instructions, trap overflow conditions R6, interrupts, the reset and wait instruction. Part 3 - tests the EXTENDED INSTRUCTION SET, the ASH, ASHC, MUL and DIV instruction all of which are, AFAIK, part of the basic chip. (Unlike the 11/03 and 11/40, where MUL et al are part of the optional EIS.) Although I see 'interrupts' listed there - I wonder what they are using to generate the interrupt? The console serial line? Must be, I can't think of any other device in the config he was testing. Ben, you didn't have a discontinuity in the grant jumpering, did you? What kind of backplane do you have, and in what order/slots were the boards plugged in? > or is seriously broken on the board in question? That is the other possibiliy. Ben, do you get the same error with both CPU cards? Do you have spare memory/serial line cards you can swap in? Noel

11 years, 7 months

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Looking for: Parts keyboard for chicklet PET (or just a "-" keycap)

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Made good progress with the PET; after fixing the video I got the reset circuit humming again (a bad ceramic cap on the 555 trigger circuit) and it fired right up after that, much to my surprise. And only 4 of the 18 6550 RAMs are bad :). Replaced a few terrible sockets and it's running reliably, albeit with only 6K of RAM. The keyboard on this thing has suffered some abuse; the "-" keycap on the numeric keypad has been broken off. I figure it's a long shot, but does anyone happen to have a spare "parts" quality keyboard they'd be willing to sacrifice a "-" key from? Thanks, Josh

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014, John Foust wrote: > At 09:30 AM 11/18/2014, Mouse wrote: > >> I was speculating that, on the scales of interest here, it's >> easier/cheaper to produce a non-smooth surface of a uniform material >> (how pressed CDs are actually made) than to produce a smooth surface of >> a nonuniform material (the alternative). > > I see... you're asking why CDs couldn't be made with a printing process > (ink on paper being effectively smooth) as opposed to the non-smooth > method of pits and lands. On one hand, it almost sounds like you've > re-invented CD-R, where a dye gets zapped and changes its reflectivity - > but I was surprised to read that even CD-Rs have a single spiral > "pre-groove" pressed into the polycarbonate. You'd need a rather precise > printing process to make tiny spots. > >> Yes, but I think the light normally used for CD reading is outside the >> visible range. This raises the possibility that the disc might be >> clear in the visible range but not in the range used for reading. Your >> experience trying to read it argues against that, though. Oh well, it >> was a nice theory while it lasted. > > At this point, I only hold out hope for finding an existing reader that > can see the pits, and the best candidate seems to be the oldest readers, > not the newest. > > I can't help but think this is an important topic for data recovery. A > peeled reflective layer is a common failure mode for discs. If there > was a way to dissolve everything above the pits (the label and aluminum) > and recoat with acrylic for protection, and read a clear CD, you could > rescue failed CDs. Couldn't one also apply a layer of aluminum? This is commonly done with mirrors for optics in telescopes and such, by hobbyists. I'm not 100% familiar with the process, but I understand it is done in a small vacuum chamber with some sort of electrical process to vaporize the aluminum. I think I actually have a /very/ early Philips cd-writer drive in storage, but it is behind a couple of large stacks of gear. It has a SCSI interface and is about the size of a home stereo component. I /might/ also have a Philips CM-100 on another more accessible shelf, but it may be a few days or a week before I can have a look and see what I have. I seem to remember the drive I have has an unusual data connector. Does the CM-100 require a special interface card?

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by johnwallace4＠yahoo.co.uk

Apologies if this is obvious/already covered, but along the same lines as Noel's "it's probably 'JKDBD0', not "JKDBDO" it's almost certainly "JKDBD0 DCF11 AA CPU DIAGNOSTIC" or maybe even "JKDBD0 DCF11-AA CPU DIAGNOSTIC" not "JKDBDO DCFlI AA CPU DIAGNOSTIC". Of itself, that may not matter much. However, it may lead elsewhere. The F11 was [obviously] the 11/23 (and /24) chipset. Perhaps not so obviously,11/23 boards were available in variants with or without floating point, and (iirc) with or without memory management unit (MMU) (correction welcome). Also, the relevant bits were socketed, hence a particular board today may not match the board (and part number) as originally manufactured. Relevant handbooks etc will contain further details. I can't remember what's been previously written in this thread, but is it vaguely conceivable that the diagnostic in question needs a piece of hardware that isn't on the board in question, or is seriously broken on the board in question? A search for DCF11-AA CPU Diagnostic gets a few hits, including http://www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-24/cpu/diags/jkdb.html which contains the delightful line "For more infromation refer to your microfiche library." and some rather more useful stuff too - sounds like you've found this or an equivalent already? Hope this helps, best of luck. John Wallace

11 years, 7 months

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Proof they're still in service...

by earl＠baugh.org

The other day I was touring one of the HP support labs where they have a LARGE collection of HW that is used for reproducing customer problems. (I was there to see some of the new Generation 9 machines that are coming out...) ANYWAY, they pretty much have all of the HW that they have support contracts for... and that generate enough questions to reserve floor space for the HW. Guess what still has floor space? A DEC 7000 and Vax 6000. Not a PDP-7, but still enjoyed seeing them...and knowing that enough places are still using them to cause HP to reserve floor space for them in the lab...(proof, as always, is in the pictures : http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/theearlsquirrel/library/ ) Earl the Squirrel

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

[John Foust, quoting me] >> I don't understand why this technique was used. Perhaps it's >> easier/cheaper to produce a nonsmooth surface made of a uniform >> material than to produce a smooth surface of a nonuniform material? > I'm not quite sure what you mean here. The goal is changes in reflectivity on a fairly small scale. There's no reason in principle this couldn't be done with a smooth surface by making the surface not all the same material. (A larger-scale example of this is ink on paper: inked paper reflects less light than un-inked paper does.) I was speculating that, on the scales of interest here, it's easier/cheaper to produce a non-smooth surface of a uniform material (how pressed CDs are actually made) than to produce a smooth surface of a nonuniform material (the alternative). > Wikipedia has an explanation of the process: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_manufacturing Yes, but it does not discuss why that process was chosen over various alternatives. >> Is it possible that it's clear only in visible light, with some sort >> of reflective layer present in the (infrared, IIRC) wavelengths >> used? > But as you mentioned, detection normally uses the phase shift, and > that's dependent on the frequency of the light. Yes, but I think the light normally used for CD reading is outside the visible range. This raises the possibility that the disc might be clear in the visible range but not in the range used for reading. Your experience trying to read it argues against that, though. Oh well, it was a nice theory while it lasted. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

11 years, 7 months

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VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK

by binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com

Folks, Thanks to building reductions we're having to offload all our old VAX kit and I'd much rather see it go to someone who can use them, even as spares. There's also a load of UNIBUS and QBUS spares, too many to list. Big stuff: VAX 7710, various processors + memory AlphaServer GS60e Possibly VAX 6610 Less big stuff: Alpha 2100 + spares Alpha 2000 Alpha 800 Alpha 1000 x3 AlphaStation 2xx x4 (spares only) 2 MicroVAX 2000 Various VAXstations, 3100s etc + spares Several BA415 VAXen, 3400/3800/4200/4300 VAXstation 4000s Possibly an Alpha1200 and DS20 (big box version) Collection only, obviously these things are HEAVY. Cheers, -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 05:57 PM 11/17/2014, Don Hills wrote: >I think you're actually more likely to be able to read it in modern drives, >which are designed to handle lower reflectivity as found on burnt CD-R and >CD-R/W discs. So far, no luck on that front. I think it would require a tweak in firmware. At 06:07 PM 11/17/2014, drlegendre . wrote: >Slap a layer of Mylar on the back and give it a shot..? Might even work >with something of lower reflectivity, like white paper.. Adding a reflective layer to the back was a first and obvious idea, but upon deeper reflection I don't think it's the right answer. The pits receive the sputtered aluminum. If adding a backing layer was the answer, you'd think CD-ROMs would've been made that way in the first place, as it's easier. It's not a matter of boosting reflectivity in general, it's about accentuating the difference between pits and lands. (I tried Krylon "Looking Glass" spray paint on a couple test discs. Although this paint does a wonderful job of mirror-izing glass, it turns out more gray on plastic.) If the anecdote about early CD drives being able to read non-aluminized discs is true (and I believe the stories) then it would seem the answer would be to find a drive that used the old Phillips read heads and somehow ask it to dump a raw image of the bits it finds, in order to allow another system to interpret the image. High Sierra wasn't adopted until late 1986, and ISO-9660 after that. The CM100 apparently only works on PC and XT era hardware. I saw mentions on the web that even a 25 Mhz PC is incompatible. At 02:51 PM 11/17/2014, Mouse wrote: >I don't understand why this technique was used. Perhaps it's >easier/cheaper to produce a nonsmooth surface made of a uniform >material than to produce a smooth surface of a nonuniform material? I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Wikipedia has an explanation of the process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_manufacturing >Is it possible that it's clear only in visible light, with some sort of >reflective layer present in the (infrared, IIRC) wavelengths used? The pits surface is normally aluminized and then covered with some sort of acrylic or lacquer. I too wondered if there's not some optical characteristic of that boundary that could work like aluminum. But as you mentioned, detection normally uses the phase shift, and that's dependent on the frequency of the light. You'd need to develop an entirely different optical path. - John

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap jumpers? I've never > actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do? Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and doesn't get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you have to use wire-wrap, or anything. If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make manual tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with a gun. Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap is now more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire, several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that cut the wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal :-); that's the way I'd go. They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to apply just the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up, and you tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight wrap. Too much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the wrap winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally weighted, and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight wrap. And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out looking bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: shadoooo > still I'm very interested to unibus (possibly qbus) boards. Actually, if someone in the UK wanted to be rewarded with a modest fee, I'd happily pay for them to go pick up all the cards and ship them to me (in the USA). Any I don't need I'd be happy to pass along. No matter what, they shouldn't go in the dumpster/recycle, if at all possible! Noel

11 years, 7 months

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Addmaster 608 documentation?

by anders＠abc80.net

Does anyone has schematics/manuals on the Addmaster 608 paper tape reader? /Anders

11 years, 7 months

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DECwriter II in NH

by silent700＠gmail.com

Not mine, just spotted while trolling Craigslist: http://nh.craigslist.org/sys/4731917401.html

11 years, 7 months

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Looking for a Linux-usable EPROM programmer

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I've come across a program called "geepro" for burning EPROMs under Linux, but I've yet to identify a known-good programmer. Could someone please recommend one? Geepro's documentation says that it supports the Willem 4.0. On Ebay I see the "GQ-4X" which is claimed to be a "Willem Universal". Will that work? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

> As I understand it, the depth of the pits are about a fifth of the > wavelength of the light used to read them, so the detector sees a > phase shift. I thought the pits were, in theory, 1/4 wavelength deep, so that the reflection from the pit is 180 degrees out of phase with the reflection >from the surrounding area, producing destructive interference (ie, manifesting as a drop in reflectivity). Of course, .25 is about .2.... I don't understand why this technique was used. Perhaps it's easier/cheaper to produce a nonsmooth surface made of a uniform material than to produce a smooth surface of a nonuniform material? (That's the other way I'd expect to produce reflectivity variations.) Is it possible that it's clear only in visible light, with some sort of reflective layer present in the (infrared, IIRC) wavelengths used? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > If I setup the BDV11 to control the LTC interrupt, should I have W4 in > or out? If you have W4 in, you can do whatever you want on the BDV11, with the front panel LTC ('Aux') switch, etc, and it won't make a difference - the machine will not do LTC interrupts, no way, no how! :-) If W4 is out, _and_ the LTC switch on the front panel is on, _and_ the BDV11 is set up to control the LTC, then the machine will boot with the LTC off, and the LTC can be turned on by the software (by storing a '0100' in 177546). > I'm currently only running with the CPU, memory, and serial boards > installed. Oh, one other thing to pay attention to: not all DEC backplanes have termination QBUS pull-up resistors. The H9270 and H9373 (normal equippage in the BA-11M and BA-11N boxes, respectively), for instance, do not. Those machines need something at the end of the bus to provide the termination/pull-up - such as a BDV11 or an REV11. And then we get to 18 and 22 bit busses... :-) Noel

11 years, 7 months

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VAXen available, pickup only from Newmarket, UK

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello Adrian, I can't come to uk to take up the stuff, but still I'm very interested to unibus (possibly qbus) boards. Do you think you could add some to the box of the SDI disks you have there for me, when possible? Thanks in advance Andrea

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > I did not have a jumper on W4, so I added one Err, adding jumper W4 _disables_ the LTC interrupt; see pg. 324-325 of the "Microcomputers and Memories Handbook (1982)". (Since you were apparently seeing LTC interrupts before, it makes sense that the prior state of the board had them enabled...) If you don't have that book, worth picking one up on eBay - full of all sorts of useful info. > The test I can't run .. is the JKDBDO CPU test. When I try to run this > one it doesn't print anything and drops me to ODT at 037526. Hmm. Probably need listings, or something, to figure out what it's unhappy about. The only documentation I could find online is the "PDP-11 Diagnostic Handbook", and various copies of the content there, and it's not very detailed. (BTW, it's probably 'JKDBD0', not "JKDBDO".) > The BDV11 manual says they are controlled through a register via > software, so maybe I'm just not running anything that sets them. That would be my guess too. > The only boot rom I have on the BDV11 is a TU58 boot loader, so if it's > up to some other boot rom to set that LED register More likely the system software, not the ROM. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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TI Silent 709 convert to 703?

by simski＠dds.nl

Hello there, we have a Silent 709 with external modem, connected through a db25M on the machine. is it vey different from a 703 with just a RS232 connection? is this convertible to RS232? -- Met vriendelijke Groet, Simon Claessen drukknop.nl

11 years, 7 months

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Reading a CD that has no reflective layer

by jfoust＠threedee.com

A contemporary band recently released a CD without a reflective layer. My son asked me about ways it might be read. It looks completely clear but when tilted in the light you can see the rainbow of recorded material. I believe it's a data CD, not audio, as statements from the band hint it contains the MP3s of their previous four albums. (Why did the band do this? They said they were making an artistic statement about the nature of and longevity of CDs, and as a puzzle to their fans. The other half of the package was on a second CD in an uncommon format known as "Mini-Max", where it is an ordinary-sized CD but only the center 3" is silvered, giving it a distinctive look.) I asked a friend who was an engineer at a 3M pressing plant in 1986-88. He said that early CD-ROM drives could read a CD that didn't have a reflective layer. He thought these drives had some of the first Phillips and Sony mechanisms. He said they read discs like this "all the time" in the production process. He also thought there were a few "novelty" cealer discs produced this way in those early days. He thought that by today's standards, these first-gen readers had lasers that were overpowered and the gain circuitry more sensitive, so they were able to read the un-aluminumized pits in the pressed polycarbonate. I believe I first acquired a CD-ROM drive in 1988 or so. I may even still have it, but I've yet to hunt for it in my storage. I don't remember the brand of its internals. On eBay I see old Phillips CD reading mechanisms selling for astounding prices of more than $500, as they're used by equally astoundingly-priced ($3,000-5,000) high-end CD players such as the Studer brand. Bits is bits, you'd think, but as usual, not for the high-end audio enthusiast. http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT1/D730/D730.html The same mechanisms were used in the first CD-ROm readers for PCs such as the Phillips CM100. I believe this CD has its top-coat of acrylic / lacquer. I think that adding a reflective layer at this point (such a shiny paint) wouldn't affect the readability of the pits (and that spray-paint would probably melt the lacquer.) As I understand it, the depth of the pits are about a fifth of the wavelength of the light used to read them, so the detector sees a phase shift. Does anyone remember if first-gen CD drives had such super-powers? Does anyone remember any clear pressed CDs? Any advice on how this clear CD might be read? - John

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > I wasn't clear though on the discussion about the line clock... If my > machine is having problems with the line clock, would I need to do > anything to the aux switch, other than leave it in a certain position? Well, I wouldn't call it a 'problem'. The thing is that the 11/03 and 11/23 were, unlike all other PDP-11s, designed with a line clock which _the software could not enable/disable_. [*] The only way to turn the LTC on/off on those machines is with that front-panel switch. When running software which _does not_ handle line clock interrupts, turning the LTC on will blow the software away - it will get an un-handled interrupt. (As happened to you.) So if you're running code which does not use/handle the LTC (like XXDP, apparently), turn it off. If you're running something that does want/need it, turn it on. (And some software may require that it be _off_ while booting, and turned _on_ once the system has started - Unix V6 falls into this category.) * Two caveats. First, the 11/23-PLUS _does_ have software control over the LTC; there's an LTC register on that board; it's only the dual-height 11/23 which does not. Second, the BDV11 card has this really elegant kludge that basically adds an LTC register to a 11/03 or an 11/23, so on an 11/03 or 11/23 with a BDV11, you can leave the LTC switch on all the time, and the software can enable line clock interrupts if it wants them. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/23 Debugging

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Noel Chiappa > There's documentation somewhere (don't recall off the top of my head > ..) about how to configure the Aux switch. Remembered where I saw it: in the "PDP-11/23B Mounting Box User's Guide" (EK-23BMB-UG-001), available here: http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/EK-23BMB-UG-001%20PDP-11-23B%20Mou…'s%20Guide.pdf among many other places, on pp. 2-3 and 2-4. (This manual talks about the BA11-S, but the front panel configuration is the same for other boxes - my BA11-N has the exact same hardware on the front panel.) Noel

11 years, 7 months

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Looking for.....

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Shortly I'll be building yet another HP2000 TSB machine, so I'm looking for either of the following: HP 12920B Asynchronous Multiplexer : 12920-60001 Upper Select Code Data Board 12920-60002 Lower Select Code Data Board 12922-60001 Control Board Or HP 12920A Asynchronous Multiplexer: 12921-60001 Upper Select Code Data Board 12921-60002 Lower Select Code Data Board 12922-60001 Control Board Generous bounty and/or trades available for either of the above. Even single boards of any of the above would be a big help. Best, J

11 years, 7 months

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ICL Quattro

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Yvan Janssens > TNMOC in Bletchley Park [1] > ... > [1]: http://www.tnmoc.org/ Wow! What a great site! Thanks for the pointer. Y'all should go check it out - they are building an EDSAC replica, and the have the original Harwell Dekatron (aka WITCH) - the world's oldest operational computer - designed 1949, first operated 1951. Noel

11 years, 7 months

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HP2000 TSB Contributed Library

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Curious if anyone might remember this. On the HP2K TSB system I used in high school, there was a system library program to assist with what we then called "spot plotting". This is what allowed you to position the cursor anywhere on the screen (given a terminal specific library of control codes for each terminal). All I can remember was that the system library program was called something like $PLOT or $ZPLOT or something similar. It was something to the effect of a different string with the control codes for each terminal, and the substring positions matched up with the row/column you wanted to go to. So printing A$(3,1);A$(8,1) or similar positioned the cursor at row 3 column 8. I'm sure this description isn't completely correct but it was something similar to that. I've looked through the HP Contributed library and while I can find a number of programs named similar to PLOT, none of them seem to provide this functionality. Perhaps it was site specific, but I'm wondering if anyone remembers anything like this and can shed light on it? I think it was a program stub that you "APP-" to your program, not sure. Best, J

11 years, 7 months

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