Hi, I
ve never been to this Trenton Computer Fair.
What can I expect for things such as parking?
Will I have to walk a mile and a half to get there?
What is it really? Is it like a giant flea market?
Is there admission? It will still be there on
Sunday right? What kind of stuff do they have there?
Is it all old stuff? Is it all new stuff? Do
these people try and "rip" you off? [Im asking because
Id like to pick up a CP/M machine here and dont want to
pay $100 for it] Sory for all the questions!
Les
PS
Anyone know how to get there from the Philly area? :)
[never been to Trenton]
FYI: Alltronics is selling the Atari 1020 color printer for 15 dollars.
www.alltronics.com - they're in San Jose, California. Thought you Atari fans
might want to know.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
--
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes.
The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction!
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_
>In a message dated 97-04-14 22:27:40 EDT, you write:
>
>> > >Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of=20
>> > >this range?
>> >
>I'm seriously outside of =20. more like =20 +25(next week).
>
>Lou
Just a young man are you.
Last week I turned 53.
-Ron Mitchell
I'll take the 1000. I have a 68000 chip sitting around from my old Amiga and
the drives are pretty easy to find. If it's still available let me know what
the shipping is.
Regards,
Lou
Turns out I was too quick to place the blame on an errant journalist.
The article, excerpted below (not for profit, and do not forward, etc)
actually does say "apple 1" -- it was some bozo on Usenet that made the
mistake.
The part about the Computer Bowl is correct though.
Kai
02490420 60320 THE CUTTING EDGE A Byte of History
Techies Taking a Scroll Down Memory Lane
Los Angeles Times (LT) - MONDAY August 12, 1996 By: GREG MILLER; TIMES
STAFF WRITER Edition: Home Edition Section: Business Page: 1 Pt. D
Story Type: Main Story; Infobox Word Count: 1,797
TEXT:
The nerds are getting nostalgic.
Barely 20 years into the personal computer revolution, techies
across the country are growing increasingly sentimental about the
machines and programs that changed their lives and ushered in the
Information Age.
For them, booting up a vintage Commodore PET computer can conjure
misty-eyed memories. Toggling the switches of an Altair 8800 is better
than gripping the gearshift of a first car. And a shrink-wrapped copy of
VisiCalc software beats a mint-condition Mickey Mantle baseball card any
day.
This is the memorabilia of the PC generation, and after spending
much of the last decade or two collecting dust in suburban garages from
Silicon Valley to Boston's Route 128, it's starting to make a comeback.
Virtual museums of vintage hardware and software are sprouting up
all over the Internet's World Wide Web, as are online classified ads
placed by collectors desperate to reacquire the technological wonders of
their youth. Some rare PCs are fetching much higher prices now than they
did when they were brand-new, and even revered institutions such as the
Smithsonian are bolstering their computer collections.
"The amount of activity that I see is amazing," said Kip Crosby,
president of the Computer History Assn. of California in Palo Alto.
"People are always asking me: 'Can you find me an Altair? Can you find
this or that?' I get 10 to 20 phone calls and e-mails a month, twice as
many as a year ago."
Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very
well when they were new, are even more troublesome to maintain now--and
have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment.
But like certain cars or baseball cards, high-tech relics are
somehow enhanced by the passage of time. Collectors see them as the
symbols of a more colorful computer age populated by legendary
personalities who became billionaires--or, in some cases, went bust.
"That's why I'm interested in computer history," said Co Ho, 30, an
Internet administrator at Fullerton College. "Many people could have
made it big, but they fell asleep and ended up having somebody else
eating their cake."
Ho collects vintage software, especially programs that changed the
computing landscape but somehow faltered. One of his favorite pieces is
CP/M, an early operating system created by Digital Research.
CP/M might have become the operating system had Digital Research's
founder, the late Gary Kildall, been more hospitable when IBM came
calling to license his software. In a legendary blunder, Kildall and his
wife refused to sign IBM's confidentiality agreement, and IBM executives
took their business to a then-tiny company known as Microsoft.
"CP/M missed the boat because of casual behavior," Ho said. "It's
really a sad story."
Ho is one of the few people who collect software. More collect
hardware, and one of the most sought-after machines is the Altair 8800,
introduced by MITS Inc. of Albuquerque in 1975. It didn't have a
keyboard or a monitor, only rows of switches on the front of the box.
The Altair kit sold for $395 when it was new, but one in good
condition today can fetch as much as $1,500 because of the exalted
position it holds in computer history. Widely regarded as the first
mass-market personal computer, it launched a craze when it appeared on
the cover of the January 1975 issue of Popular Electronics. Bill Gates
even dropped out of Harvard to develop an early version of the Basic
programming language for the Altair.
The Altair "established Bill Gates in business," said Gwen Bell,
founder of the Computer Museum, a Boston mecca for computer lovers. "One
of our prize treasures is the original Basic tape that Bill Gates
developed on the Altair."
Collectors tend to pass over some of the most popular early
machines, such as the original IBM PC and the 1984 Apple Macintosh,
because there are just too many of them. Scarcity counts, which helps
explain why the most valuable collectible is the Apple I.
Introduced by Steven Jobs and Stephen Wozniak in 1976, the Apple I
was nothing more than a circuit board. It had no keyboard, no monitor,
not even a case. It sold for $666, and only a few hundred were produced.
A well-preserved Apple I can fetch as much as $12,000 today,
sometimes more. An Apple I signed by Jobs and Wozniak sold for $22,000
at a fund-raiser auction for the Computer Museum several months ago,
Bell said.
That kind of appreciation has attracted the attention of even
non-techie collectors.
"I got a call from an investment advisor for a Wall Street banker,"
Bell said. "He asked: 'Should I get him into collecting old computers?
Will they increase in value more than art?' I said, 'I don't know--I'm
not a dealer.' "
In fact, there aren't any prominent dealers of antique computers, at
least not yet. But a few collectors are hoping to change that, including
David Greelish, founder of the Historical Computer Society in
Jacksonville, Fla.
Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent
years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for
bargains on the Internet. He uses search engines such as Yahoo to root
out online classified ads for Altairs and other vintage machines, and he
keeps an eye on alt.folklore.computers, a newsgroup where history buffs
hang out.
"Ultimately, I would like to see (the Historical Computer Society)
grow and publish magazines and books," he said. "I'd like to start
displaying our collection and even restoring computers for sale."
Greelish and others said would-be collectors should look for
machines that look clean, have all the original equipment and
documentation and still run. A number of guidebooks are available,
including Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by
WorldComm in Asheville, N.C., and "A Collector's Guide to Personal
Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in
Iola, Wis.
Experts urge caution, however. There's no guarantee that old
computers will grow in value, and they are very difficult to maintain.
"If you've never opened up your computer and looked inside, this is
probably not the collectible for you," Bell said.
Instead, experts say, this is a hobby better left to people who were
enthralled by the recent PBS documentary "Triumph of the Nerds," people
who still have a soft spot for monochrome terminals, "Chiclet" keyboards
and the odd shapes of the early machines.
But even among techies, there are plenty of people who scoff at this
new fad, including Kim Nelson, service manager at ACP Superstore in
Santa Ana. Founded 20 years ago, ACP is one of the oldest computer
stores in Southern California, holds swap meets that attract legions of
collectors, and might be one of the region's best unofficial museums.
The store's top shelves are crammed with artifacts of computer history,
although Nelson calls it junk.
"Isn't it amazing that we have computer folklore now," he said,
walking with a reporter along rows of vintage Commodores, Imsais and
Tandys. "That's kind of sad when you think about it. Seems to me there
are things that are a lot more important."
But as he uttered those words, service technician John Krill walked
by and surveyed the line of creaky machines. Almost against his will,
Nelson was sucked into an episode of technology reverie.
"Look at that Kaypro," Krill said. "That company grew so fast they
were warehousing their inventory in tents."
"Weren't they the ones that had the fire too?" asked Nelson, perking
up just a bit and eager to demonstrate his techno-trivia prowess.
The conversation drifted from machine to machine.
"When I was in college, I would just leave my Osborne up in the
library," Krill said with a laugh, recalling the immobility of the first
portable computer. "The damned thing weighed 27 pounds. I didn't want to
lug it around."
Fifteen minutes passed before the two realized that their walk down
memory lane might have strained the attention span of their guest.
"That's enough, John," Nelson finally said with an embarrassed grin.
"You're boring him."
Greg Miller can be reached via e-mail at greg.miller
atimes.com
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC)
Computer Collectibles
Here are some of the PCs attracting the attention of nostalgic
techies:
Model: Apple I
Year introduced: 1976
Original price: $666
Current value: $10,000-$12,000
*
Model: Mark-8
Year introduced: 1974
Original price: $250
Current value: $3,500-$4,000
*
Model: Scelbi 8H
Year introduced: 1973
Original price: $440
Current value: $1,200-$1,500
*
Model: Altair 8800
Year introduced: 1975
Original price: $395
Current value: $1,200-$1,500
*
Model: Imsai 8080
Year introduced: 1975
Original price: $440
Current value: $400-$600
*
Model: Apple II
Year introduced: 1977
Original price: $1,195
Current value: $200-$400
*
Model: Osborne I
Year introduced: 1981
Original price: $1,795
Current value: $200-$300
Descriptions:
Apple I: With no monitor, no keyboard and no case, the Apple I was
little more than a circuit board. Only a few hundred were produced.
Mark-8: A kit computer that was the subject of the first magazine
article describing how to build a computer. The article appeared in
Radio
Electronics Magazine in 1974.
Scelbi: Predated the Altair and was the first computer based on a
microprocessor advertised for sale. Only a small number was made.
Altair 8800: Programmed by switches, the Altair 8800 had no
keyboard,
no monitor and just 256 bytes of memory. But it is widely regarded as
the
first mass-market personal computer. The Altair, based on an Intel
processor, started a craze when it appeared on the cover of Popular
Electronics magazine in January 1975.
Imsai 8080: Modeled on the Altair, the Imsai had several
technological
advances and a more polished look. Had no keyboard or monitor but was
briefly the fastest-selling personal computer.
Apple II: This is the machine that launched the company--and the
personal computer industry. Apple II computers came with a keyboard,
monitor and two disk drives. Most important, they ran VisiCalc, the
original spreadsheet program that was the personal computer's "killer
application."
Osborne I: Considered the first portable computer, even though it
weighed about 30 pounds and was the size of a suitcase. It had a 5-inch
screen, two floppy disk drives and 64K of RAM.
Sources: Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published
by
WorldComm, Asheville, N.C.; David Greelish, president, Historical
Computer
Society, Jacksonville, Fla.; "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers
and
Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis.
AL SCHABEN / Los Angeles Times
> ----------
> From: Alexios Chouchoulas[SMTP:alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk]
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 4:53 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Osborne 1 prices (was: On Generations of People and
> Computers)
>
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
>
> > | Aha! You have a point! Anyone remember the time when
> > Osborne-1s were
> > | supposedly rare and were priced at around $1,000-$10,000? Ha
> > ha. Nice joke.
> >
> > This stems from a California reporter who got confused when talking
> to
> > collectors and printed in the newspaper that an Osborne 1 sold for
> over
> > $10,000. The collectors were actually talking about an Apple I, not
> an
> > Osborne 1 (an easy confusion for a layman to make).
>
> Ok, that would make sense. It seems that this has become some sort
> of
> urban legend, though -- I remember posts in afc like "I have an
> Osborne-1.
> Make me an offer about $5000." :-)
>
>
> --------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o.
> -------------------------------
> Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88'
> alexios(a)vennea.demon.co.uk
> The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo,
> axc(a)dcs.ed.ac.uk
>
| I'm just curious - have any of you (with the possible
exception of the
| apple I) ever seen anyone selling these models at these prices
much less
| purchased one for so much? Do any of these warrant such a
price for
| you? $400 for an Apple II? $300 for an Osborne? I bought an
Apple II+
| with 3 Disk IIs, color monitor, and box of accessories for $50
-
| in 1988!
Well... here are my thoughts:
> > Here are some of the PCs attracting the attention of nostalgic
> > techies:
> >
> > Model: Apple I
> > Current value: $10,000-$12,000
>
Unverified, the only high-dollar example I know of is the Computer Bowl
auction unit. I know someone who actually has two Apple I's, and since
I actually have more than one Altair, I'm trying to talk him into our
becoming about the only two people with one of each. Wish me luck!
> > Model: Mark-8
> > Current value: $3,500-$4,000
>
Highly dubious, since I have never seen, and probably will never see,
one of these for sale. Heck, it wasn't even a genuine production
machine, it was mostly just instructions on how to build one from
scratch. Who knows what it would even look like? Every one was
different. Since most if not all of the period's TTL stuff is still
available, you could build something today and call it a Mark 8.
Most people looking for an Altair would say "A Mark what?"
> > Model: Scelbi 8H
> > Current value: $1,200-$1,500
>
Why this should be lower priced than the Mark-8 considering that it came
out earlier ('73 vs. '74, according to Byte), is beyond me. The same
comment as for the Mark-8 applies. The Mark-8 and Scelbi are sort of
like the guy who almost got credit for inventing the telephone. It's
doubtful that history will ever be rewritten sufficiently for there to
be a significant interest in these machines. Not that _I_ wouldn't buy
one, mind you... not for these dollars of course, but for a goodly sum.
>
> > Model: Altair 8800
> > Current value: $1,200-$1,500
>
This might actually be a bit low, considering the amount of 'Altair
Fever' around today. You should see the number of 'Altair Wanted' posts
on various sections of Usenet. Geez!
Is it worth it? I'd say, sure it is! My dad's '57 fuelie 'Vette is
just as primitive by today's standards, but just like the Altair, it
looks fantastic and it's a piece of history. It darn well deserves its
more-than-a-new-one price tag. Of course, my dad restored it himself,
since he always wanted one when he was a kid... sure sounds like his
son's relationship with antique computers!
>
> > Model: Imsai 8080
> > Current value: $400-$600
>
This is accurate, perhaps a bit low as well. They're pretty rare (one
less in circulation as of this weekend - thanks Tim!)
>
> > Model: Apple II
> > Current value: $200-$400
>
Well, we all know this is a joke. The highest price I've seen for a
plain // is about $60. I'd probably pay $200+ for a pristine one in the
original box with manuals, etc. but I don't think that's what they mean.
Of course, I haven't been able to find a nice one myself, so...
> > Model: Osborne I
> > Current value: $200-$300
>
Tough call. It's reasonably, but certainly not vanishingly, rare (I've
owned three at various times) and I'm sure there are folks in the world
that would pay this, but I generally see them going for around $100, and
more like $15 at swap meets or thrift stores.
Kai
I have an Atari 2600 carthridge question: I bought a couple at a swap
meet that don't "boot" up. When I turn the unit on the screen either is
black or has random vertical color bars on the screen. They are both
Activision games. Any suggestions? I tried opening them but can't
without ruining the label. I guess a working cart is worth more than a
ruined label, but I'm hoping there's a better way if there is some way to
fix them.
Hey, let's have a contest. Let's see who can score the best lot of
classic computers this weekend. We can score each other based on the
type and age of the computers/software/accessories we got, then tally up
the points and whoever has the highest score gets a pat on the back. The
point to such a silly game is that it will promote the preservation of
old computers. It will get us out there finding these lost souls and
keeping them safe for future generations. And believe me, there's
nothing more gratifying then a good weekend out hunting for good old
computers! (Well, there are at least a few things more gratifying :)
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
| Aha! You have a point! Anyone remember the time when
Osborne-1s were
| supposedly rare and were priced at around $1,000-$10,000? Ha
ha. Nice joke.
This stems from a California reporter who got confused when talking to
collectors and printed in the newspaper that an Osborne 1 sold for over
$10,000. The collectors were actually talking about an Apple I, not an
Osborne 1 (an easy confusion for a layman to make). An Apple I sold at
the Computer Bowl charity auction (filled with billionaires) for that
price, but even that doesn't mean that an Apple I is _worth_ $10K, just
that someone made a nice charity donation in connection with one.
Kai
I'm looking for an external scsi disk case, preferably set up for 2
5.25 inch 1/2 height devices. This is to attach to my second(!) apple2gs
with a cdrom and a moderate sized hard disk. I'm told this kind of beast
is common around SUN machines, and I know it's common around Digital
Equipment machines as well. Anyone got an extra box lying around in
their collection that they'd love to sell me?
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
--
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes.
The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction!
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_
> I'm looking for an external scsi disk case, preferably set up for 2
> 5.25 inch 1/2 height devices. This is to attach to my second(!) apple2gs
> with a cdrom and a moderate sized hard disk. I'm told this kind of beast
> is common around SUN machines, and I know it's common around Digital
> Equipment machines as well. Anyone got an extra box lying around in
> their collection that they'd love to sell me?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
A few catalogues sell external SCSI cases in varying sizes. Not the
cheapest things it seems. Sometimes more than PC tower cases.
Anyhind Jameco (800-831-4242) and JDR Microdevices (800-538-5000)
sell them. They all include power supplies.
Marc
--
>> ANIME SENSHI <<
Marc D. Williams
marcw(a)lightside.com (finger at: marcw(a)mail.lightside.com)
marc.williams(a)mb.fidonet.org
=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.2
Last Update: 4/16/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).
If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ has jumped 2 updates because I've been lazy about posting it.
Part 5.4 is new
Sections 6-9 are new.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
About ClassicCmp
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. About the List
-----------------
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
1.3 What's a Classic Computer?
1.4 Who runs this thing?
1.5 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done?
2. Protocol and Etiquette
-------------------------
2.1 What can I talk about?
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames?
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers?
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x?
2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question?
3. Misc List Information
------------------------
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net
----------------------------------
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site?
4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collecting
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers?
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
5.4 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardware and Media
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.1 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?
7. Media
--------
7.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk?
7.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.
7.3 Can these formats be interchanged?
7.4 What disk sizes are there?
7.5 How do I take care of old media?
8. Component Failure Issues
---------------------------
8.1 Do EPROM's go bad?
8.2 How about ROM's, other chips?
8.3 How about capacitors?
8.4 Anything else?
8.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X?
9.2 What's the best way to back up my software?
=============================================================================
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center
on collection (just hoarding), restoration, and operation. It is also an
appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers.
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it
seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.
1.3 What is a Classic Computer?
Any computer that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to
work OK, so I've kept it.
1.4 Who runs this thing?
That would be me, Bill Whitson. I run this thing when I'm not busy being
a network admin at the University of Washington, SCUBA diving, playing
drums in punk rock bands, or drinking heavily. Oh yeah, I'm a 22 year
old, unmarried, childless, white, male living in the state of Washington in
the US. People ask you the strangest things when you run a listproc...
1.5 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.
Damn straight. That's what the internet's all about. OK, guess I have to
update this too - I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a
week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims
a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be
very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm
cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating
lore that's quickly disappearing anyway.
2.1 What can I talk about?
Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many
people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might
want to check facts before you start shooting off messages (if you're easily
embarrassed).
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then be
aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC
newsgroups.
2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames?
There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for
micros only. You'll note I said "misconception".
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course,
use your brain - don't spam.
2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?
Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example,
would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on
usenet who will vouch for this. See section 5 for info on how to find your-
self a computer.
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.
Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't
have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic
electronics tools (DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz
with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking
questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check
the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking
out!" exactly means.
2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?
It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive
section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
Around 230, fluxing daily.
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
Don't bother asking me. If you really want to know go ahead and post
to the list. I really don't know what having a number will do for you...
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site?
Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html
4.2 How come the web site is so ugly?
How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works?
5.1 Where can I find classic computers?
The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are
closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores.
The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary
of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales!
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then,
precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any
more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic
computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple
Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down
the road toward their original selling prices.
5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless
effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly
hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos).
The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you
probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your
wife of the rhino and cuter, furrier animals. It might work.
In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called
"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and
recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and
platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally
just marketed to less wasteful countries.
5.4 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do?
Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done
before that power switch gets flipped.
Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're
looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown
caps and resistors, etc. You can avoid a number of problems just
by taking a peek inside.
If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and
dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs.
Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and
start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been
recommended as a convenient load. These should be available
>from any decent Volkswagen shop. Hopefully this will prevent frying
the rest of the machine with a flaky power supply. You may want to
check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where
near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect
a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from
the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it
may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit
just to get them warmed up.
Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk,
format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your
precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your
day.
6.1 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?
Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try
soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes
care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone
(available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those
don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm.
For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc)
but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully
applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off
textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product
called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US
at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly.
Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good
for removing corrosion. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a
clean cloth after erasing on them though. There are a large number
chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from comp-
onents but I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style
connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive
cleaner do wonders.
Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice
job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you
put any power to them.
7.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk?
We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a
soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector
begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the
formatting process). This means that various computers can use
the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control-
led by the operating system.
Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark
the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers
which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they
specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of
differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16
sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard
sectoring. To my knowledge it was never used with 3.5 inch disks.
7.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.
These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's
density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together).
SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available
type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was
very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were
popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily
modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed
by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage
space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived
Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because
High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity
again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5"
disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high
density.
7.3 Can these formats be interchanged?
Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general
the following substitutions may be made:
Desired Format Substitute
---------------------------------------------------
Single Density Double Density
Double Density none reliably
Quad Density High Density
High Density none
Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in
how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost
be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality
will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong
density.
7.4 What disk sizes are there?
Physically? There are 8 inch, 5.25 inch, and 3.5 inch as "standard"
disks. There are also some unique and/or short-lived sizes such as
3 inch disks used by Amstrad and 2 inch disks which were pioneered
for use in laptops and then quickly forgotten.
7.5 How do I take care of old media?
Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry,
temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer).
With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than
lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks
and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real
evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64
floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large
stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're
not starting to stick up internally.
An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of
classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media
on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup
disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take
care of them.
The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of
approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer.
8.1 Do EPROM's go bad?
Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for
(on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably
reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and
fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're
out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment
and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still
fine for being "re-educated".
8.2 How about ROMs and other chips?
Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been
fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can
be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which
are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The
best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even
unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best
defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify
an existing component to meet your needs.
8.3 How about capacitors?
This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an
unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable
components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the
caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad
with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more
reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that
it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much
more standard electronic components.
8.4 Anything else?
Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its
the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone.
I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because
I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be
obvious and they will be easily duplicated.
Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going
to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible
to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate,
etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base-
ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this.
8.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest?
This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways
seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp-
riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows).
Hi,
While I have the attention of Lisa owners with the other thread I
thought I may make this request...
I have owned a Lisa 2 for a number of years now, but unfortunately it
has a mostly broken power supply unit. Over this time I seem to have got
close to finding spares or schematics more times than I care to
remember, only to be let down at the last minute. (Sorry, sob story
over now.)
It is a complex beast and I don't have the technical know how to fix
the problem, but I do have friends, who are skilled electronic
engineers, who say they can do it with the schematics.
Has anybody got the schematics for a Lisa 2 power supply?
Failing this has anybody got a working spare they are willing to part
with? Or do you know of a cheap source of them?
Many thanks...
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: <URL:http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/>
I remembered a message here about pricing and video games yesterday.
Someone had an Atari 2600 (the new, revamped, black type) at the car boot
sale in Edinburgh yesterday.
He explained to me that this was a "games computer" with around 8 carts
(<sarcasm>lemmesee, Pacman, Ms. Pacman, Pole Position, etc. -- ooh,
rare</sarcasm>). The price: 20.00 UKP (around $30?). Surely, these people
are joking. I didn't even want to haggle for a new VCS.
Now, if it was the *OLD* type, I might have been interested (I don't
normally collect this stuff, but the old VCS has sentimental value -- I
played my first game of Space Invaders on one).
Unfortunately, at another flea market, another time and another country
(and anyway, the wench is dead), an original VCS was going for around $100,
with extremely common carts selling for as much as $25. Amazing. Almost as
expensive as the thing when it first came out. :-)
My theory for this is that game machines haven't changed all that much in
the last 20 years: still a box, still take carts (or CD-ROMs nowadays),
still have joysticks. What the heck, it must be worth something, right?
Whereas computers have changed so dramatically that your average car boot
sale joe will sell an old `computer keyboard' (probably a ZX-80) for
peanuts since it doesn't appear to have a monitor or a CD-ROM or Winblows
installed.
--------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. -------------------------------
Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios(a)vennea.demon.co.uk
The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc(a)dcs.ed.ac.uk
Whilst in a self-induced trance, Sam Ismail happened to blather:
>I think this would be a fun thing to do still. If anyone else is
>interested, speak up, or write to me directly via e-mail. Then we don't
>have to bother anyone else in the discussion with our silly little game.
>We could pick a date (a weekend) and then assign some sparse rules and
>then do it. It would be fun. Contact me if interested.
Actually, I think this would be a fun "silly little game" except in my case
the time frame needs to be improved *greatly*. Where I live, garage sales
haven't even started yet! (Why, you may ask... for some reason, people
don't want to set their "prized possesions" out in 2' of snow!)
What would be fun for me is if the contest ran for a month, or even the
whole summer... then those of use in the "boonies" might have a chance...
'cause for now, you win. Tough to enter a contest when they don't offer it
in your area!
Also, if it was over a month's span, then I might even be able to take a
road trip to a larger (read: civilized) area to do some scrounging... and
mebbe hit some thrift stores, as well.
How's this sound, folks?
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
> ----------
> From: Alexios Chouchoulas[SMTP:alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk]
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 5:44 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Collecting (was: On Generations of People and
> Computers)
>
| If mainstream Microsoft
| droids start collecting, we'll have to rescue old hardware
>from THEIR
| filthy claws as well.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Attention:
> [ ] Clueless Newbie [ ] Lamer [ ] AOLer
> [ ] Me-too-er [ ] Pervert [ ] Geek
> [ ] Spammer [ ] Grade School Dropout [ ] Nerd
> [ ] Fed [ ] Freak [ ]
> Scientologist
> [ ] Fool [ ] Jesus Krispy [ ] Anonymous
> Coward
> [ ] Rush Limbecile [X] Paranoid MS-Hater [ ] Ex-AOLer
>
> You are being contacted because:
> [ ] You said "me too" to something
> [ ] You posted a phone-sex ad
> [ ] You posted a local message in an international conference
> [ ] You posted a "test" in a newsgroup other than alt.test
> [ ] You started an off-topic thread
> [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
> [ ] You brag about things that never happened
> [X] You posted a "Microsoft is out to get us" message
> [ ] Your sig/alias/server sucks
> [ ] Your writing skills do not even meet the low standards of Usenet
> [ ] You posted a jail-bait message
> [ ] You asked a ridiculous question
> [ ] You posted a con/scam/pyramid scheme message
> [ ] Your lack of a quote made your response incoherent
> [ ] You posted to more than four newsgroups
> [ ] You were imposing your religious beliefs on others
> [ ] You posted something really stupid/depraved
> [ ] You tried to blame others for your stupidity
> [X] You incorrectly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual
> superiority
>
> To Repent, You Must:
> [ ] Invest in a dictionary/spell-checker
> [ ] Learn to correctly use your software/provider/bulletin board
> [ ] Give up your AOL account
> [ ] Try faking an interesting personality
> [ ] Pretend you are Trent Reznor
> [ ] Actually post something relevant
> [X] Shave your head
> [ ] Read the docs/FAQ
> [ ] Post your tests to alt.test
> [X] Limit yourself to 2 hours of WWF Wrestling per day
> [ ] Print your home phone number in your adverts
> [ ] Become a Satanist, sell your kids to Michael Jackson
> [ ] Send Bill Gates a love letter
>
> In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
> [ ] You're an idiot
> [ ] Bite me
> [X] Get a life
> [ ] Never post again
> [ ] I pity your dog
> [ ] Go to hell
> [ ] Your mother's so fat/stupid/ugly that etc...
> [ ] Learn to post or sod off
> [ ] Do us all a favor and crawl into some industrial machinery
> [ ] See how far your tongue will fit into the electric outlet
> [ ] All of the above
>
> end flame.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
I was just reading the FAQ and thought that I should add my two cents.
6.1 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?
Paper items:
About a year ago, I found an Osborne Starter Kit in a thrift store.
This is a ring bound manual and some audio cassettes to get a new
user started, packaged in a flat cardboard box, the kind with a glossy
surface. Well the box had been wrapped many times with that inch and a
half clear packaging tape to prevent it from being opened. I knew that
if I tried to remove the tape that I would remove most of the surface
of the box too.
Then I had an idea. I removed the manual and the tapes from the box
by cutting the tape around the edge of the box. And then I put the box
in the freezer for a few hours until it was nice and cold. I still had
to be careful removing the tape but the tape didn't stick to the box
as well as it did when it was warm. And it didn't leave any glue behind.
The one that I havn't licked yet is how to remove crayon price marking
from a paper diskette label or a book page without it smearing or bleeding
into the paper.
7.4 What disk sizes are there?
A floppy diskette is 8" in width.
A mini floppy diskette is 5.25" in width.
A micro floppy diskette is 3.5" in width.
And computers like the Amstrad CPC6128 and the Sinclair ZX Spectrum+3 use
a compact floppy diskette which is 3.15" or 8 cm in width.
I also have diskettes made by Nintendo (the word Nintendo is embossed
in the plastic) for the Nintendo Family Computer. I don't know what
they're called and I haven't measured one yet, but as I remember they
are just a little smaller than a micro floppy.
----------------------------------
My computer collection up on the web still needs a lot of work, but
I'm looking for suggestions about:
- the way it's laid out
- are the pictures too big to download quickly
- is there incorrect information
If you can help me out, my collection is located at
www.best.com/~dcoward/museum Thanks
----------------------------------
>>Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of
>>this range?
I'm 210 years old in computer years.
=======================================================
dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Doug Coward
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale CA
=======================================================
At 10:10 PM 4/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 97-04-14 22:27:40 EDT, you write:
>>
>>> > >Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of=20
>>> > >this range?
>>> >
>>I'm seriously outside of =20. more like =20 +25(next week).
>>
>>Lou
>
>Just a young man are you.
>
>Last week I turned 53.
>
> -Ron Mitchell
>
I turned seventy two about a month age!
Charlie Fox
Does anyone out there know much about the old PET 2001 machines?
I received a PET a couple of years ago, in which all of the 6550 SRAMs
were fried. I replaced them with the chips from another PET 2001 (one
with the miniature keyboard, from 1977) and the system worked fine.
Does anyone know how all of the memory chips could've been killed?
I tried them in various patterns in the sockets, and it does seem as if
all 16 of them are fried.
Anyway, is it still possible to get 6550s anywhere? And if not, is there
a replacement that could be used?
Even better: Can I simply replace the 6550s with another type of chip and
get more RAM in the system? Most of my software works in 8K, but I do
have some music files that require more. (I have one of those external
music boards that plugs into the cassette2 and user ports, that delivers
four voices.)
Now, another question. With that same PET, came an expansion board of
some kind. Its like a daughterboard, physically mounted on posts above
the motherboard, but connected via the memory expansion connector on the
side.
It appears (yes) to be a memory board, with 16 RAM chips on it. At least,
they look like they could be RAM chips, judging by the traces on the
board. However, I've never seen RAM chips with gold contacts and gold
plates on their backs before, as six of these chips have, so I'm wondering
if this could be more than just a memory board.
The board is dead, BTW. The PET won't operate with the board plugged in.
It just comes up with a screenful of garbage characters.
The board plugs directly into the PETs power supply, and then a cable
leads from it to the PET motherboard's power connector. There are three
large 470uF capacitors and two things that I guess are voltage regulators
(I don't know much about electronics :) ), so I'm guessing that this board
has its own refresh circuitry on it and it uses DRAM, but that could be
totally wrong. :)
Both connectors on the cable that leads from the expansion board to the
motherboard are noticeably burnt. In both cases, the burn marks surround
the pin that connects to the black wire.
The only identifying mark on the board is the text:
R 3014
rev.
C
COPYRIGHT 1978 R.C.Factor
Does anyone have any better guesses than me as to its function? (Can the
edge connector on the side of the PET be used for anything other than RAM
expansion?)
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
Whilst in a self-induced trance, dcoward happened to blather:
> I was just reading the FAQ and thought that I should add my two cents.
And I was just reading this post, and can add some wisdom as well...
>7.4 What disk sizes are there?
>
> A floppy diskette is 8" in width.
> A mini floppy diskette is 5.25" in width.
> A micro floppy diskette is 3.5" in width.
The *first* micro floppy was 3" in width. Yes, you heard me correctly.
Amdek designed and built a SSDD 3" floppy drive around 1983-84 (or so...
I'll have to look) that used it's own style of media (and it was flippy,
unlike the 3.5" of today) and they interfaced it to and marketed it for two
computers that I know of:
The Radio Shack (Tandy) Color Computer, and
The Atari 800.
So far I've seen 2 Atari units for sale on the forsale newsgroups in the
last 9 months or so, and altho I've never seen the CoCo version (on sale or
anything) I have a color magazine ad advertising the system that I could
scan in if I ever find the time...
================
Also, in the grand naming scheme above, just *what* would you call a 2"
floppy? Yessireebob, a 2" floppy! I *own* one of these drives... they were
used in the Zenith MiniSport 8088-based IBM/clone laptop. Cute little
rascals... someday I'll take a pic or two and scan 'em in...
Specs: 2" floppy, 80 Track, DSDD 720K formatted storage capacity.
(I don't know the TPI or anything... may look into that if possible...)
I hope this helps to enlighten folks just a little bit more...
Have a Golfy Day!
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
To fill a gap in the Heathkit section of my collection:
Heath (H10?) Paper Tape Reader/Punch unit.
Any out there???
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>WOW 1's and O's - you where lucky! I had to use l's and O's.
>Of course I cheated and wrote out all my code long hand - that was when
>I was back in Egypt. I am sure you've seen some of my code 8-)
>
You had 1's AND 0's? Back in my day, we only had 0's, and we liked it. I
tried to get my parents to buy me some 1's, but they were just too much.
Actually, I am 28, and learned to program in basic. I am just now taking
the time to learn assembler on my atari 800. I have wanted to learn for the
last 14 years, but I think that some of the latter experience that I have
gotten has made it to where I think I can tackle assembly language. In the
"old fart" category, I just helped my next door neighbor get his first
computer, a classic of course, and he is in his early 60's. He's pretty
excited, and so am I.
While we are on the subject of disks, I got a bag of 5 1/4" disks from a
friend, and they are mostly DSHD. I have been able to format most of them,
but there are a select few that my Atari SSSD drive will not format. Do you
think that I could format them with a different machine, or pass them under
a magnet and get them to where my atari could format them? I hate to throw
them away, and I'm not that technical when it comes to magnetic properties
and such.
Isaac Davis
idavis(a)comland.com
indavis(a)juno.com
Well, the weekend has just started, and I've made yet another haul of
program tapes for the Timex-Sinclair, this time mostly business applications.
This brings the total number of original T/S-1000 and ZX-81 tapes to 12, with
a total of 20 original tapes of all types! Some of them will run on the 2k
machine, while most require the 16k expansion.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, 800XL, and Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128,
C128D, Plus/4 and VIC-20, IBM 5155, Kaypro 2X, Osbourne Executive
Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000,
TRS-80 Color Computer-3 and Model 4, plus Atari Superpong and
2600VCS game consoles.
| What - you had an assembler? I have to toggle in ones and
| zeroes. Before that we didn't even have zeroes and I had
| to use the letter 'O'.
Y'know, that's not far from the truth. I was looking at some of my old
Teletype listings the other day and realized it had a line through the O
instead of through the 0, therefore it really did look like we were
using O's for zeroes!
| Tim. (selling his last of seven IMSAI's to a museum next week...)
Whew, I guess I just got under the wire there! See ya Sunday...
Kai
Just browsing through the newsgroup, and if anyone lives in or around
Cambridge, MA. Here's a good deal for the weekend. Hope this helps
someone. I really wished I lived there. I wonder if I could drive there
>from Austin, TX and make it in time. Oh well, maybe next time.
========================================================
Subject: Atari 800 System/Software Giveaway at MIT
From: remler(a)ll.mit.edu (Rick Ferranti)
Date: 1997/04/18
Message-Id: <remler-1804970826170001(a)macferranti.atc.ll.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
I have a complete Atari 800 system -- the 800 with 48K RAM, 810 disk
drive, 1020 printer/plotter, P:R: Connection serial interface, joysticks,
paddle controllers, cables, power supplies, and all original
documentation. With this system comes many business programs and zillions
of games, many still in their original boxes with documentation. Plus
many indexed reference articles from the old 8-bit Atari magazines. The
system is in excellent, working condition.
I'm "selling" the package at the MIT Radio/Computer flea market on Sunday,
April 20th, corner of Albany and Main Streets in Cambridge, MA. Doors
open at 9:OO a.m. If you can tell me a good story on what you'd use this
thing for, it's yours for the taking! Look for a beige '92 Camry.
-- Rick
========================================================
With the diversity of people in this maillist, a good story should be pretty
easy to come by. If anyone gets it, be sure and let us know "the story".
Isaac Davis
idavis(a)comland.com
indavis(a)juno.com
On 22-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>I'll take the 1000. I have a 68000 chip sitting around from my old Amiga and
>the drives are pretty easy to find. If it's still available let me know what
>the shipping is.
Lou,
Just email me your address, and I'll figure out what the postage will be.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, 800XL, and Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128,
C128D, Plus/4 and VIC-20, IBM 5155, Kaypro 2X, Osbourne Executive
Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000,
TRS-80 Color Computer-3 and Model 4, plus Atari Superpong and
2600VCS game consoles.
| - Has the copy protection on original system disks and program
disks ever
| been cracked? (for those that don't know, the first time an
original
| disk is used in a Lisa, it apparantly stamps the disk with its
serial
| number, preventing other Lisae from using it).
You need to find someone with an un-installed set of Lisa diskettes and
copy them with an Option Board.
Kai
At 10:18 PM 4/17/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> While we are on the subject of disks, I got a bag of 5 1/4" disks from a
>> friend, and they are mostly DSHD. I have been able to format most of them,
>> but there are a select few that my Atari SSSD drive will not format.
>
>Yeah, well, I wouldn't trust the HD ones you did manage to format.
>It just isn't worth the risk when double-density floppies are
>still readily available.
>
>Are people finding it hard to get double-density floppies? I have
>access to several thousand new-sealed-in-boxes up here. If you've
>been unable to find any, let me know and I'll ship ship out some
>boxes.
>
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
>
>
I will try to find some locally. I definitely don't need more than a couple
hundred, if that many. I have some old work of mine that I would hate to
loose. I have had these disks since the early 80's, and they all seem to be
in perfect condition, but you never know when they will go bad.
Anyone have any suggestions, of places to go to get boxed SD or DD floppies
in bulk? I will start looking around, and if I find a place, I will post it.
Thanks for the advice about the HD floppies being different than DD or SD.
I will definitely reserve those for scratch disks. That was exactly the
answer I was looking for. Thanks for the help.
Isaac Davis
idavis(a)comland.com
indavis(a)juno.com
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:02:43 -0800, Mr Shoppa graced us with
these words of wisdom:
> What - you had an assembler? I have to toggle in ones and
> zeroes. Before that we didn't even have zeroes and I had
> to use the letter 'O'.
Ah, good lad! I understand that in some parts of the world the use
of the numeral "0" (zero) is still regarded as heresy. You may have
saved your life that way.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:23:30 -0400, this arrived on the list from
the esteemed Mr. Allen Underdown:
> In the olden days of magnetic floppy media, there was a sector hole
> FOR EVERY SECTOR located around the hub of the floppy.
All very well and good, but there's that one extra you forgot
about. ;-)
Yes, hard-sectored disks _do_ have a hole to denote the beginning
of each sector, but to indicate the beginning of a _track_ they use
two adjacent holes. In soft-sectored disks, the single hole serves
to signal the beginning-of-track; the individual sectors are defined
via headers recorded during the format operation.
> God I love reading this list!
With all due respects to Mr. Mel Brooks: "Ditto!"
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Here are a few extra things I need to part with to make space:
1) TI-99/4A, silver/black, with power supply. No RF modulator. works
great....$15 + shipping
2) Amiga 1000, main unit only..no keyboard. Bad floppy and missing the cover
which goes over the RAM expansion on the front of the unit. Also is missing
the 68000 CPU. This system is said to have worked ok, but I bought it for
it's keyboard and it is just sitting here. I really hate to trash it, so
anyone who is interested can have it for the cost of the shipping. An
interesting thing about it is that it, like all A1000's, has the underside of
the upper casing 'signed' by all it's designers, including Jay Miner.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, 800XL, and Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128,
C128D, Plus/4 and VIC-20, IBM 5155, Kaypro 2X, Osbourne Executive
Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000,
TRS-80 Color Computer-3 and Model 4, plus Atari Superpong and
2600VCS game consoles.
On 20-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>Interestingly enough, the article also mentions advances
>in "vertical recording techniques." One of the companies
>listed was supposed to be introducing a 5 1/4" disk that
>could hold approximately 6.5 megs of data. Anything
>ever come of this?
Supra sold a 5-1/4" floppy drive for the Atari ST that would hold 10meg on
a disk, though the drive used a laser to track the head position, and the
disks were special and had special markings on them to allow the laser to
track where it was on the disk. I had one of these drives at one point, but
could never locate any disks for it.
Jeff Jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, 800XL, and Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128,
C128D, Plus/4 and VIC-20, IBM 5155, Kaypro 2X, Osbourne Executive
Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000,
TRS-80 Color Computer-3 and Model 4, plus Atari Superpong and
2600VCS game consoles.
In a message dated 97-04-14 22:27:40 EDT, you write:
> > >Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of=20
> > >this range?
> >
I'm seriously outside of =20. more like =20 +25(next week).
Lou
> I have a box (about 250-300) of hard-sector 5=BC"
> disks. Anyone interested??? Sell/trade/???
What are "hard-sector" disks? Not the same as a 5.25 floppy?
mhop(a)snip.net
At 20:51 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> I have a box (about 250-300) of hard-sector 5=BC"
>> disks. Anyone interested??? Sell/trade/???
>
>What are "hard-sector" disks? Not the same as a 5.25 floppy?
> mhop(a)snip.net
>
>
hard sewctore means that there are 13? holde in the disk for the drive led
to read to determine where a sector starts. A soft sectore disk hs one hle
(like the IBM type disks used today. A popular user of hard sector disks
was NorthStar Computers.
John
*****************************
John R. Sowden
*****************************
*American Sentry Systems, Inc. *
* 1221 Andersen Drive *
* San Rafael, CA 94901 *
* Voice (415) 457-2622 *
* FAX (415)457-2624 *
* amsentry(a)microweb.com *
*****************************
>>Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of
>>this range?
Seriously?
Your regular poster, Larry Anderson, was originally looked upon with
suspician because he had an Amiga in addition to his C=64's and PET's.
Time proved his sincere appreciation of classic models. HE's in his
30's, my age can't be taken seriously.
Diane Hare/MS.HARE San Andreas, CA snotmyfault
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare
Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
I have a box (about 250-300) of hard-sector 5?"
disks. Anyone interested??? Sell/trade/???
_______________
Barry Peterson bm_pete(a)ix.netcom.com
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan at 10:23 a.m. on April 13th!!!
(7lbs. 2oz., 19", lots of dark hair, and HEALTHY!)
I recently came across a picture of a Atari Microbox on a Classic Computing
homepage and was wondering if anyone was lucky to come across any of the
prototypes in their travels. Any info would be appreciated,
Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Vincent davidv(a)ganymede.cs.mun.ca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I first broached the idea of making my palmtop talk to a PC JR keyboard,
someone on this list mentioned they knew where to find the keyboard codes the
Peanut keyboard generates. Since I've had no luck finding this data in web
searches, could that someone please let me know where to find this info?
-Jim
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
--
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes.
The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction!
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_
On 14-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>When I first broached the idea of making my palmtop talk to a PC JR keyboard,
>someone on this list mentioned they knew where to find the keyboard codes the
>Peanut keyboard generates. Since I've had no luck finding this data in web
>searches, could that someone please let me know where to find this info?
Jim,
What are you referring to as a 'peanut' keyboard? The only PC Jr. keyboard
I've seen in use, and I have one here though no PC Jr., is the one that has
the two IR leds on the rear, an RJ-11 type jack, and a space for 4 'AA'
batteries. How many different keyboard types were there for the Jr.?
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, IBM 5155,
Kayro 2X, Osbourne Executive, Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81,
TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a
TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari Superpong and 2600VCS game consoles.
> When I first broached the idea of making my palmtop talk to a PC JR keyboard,
> someone on this list mentioned they knew where to find the keyboard codes the
> Peanut keyboard generates. Since I've had no luck finding this data in web
> searches, could that someone please let me know where to find this info?
>
> -Jim
> --
I've got a program that comes with NCSA Telnet called SCANCHEK
so one can check the scan codes of their keyboard.
I've had to use it a few times to get some programs to recognize
my Tandy 1000's F11 & F12 keys which are different from IBM's.
If you don't find the info I can send it to you or you can download
all of NCSA Telnet from SimTel.
Marc
--
>> ANIME SENSHI <<
Marc D. Williams
marcw(a)lightside.com (finger at: marcw(a)mail.lightside.com)
marc.williams(a)mb.fidonet.org
On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:58:15 +0100, Kevan is rumoured to have said:
> [On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:24:34, PEC wrote:]
> > Is this a generational thing? My first computer exposure what to a
> > mainframe in the late 70's, but my first computer was an 80's micro.
> > Are people in the 40+ age group more likely to have fond memories
> > of minis?
>
> I think there will be a strong corrolation here.
Oh come on, guys. I'm not _that_ old :-) (36).
One of the reasons that I cherish the minicomputer architectures is,
admittedly, nostalgia, but the other reasons include the fact that
they're very servicable (frequently with off-the-shelf components) and
they provide a wonder tactile sense of the essence of computing. Few
things compare to hand-assembling programs, entering them in binary
via a front panel, and having them work. Also, the average minicomputer
is simple enough to understand its' inner workings at a gate level;
this makes minis admirable teaching tools.
> I started my computing on my older brothers ZX80, I was 13 at the
> time. Thus I was brought up on the home computer boom of the early
> eighties.
I was a bit of a "late bloomer" when it comes to computing. I was
always interested in the machines, all the way from early childhood,
and was lucky enough to have relatives with contacts at MIT and
Harvard. I got to see some wonderful stuff then (even played Space-
war on Harvard's PDP-1!) but never got to do any programming until
my second year of secondary school in the late '70s. The first
machine I programmed on was the Nova 840 I have in my collection
now. The machine I "cut teeth" on in a hardware sense was an Inter-
data Model 3, in my third year of ss.
Although I bought a VIC-20 (for the princely sum of (US)$300) in
1980 (?), I never really "took to" the micro- architectures (it
might also have been that they were so _slow_ compared to the PDP-
10s I was working on at the time). I think I still have the VIC
around someplace.
Cheers.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
> >Is everyone else in their 20's and 30's? Anyone seriously outside of=20
> >this range?
> >
> >--pec
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> >
> I'm outside that range, and I am serious!
> _______________
>
> Barry Peterson bm_pete(a)ix.netcom.com
> Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
> Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan at 10:23 a.m. on April 13th!!!
> (7lbs. 2oz., 19", lots of dark hair, and HEALTHY!)
I've been watching that .sig for a while now. Congratulations!
On topic: Well, I'm outside of that range too, but on the other end.
--
Ben Coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
530 User anonymous access denied.
http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley/classic for my classic game page!
Well, today was a rather good day out at the swap meet, my first
excursion in a couple years.
It started out slow. The first thing I found was one lowly Atari 2600
PacMan cart sitting amidst some guy's junk. For some reason I thought I
would buy it (?) thinking maybe I didn't already have PacMan (whatever)
and it went like this:
Me: How about a quarter?
Him: 1 dollar.
Me: A quarter?
Him: 1 dollar.
Me: How about 50 cents?
Him: ok.
Anyway, it got way better. Walking along I found a beautiful little
TimexSinclair 1000! At least I'm am darned sure it is, because the label
is missing on the top but the bottom has a stamp which has
"CEC8E4TS1000R1" in it. There is also a sticker with a serial number and
"Model M330" on it. Anyway, I've never actually seen one, but have been
looking for one for years! And finally its mine! MINE! Haven't tested
it yet but I'm sure it works. Its in good condition. Could someone who
has one describe theirs so I can figure out exactly what I have? I know
there were different varieties of the TS1000. Mine has an Ear and Mic
jack on the side. What the hell are those for? Oh, duh, just figured it
out...data recorder. Never mind. You know how hard it is to find a 9V
DC power source with a 1/8" headphone jack? I looked all over the meet
for one, finally found one but the seller wanted three bucks for it so I
passed. I can't encourage that kind of larceny :)
So continuing on I found some more Atari 2600 carts I didn't have, and
then I found an original IBM PC/XT. The guy wanted $50 but I promptly
talked him down to $7. What a steal. Haven't tested it yet but it
"looks" like it will work :) Now I want the Original IBM PC and a PC
Jr. The funny thing is, I paid more for 9 Atari 2600 games ($11 in one
case) than an entire PC.
So moving forward, I found someone selling a Macintosh 512K. Cool, I'd
been wanting to add a classic Mac to my collection for some time. But
this one was missing the keyboard and mouse. They only wanted $20 for
it. I tried talking them down but they didn't want to move. Later I
found someone selling a complete Mac+. Now this one I know was hot. At
first they wanted $50 but I talked them down to $15 (I used the "It's all
the money I have right now" ruse, except in this case it was true). I
really wanted to get the other Mac, because it was closer to the original
Macintosh, but this one was more complete, so I got it instead.
Now, I don't want to disparage the fine folks of Oakland, California, but
as I said before, I'm most positive this system was hot. They were too
willing to dump off a perfectly good Macintosh (at least I think its
perfectly good, haven't tested it yet) for too little money. Later on
when I was going through the software I got with it I found some BMUG
disks (BMUG = BayArea Macintosh User's Group). So I'll be contacting BMUG
to see if any of their members "lost" a macintosh within the last couple
months, and if I find a match I'll sell it back to them for what I paid.
(I'm such a nice guy, eh!?)
Throughout the day I saw a LOT of Nintendo consoles, carthridges and
accessories (not classic enough yet). I'm sure in 5-10 years when I
inevitably start collecting Nintendo crap I'll be wishing I had picked up a
lot of this stuff. Oh well, maybe when I have enough money to buy all
the truly classic stuff I want and THEN some cash left over for the common
tripe, I'll start collecting nintendo.
So anyway, at the end of the day I ended up with an IBM PC/XT (original),
a MacintoshPlus, a TimexSinclair 1000 (yeah!) and about 25 more atari
2600 carts, plus an intellivision cart and a TI/994a cart.
Total bill: $45.
Not bad. And I'm still under my budget of $100 per month for classic
computer collecting (I just implemented that budget, but I think it may
be too high. I tend to get carried away when collecting old computer
stuff and, if left unchecked, would buy everything I came across. As it
is I just may go back for that Mac512K.) Now I just need to keep my new
booty hidden from my fiance.
If I can offer any tip to would-be flea market bargain hunters: haggle.
Start way low and work up. Some people don't even know what they're
selling, and think just because it's a computer (computer = high tech) it
must be worth big bucks. You have to slap them around a bit until they
come to their senses. No common system console (ie. Vic20s, Atari 2600s,
etc) should go for more than $10 ($15 at the VERY most). No game
carthridge should go for more than $.50 (IMO, unless you REALLY want it,
then NO more than $2.00 each).
What do you all think?
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
On 13-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>The PSU is very similar electrically (although I think it's 114W, not
>135W, or something). Mechanically it's very different.
That's certainly not much to be running everything including the monitor
off of. One would think that with the addition of that CRT that they'd have
upped the power a little.
>It's worth doing - 41256's are trivial to obtain (off old 286 memory
>boards if nothing else!), and it takes about 5 minutes. I did it to my
>portable the day I got it...
What about the other chip you said needed to be put in...how hard is it to
locate? It doesn't sound like the process would be terribly hard.
>No idea, I'm afraid. Does CP/M 86 run on an XT? (I beleive a few things
>wouldn't) - the portable is really an XT (and not a PC) system.
I've since learned that no, CP/M-86 will not run on an XT! Which is too
bad considering I have the full packages of both it and Concurrent CP/M
sitting here and the 5155 is the only machine that's even close to what's
needed to use it. Oh well!
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, IBM 5155,
Kayro 2X, Osbourne Executive, Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81,
TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a
TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari Superpong and 2600VCS game consoles.
On 11-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>In case you've not spotted it, most of that machine is built from standard
>IBM parts.
Yes, I had noticed that it appeared to be made out of standard looking
parts, though the PSU was different than the XT's, as I have an extra XT PSU
here I was keeping around just in case I ever had a project, such as external
drives or such, that needed one. I had forgotten how much the very early XT
keyboards left to be desired though!
>If you want 640K without wasting a slot, here's what to do :
Thanks for the info on the MOD! It likely won't be done anytime soon, but
it's a good thing to know about. About the only thing I plan on doing right
away is adding a serial port to it.
Since you seem rather knowledgable of the system, do you know why it won't
boot into CP/M-86 ver 1.1, but continues into the BASIC ROM after it checks
the drive?
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
Hi all.
I'm pleased to report that the Xerox 16/8 system I offered for adoption
here, has started its lengthy journey to it's new home in North Carolina,
and the Kaypro Service manual is on its way to Oregon.
Now its my turn to ask for help.
Some time ago, at our local Thrift store, I bought two Hewlett-Packard HP125
Display units. They contain the monitor and CPU for these CP/M units and I
have a good collection of suitable peripheral drive units.
I only paid $2:50 each for the Display units. And they seem to work OK but I
really can't be sure until I get keyboards.
I also have a set of boot disks for them.
But I have no keyboards.
I understand the same keyboard was used with the H-P 26xx series of Terminals.
Does anyone have one or two suitable keyboards they'd be willing to sell to me?
My e-mail address is listed below.
Thanks and cheers,
David Cobley.
Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech
and Hewlett-Packard Echoes.
Internet-dcobley(a)island.net, or,
davidc(a)macn.bc.ca
On 14-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
> The "Chicklet" style keyboard (my friend had a PCjr with one) are very
>rare, as IBM quickly realized its mistake in actually making that type of
>keyboard (and was one of the worse keyboards (for touch typists) ever made
>by IBM) and came out with the new style keyboards.
Thanks for the info. The one I have appears to be the 'chicklet' one. Now
I just have to get a PCjr to go along with it!
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, IBM 5155,
Kayro 2X, Osbourne Executive, Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81,
TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a
TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari Superpong and 2600VCS game consoles.
Sam,
The transformer with my TS-1000 shows an input (to the computer) of 9.75V
DC. Both my TS-1000 and Sinclair ZX-81 seem to be picky about TV's and the
shielding of the cable. As for identifying marks, from your previous post,
the only thing my TS-1000 has on it is the FCC ID# CEC8E4TS1000R1. Otherwise,
there's no mention of the number you mentioned...just the sticker on the top
'Timex-Sinclair 1000'. The box and such doesn't give any indications to other
identifiers either.
Hope this is of some help.
Jeff Jeffh(a)eleventh.com
P.S. the Aquarius went out to you today UPS
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, IBM 5155,
Kayro 2X, Osbourne Executive, Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81,
TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a
TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari Superpong and 2600VCS game consoles.